Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

blue note

I couldn't blame him for having a cut off those people. It would be one thing if their criticism was fair and just a difference of opinion, but it wasn't. He was being critised fire playing a defensive system when we were returning relatively high tallies. For not having a goal threat when in 2017 we were the only team scoring goals. For holding back our players when he simply wasn't (and looking at them now it would support this). But worse, even he left and we went into a new season with a new manager, still people want to blame anything that goes wrong on him.

He hasn't really had a cut off the players or current management, just the pundits. Pauric father was a prominent one of those, so if he's happy to dish it out in a newspaper he should be prepared to take it in a paper too.

A lot of the posting here has been pathetic too. The abuse at the players considering all they've given up for us even this year has been shocking. They've had an awful season and I'm sure they're feeling worse about it than anyone. But I'd say they've given up their social lives and family lives in the pursuit of a good season. We owe them some respect. Same with this management, I might think they've fallen short, but I'm sure they've given everything they had to the cause this year. But after listening to criticism that didn't even make sense for 5 years as manager I can understand Derek's frustration that he still has to listen to it in retirement.

BloodyBill

blue note wrote: »

I couldn't blame him for having a cut off those people. It would be one thing if their criticism was fair and just a difference of opinion, but it wasn't. He was being critised fire playing a defensive system when we were returning relatively high tallies. For not having a goal threat when in 2017 we were the only team scoring goals. For holding back our players when he simply wasn't (and looking at them now it would support this). But worse, even he left and we went into a new season with a new manager, still people want to blame anything that goes wrong on him.

He hasn't really had a cut off the players or current management, just the pundits. Pauric father was a prominent one of those, so if he's happy to dish it out in a newspaper he should be prepared to take it in a paper too.

A lot of the posting here has been pathetic too. The abuse at the players considering all they've given up for us even this year has been shocking. They've had an awful season and I'm sure they're feeling worse about it than anyone. But I'd say they've given up their social lives and family lives in the pursuit of a good season. We owe them some respect. Same with this management, I might think they've fallen short, but I'm sure they've given everything they had to the cause this year. But after listening to criticism that didn't even make sense for 5 years as manager I can understand Derek's frustration that he still has to listen to it in retirement.

Derek McGrath is making a fool out of himself now. That essay was like a first year uni piece . It's just a self serving piece of propaganda. Hes doubling down on why his period in charge was a 'success'. He doesn't care about anyone only his own legacy. Funny thing is he damages it the more he writes. The guy isnt half as clever as he thinks he is...quoting 6th year Shakespeare, for Pete's sake. I'd love to know how this oxygen hes pumping into the Waterford fire is helping

debok

BloodyBill wrote: »

Derek McGrath is making a fool out of himself now. That essay was like a first year uni piece . It's just a self serving piece of propaganda. Hes doubling down on why his period in charge was a 'success'. He doesn't care about anyone only his own legacy. Funny thing is he damages it the more he writes. The guy isnt half as clever as he thinks he is...quoting 6th year Shakespeare, for Pete's sake. I'd love to know how this oxygen hes pumping into the Waterford fire is helping

Surely if people are entitled to point out his failings then he's entitled to defend his position. He just uses national media instead of boards!!!
In fairness there was successes in his time not enough trophies in my opinion but with the amount of all stars won in his time and poy/ypoy etc it makes me think that he got the best out of them players. Some of them downed tools because they didn't like paraics methods or maybe he didn't have the spiel that suited there egos. We have a lot of players in the county who are very good in a winning team but quickly blame manager when losing this happens both at club and intercounty.
Back or sack paraic now so it's done either way. This will give time to him or new manager to get a proper backroom staff installed and hopefully find few new fellas in club championship.

BazBox

BloodyBill wrote: »

Derek McGrath is making a fool out of himself now. That essay was like a first year uni piece . It's just a self serving piece of propaganda. Hes doubling down on why his period in charge was a 'success'. He doesn't care about anyone only his own legacy. Funny thing is he damages it the more he writes. The guy isnt half as clever as he thinks he is...quoting 6th year Shakespeare, for Pete's sake. I'd love to know how this oxygen hes pumping into the Waterford fire is helping

Did he tell you this himself or is it just something you thought up and then decided it must be true?

Obi1mikal

Ken McGrath views success different to Derek McGrath, on the sunday game ken spoke of success over 10 years, during that 10 years he was a player and a selector so the comment was not pointed entirely at Derek.

Ken obviously sees success as actual silverware for the team something derek ultimately failed to deliver over his 5 years in charge (barring the sole league victory).

I think it is down right shameful (and blasphemous) out of Derek to drag Ken's name into his article, when his sunday games comments were about a 10 year period.

_blaaz

BazBox wrote: »

Did he tell you this himself or is it just something you thought up and then decided it must be true?

The fact he had nothing positive to say about new players coming onto the team,(prunty and calum.lyons)who are only bright spots for us this season

and used a national newspaper to do a hatchet job on any critism and essentially accuse his critics of placing club rivilary above the health of county game.....could lead one to perhaps conclude he places an over emphasis on his own legacy??


Always taught he had a touch of class(particularly speech post all ireland loss),while wary of limitiations of his tactics....but he is just an absolute toxic individual underneath it all when his coulers come to show

cul beag

_blaaz wrote: »

The fact he had nothing positive to say about new players coming onto the team,(prunty and calum.lyons)who are only bright spots for us this season

and used a national newspaper to do a hatchet job on any critism and essentially accuse his critics of placing club rivilary above the health of county game.....could lead one to perhaps conclude he places an over emphasis on his own legacy??


Always taught he had a touch of class(particularly speech post all ireland loss),while wary of limitiations of his tactics....but he is just an absolute toxic individual underneath it all when his coulers come to show

He hasn’t anything good to say about them because they have shown up one of his many faults as a manager and that was his blind loyalty to the squad he put together and one that couldn’t be added to or subtracted from as in his own head it would show failure.

Spatters

I think to be fair to Ken, he has been consistent in his criticism of the sweeper system as a way of winning things long before Paraic Fanning came along

SW1985

blue note wrote: »

I couldn't blame him for having a cut off those people. It would be one thing if their criticism was fair and just a difference of opinion, but it wasn't. He was being critised fire playing a defensive system when we were returning relatively high tallies. For not having a goal threat when in 2017 we were the only team scoring goals. For holding back our players when he simply wasn't (and looking at them now it would support this). But worse, even he left and we went into a new season with a new manager, still people want to blame anything that goes wrong on him.

He hasn't really had a cut off the players or current management, just the pundits. Pauric father was a prominent one of those, so if he's happy to dish it out in a newspaper he should be prepared to take it in a paper too.

A lot of the posting here has been pathetic too. The abuse at the players considering all they've given up for us even this year has been shocking. They've had an awful season and I'm sure they're feeling worse about it than anyone. But I'd say they've given up their social lives and family lives in the pursuit of a good season. We owe them some respect. Same with this management, I might think they've fallen short, but I'm sure they've given everything they had to the cause this year. But after listening to criticism that didn't even make sense for 5 years as manager I can understand Derek's frustration that he still has to listen to it in retirement.

I agree with everything you say here. A sensible,thoughtful and accurate post in a sea of ****e

SW1985

cul beag wrote: »

He hasn’t anything good to say about them because they have shown up one of his many faults as a manager and that was his blind loyalty to the squad he put together and one that couldn’t be added to or subtracted from as in his own head it would show failure.

They weren't ready last season. He had previously mentioned at least one if not two of them as having a very big future with Waterford

_blaaz

SW1985 wrote: »

They weren't ready last season. He had previously mentioned at least one if not two of them as having a very big future with Waterford

Do you honestly think conor prunty would be starting ahead of barry coughlan,if mcgrath was still over the team??

SW1985

_blaaz wrote: »

Do you honestly think conor prunty would be starting ahead of barry coughlan,if mcgrath was still over the team??

Both would have been starting I'd imagine.

_blaaz

SW1985 wrote: »

Both would have been starting I'd imagine.

There is the issue...coughlan isnt intercounty standred (they even laugh about this in ballygunner ffs)....but because he is what seems to be favoured/pet he'll be picked irregardless

SW1985

_blaaz wrote: »

There is the issue...coughlan isnt intercounty standred (they even laugh about this in ballygunner ffs)....but because he is what seems to be favoured/pet he'll be picked irregardless

This is the kind of stuff that does my head in. The level of analysis amounts to having a cut at certain players you don't like.

We had a really solid defence during most of Dereks tenure. It wasn't about individual players in was a about a strong functioning defensive unit. We were as good as any team in the country at snuffing out goal chances. Barry played an important part in it.

Would you say we were better at the back this year? You wouldn't.

_blaaz

SW1985 wrote: »

This is the kind of stuff that does my head in. The level of analysis amounts to having a cut at certain players you don't like.

We had a really solid defence during most of Dereks tenure. It wasn't about individual players in was a about a strong functioning defensive unit. We were as good as any team in the country at snuffing out goal chances. Barry played an important part in it.

Would you say we were better at the back this year? You wouldn't.

Mate,i have nothing againest coughlan,by all accounts hes a top.person and sound out....but your the only person who thinks hes intercounty standred


If a player is getting roasted time and again its not just a bad day....rabbiting on with vague notions of a collective unit is waffle.....your only as strong as your weakest link...


.every county in the country was targeting him and it was gaurneteed scores every time ball went in there one on one....either forward win it and score or coughlan foul him and give away frees


He's not a good enough full back for the modern era....we were only county needed 2 sweepers....one for actual sweeping role....other to help the full back

Motivator

_blaaz wrote: »

There is the issue...coughlan isnt intercounty standred (they even laugh about this in ballygunner ffs)....but because he is what seems to be favoured/pet he'll be picked irregardless

Fair play to anyone that can laugh at a chap that was nominated for an All Star.

Stacksofwacks

That article is the biggest crock of horseshyte I've ever had the misfortune to read. I can't believe he even put his name to it. Absolute deluded fool and a bitter dishonest liar too. Derek i dont know if you ever read this forum but let me tell you you have single handedly destroyed this bunch of players and Waterford hurling with your horrendous management and ego. You should have packed in the job after year one when it was clear you were a spoofer and now you have the gall to blame the outgoing players back then who served Waterford well. You have won nothing and your record as a hurling manager is abysmal. And now you try to gaslight us with quotes and statistics. heres a quote that I think i heard somewhere @Trust your own eyes and not deceitful mouths. I watched your hurling for 5 years and what i saw was the hurling of a failed manager. I would trust Ken McGrath's and Brian Flannery's opinions any day over the trite you spout. After the desperation of this year i was somewhat open to Derek coming back for better or worse but now no, he is not the way forward. That's just toxic stuff he has come out with, i hope the powers that be are taking note and dont go near him with a barge pole ever again

Stacksofwacks

Apologies for the rant but I was genuinely shaking with anger after reading that article, methinks Derek has a career as a media provocateur

Ropaire

If Derek does read this he'll be delighted with the Shakespeare quotes used in the finely crafted rebuttals. A- standard cos no one is perfect.

JeffKenna

Ropaire wrote: »

If Derek does read this he'll be delighted with the Shakespeare quotes used in the finely crafted rebuttals. A- standard cos no one is perfect.

The prince of darkness is a gentleman!

Stopitwillya

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people"

Deise Gael

There's one thing I know, 20 and 30 years down the line, there will be volumes written about Ken McGrath and the film will be there for us to savour and to back up the legend that he is.

However, history won't be as kind to his namesake.

He'll be lucky if he gets one line or a footnote in our hurling history
.
He did a great disservice to Waterford hurling today which will not be forgotten.

Motivator

Deise Gael wrote: »

There's one thing I know, 20 and 30 years down the line, there will be volumes written about Ken McGrath and the film will be there for us to savour and to back up the legend that he is.

However, history won't be as kind to his namesake.

He'll be lucky if he gets one line or a footnote in our hurling history
.
He did a great disservice to Waterford hurling today which will not be forgotten.

I half to say I agree with you. Derek had absolutely nothing to gain writing that piece and I’m surprised he actually went ahead with it. I’m not surprised with the things he said, the air of superiority surrounding him has grown and grown over the last 12 months.

In truth, Derek will go down as an utter failure as manager of Waterford. Has any other manager lost as many finals as he? The players loved him yes, but you never hear them say he was a great tactician or he improved them as players. They regail us with stories of how he helped them to develop as men etc. His profession explains the power he held over the panel and the almost hypnotic hold that was on them during his time.

mickmackmcgoo

The reactions to Mcgraths comments in today's article are fascinating. Ex managers become pundits all the time. I didn't find his article that bad . English literature and grammar etc are a passion of his and his use of them in articles shouldn't be getting people's backs up. As for him not being remembered in Waterford hurling history, at the end of the day he got the team to an all Ireland and nearly won it . Whether we like the tactics or style he done a lot better than the present manager will do with most of the same players . We weren't in a great position after 2018 and his time was up for sure but we are in a worse place after this season

Stacksofwacks

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

The reactions to Mcgraths comments in today's article are fascinating. Ex managers become pundits all the time. I didn't find his article that bad . English literature and grammar etc are a passion of his and his use of them in articles shouldn't be getting people's backs up. As for him not being remembered in Waterford hurling history, at the end of the day he got the team to an all Ireland and nearly won it . Whether we like the tactics or style he done a lot better than the present manager will do with most of the same players . We weren't in a great position after 2018 and his time was up for sure but we are in a worse place after this season

You might have to read through the article a couple of times to really grasp it. he uses alot of floury language but the message is clear. Everything is other peoples fault and nothing to do with me cos I'm brilliant. Narcissism on a level Trump would be proud. Disgusting article really cos he takes swipes at people in the most underhanded and deadly manner possible. This Shakespeare stuff seems to have gone to his head

Deise Gael

There's one thing sure about Derek and that he is a leader of boys not men as he proved by jettisoning some serious experienced Waterford hurlers in 2015.

He thought he was being cute by bringing in some secondary students and freshers and asking for time. The type of schoolboys that he was used to managing.

Unfortunately for Derek, who likes to think he is the only well read person who follows Waterford hurling, it ended akin to another Shakespearean tragedy.

At this stage I'm not sure if he thinks is he Polonius, Hamlet, Cornwall, Atticus Finch, Boo Radley or Andy Dufresne but he's coming across as a really sad person.

He needs to move on.

5948ai

Lads this forum is depressing

EYEBALLSOUT

EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »

Motivator wrote: »

I half to say I agree with you. Derek had absolutely nothing to gain writing that piece and I’m surprised he actually went ahead with it. I’m not surprised with the things he said, the air of superiority surrounding him has grown and grown over the last 12 months.

In truth, Derek will go down as an utter failure as manager of Waterford. Has any other manager lost as many finals as he? The players loved him yes, but you never hear them say he was a great tactician or he improved them as players. They regail us with stories of how he helped them to develop as men etc. His profession explains the power he held over the panel and the almost hypnotic hold that was on them during his time

Of course he had a hold on them. Allegedly With
€€€ coming in from the USA & divvying out to players with little or no traceability sure they’d love him forever. Tis no wonder they never talked about his tactical prowess, they were delighted with the wage packet. #payforplay

Frozen Veg

Et Tu Brute (Derek)?

Mastermcgrath

Lads some of yere obsession with Derek McGrath is unhealthy. It’s 12 months down the line since he left and now writing articles on the examiner and yere still getting yere knickers in a twist about him. He’s a journalist now and if he wants to fire some shots back at people then that’s what journalists do. I doubt Ken McGrath or Brian Flannery are at home crying themselves to sleep, that’s just how media works, you make comments other people can bite back.

Personally I’d be much more concerned sbout Ken McGraths views of Waterford, as that’s a guy I respect as a leader and a winner. when he speaks I listen to, and value what he has to say

DEFTLEFTHAND

As a Tipp man I don't buy any of this talk of Waterford becoming the next Offaly.

People on here were on about Kerry or Carlow beating Waterford. Jaysus lad's a bit of perspective, Kerry are basically a Junior side playing at Seinor and Waterford would beat the living hell out of them in any competitive fixture.


You're going through a lull for sure but theres still talent there. That Conor Prunty is one the finest young hurlers around at the moment.


Ye'll be back again.

debok

EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »

EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »

Of course he had a hold on them. Allegedly With
€€€ coming in from the USA & divvying out to players with little or no traceability sure they’d love him forever. Tis no wonder they never talked about his tactical prowess, they were delighted with the wage packet. #payforplay

What?

JesusRef

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

As a Tipp man I don't buy any of this talk of Waterford becoming the next Offaly.

People on here were on about Kerry or Carlow beating Waterford. Jaysus lad's a bit of perspective, Kerry are basically a Junior side playing at Seinor and Waterford would beat the living hell out of them in any competitive fixture.


You're going through a lull for sure but theres still talent there. That Conor Prunty is one the finest young hurlers around at the moment.


Ye'll be back again.

Ya Offaly took some very bad beatings at all levels of underage over the last 10 years and would have lost to nearly every non-traditional counties in leinster in that time.

cant compare Waterford to that yet to be fair

letsseehere14

Guys as an outsider that article was incredible. So narcissistic!
Basically saying nobody understood how great his plan was and how people like Ken McGrath need selfreflection after their comments. Ken McGrath!
Here's a section:

"This closeness and familial connection was necessary, in my opinion, to nurture, mould and progress the team and to ensure a unity of purpose, a collective spirit, an intangible that could then defy logic where necessary."

So he wanted to be best friends/brother/father figure to them. And he doesn't see how that would obviously create a click and favourites (among the players that buy in or play him most) leading to undroppable players regardless of form?!
Does anyone think Cody thinks of his panel like that.

I'll be honest I thought McGrath maybe could have got another year due to injuries last year. They had battling performances but after reading that I say it was right he was replaced. That kind if mentality in a team will certainly in my book lead to serious rot over time. Ye would have been ultimately left in a worse place at the end than ye are in now if he stayed on. There would have been players who thought they were more important than the county they represent. And probably only have maybe another AI semi final appearance to show for it.

Id give Fanning another year. Let him make a mark in the panel and form his own team.

Gavlor

letsseehere14 wrote: »

Guys as an outsider that article was incredible. So narcissistic!
Basically saying nobody understood how great his plan was and how people like Ken McGrath need selfreflection after their comments. Ken McGrath!
Here's a section:

"This closeness and familial connection was necessary, in my opinion, to nurture, mould and progress the team and to ensure a unity of purpose, a collective spirit, an intangible that could then defy logic where necessary."

So he wanted to be best friends/brother/father figure to them. And he doesn't see how that would obviously create a click and favourites (among the players that buy in or play him most) leading to undroppable players regardless of form?!
Does anyone think Cody thinks of his panel like that.

I'll be honest I thought McGrath maybe could have got another year due to injuries last year. They had battling performances but after reading that I say it was right he was replaced. That kind if mentality in a team will certainly in my book lead to serious rot over time. Ye would have been ultimately left in a worse place at the end than ye are in now if he stayed on. There would have been players who thought they were more important than the county they represent. And probably only have maybe another AI semi final appearance to show for it.

Id give Fanning another year. Let him make a mark in the panel and form his own team.

You had me until the last sentence!

Just read that article, it’s actually written like a parody

mountgomery burns

I would disagree, Waterford were far too poor this year to give the manager another year. Cannot stand over an 18pt followed by a 20pt beating, with another double digit defeat for a finish.

Clare are in a bad place too but I think if SOD had been hurling earlier this year and Conlon was fit, given the supply of ball they had first half we'd probably have been well beaten too. I'd be all for giving a manager a chance, but to be honest in the new format you have multiple chances and if you can't get one performance out of the team but instead take hammerings then for me you've had your chance.

I don't see what more time is going to do, and it's alarming to me that some of our best hurlers not older than 25 even are being called for the drop as a result. The focus should be on who'll replace him, but I think after the problems they had last year the County Board have no appetite to find a new manager so he'll be there next year unless the players decide to convince them otherwise.

Waternut

Mcgrath has made an awful fool out of himself with that article.

SW1985

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

The reactions to Mcgraths comments in today's article are fascinating. Ex managers become pundits all the time. I didn't find his article that bad . English literature and grammar etc are a passion of his and his use of them in articles shouldn't be getting people's backs up. As for him not being remembered in Waterford hurling history, at the end of the day he got the team to an all Ireland and nearly won it . Whether we like the tactics or style he done a lot better than the present manager will do with most of the same players . We weren't in a great position after 2018 and his time was up for sure but we are in a worse place after this season

You've been on here enough to know theres nothing surprising about the reaction on here. Bitterness flows out of these people. The fact that it all blew up in their faces this year seems to have just made them dig in deeper. It's quite sad to be honest.

SW1985

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Lads some of yere obsession with Derek McGrath is unhealthy. It’s 12 months down the line since he left and now writing articles on the examiner and yere still getting yere knickers in a twist about him. He’s a journalist now and if he wants to fire some shots back at people then that’s what journalists do. I doubt Ken McGrath or Brian Flannery are at home crying themselves to sleep, that’s just how media works, you make comments other people can bite back.

Personally I’d be much more concerned sbout Ken McGraths views of Waterford, as that’s a guy I respect as a leader and a winner. when he speaks I listen to, and value what he has to say

People listening to Ken doesnt help when he clearly hasn't a ****ing clue. I say this as someone who idolises the man. He was just a much better player than he is an analyst.

_blaaz

SW1985 wrote: »

People listening to Ken doesnt help when he clearly hasn't a ****ing clue. I say this as someone who idolises the man. He was just a much better player than he is an analyst.

What was wrong with his analisis??

Ropaire

_blaaz wrote: »

What was wrong with his analisis??

He doesn't quote enough Shakespeare.

Best of luck to the camogie team as well. Are they the last team we have still playing this year?

Obi1mikal

SW1985 wrote: »

People listening to Ken doesnt help when he clearly hasn't a ****ing clue. I say this as someone who idolises the man. He was just a much better player than he is an analyst.

Wash your mouth out with soap now.. ken has forgotten more about hurling then you will ever know..

Please enlighten everyone as to what is wrong with his analysis??

When Waterford were easily beaten off of cork and he said they were leader less, sure he was wrong that day there was leaders all over the field or Waterford have been extremely successful over the last 10 years..

SW1985

Ken was an incredible hurler. His analysis is simplistic at best and inaccurate. In 2018 we had a great team held back by tactics. In 2019 we need a root and branch review because the players are no good. Cant have it both ways.

_blaaz

SW1985 wrote: »

Ken was an incredible hurler. His analysis is simplistic at best and inaccurate. In 2018 we had a great team held back by tactics. In 2019 we need a root and branch review because the players are no good. Cant have it both ways.

We also had players which visibly downed tools.after 20 mins vs limerick in 2019

EYEBALLSOUT

letsseehere14 wrote: »

Guys as an outsider that article was incredible. So narcissistic!
Basically saying nobody understood how great his plan was and how people like Ken McGrath need selfreflection after their comments. Ken McGrath!
Here's a section:

"This closeness and familial connection was necessary, in my opinion, to nurture, mould and progress the team and to ensure a unity of purpose, a collective spirit, an intangible that could then defy logic where necessary."

So he wanted to be best friends/brother/father figure to them. And he doesn't see how that would obviously create a click and favourites (among the players that buy in or play him most) leading to undroppable players regardless of form?!
Does anyone think Cody thinks of his panel like that.

I'll be honest I thought McGrath maybe could have got another year due to injuries last year. They had battling performances but after reading that I say it was right he was replaced. That kind if mentality in a team will certainly in my book lead to serious rot over time. Ye would have been ultimately left in a worse place at the end than ye are in now if he stayed on. There would have been players who thought they were more important than the county they represent. And probably only have maybe another AI semi final appearance to show for it.

Id give Fanning another year. Let him make a mark in the panel and form his own team.

Bang on, the man is losing all sense of reality and def has an overstated sense of his own importance.

seligehgit

Mod Warning

It is not permitted under any circumstances to attempt to identify a fellow poster.

Two incidents of same have occurred in recent times.

Such attempts will dealt with very severely going forward.

cul beag

SW1985 wrote: »

Ken was an incredible hurler. His analysis is simplistic at best and inaccurate. In 2018 we had a great team held back by tactics. In 2019 we need a root and branch review because the players are no good. Cant have it both ways.

No matter how you try to defend your hero the bottom line is he showed his true bitter self in that article yesterday. He craves adulation which he will never get in this county. He can’t take criticism and can’t take anyone else’s opinions so the changing of his backroom team was constant until he got the YES men on his side. Don’t forget that he wanted Shan gone and Fintan O Connor to stay only for the players demanding the opposite. So spare me the s#*te about the great Derek. Maybe he’ll be as forthcoming in his next article about the American dollars.................

EYEBALLSOUT

SW1985 wrote: »

People listening to Ken doesnt help when he clearly hasn't a ****ing clue. I say this as someone who idolises the man. He was just a much better player than he is an analyst.

Well i have to say that Ken, speaks a lot of common sense. I’m disappointed with that comment.
How does he ‘clearly haven’t a clue’? What a bland statement, which implies you do. If Ken doesn’t have a clue, neither does Shefflin, Eddie Brennan, Duignan because they are all like minded in their thinking of the way hurling should be played.
Ken mightn’t be the intellectual that Derek is or maybe he is but doesn’t like showing it off. One thing he knows is hurling. With the exception of Davy, The intellectual managers/Coaches still have no All Ireland’s won. The basics are still the same
You have to be able to win your own ball
- Waterford can’t do it. Kudos to Derek for recognizing it and coming up with a plan but long term, as in all close games, it comes back to the basics.

EYEBALLSOUT

blue note wrote: »

I couldn't blame him for having a cut off those people. It would be one thing if their criticism was fair and just a difference of opinion, but it wasn't. He was being critised fire playing a defensive system when we were returning relatively high tallies. For not having a goal threat when in 2017 we were the only team scoring goals. For holding back our players when he simply wasn't (and looking at them now it would support this). But worse, even he left and we went into a new season with a new manager, still people want to blame anything that goes wrong on him.


He hasn't really had a cut off the players or current management, just the pundits. Pauric father was a prominent one of those, so if he's happy to dish it out in a newspaper he should be prepared to take it in a paper too.

A lot of the posting here has been pathetic too. The abuse at the players considering all they've given up for us even this year has been shocking. They've had an awful season and I'm sure they're feeling worse about it than anyone. But I'd say they've given up their social lives and family lives in the pursuit of a good season. We owe them some respect. Same with this management, I might think they've fallen short, but I'm sure they've given everything they had to the cause this year. But after listening to criticism that didn't even make sense for 5 years as manager I can understand Derek's frustration that he still has to listen to it in retirement.

Returning relatively high tallies-
Won 2 Munster championship games out of 11 which begs the question what were we conceding?
I thought the article was in poor taste and written like a man who couldn’t wait to put pen to paper for revenge.
If you use the media to boost your profile, you have to be prepared for the criticism that comes with that territory!

All that said, its sad to see Waterford men go at each other in public like this because the root of the problem is still there and while all the sideshows are going on, it’s going unnoticed.
Lack of Vision or Ambition from Co Board is manifesting itself through results on the field not just at Senior Hurling but also Football, u20 football and minor hurling.

SW1985

EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »

Well i have to say that Ken, speaks a lot of common sense. I’m disappointed with that comment.
How does he ‘clearly haven’t a clue’? What a bland statement, which implies you do. If Ken doesn’t have a clue, neither does Shefflin, Eddie Brennan, Duignan because they are all like minded in their thinking of the way hurling should be played.
Ken mightn’t be the intellectual that Derek is or maybe he is but doesn’t like showing it off. One thing he knows is hurling. With the exception of Davy, The intellectual managers/Coaches still have no All Ireland’s won. The basics are still the same
You have to be able to win your own ball
- Waterford can’t do it. Kudos to Derek for recognizing it and coming up with a plan but long term, as in all close games, it comes back to the basics.

Perhaps it was a bit strongly worded when talking about someone as great as Ken. People dont want to question him due to how great a player he was. Using those words does me no favours because people will just close down when they hear any criticism of him and basically not listen to the argument.

I've always found his analysis of Waterford a bit simplistic and naive to and completely honest. All this courage to play and let them off the leash stuff. The game has changed a lot and he seems to want it to still be the 90s and 00s. If you look at limericks approach for example you can see how tactical it's gone. If you dont understand this stuff and adapt to it you wont be competitive.

Even Shefflin for all his talk about not using systems changed his tune when managing Ballyhale. Coady has tried pretty much everything except traditional style hurling in the last couple of years now that he doesnt have the best players any more. A lot of this stuff from these pundits was all talk and more about their preferred style to watch than an actual assesment of how effective the tactics were.

Ken also spent most of the last couple of years claiming Derek was holding back a good group of players. This year without a hint of self awareness he now says we don't have good enough players. It cant be both. We need more factually based arguments. And people need to be a big more discerning than just listening to what these lads say and taking it as gospel because of how good they were as players.