Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

JesusRef

thesaturdayman wrote: »

The 2018 minor team is now the u20 team & they actually beat tipp 2.13 to 3.9 in Munster championship - so all things being equal these lads should be well up to beating tipp tomorrow

The 2018 minor team (which was U17) are basically an U18 team this year not U20, there is lads 2 years older than that on tomorrow night's Tipp team?

Deisegodeo

Such an odd situation. No bias involved from what I can See, manager from roanmore and a Ballygunner selector too, so can't see how there would be western bias there.

Just seems very odd that nobody from the city area is good enough to make the team, particularly as Ballygunner and mount sion have contested the last 2 minor county finals.

Stopitwillya

thesaturdayman wrote: »

The 2018 minor team is now the u20 team & they actually beat tipp 2.13 to 3.9 in Munster championship - so all things being equal these lads should be well up to beating tipp tomorrow

Ah jaysus. I really despair sometimes when I read posts like this one. People posting in this forum who clearly don't have a clue about GAA.

The 2018 minor team are now under 18 in 2019. They will be under 20 in 2021.

The under 20 team playing tomorrow was minor (under 18 as it was 2 years ago as opposed to under 17 now) in 2017 and got hammered in every match they played.
So don't be expecting too much from this group.

Mastermcgrath

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Ah jaysus. I really despair sometimes when I read posts like this one. People posting in this forum who clearly don't have a clue about GAA.

The 2018 minor team are now under 18 in 2019. They will be under 20 in 2021.

The under 20 team playing tomorrow was minor (under 18 as it was 2 years ago as opposed to under 17 now) in 2017 and got hammered in every match they played.
So don't be expecting too much from this group.

Most of that infamous minor group has not been selected fir this u20 group and rightly so as they obviously weren’t good enough. It’s a young u20 team with most having another year or 2 in the age group. It’s looking to the future and the right approach. We will be up against it tomorrow night but will be strong more experienced team next year

Christy Browne

JesusRef wrote: »

How many players from the following clubs

My Sion, Ballygunnar, DLS, Passage and Dungarvan

Are U20 and have played and impressed at senior club level in the last two years?

PJ Fanning, Luke O’Brien, Alan Kirwan, Jack Meaney and Evan McGrath (maybe overage?) have all started regularly for Mount Sion over the last couple of years and done well.

Kevin Mahony from Ballygunner maybe a bit too young?

JesusRef

Christy Browne wrote: »

PJ Fanning, Luke O’Brien, Alan Kirwan, Jack Meaney and Evan McGrath (maybe overage?) have all started regularly for Mount Sion over the last couple of years and done well.

Kevin Mahony from Ballygunner maybe a bit too young?

Cheers for that, if guys are doing well playing senior club then it seems very strange to have no city representation.

Especially as it seems to be a very young U20 team (a lot of last year's U17s playing)

deiseach

The selectors picked what they think is the best team. How do I know this? Because it's 2019 and the East-West bollocks exists only on this thread.

thesaturdayman

deiseach wrote: »

The selectors picked what they think is the best team. How do I know this? Because it's 2019 and the East-West bollocks exists only on this thread.

U20 team aside.

The east west bollocks does exist.

Gavlor

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Assume that u20 team is a joke team??

He’s a roanmore man if I’m thinking of the right chap. Strange team to throw out

Waternut

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Assume that u20 team is a joke team??

So who would you start then??

thesaturdayman

its a damning indictment of the state of our county when lads now at 18-19 are deciding they would rather not play / make themselves available, go travelling & in some cases are injured to be fair. The first two issues are major concern to me.

Im not suggesting its a political thing, it is obviously not. If it was interpreted that way i retract it. Iv no doubt the mgmt are picking best team available, its the lads that are not there and the reasons behind it are of concern to me.

Imo feeds into a wider malaise within the GAA locally.

ill answer the question as best i can without knowing naming individual players;

DLS College Harty cup team (u19 age) were beaten in a semi final of comp this year - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel)

Ballygunner are minor champions in 2018 - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel)

Ballygunner are minor champions in 2017 - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel)

Mount Sion were beaten in the 2018 minor A final - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel)

Mount Sion were beaten in the 2017 minor A final - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel)

DLS won the minor A in 2016 - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel) beating Ballgunner in final

Roanmore won the minor B in 2016 no players on first 15 (dont know re panel) beating Ballyduff Upper (also no players on first 15) in final

So without naming anyone and factoring everything in, i find it amazing / bizarre that there isnt a player from the above huge clubs that can start tonight.

There seems to be legit reasons / excuses, but im not buying those, why are lads choosing at such a young age not to bother?

That is the pressing question for me.

PTH2009

Best of the luck to the team tonight

PTH2009

This is a 2 year project according to Gough

JesusRef

The manager interviewed before the game said that if it wasn't for travel and if every player made themselves available - that there would be more city players on the team tonight...

A long evening for Waterford this evening I fear

Motivator

Reading about Laois today and how they mix both a relaxed and hard at it approach to their season made me cringe thinking of Derek McGrath flogging our lads on Christmas morning. I wouldn’t be a fan of his by any stretch of the imagination but good luck to Eddie Brennan. He’s got everyone involved in Laois to buy in to what he’s trying to do. Fairly depressing looking at us at the moment compared to them.

Big game for the u20s, hope they do themselves proud. It’s a big ask against an apparently strong Tipp team so good luck to them.

PTH2009

Some wides in this game already

Mastermcgrath

thesaturdayman wrote: »

its a damning indictment of the state of our county when lads now at 18-19 are deciding they would rather not play / make themselves available, go travelling & in some cases are injured to be fair. The first two issues are major concern to me.

Im not suggesting its a political thing, it is obviously not. If it was interpreted that way i retract it. Iv no doubt the mgmt are picking best team available, its the lads that are not there and the reasons behind it are of concern to me.

Imo feeds into a wider malaise within the GAA locally.

ill answer the question as best i can without knowing naming individual players;

DLS College Harty cup team (u19 age) were beaten in a semi final of comp this year - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel)

Ballygunner are minor champions in 2018 - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel)

Ballygunner are minor champions in 2017 - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel)

Mount Sion were beaten in the 2018 minor A final - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel)

Mount Sion were beaten in the 2017 minor A final - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel)

DLS won the minor A in 2016 - no players on first 15 (dont know re panel) beating Ballgunner in final

Roanmore won the minor B in 2016 no players on first 15 (dont know re panel) beating Ballyduff Upper (also no players on first 15) in final

So without naming anyone and factoring everything in, i find it amazing / bizarre that there isnt a player from the above huge clubs that can start tonight.

There seems to be legit reasons / excuses, but im not buying those, why are lads choosing at such a young age not to bother?

That is the pressing question for me.

Maybe you should’ve have checked the panel firstvbefore writing all that. All the teams you named above are represented on the panel

PTH2009

Starting too get away from us now. Simply not good enough

Interesting Derek there will some of his old backroom team

hoosier_daddy

Ref is very fond of his whistle, no link up play between the forwards and we are hitting in aimless ball. Half back line for tipp cleaning up

mickmackmcgoo

Johnnie loves giving yellow cards . Yet another Waterford team devoid of ability to win a ball in the forward line. Some of the passing has been abysmal . One good score from play was as it good as it got . Michael kiely starved of possession. Same Sh*t different team

spideyman92

Motivator wrote: »

Reading about Laois today and how they mix both a relaxed and hard at it approach to their season made me cringe thinking of Derek McGrath flogging our lads on Christmas morning. I wouldn’t be a fan of his by any stretch of the imagination but good luck to Eddie Brennan. He’s got everyone involved in Laois to buy in to what he’s trying to do. Fairly depressing looking at us at the moment compared to them.

Big game for the u20s, hope they do themselves proud. It’s a big ask against an apparently strong Tipp team so good luck to them.

Derek flogging them? The way people go on about him being too nice, you'd swear he used to be tucking them into bed at night. He used to let them relax and drink after wins too.

Also find it funny that Brennan used to give out about Waterford's use of the sweeper for years and now this year has found success using it.

PTH2009

Jesus

mullinr2

My god Waterford hurling is a joke at the moment

deisedude

This is pathetic

Deisegodeo

Another shambles. This is an absolute hammering

IanVW

Woeful stuff! In all grades this year and last! To say otherwise is delusional!

hoosier_daddy

The manager said this is a two year plan? If he’s left stay on after this it sums up everything wrong with Waterford

emergingstar

What’s going on with Waterford hurling at the moment at all?

mullinr2

Ye can hardly call yourselves a dual county either. Ye devote as much time to hurling as Kilkenny does. Shocking year for Waterford

JesusRef

Waterford Hurling is circling the drain

liogairmhordain

Ridiculous that Tom Barron hasn't been taken off with another Munster semi-final to play later in the week

JesusRef

Even after producing some good underage teams we are being cut adrift at senior level in Munster.

What hope have we with nothing coming through?

This Munster round robin could be an absolute disaster for Waterford over the next few years

5948ai

I heard something here about two year plans but by god that was tough viewing this evening!

PTH2009

Disaster of a night

Hard to see a light at the end of the tunnel

munsterlegend

It’s a strong Tipp team to be fair and themselves and Cork are probably a level above. Cork were hammered by Clare a few years ago so things can turn around quickly.

EYEBALLSOUT

There you have it- a 22 point defeat!

Aside from players, mgmt, etc..etc.. we have to look at how these players are being coached. It seems to me that every club is buying into this tippy tappy Hurling to the detriment of being able to win our own ball!!
Waterford this year in Senior Hurling and Ballygunner v Ballyhale this year are proof of what i am saying. We have devised a short cut to try and win games which is most teams plan B.
As a hurling man, who played at a reasonable level for club and county, its sickening to watch the direction Waterford hurling is going.
Time to open our eyes because tonight is not good enough. This is not a pop at the players or mgmt because what happened tonight is endemic of what is going on with Waterford hurling at nearly every level.

Absolutely sickening. Co board are asleep at the wheel. Come in out of the fog!!!

mickmackmcgoo

EYEBALLSOUT wrote:

Absolutely sickening. Co board are asleep at the wheel. Come in out of the fog!!!

Spot on there . Can't blame management tonight they can only pick what's in front of them. Poorly coached players will always be found out despite them giving their all tonight. Sad thing is nothing will change , The board have been inept a long time and lots of clubs are apathetic towards county teams anyway. The club's elect these cretins and the East west thing will never change. Contrast this to our camogie teams who have improved in all aspects over the last few years

mountgomery burns

mullinr2 wrote: »

Ye can hardly call yourselves a dual county either. Ye devote as much time to hurling as Kilkenny does. Shocking year for Waterford

Ah come on there is no comparison between football in Kilkenny and Waterford. James Stephens gave a walkover in a county football semi final 2 years ago, think they had to win one game to get there.

There's at least 30 football clubs in Waterford, about 6 in Kilkenny? Our u20s just beat Clare, our minors had a win a loss and a draw this year in their three games. There's loads wrong with it and it's in a bad place at inter county level, but it is not comparable to Kilkenny who simply have less than zero interest in the sport.

Hurlers are another matter...terrible year

Deisedozzer

Unfortunately this was arguably the most predictable result of the summer from a Waterford hurling perspective. A lot of this team were part of the minor panel in 2017 which was possibly the weakest of the last ten years and a number of that same management team are also involved with the group now.

I have been saying it for the past two years, there are 2-3 basic errors that are being replicated by our teams at all levels which is a huge concern;

1. Aimless hail Mary high balls into small forwards, when we have time on the ball, as our preferred option. Sheer madness

2. No running off the shoulder in the midfield area. Our midfielders seem to be playing like strangers who don't know each other rather than as a unit. We have been cleaned out at midfield in every game this year

3. Bullet passes being played along the ground to teammates. I don't see any other team doing this, it is crazy and I don't know who is behind it. The pressure it puts on the receiving player to have to control and turn in one movement makes no sense. Contrast this with the beautiful passes to hand which Tipp and Limerick favour or even the ball which hops in front of the forward at hand level. If Patrick Curran or the Bennetts had this sort of service they could do real damage rather than contesting aimless high balls against tall defenders

Mastermcgrath

Everyone who knows hurling knew about this poor group since u14. The armchair fans seeing them on TV for the first time tonight of course are shocked and outraged but let them off I say

I commend the management for how they approached it, they disbanded with many of the lads who were not good enough at minor 2 years ago and instead went with a young team with many from last years u17s. Today was a tough one for them but these lads will be a year older and stronger next year and we will have the base of a seriously competitive u20 team. I hope the management are given a second year to see it through.

Deisefacts

EYEBALLSOUT wrote: »

There you have it- a 22 point defeat!

Aside from players, mgmt, etc..etc.. we have to look at how these players are being coached. It seems to me that every club is buying into this tippy tappy Hurling to the detriment of being able to win our own ball!!
Waterford this year in Senior Hurling and Ballygunner v Ballyhale this year are proof of what i am saying. We have devised a short cut to try and win games which is most teams plan B.
As a hurling man, who played at a reasonable level for club and county, its sickening to watch the direction Waterford hurling is going.
Time to open our eyes because tonight is not good enough. This is not a pop at the players or mgmt because what happened tonight is endemic of what is going on with Waterford hurling at nearly every level.

Absolutely sickening. Co board are asleep at the wheel. Come in out of the fog!!!

You should get your hands on the scores from the recent u-16/15/14 Munster tournaments in hurling. Comprehensive beatings by divisional squads from other counties. The decline in underage football started in 2007/8 when the beatings started at minor/u-21 grade and now 10 years later it has started in hurling and no changes have been made to coaching and games within the county to arrest this slide. We are well and truly on our way to becoming the new Offaly and I predict we'll pass them out on our way down as they've started restructuring their underage 3yrs ago

People on here have been deriding thesaturdayman on here with the last few months but all he has been trying to do is highlight what’s going on at underage he this county. Fair play to him


The county bard coaching and games officer needs to be replaced immediately and never let go for another position within the county board again. Also the gentleman that was there before him needs to resign from his position too as it looks like he didn’t do his job either. Coaching and games needs to be restructured from the top to the bottom immediately. It’s not fit for porpoise and all they seem to be doing is trying to fill development squad managements from year to year to have their box ticked for when croke park come calling. There is no player pathway for a player from u-14 to u-20. No database on what his strengths are or what he needs to work on year on year. How many times over the last few months have we seen trials for different age groups being conducted because of some new management team being put in place. From what I can see looking at the coaching and games of other counties we are the only ones carrying out trials because the new management teams don’t know anything about the group they are inheriting.

Do you know what, I’m going to give up because I’ll get shouted down for highlighting these things and being accused of a bias towards the county board. **** the whole lot

Davys Fits

What ever happened to marking your man in Waterford hurling?
Between the seniors and u20's Ive never seen so many players standing around waiting for a breaking ball. It seems tactics have overcome some of the basics of the game.

_blaaz

Davys Fits wrote: »

What ever happened to marking your man in Waterford hurling?
Between the seniors and u20's Ive never seen so many players standing around waiting for a breaking ball. It seems tactics have overcome some of the basics of the game.

Its infurinating....we complain about beating/tie ourselves up in knots over tactics etc.....but think nothing of opposition players finding themselves free with noone within 5-6 yards of em in walsh park,tightest pitchbin the country



We will we be in 10 years....the futures grim from where im.sitting

Deisegodeo

Yet another disheartening evening for Waterford hurling. There really does seem to be something badly wrong at the moment, we are taking beatings right left and centre lately.

It said in the programme for today's game that the u20 management team was only appointed in February with preparations beginning in May. I find that absolutely incredible that such an attitude to the this championship would exist, we won the u21 All Ireland in 2016 and now 3 years later we seem like we couldnt be bothered even preparing properly for this important competition.

thesaturdayman

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Maybe you should’ve have checked the panel firstvbefore writing all that. All the teams you named above are represented on the panel

This aged well.

Evidently I put it up before the game. I was training tonight and a few of lads who should be on the panel told me that the Dls or Ballygunner u20s would hammer the county side that played tonight.

A number of lads didn’t make themselves available; that’s true

What is also true is a number of lads were not approached

Double with the county board tying the mgmts hands in terms of limiting training sessions

Factor all these in and what hope do you have?

I’d put it to you, what manager worth his salt would accept these conditions? One that is a nice lapdog to county board and happy that he has another gig for next year I would suggest

Stopitwillya

thesaturdayman wrote: »

I was training tonight and a few of lads who should be on the panel told me that the Dls or Ballygunner u20s would hammer the county side that played tonight.

Ah give over would you putting more crap up. This beats last night's post.
Dls and ballygunner combined wouldn't come near the team named tonight. Sure Mick Mahony was a selector and there was ballygunner lads on the bench. As another poster stated please name the players you think should have started.

One or two prospects on the team beaten tonight, namely Daly, Billy Power and Kiely, but this team has been extremely poor all the way up and tonight was just a continuance of that.

However, if what you say that this team first got together in May, then that is just not good enough and that is not fair on the young lads who played tonight.

thesaturdayman

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Ah give over would you putting more crap up. This beats last night's post.
Dls and ballygunner combined wouldn't come near the team named tonight. Sure Mick Mahony was a selector and there was ballygunner lads on the bench. As another poster stated please name the players you think should have started.

One or two prospects on the team beaten tonight, namely Daly, Billy Power and Kiely, but this team has been extremely poor all the way up and tonight was just a continuance of that.

However, if what you say that this team first got together in May, then that is just not good enough and that is not fair on the young lads who played tonight.

I’m telling you what a number of intercounty hurlers past and present said yes. They were of that opinion & they have played against and managed teams that play in the grade we are talking about, so I’ll take their judgement over yours, thanks.

One Ballygunner lad had concussion / missed a load of training & the other was shoe horned into being sub keeper. There would be about another 5 from the club ability wise should be on it but aren’t for previous reasons outlined.

Early May they got together yes were told there wasn’t the budget to start earlier.

Stopitwillya

I’m telling you what a number of intercounty hurlers past and present said yes. They were of that opinion & they have played against and managed teams that play in the grade we are talking about, so I’ll take their judgement over yours, thanks.

One Ballygunner lad had concussion / missed a load of training & the other was shoe horned into being sub keeper. There would be about another 5 from the club ability wise should be on it but aren’t for previous reasons outlined.

Early May they got together yes were told there wasn’t the budget to start earlier.[/quote]

Well they we're talking nonsense.
2 years ago, when this team was minor Ballygunner had just one starter Tadgh Foley, who was on the panel tonight.

Again please name the 5 Ballygunner players whom you said should be on it.

thesaturdayman

I haven’t named anyone to date & im not going to start now.

Look up who the best players were at minor & who were excellent in most recent senior champ game. There is your starting point.

PTH2009

I wonder was Fanning and Co actually at the game ?? The cameras showed Derek, Cork under 21 boss (I think) and Liam Sheedy

Any news on the senior management actually ???

Noticed a few weeks ago Fergal Hartley is a selector with Ballygunner now