Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

emergingstar

Stopitwillya wrote: »

They are looking to peak for championship id say. Under system brought in last year you are not eliminated even if you lose all your group games. I think the groups only decide what stage and who you play. I could be wrong but last year Ballyduff Lower lost all their group games, won their first championship game (against ferrybank who had done well in the group stages but ended up in a relegation final) played around September and won another after that to actually get to the semi final before losing to eventual winners Clonea.

A stupid system

is it an open draw for the QFs

tommylad1212

emergingstar wrote: »

is it an open draw for the QFs

Think its top 2 from each group, rest cross over and play each other , makes no difference if you loose all your group games

deiseach

I'm looking forward to the day a club says they gave a walkover for non-genuine reasons.

Gardner

tommylad1212 wrote: »

Think its top 2 from each group, rest cross over and play each other , makes no difference if you loose all your group games

crazy system!

always thought the top team from each group went into eastern semi and 2nd and 3rd placed team in each group would then play the Q/F. makes a whole mockery of the championship groups if its an open draw after all the games are played

Gardner

deiseach wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the day a club says they gave a walkover for non-genuine reasons.

what was gaultier's exact excuse?

emergingstar

tommylad1212 wrote: »

Think its top 2 from each group, rest cross over and play each other , makes no difference if you loose all your group games

Think its top 3 in one group and top 2 in the other straight into QFS

Other 6 teams have a cross over playoff to determine last 3 QF spots

just wondering is QF then just a straight open draw or will it be seeded somehow

deiseach

Gardner wrote: »

what was gaultier's exact excuse?

Dunno, but I'm sure it's a genuine one so don't you go a-worrying yourself unnecessarily over the details.

Gardner

deiseach wrote: »

Dunno, but I'm sure it's a genuine one so don't you go a-worrying yourself unnecessarily over the details.

not worrying myself at all

deiseach

Gardner wrote: »

not worrying myself at all

I was being facetious, I'm sure you're not. But I'm also sure the genuine reasons will be treated like the third secret of Fatima.

upthedeise16

Gardner wrote: »

what was gaultier's exact excuse?

“Unable to field”

Jerry Atrick

Gardner wrote: »

what was gaultier's exact excuse?

Ran out of sun cream for the extended panel...couldn't have chaps getting burnt in Lemybrien. What does it matter really? Top 4 teams in the QF...rest in round robin. Simples.

upthedeise16

Jerry Atrick wrote: »

Ran out of sun cream for the extended panel...couldn't have chaps getting burnt in Lemybrien. What does it matter really? Top 4 teams in the QF...rest in round robin. Simples.

There’s only 3 groups

tommylad1212

upthedeise16 wrote: »

There’s only 3 groups

Best runner up

Pogue eile

Pogue eile wrote: »

Not from Waterford but I would respectfully suggest that it is a mixture of all 3, together with an incompetent County Board and throw in a historical divide within the county and the last few performances are what you are left with.

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Not sure about this historical divide business now to be honest with you. There is no rivalry worth talking about in the club championship at the moment, one team all dominating. A lot of the bitterness was between city clubs, but only Ballygunner has significant representation on the team. As many Lismore, Tourin, Fourmilewater, Dungarvan, Clashmore and Ballysaggart players have played as De La Salle and Mount Sion in this year's championship.

None of those clubs would have been prominent when club rivalries causing rifts at County level would have been at its worst, save maybe Lismore. Doesn't seem to influence Jack Prendergast all the same!

Having read the last ten pages of this thread, do you still contend that there is no divide in Waterfrod Hurling??

Jerry Atrick

upthedeise16 wrote: »

There’s only 3 groups

Do your homework before responding lad...

mountgomery burns

Pogue eile wrote: »

Having read the last ten pages of this thread, do you still contend that there is no divide in Waterfrod Hurling??

I took it you were talking about bitter club rivalries causing dissension in the Senior setup? I dont think that is a problem at all. On the other issue, I personally cannot see that as an issue as theres a broad mix between east and west in the Senior panel. The days of perceived bias are long gone at that level.

I see the comment quoted talk about a County divide, but I think you had another comment about club rivalries akin to what many claimed held Galway back for so long? Open to correction on that one.

This thread is contrary at the best of times, would not for a second take it as a mirror into GAA affairs in Waterford.

Pogue eile

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I took it you were talking about bitter club rivalries causing dissension in the Senior setup? I dont think that is a problem at all. On the other issue, I personally cannot see that as an issue as theres a broad mix between east and west in the Senior panel. The days of perceived bias are long gone at that level.

I see the comment quoted talk about a County divide, but I think you had another comment about club rivalries akin to what many claimed held Galway back for so long? Open to correction on that one.

This thread is contrary at the best of times, would not for a second take it as a mirror into GAA affairs in Waterford.

Ah yeah, I think we may have got our wires crossed, I actually meant the east/west divide, divide maybe is not the correct word, but there is a clear distinction made which suggests there is a problem. The Galway one is slightly differnet in that it manifiested itself on teh field, just like Laois coincidently. But a divide in the boardrooms can be a lot more damaging that one on the field.

Your last sentence could apply to all counties and all forms of social media to be fair

tommylad1212

emergingstar wrote: »

Think its top 3 in one group and top 2 in the other straight into QFS

Other 6 teams have a cross over playoff to determine last 3 QF spots

just wondering is QF then just a straight open draw or will it be seeded somehow

The 3rd team in the group of six will go to 1/4 but wont be seeded,

upthedeise16

Jerry Atrick wrote: »

Do your homework before responding lad...

So they can’t choose a best runner up as both Rathgormack and Gaultier finished 2nd in their groups with 4 points each and now scoring difference cannot be used because of the walkover. Don’t think you’re fully grasping the concept of best runner-up.
I hope common sense prevails and Rathgormack are given the best runner up spot as they have a far superior scoring difference despite the walkover.

tommylad1212

upthedeise16 wrote: »

So they can’t choose a best runner up as both Rathgormack and Gaultier finished 2nd in their groups with 4 points each and now scoring difference cannot be used because of the walkover. Don’t think you’re fully grasping the concept of best runner-up.
I hope common sense prevails and Rathgormack are given the best runner up spot as they have a far superior scoring difference despite the walkover.

Rathgormack gone though, doing open draw for 3rd teams

mountgomery burns

The Waterford championships are the equivalent of a summer camp where everyone gets a medal. Farcical stuff

Jerry Atrick

upthedeise16 wrote: »

So they can’t choose a best runner up as both Rathgormack and Gaultier finished 2nd in their groups with 4 points each and now scoring difference cannot be used because of the walkover. Don’t think you’re fully grasping the concept of best runner-up.
I hope common sense prevails and Rathgormack are given the best runner up spot as they have a far superior scoring difference despite the walkover.

As I've said earlier on the thread...common sense would see Rathgormack go through which has happened thankfully. Gold star for your homework upthedeise.

Jerry Atrick

tommylad1212 wrote: »

Rathgormack gone though, doing open draw for 3rd teams

All eight teams left in round robin are in an open draw? Not what happened last year as there was reefing for teams who finished 2nd/best 3rd in group.

Mastermcgrath

Any update on Fanning. Can we assume that as he didn’t resign immediately after the **** show that was the Munster championship this year he intends to hang around?

TheScoringGoal

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Any update on Fanning. Can we assume that as he didn’t resign immediately after the **** show that was the Munster championship this year he intends to hang around?

I stand open to correction but I thought he said that he intended to stay on for another year? So really the only way he won't be in place is if the players decided they don't want him and the board support that. I haven't heard anything further from the camp since the Cork game. Obviously prior to that there were widespread reports of unrest.

razorronan

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Any update on Fanning. Can we assume that as he didn’t resign immediately after the **** show that was the Munster championship this year he intends to hang around?

Hopefully the board are sounding out possible successors to Fanning at the minute. There wasn't a stampede to take over the job a year ago so i'd imagine the board would like to know they have somebody lined up before acting. McGrath, Hartley, Queally and Power all realistic successors but don't think many fans would be thrilled to have any of them.

BazBox

razorronan wrote: »

Hopefully the board are sounding out possible successors to Fanning at the minute. There wasn't a stampede to take over the job a year ago so i'd imagine the board would like to know they have somebody lined up before acting. McGrath, Hartley, Queally and Power all realistic successors but don't think many fans would be thrilled to have any of them.

I reckon Fanning will stay on, and if he didn't then I would hope his successor is from outside the county

thesultan

BazBox wrote: »

I reckon Fanning will stay on, and if he didn't then I would hope his successor is from outside the county[/quote
Managementis staying on.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Looks he's staying on.

So far only Brian O'Halloran has retired?

cul beag

Definitely there’s unrest amongst the senior panelists and a lot have stated they will not play under the current regime. But don’t want Mcgrath back either.

Deiseen

cul beag wrote: »

Definitely there’s unrest amongst the senior panelists and a lot have stated they will not play under the current regime. But don’t want Mcgrath back either.

His position is untenable. I know its an amateur game and my heart goes it to Fanning, it was an absolute nightmare. But Waterford GAA is bigger than one man and unfortunately he should step asside as there is simply no coming back from those results.

Would it be tolerated in any other top county? No it wouldn't so why should we be any different?

_blaaz

Deiseen wrote: »

Would it be tolerated in any other top county? No it wouldn't so why should we be any different?

Theres a large amount of players should go too tbh...watched that limerick match the other night again to try get more objective view and its worse on second viewing



Mcgrath is poor and should 100% go,but its absolutely shameful.the way players carried on that day....and alot of them.dont deserve another chance on county team and as many more incounty careers on the line

Tramore84

_blaaz wrote: »

Theres a large amount of players should go too tbh...watched that limerick match the other night again to try get more objective view and its worse on second viewing



Mcgrath is poor and should 100% go,but its absolutely shameful.the way players carried on that day....and alot of them.dont deserve another chance on county team and as many more incounty careers on the line

I haven't been able to bring myself to re-watch the Limerick game. Unbelievably bad. I don't see how this squad and manager can work together next season, it was such a sh#tshow this year that it's really irrecoverable for Fanning imo. Players effectively gave up the year as early as the 1st goal in Limerick game....awful to see.

mountgomery burns

_blaaz wrote: »

Theres a large amount of players should go too tbh...watched that limerick match the other night again to try get more objective view and its worse on second viewing



Mcgrath is poor and should 100% go,but its absolutely shameful.the way players carried on that day....and alot of them.dont deserve another chance on county team and as many more incounty careers on the line

Nice Freudian slip there

Mulbert

The new manager should be allowed stay on, as long as we here on boards allow.

Obi1mikal

All the people that are calling for fannings head should put their name in the hat for the job, they seem to know better then him.

Like always in waterford things went very badly, it has to be the managers fault, no, way are any of the players the problem, sure they were sick of winning all irelands. There is more of a tradition of players revolting to get managers out then actually winning all irelands. Top county dont make me laugh, top counties win more then waterford have won in the entire history of the gaa..

Time for people to wake up and realise that waterford are where they are because that is the level that is out there and stop thinking that we have some divine right to win all irelands..

Deiseen

Obi1mikal wrote: »

All the people that are calling for fannings head should put their name in the hat for the job, they seem to know better then him.

Like always in waterford things went very badly, it has to be the managers fault, no, way are any of the players the problem, sure they were sick of winning all irelands. There is more of a tradition of players revolting to get managers out then actually winning all irelands. Top county dont make me laugh, top counties win more then waterford have won in the entire history of the gaa..

Time for people to wake up and realise that waterford are where they are because that is the level that is out there and stop thinking that we have some divine right to win all irelands..

Who said we have a divine right? I don't think anyone (or not many) would be calling for Fanning to step asside if we were beaten, even well beaten.

But we weren't, we were absolutely annihilated in every sense of the word. Even the clare defeat was completely flattering to us.

I'd throw my hat in the ring but I'd make Fanning look like Brian Cody.

Also, yes some players are to blame and you know what? That'll be up to the next manager to sort out!

mountgomery burns

Obi1mikal wrote: »

All the people that are calling for fannings head should put their name in the hat for the job, they seem to know better then him.
irelands..

When you say something as idiotic as this it discredits everything that comes after. I'm guessing he's your mate the way you've been going on, but try and find an actual reason to defend him rather than peddling the above BS.

Obi1mikal

mountgomery burns wrote: »

When you say something as idiotic as this it discredits everything that comes after. I'm guessing he's your mate the way you've been going on, but try and find an actual reason to defend him rather than peddling the above BS.

I don't have mates that is why I am on boards..

PTH2009

Fanning is stubborn and will not walk away

blueflame

The words Devil and Deep Blue Sea come to mind - if Fanning walks away now he will be remembered as a total catastrophe, with no chance of redemption , if he stays on he has a massive job to do trying to reshape a team and rebuild shattered confidence and moral.

The effects of a really good and really strong manager cannot be overstated. You look at what Cody has achieved yet again this year - at the beginning of the year they were viewed as a side with one exceptional hurler, a number of good to very good hurlers, a number of young promising hurlers and quite a few average hurlers. They were written off by many as legitimate contenders especially after the league. They were out-muscled by Dublin for much of their opening championship Game, Galway beat them on their own patch, they were almost put out of the Championship in Wexford Park and then lost a Leinster Final but yet they are now in an All Ireland Semi Final and though almost everyone expects Limerick to win it would take a brave man to bet against them.

This is the same panel he had at the start of the championship so what has changed. Cody learns from his mistake, he does not tolerate substandard effort or performances, and he does not accept excuses. He has built a mantra in Kilkenny that if you want to wear that jersey you must earn and honour it. He has no problem dropping Richie Hogan or Walter Walsh and he makes sure that every man fights for his life with aggression and determination to win every ball. They are example of good quality skill, played in a simplistic team format, with the ultimate desire to win and for me Cody is the benchmark for every manager in the country.

Look at what Eddie Brennan has achieved this year with Laois , two years ago he got almost run out of KK for loosing an U-21 championship game to Westmeath, and in just 10 months he has turned Laois into a team totally unrecognizable from this time last year. Laois had had no success whatsoever at underage over the last 10 years, they had a poor enough League this year and were well beaten by Waterford in Port Laois,. They come through a lower Division , beat a fancied Dublin and then put in a very respectable performance against Tipperary - what a transformation in just 10 months. People will say Dublin and Tipp were not focused, maybe not fully but you still have to out an beat them and when Dublin drew level as the closing stages of the game approached, Laois drove on again

The point of this post is that with the right Manager getting the right attitude and approach from his panel, things can change very quickly - please don't anyone try and tell me we don't have a far superior panel to Laois - there is no talk about 5 years plans there, while they may be looking at them, they are striving for immediate and year on year improvements . I am fed up hearing that we over estimate the quality of our players - our problem not our quality it is our attitude and approach and this starts right at the top with our County Board.

Unfortunately over the years we ( and by we I mean supporters, Management , Co Board and Players) made it become fashionable to represent your county, while in the likes of Kilkenny it is Honorable to represent your county. Love em or hate em you have to admire them.

Is Fanning the man to lead these change, unfortunately i do not think so, i do not think he is strong enough to take on the county board nor the players . He is a hard working, honest, dedicated and good hurling man, but I feel he does not possess the self belief to drive people in his way of thinking and last year will most likely have undermined this self belief further.

I honestly feel we need a new Manager and preferably would look to an outsider as i am not sure we have anyone of the strength and character needed to mould this squad into a a team with All Ireland winning potential.

Purely because of their location and success surely there are some of the Kilkenny lads who might give it a shot, and I don't necessarily mean the high profiles of DJ Carey or Henry Shefflin. What about the likes of J.J. Delaney , Jackie Tyrell, James McGarry, Michael Kavanagh - these are lads that have done it all and know what it takes to win an All Ireland and being from the South East would make travelling easier for them . By all means we can put a Hartley or someone alongsidde them but we really do need someone to drive the county who will be in a position and able to take on the factions at player and county board level.

hardybuck

I'd love to know how they do it in Kilkenny, perhaps it starts in the clubs, but they seem to consistently produce tough players who scrap for every type of ball. If a forward can't win his own ball he simply will not play.

PTH2009

The CB have enough to think about with the farce of the elections coming up and then we have the world games here

Its been stated there was a clear the air meeting the Tuesday after the Limerick game and Fanning told the squad of his plans for next year after the Cork game. He got a 2 year contract and the only thing that can happen is if he walks away before the end of the summer (imo hes stubborn for that. Getting too a league final is enough for the CB too accept hes the right man

The scary thing will that some good players will not commit with him still in charge. This is much worse than the aftermath of Mcgraths first year

Pogue eile

PTH2009 wrote: »

The CB have enough to think about with the farce of the elections coming up and then we have the world games here

Its been stated there was a clear the air meeting the Tuesday after the Limerick game and Fanning told the squad of his plans for next year after the Cork game. He got a 2 year contract and the only thing that can happen is if he walks away before the end of the summer (imo hes stubborn for that. Getting too a league final is enough for the CB too accept hes the right man

The scary thing will that some good players will not commit with him still in charge. This is much worse than the aftermath of Mcgraths first year

Not scary at all, a good clearout needed and starting with lads who think they are bigger thanWaterford hurling would beagood start, short term pain for long term gain.

Giveitfong

blueflame wrote: »

Laois had had no success whatsoever at underage over the last 10 years.

Laois actually had a handy minor team in 2013. After losing their first round game against Kilkenny they hammered Meath and Offaly before beating Wexford in the semi-final (I was at that game myself). However, although Wexford had beaten Kilkenny in an earlier round, the Cats won the Leinster final handy enough (13 points). Galway then beat Laois by 9 points in the All-Ireland quarter final. Of that team, Enda Rowland, Ryan Mullaney, Mark Kavanagh, John Lennon and Stephen Bergin are on the current Laois senior team.


Apart from that, I agree with everything you wrote in your post.

Stacksofwacks

Giveitfong wrote: »

Laois actually had a handy minor team in 2013. After losing their first round game against Kilkenny they hammered Meath and Offaly before beating Wexford in the semi-final (I was at that game myself). However, although Wexford had beaten Kilkenny in an earlier round, the Cats won the Leinster final handy enough (13 points). Galway then beat Laois by 9 points in the All-Ireland quarter final. Of that team, Enda Rowland, Ryan Mullaney, Mark Kavanagh, John Lennon and Stephen Bergin are on the current Laois senior team.


Apart from that, I agree with everything you wrote in your post.

They got to a Leinster U21 final aswell in 2012 i I think

Mulbert

Kilkenny beating Cork is hardly a massive surprise. We are talking about Kilkenny here. Cork have a flaky team and no better team to exploit that than Kilkenny.

And Laois beat Dublin. These types of results happen from time to time. A once in a blue moon result.

People read way too much into things sometimes.

But Waterford management and the players need to sort it out, whatever that means!

Im still out on whether we have enough forwards either way.

Giveitfong

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

They got to a Leinster U21 final aswell in 2012 i I think

Correct. Laois beat Dublin and Carlow to get to the final which they lost by 20 points to Kilkenny. Stephen Maher, Willie Dunphy and Neil Foyle of their current senior squad started while Ross King and Charlie Dwyer came on as subs. Kilkenny had Walter Walsh, Cillian Buckley and Ger Aylward (who scored 2-5). The Dublin team they beat included Chris Crummey, Danny Sutcliffe, John Hetherton, Mark Schutte and Eamon Dillon so they were no pushover.

blueflame

20 point and 13 point Leinster final defeats can hardly be considered success!!

The point I am making is that much of the discussion on here has centered about our lack of underage success and restructuring it when in fact our problem is what is happening at senior rank

Mastermcgrath

Pogue eile wrote: »

Not scary at all, a good clearout needed and starting with lads who think they are bigger thanWaterford hurling would beagood start, short term pain for long term gain.

I would start with Gleeson in that case. Classic example of someone who thinks he’s bigger than everything and everyone else. Plays for himself and not the team, yet supporters are supposed to accept his sulking attitude and bow down to him because he won hurler of the year? We had enough Prima Donnas in the previous team 98 to 08 who had all the talent but not the mentality and ultimately we kept failing to land the big one. Looks like we are going to have to sit and watch it all over again, either someone comes in capable of sorting him out or he goes.