Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

914

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Why are we the only county that has problems with players like this. KK, Tipp, Cork etc players will always die with their boots on in games and if they are seen to be not trying they are never seen in a county jersey again. Even the Cork strikes in the 00's their players never gave less than 100% on the field.

s

Really the Tipp boys didn't plan for their manager last year, now sheedy comes back in and they are flying it.

I agree when our lads go down they go down bad but all counties have this with players now.

lim4ev

Motivator wrote: »

I wasn’t saying to have a dig at Limerick fans, they were laughing at what they were seeing and I can’t blame them. From one of the big counties to put in a performance like that it was shameful. Limerick are the All Ireland champions, they were coming off the back of a poor performance against Cork. These used to be the type of games that Waterford relished - fans and players alike. Yesterday it looked like the players and management would rather have been anywhere else but Walsh Park.

God be with the days of the flags, bunting, air horns and excitement that surrounded Waterford in the summer. We didn’t realise how good we had it from 1998 to 2007. Those were the glory days for Waterford and their supporters. Since 2007 we’ve had about 3 good days out with the county and it’s actually depressing to see how we’ve ended up. Looking back we were probably lucky to reach the final in 2017 and Jesus with a bit of luck we could have nicked it from Galway. Since 5 o clock that day in 2017 it’s gone from bad to worse for us.

I know you weren't having a dig I was saying what I said cos I know what it feels like to get a beating like that for us it was 2009 v tipp in croker plus cork kk and tipp themselves have got heavy beatings in last few yrs so it is recoverable if the proper structures are put in place. I'm not going to belittle what happened yesterday as it was bad but there's always hope I genuinely thought I'd never see limerick winning the all ireland but we did so can Waterford in the future not easy but can be done

Stacksofwacks

914 wrote: »

Really the Tipp boys didn't plan for their manager last year, now sheedy comes back in and they are flying it.

I agree when our lads go down they go down bad but all counties have this with players now.

They may have stopped playing for their manager but they still drew 2 games and lost the others only by a few points. They came from 11 points down to draw with us

JeffKenna

Motivator wrote: »

Whatever is going on is shameful and if it’s a case of the players downing tools then and not trying for whatever reasons then I feel sorry for them. In 5, 10 or 20 years time if they’ve no medals in their pockets I wonder will they look back on this year and think “we did the right thing in 2019. We wasted a year of our careers but we proved a point”.

You know if they wanted to waste a year of their career then so be it. The really shameful thing is they decided to take the lads who played with pride with them.

_blaaz

914 wrote: »

Really the Tipp boys didn't plan for their manager last year, now sheedy comes back in and they are flying it.

I agree when our lads go down they go down bad but all counties have this with players now.

What other county gives up after 20 mins and only 2pts in it??



Its a joke excusing this behaviour.....no matter how bad the all ireland of 08 defeat was....noone carried on like what went on yesterday in walsh park


Nicky quaid came out and even said he felt embarassed for us

Stacksofwacks

_blaaz wrote: »

What other county gives up after 20 mins and only 2pts in it??



Its a joke excusing this behaviour.....no matter how bad the all ireland of 08 defeat was....noone carried on like what went on yesterday in walsh park


Nicky quaid came out and even said he felt embarassed for us

We were caught cold in '08. The players were spooked either by the occasion or Kilkenny's aggression or both. But some of them did give up, more or less

Jayesdiem

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Why are we the only county that has problems with players like this. KK, Tipp, Cork etc players will always die with their boots on in games and if they are seen to be not trying they are never seen in a county jersey again. Even the Cork strikes in the 00's their players never gave less than 100% on the field.

But sure ya bring back Derek, let him doing his mollycoddling, iron their socks, give them a bit pocket money for a few pints

Apparently when Michael Collins came to Waterford looking for support for the uprising he was thought to have left the message to visitors to the city: “tread carefully, you might wake Waterford”. That lack of internal drive seems to exist even today. It’s a forlorn city right now. I mean the “recession” is five years ago but you wouldn’t know it in Waterford. It’s something in the general psyche.

sitkaspruce

JeffKenna wrote: »

You know if they wanted to waste a year of their career then so be it. The really shameful thing is they decided to take the lads who played with pride with them.

And us the fans who have wasted the last few weekends following a group of mercenaries who couldnt give a sh1t.

For Derek's sake I hope he doesn't come back, yes we had some of our best days under him and he gave it 110% but he took them as far as he can, this group couldn't give any more for him.

shockframe

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

He’s rated as being a top class manager by thissr and and proved by sauntering to an AI in his first season. But DOG out of the game with 10 years is the right man for it because you couldn’t think of anyone else

DOG got Limerick back on the right road after the Justin debacle in 2010. The improvement we made in the first 4 years of the decade would not have happened without him.He was treated disgracefully by Limerick in 2014.

He might not win the All Ireland for ye but no way would ye have suffered a campaign like ye have this season. He'd need to be "convinced" but ye could do a lot worse.

Motivator

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

We were caught cold in '08. The players were spooked either by the occasion or Kilkenny's aggression or both. But some of them did give up, more or less

To be fair to all concerned, what happened in 2008 was car crash stuff. Ken McGrath said it in his book that he felt they should have gotten councelling after that. I remember the banquet that evening I met a couple of the players over the course of the night and they were genuinely devastated and some of them still say they aren’t over it.

The 2008 final and the current situation is incomparable. Sadly, June 2008 and the current situation are comparable.

What I don’t get is why players train from October to now to give up. Why bother? If they don’t like the set up or the man in charge then walk away. There’s plenty of lads on the bench and the extended panel who have trained for days like yesterday.

How the **** could any self respecting player not want to turn around in a couple of years time and say that they stood toe to toe with the All Ireland winners in Walsh Park. I genuinely don’t get it. I had teachers in school that I didn’t like or didn’t get on with but I didn’t walk into the class every day and not bother my arse trying. I got on with it because at the end of the day the teachers job and my aim were the same thing. I wanted to get an education and they wanted to give me one. There’s a common goal regardless of personal relationships and the same theory applies to intercounty players and managers. Have the several hundred players that have come and gone under Brian Cody all loved him? Not at all, I’d say the vast majority of lads hated him but they all respected him and got on with the job because they all wanted the same thing. They all wanted to win.

It’s easy for me to say it but if I had ever been good enough to play for Waterford I can honestly say I wouldn’t have cared less if Hitler was the manager. As long as he wanted to win games I’d have shut up and got on with it no questions asked. I’m getting more and more annoyed going back over the last few weeks in my head but the bottom line is this, if these players are so precious with regards to the management set up or who gets to choose the music on the bus or whatever it is that’s causing this, we can forget about any sort of silverware for an awful long time. If my son was of an age and had a level of ability where he was close to breaking through on to this current Waterford team I wouldn’t let him play. Would I want my son being involved in a situation where fellas who are the best at what they do are happy to give up in their biggest match of the year, at home, in front of their own people? Would I fuçk. I wouldn’t want him anywhere near it and that’s what’s coming down the line here.

Tramore84

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Apparently when Michael Collins came to Waterford looking for support for the uprising he was thought to have left the message to visitors to the city: “tread carefully, you might wake Waterford”. That lack of internal drive seems to exist even today. It’s a forlorn city right now. I mean the “recession” is five years ago but you wouldn’t know it in Waterford. It’s something in the general psyche.

Waterford was one of the few active areas in the War of Independence, personally I don't place much faith in the supposed mutterings of a man who has been misquoted many many times. The players might have given up last Sunday but I don't see that as reflective of the city or county. Lots to be optimistic about regarding the county (and city). A couple of atrocious hurling performances doesn't change that, imo.

Stacksofwacks

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Apparently when Michael Collins came to Waterford looking for support for the uprising he was thought to have left the message to visitors to the city: “tread carefully, you might wake Waterford”. That lack of internal drive seems to exist even today. It’s a forlorn city right now. I mean the “recession” is five years ago but you wouldn’t know it in Waterford. It’s something in the general psyche.

Theres something in what you're saying. Even going back to the 90's/2000's team. You were never confident in them that they'd go right to the end. They seemed to be looking for the easy way to win games, clever flicks, audacious shots etc When it worked it was brilliant and they could blow teams off the park after 15 minutes, but when it came to wrestling teams in the mud they were often found wanting.

Steve

Folks, some of the comments posted here tonight are really deplorable.

If you continue with the petty squabbles then this thread will be closed and you will have nowhere to discuss Waterford GAA in future,

Please report problem posts rather than responding to them in future, thanks.

I shall be reviewing this evenings mod actions as I believe they were perhaps too lenient.

Stacksofwacks

I wouldnt fancy modding this thread for the next few months, the bile and nastiness will likely break the boards servers

Dont Stop

Heres my alternate team next week.

Billy Nolan GK
Callum Lyons CB
C Gleeson FB
Noel Connors CB
C Prunty WB
A Gleeson CB
D Fives WB
Shane Bennett CM
C Roche CM
T Ryan WF
J Prendergast CF
M Shanahan WF
S Bennett CF
Brick FF
Kearney

Look at bringing in Sean Power and Paul Flynn for the last game. Take stock then over the summer and next winter.

Jerry Atrick

Steve wrote: »

Folks, some of the comments posted here tonight are really deplorable.

If you continue with the petty squabbles then this thread will be closed and you will have nowhere to discuss Waterford GAA in future,

Please report problem posts rather than responding to them in future, thanks.

I shall be reviewing this evenings mod actions as I believe they were perhaps too lenient.

Hear hear...one fella looking for a pat on the back, the other a wind up merchant.

cul beag

Motivator wrote: »

To be fair to all concerned, what happened in 2008 was car crash stuff. Ken McGrath said it in his book that he felt they should have gotten councelling after that. I remember the banquet that evening I met a couple of the players over the course of the night and they were genuinely devastated and some of them still say they aren’t over it.

The 2008 final and the current situation is incomparable. Sadly, June 2008 and the current situation are comparable.

What I don’t get is why players train from October to now to give up. Why bother? If they don’t like the set up or the man in charge then walk away. There’s plenty of lads on the bench and the extended panel who have trained for days like yesterday.

How the **** could any self respecting player not want to turn around in a couple of years time and say that they stood toe to toe with the All Ireland winners in Walsh Park. I genuinely don’t get it. I had teachers in school that I didn’t like or didn’t get on with but I didn’t walk into the class every day and not bother my arse trying. I got on with it because at the end of the day the teachers job and my aim were the same thing. I wanted to get an education and they wanted to give me one. There’s a common goal regardless of personal relationships and the same theory applies to intercounty players and managers. Have the several hundred players that have come and gone under Brian Cody all loved him? Not at all, I’d say the vast majority of lads hated him but they all respected him and got on with the job because they all wanted the same thing. They all wanted to win.

It’s easy for me to say it but if I had ever been good enough to play for Waterford I can honestly say I wouldn’t have cared less if Hitler was the manager. As long as he wanted to win games I’d have shut up and got on with it no questions asked. I’m getting more and more annoyed going back over the last few weeks in my head but the bottom line is this, if these players are so precious with regards to the management set up or who gets to choose the music on the bus or whatever it is that’s causing this, we can forget about any sort of silverware for an awful long time. If my son was of an age and had a level of ability where he was close to breaking through on to this current Waterford team I wouldn’t let him play. Would I want my son being involved in a situation where fellas who are the best at what they do are happy to give up in their biggest match of the year, at home, in front of their own people? Would I fuçk. I wouldn’t want him anywhere near it and that’s what’s coming down the line here.

My sentiments exactly. Well said.

blueflame

48 hours later and the pain of defeat is actually worse that it was Sunday? Because on reflection of the whole debacle i am struggling to see any way forward. Can anyone honestly see any manager of substance, never mind a manger trying to make a name for themselves, wanting to take charge of a group of players who act like spoiled children when they don't get what they want, and that is before the new manager would have to deal with our county board.

Lots of comments on here about underage structures, and criticism of this years minor side - this is not the root of our current problem - in actual fact this years side is one of the most competitive i have seen and last years was a very decent side also - do people think other counties are not putting the same if not more resources into their panels - of course they are. Again I will quote, look at the performances of Calum Lyons, Conor Prunty, and Jack Prednergast last Sunday, three young lads who have not had the chance to become infected by years of light touch mothering and being spoiled rotten. Those three lads have not forgotten the importance of being selected to represent your county. I will never forget the look on the face of Calum Lyons as he ran towards the tunnel at full time on Sunday even, he was visibly upset by what had happened, despite he working himself into the ground and competing manfully to the last whistle against supposedly vastly superior opposition. I did not see this emotion repeated on many others.

While there are undoubtedly deficiencies with our underage structures, they are producing decent raw material, look at last years under 21 side - but unfortunately their progression is stopping once they enter the senior grade. Can anyone honestly name even two Senior players whose game has improved or developed over the last four years - for me the majority have gone backwards!

People say we have no forwards, rubbish, we could have had a full forward line of Henry Shefflin, Patrick Horgan, and Seamus Callinan last Sunday and they would have struggled with the quality and supply of ball being delivered.

This panel needs a wrecking ball to be taken to it to root out the poison that is endemic in it at present, and unfortunately i do not see how this is going to happen. Regrettably Pauric Fanning does not seem up to the task so it will most likely be back to the return of the "messiah" telling everyone how he was right all along, his point has been proven about the need for defensive set up. At the same time he will probably continue telling anyone that will listen that the vast majority of supporters are idiots who don't know what they are talking about and don't understand what he is doing. Mind you these are the same idiots who he will be asking to fund his "playgroup" and provide new rattlers for them, especially since most of them threw theirs away last Sunday.

I am a realist, I am following Waterford Hurling longer than i care to remember, I have seen plenty of extremely poor sides beaten out the gate because of poor quality, poor preparation and poor tactics and accepted this

I have always defended my county and the players who represent it, but last Sunday, there was no defence for the majority, to me they "went on strike" and in doing so stuck two fingers up to the honest decent supporters, those same supporters who dug deep to fund their lavish holiday to Cancun, since which i don't think they have won a meaningful game of any sort.

Instead of ordering new rattlers, time to order some mirrors, because a lot of these lads need to have a long hard look at themselves and decide do they really want to represent Waterford. The sickening point is that they do have the talent and ability, they have shown that in previous displays against top quality opposition, and this for me is the hardest part to take.

enoughtaken

been discussed on WLR now

Mastermcgrath

Motivator wrote: »

What I don’t get is why players train from October to now to give up. Why bother? If they don’t like the set up or the man in charge then walk away. There’s plenty of lads on the bench and the extended panel who have trained for days like yesterday.

How the **** could any self respecting player not want to turn around in a couple of years time and say that they stood toe to toe with the All Ireland winners in Walsh Park. I genuinely don’t get it. .

A lot of them don’t know any different, they’ve been involved in intercounty teams since primary game, even at that age are big fish in their local schools/area. They’ve been mentored and mollycoddled from an early age. GAA is all they know a lot of them would be lost without it it. As much as some of them have given up and don’t want to try a leg they still don’t consider packing it in and can’t envisage a life without it. I’d actually admire the lads that do have balls the balls to walk away if their not happy. kind of sad in many ways

carter10

While the pain from Sunday has not dissipated and I view the future with a fear of a return to the bad old days of the 80 and 90s I can't accept the now generally held narrative that the players threw in the towel on Sunday. These players got to an all ireland final and also with 14 men got back to within 3 points of Tipperary until fatigue and Tipp superior ability and gameplan blew them away.

While i am in despair about our situation - as I was in 82,83 and 93 - I am surprised at the level of 'pilling on' by pundits. Today i read on the RTE website Eddie Brennan commenting about the players wanting Matty Forde before Fanning and saying players should play for the manager regardless- I find this astonishing that a current serving manager throws out opinions about another county, especially one who hasn't set the world alight himself in his role.

The treatment of Austin Gleeson on the Sunday game also was appalling. This year alone he has been asked to play - centre back, wing back, midfield, half forward and full forward. Ask yourself if you were treated this way how would you fare as a player.

We have numerous instances of players being messed around- Patrick Curran; barely used in the league, no game against Clare then starting against Tipp followed by no game against Limerick. Brick - no game time until last Sunday. Conor Gleeson on the bench last Sunday for no apparent reason. Overall the selection of the team all year has no sense or reason to it. Similarly the game plan - or lack of it.

Add to this the obvious lack of fitness and skill- this is down to the management team. For the last 2 games, we spend no time during the "warm up" taking shots at goal. Last Sunday Limerick spent the last 5 minutes before the start raining balls down on the terrace behind the goal. Small things.

A lot of people blame the players, some blame the manager the truth as always is somewhere in the middle. Also, us as supporters have to take some responsibility. I was in Ennis last year and the atmosphere was actually hostile to both the team and us the traveling support. Clare entered the field to a thunderous roar. Last Sunday Limerick got a bigger welcome than Waterford. Tickets still available on Sundy morning. How can supporters give out about players when they themselves 'threw in the towel'

Our attention to detail in many facets of what we do is not good enough; for example, even the band couldn't play the national anthem in tune last Sunday and the ridiculous situation with the crowd being heard over the PA embarrassing stuff. Enda McEvoy made this very point recently about the press box in Walsh Park - he pointed out in the Examiner the dirt of the place- even after this it wasn't cleaned. He commented again on it after a game in Thurles when he was provided with sandwiches and Tea in a clean press box. Small things.

carter10

While the pain from Sunday has not dissipated and I view the future with a fear of a return to the bad old days of the 80 and 90s I can't accept the now generally held narrative that the players threw in the towel on Sunday. These players got to an all ireland final and also with 14 men got back to within 3 points of Tipperary until fatigue and Tipp superior ability and gameplan blew them away.

While i am in despair about our situation - as I was in 82,83 and 93 - I am surprised at the level of 'pilling on' by pundits. Today i read on the RTE website Eddie Brennan commenting about the players wanting Matty Forde before Fanning and saying players should play for the manager regardless- I find this astonishing that a current serving manager throws out opinions about another county, especially one who hasn't set the world alight himself in his role.

The treatment of Austin Gleeson on the Sunday game also was appalling. This year alone he has been asked to play - centre back, wing back, midfield, half forward and full forward. Ask yourself if you were treated this way how would you fare as a player.

We have numerous instances of players being messed around- Patrick Curran; barely used in the league, no game against Clare then starting against Tipp followed by no game against Limerick. Brick - no game time until last Sunday. Conor Gleeson on the bench last Sunday for no apparent reason. Overall the selection of the team all year has no sense or reason to it. Similarly the game plan - or lack of it.

Add to this the obvious lack of fitness and skill- this is down to the management team. For the last 2 games, we spend no time during the "warm up" taking shots at goal. Last Sunday Limerick spent the last 5 minutes before the start raining balls down on the terrace behind the goal. Small things.

A lot of people blame the players, some blame the manager the truth as always is somewhere in the middle. Also, us as supporters have to take some responsibility. I was in Ennis last year and the atmosphere was actually hostile to both the team and us the traveling support. Clare entered the field to a thunderous roar. Last Sunday Limerick got a bigger welcome than Waterford. Tickets still available on Sundy morning. How can supporters give out about players when they themselves 'threw in the towel'

Our attention to detail in many facets of what we do is not good enough; for example, even the band couldn't play the national anthem in tune last Sunday and the ridiculous situation with the crowd being heard over the PA embarrassing stuff. Enda McEvoy made this very point recently about the press box in Walsh Park - he pointed out in the Examiner the dirt of the place- even after this it wasn't cleaned. He commented again on it after a game in Thurles when he was provided with sandwiches and Tea in a clean press box. Small things.

carter10

*Matty Kenny

hardybuck

After three games played, Carlow's scoring difference in the Leinster championship is better than Waterford's in Munster...

Dammo

hardybuck wrote: »

After three games played, Carlow's scoring difference in the Leinster championship is better than Waterford's in Munster...

Jesus, surely as a player you can express your dissatisfaction with management (if that’s the case) without making a holy show of yourself and your county. The lack of effort and passion is beyond embarrassing.

JesusRef

carter10 wrote: »

While the pain from Sunday has not dissipated and I view the future with a fear of a return to the bad old days of the 80 and 90s I can't accept the now generally held narrative that the players threw in the towel on Sunday. These players got to an all ireland final and also with 14 men got back to within 3 points of Tipperary until fatigue and Tipp superior ability and gameplan blew them away.

While i am in despair about our situation - as I was in 82,83 and 93 - I am surprised at the level of 'pilling on' by pundits. Today i read on the RTE website Eddie Brennan commenting about the players wanting Matty Forde before Fanning and saying players should play for the manager regardless- I find this astonishing that a current serving manager throws out opinions about another county, especially one who hasn't set the world alight himself in his role.

The treatment of Austin Gleeson on the Sunday game also was appalling. This year alone he has been asked to play - centre back, wing back, midfield, half forward and full forward. Ask yourself if you were treated this way how would you fare as a player.

We have numerous instances of players being messed around- Patrick Curran; barely used in the league, no game against Clare then starting against Tipp followed by no game against Limerick. Brick - no game time until last Sunday. Conor Gleeson on the bench last Sunday for no apparent reason. Overall the selection of the team all year has no sense or reason to it. Similarly the game plan - or lack of it.

Add to this the obvious lack of fitness and skill- this is down to the management team. For the last 2 games, we spend no time during the "warm up" taking shots at goal. Last Sunday Limerick spent the last 5 minutes before the start raining balls down on the terrace behind the goal. Small things.

A lot of people blame the players, some blame the manager the truth as always is somewhere in the middle. Also, us as supporters have to take some responsibility. I was in Ennis last year and the atmosphere was actually hostile to both the team and us the traveling support. Clare entered the field to a thunderous roar. Last Sunday Limerick got a bigger welcome than Waterford. Tickets still available on Sundy morning. How can supporters give out about players when they themselves 'threw in the towel'

Our attention to detail in many facets of what we do is not good enough; for example, even the band couldn't play the national anthem in tune last Sunday and the ridiculous situation with the crowd being heard over the PA embarrassing stuff. Enda McEvoy made this very point recently about the press box in Walsh Park - he pointed out in the Examiner the dirt of the place- even after this it wasn't cleaned. He commented again on it after a game in Thurles when he was provided with sandwiches and Tea in a clean press box. Small things.

Now that you mention it there is a lot of half arsed effort across the board in relation to Waterford GAA.

hardybuck

A business organisation would be conducting a root and branch review of their structures at this point, taking the views of all key stakeholders into account.

The senior team is the end product of all the efforts throughout the different layers of administration, of local volunteers working in the clubs, underage - everything.

The recurring theme is a shoddy and half arsed effort at most things. The anthems, the state of the stadium for the last decade, dirty press box etc. etc.

Add to that the poor attendances at club games. Struggling to get championships finished in time for provincial championships. Throwing out football teams out to be slaughtered after only pulling together a management team a few weeks beforehand. Running out of money and needing to be supported by Croke Park.

It's not doom and gloom completely, but if a Chief Executive ran a show like this the Board would have them out. I think the problem here is that there's no external oversight and constructive challenge within the organisation, all the candidates for senior positions are coming from the same pool of candidates who've been there forever, which allows it to turn into an echo chamber where some things slip and some things are done pretty shoddily.

If at the end of the season the senior hurling management are packing their bags, a lot of the board executive should be doing likewise, and replaced by a more diverse group - some of whom come from the existing structures but also some from outside the GAA and from different professional backgrounds.

mistermiyagi

Waterford GAA is like a time warp. Was it Brian Corcoran said in his book 13/14 years ago . . . 'Waterford . . Fighting . . Losing. . Blaming Others'.
Yes, Cork have a bit of their own history since then but when they went on strike they did it properly, rather that than the cowardly way we saw on Sunday by some, not all it must be said.

deiseach

This thread is like Arsenal Fan TV without the laughs. Fam blud.

TheScoringGoal

A lot of Cork folk, including Dónal Óg Cusack, seem to have forgotten https://m.independent.ie/sport/hurling/galway-glide-past-woeful-rebels-26041236.html

KevIRL

Dont Stop wrote: »

Heres my alternate team next week.

Billy Nolan GK
Callum Lyons CB
C Gleeson FB
Noel Connors CB
C Prunty WB
A Gleeson CB
D Fives WB
Shane Bennett CM
C Roche CM
T Ryan WF
J Prendergast CF
M Shanahan WF
S Bennett CF
Brick FF
Kearney

Look at bringing in Sean Power and Paul Flynn for the last game. Take stock then over the summer and next winter.

Personally would only start Lyons, Prunty and Jack Prendergast from Sunday. All of the fringe and squad players such as Daragh Lyons, Billy Nolan, Colm Roche, Stephen Roche, Kieran Bennett, Mark O Brien, Jordan Henley, DJ Foran, Peter Hogan, Shane McNulty, Brian O Halloran and Colin Dunford should be considered for starts ahead of those involved last Sunday. Any of them who were on the lash Sunday or Monday in Nicky's though I wouldnt start and go down to the under 20 squad if required

bullpost

The problem with the new system is your whole season can be out the window after a couple of bad games. Not sure if this is a factor on teams who are trying to rebuild etc. And this in a massively competitive Munster . At least under the old system if things went bad, you got a break and a chance to regroup through the backdoor system.

hardybuck

KevIRL wrote: »

Personally would only start Lyons, Prunty and Jack Prendergast from Sunday. All of the fringe and squad players such as Daragh Lyons, Billy Nolan, Colm Roche, Stephen Roche, Kieran Bennett, Mark O Brien, Jordan Henley, DJ Foran, Peter Hogan, Shane McNulty, Brian O Halloran and Colin Dunford should be considered for starts ahead of those involved last Sunday. Any of them who were on the lash Sunday or Monday in Nicky's though I wouldnt start and go down to the under 20 squad if required

If you do that you're potentially sending in a team of young lads to be slaughtered down in Cork. It would be much fairer to them to be blooded properly in next year's league.

TheScoringGoal

hardybuck wrote: »

If you do that you're potentially sending in a team of young lads to be slaughtered down in Cork. It would be much fairer to them to be blooded properly in next year's league.

What you say is correct but would you have any confidence in the established players bothering this weekend? Playing them could be even worse. I felt sorry for the full back line last weekend looking up to play passes and realistically only Miley Kearney wanted the ball.

Cornerstoner

Were going to get beaten either way. At least send out a team who want to be there and put the jersey on with pride. They have trained all year and deserve a chance

hardybuck

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

What you say is correct but would you have any confidence in the established players bothering this weekend? Playing them could be even worse. I felt sorry for the full back line last weekend looking up to play passes and realistically only Miley Kearney wanted the ball.

I definitely get the temptation to drop a significant number of them but I think it would be counterproductive.

It should be made clear to the players that if they don't at the very least die with their boots on in Cork, there will be a significant overhaul of players next season - probably conducted by a new management team.

At least then if they disgrace the jersey like that again they can't whinge next year when they're not involved.

KevIRL

hardybuck wrote: »

If you do that you're potentially sending in a team of young lads to be slaughtered down in Cork. It would be much fairer to them to be blooded properly in next year's league.

I know what you are saying, but everyone of the above have played a number of times for the county

blueflame

Agree with both sentiments, understanding the logic behind each one. Personally i would mix and match, given some lads a chance to redeem themselves whilst giving the likes of Colm Roche, Shane McNulty, Darragh Lyons etc.., a chance to show how much it means to them to play for their county. The attacks have been many and scathing and for the most point justified, if this team cannot react to this, then they need to be dismantled.

The big fear I have, and i could be a million miles wrong, is that certain elements of the team are doing this to deliberately engineer the return of the previous management, and if we do give into this blackmail and go down that road, where does it stop?

A lot of people, players and managers, give out about supporters voicing opinions. As long as it is not voiced in a personal or aggressive manner I believe supporters being given their chance to voice opinion is a very important part of sport. After all they are the ones offering financial support through attendances, club subscriptions, fund raising and financial events. Many of those supporters have worked with and provided the players that are on the current panel through their clubs over the years and are very knowledgeable, loyal and passionate - and most of all they know when they are being conned, and they deserve to be heard.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

KevIRL wrote: »

Personally would only start Lyons, Prunty and Jack Prendergast from Sunday. All of the fringe and squad players such as Daragh Lyons, Billy Nolan, Colm Roche, Stephen Roche, Kieran Bennett, Mark O Brien, Jordan Henley, DJ Foran, Peter Hogan, Shane McNulty, Brian O Halloran and Colin Dunford should be considered for starts ahead of those involved last Sunday. Any of them who were on the lash Sunday or Monday in Nicky's though I wouldnt start and go down to the under 20 squad if required

Ah no, they were on it Monday too? Well in that case, I'd fully agree with you.
It's a hard one to call as others have said. Give lads a chance or get slaughtered on live TV. A mix is probably best and take out some of the main culprits based on form as well as the discipline factor. I wouldn't mind going to support the team knowing lads were getting a chance but the thoughts of making the effort to go down and see lads who were on the sauce is not appealing.

Deisegodeo

Am I get to getting the wrong end of the stick Here, or were some Players on the beer Sunday and Monday?

nlrkjos

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

A lot of Cork folk, including Dónal Óg Cusack, seem to have forgotten https://m.independent.ie/sport/hurling/galway-glide-past-woeful-rebels-26041236.html

!7 years ago ! not forgotten, but we at least moved on from there, played 5 finals and won two, lost one agin Clare that we should have won. Your lads dumped a couple of managers and still haven't won All Ireland, and looks like they are dumping another! so while I see your point about Cork troubles....we bounced back, maybe justifying those troubles, will the Waterford hurlers do the same...in a way I hope they do, but obviously not at our expense:D

Cornerstoner

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Am I get to getting the wrong end of the stick Here, or were some Players on the beer Sunday and Monday?

Confirmed with my own eyes on Sunday

munsterlegend

What is a bit unfair on Waterford is having to play 6 days after. Only county affected like this?

JeffKenna

munsterlegend wrote: »

What is a bit unfair on Waterford is having to play 6 days after. Only county affected like this?

True...sure they'll need 2 days at least to get over the hangover!

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Am I get to getting the wrong end of the stick Here, or were some Players on the beer Sunday and Monday?

Confirmed with my own eyes on Sunday

Without mentioning names, are we talking about three or four lads or half the panel?

carq

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Without mentioning names, are we talking about three or four lads or half the panel?

Am i reading this right - 2 nights on the beer ?

hardybuck

munsterlegend wrote: »

What is a bit unfair on Waterford is having to play 6 days after. Only county affected like this?

Especially seeing Cork had a break at the weekend.

munsterlegend

hardybuck wrote: »

Especially seeing Cork had a break at the weekend.

Yeah that makes it even more unfair. Did county board even object? Can’t imagine cork agreeing to that if roles reversed.

Cornerstoner

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Without mentioning names, are we talking about three or four lads or half the panel?

Were talking double digits

Deise Vu

Jesus lads, so far we have had the County Board to blame, the management, individual players, the team as a whole, fitness, attitude, discipline, skill, commitment and facilities. We might as well blame the fixture list too. Maybe the lads were saving themselves for a barnstomer next Saturday?

I have witnessed the '82 and '83 debacles and I can honestly say I have never been more dispirited leaving a match as last Sunday. At least in the 80's we had come from nowhere to contest Munster finals when that meant something. The current setup, and everyone on the squad, the management and county board, has to shoulder some blame, have taken us from contesting an All-Ireland final to opening the debate as to why no Munster team should be relegated. They all need to take a good long look in the mirror and decide if they want to be part of the county setup or be replaced by someone who does.

Will we even see the county championship being played off over the Summer months now? Or will it be one or two games a month and the county final played a week before the Munster Championship because the players all take off to Boston and New York again. The horrible fact is that, yet again this year when the ground and weather are best suited to Hurling, we will have hardly any when every serious hurling county in the country is going at it hammer and tongs. They will be getting better while we circle the drain.