Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

killbillvol2

Gardner wrote: »

Loughnane is irrelevant when it comes to discussing the modern game. next!

BS. And his quoted comments absolutely hit the nail on the head.

Deise Gael

Fair play to Loughnane for calling out the two bluffers.

But then again he's entitled to because he has been educated to 3rd level.

Jerry Atrick

Deisefacts wrote: »

I think Damien Tiernan is a great addition to WLR. Everyone should tune in today to just appreciate how good he is

What brand of balderdash is he going on with today?

_blaaz

Gardner wrote: »

Loughnane is irrelevant when it comes to discussing the modern game. next!

Looks to.me the 2 teams who play closest to tradional.are deservadly in the all ireland final....one of whom beat a stronger opponant (who played modern way) to get to it??




Theres no substitude for skills,win your own ball and work rate imo

deisedude

_blaaz wrote: »

Looks to.me the 2 teams who play closest to tradional.are deservadly in the all ireland final....one of whom beat a stronger opponant (who played modern way) to get to it??

Theres no substitude for skills,win your own ball and work rate imo

ah jaysus you will tell us Kilkenny dont do tactics now

mountgomery burns

I don't get what he means they should have focused on Wexfords clever use of Kevin Foley...alot of the analysis was about Foley sure he was the sweeper ffs. Initially the praise for how Wexford setup covered Tipps attacking threat and enabled Wexfords backs to play a running game and creat overlaps to great effect in the first half.

Then Cummins highlighted in the second half the other side of the coin where for some reason he found himself between his keeper and full back, leaving space for Tipp further out the field and not offering an option for puckouts when Wexford badly needed it. There was plenty criticize in the opening dual rant but Loughnane is as big a spoofer as any pundit I've seen in recent years so I wouldn't really pay too much heed to his two cents on the matter.

Greensoup

Was it not big Paudie Foley that was the free player Cummins was on about in last 20 minutes in behind full back line? He was number 5 I think?

BazBox

shamrockvilla wrote: »

Explain the modern game?
Fellas like McGrath and Cusack trying to make themselves relevant by talking ****e about "totality" and "innovation". McGrath failed the Waterford players with his negative tactics and in my opinion the blame of not winning an All Ireland should lie at his door. Hurling is a game whose beauty is at its best in it's simplicity and spontaneity.

LOL

_blaaz

deisedude wrote: »

ah jaysus you will tell us Kilkenny dont do tactics now

Kk do tactics better than anyone to macimise their talent imo



But lads rambling on about sweeper system etc being a saviour for waterford....we're going nowhere if we cant win the ball in the air,master basic skills (when was last time ya seen a waterford player pick up ball in full flight??)

Or putting in effort......no amount of sweeper system or tactics is going to rectify players downing tools after 20 mins



What tactics best suit waterford going forward...i remain unconvinved that a return to 12 men behind the ball and expecting maurice shanahan to run around after 4 or 5 defemders (if you had a dog chasing a frisbee at home,you wouldnt expect it to do this for 70 mins)is ever going to achieve anything

deisedude

_blaaz wrote: »

Kk do tactics better than anyone to macimise their talent imo



But lads rambling on about sweeper system etc being a saviour for waterford....we're going nowhere if we cant win the ball in the air,master basic skills (when was last time ya seen a waterford player pick up ball in full flight??)

Or putting in effort......no amount of sweeper system or tactics is going to rectify players downing tools after 20 mins



What tactics best suit waterford going forward...i remain unconvinved that a return to 12 men behind the ball and expecting maurice shanahan to run around after 4 or 5 defemders (if you had a dog chasing a frisbee at home,you wouldnt expect it to do this for 70 mins)is ever going to achieve anything

Fair enough. Dont personally want to see us with the same sweeper tactic either. While it did steady the ship at the time and got us to a certain level McGrath didnt evolve it enough to overcome the attacking shortcomings of the system and we had no plan b when things werent working

mistermiyagi

Well, he's gone lads.

JeffKenna

Rumours were true after all.

BazBox

Have to look outside the county for the next manager surely?

STIG83

BazBox wrote: »

Have to look outside the county for the next manager surely?

A Kilkenny man be ideal.
Look at what Eddie Brennan has done so far with Laois.

PTH2009

Seems something was right for once

Look the man gave it his all but it just didnt work out and partying ways is prob the best for both parties

Now the excitement of finding a replacement and by god it's a very important one. CB dont **** this up

thesultan

Player push surely. They'll have a lot to prove next year. Dj or colm Bonner?

Dammo

Thanks for the effort and time but yeah probably best to call it now rather than have another dismal write off of a year.

PTH2009

thesultan wrote: »

Player push surely. They'll have a lot to prove next year. Dj or colm Bonner?

DJ Carey with a strong Waterford backroom team my pick

A proper no **** taken management team have to come in

_blaaz

deisedude wrote: »

Fair enough. Dont personally want to see us with the same sweeper tactic either. While it did steady the ship at the time and got us to a certain level McGrath didnt evolve it enough to overcome the attacking shortcomings of the system and we had no plan b when things werent working

Tbh sweeper should been abandoned after munster final 2016.....tipp forever ended it...push up.and by pass it with quick ball


Its incredoulous that mcgrath kept plying that tactic for 2 more years

upthedeise16

DJ Carey, Bonnar, Sheflin, Pat Ryan be the obvious outsiders and then Hartley, Queally and Sean Power within would seem like the candidates?

friendlyfun

Paul Flynn

PTH2009

Prob get eat here but the players deserve to have a say to an extent in this decision

Its going to be some laugh here with all the rumours that will appear.

upthedeise16

PTH2009 wrote: »

Prob get eat here but the players deserve to have a say to an extent in this decision

Its going to be some laugh here with all the rumours that will appear.

I agree, not to choose the manager but to perhaps name some potential candidates that they feel would be appropriate or up to the job.

Deisefacts

BazBox wrote: »

Have to look outside the county for the next manager surely?

Whose going to look for this new manager? The 4 main officers of the board surely can’t be involved after ****e job they did in the last appointment. They too have completely lost the trust of the players. Then if they aren’t involved does thier positions within the county board become at-tenable. Do we try and appoint a new manager now and wait till December for a new board to be in place and then whatever manager is appointed decides he can’t work with the new board and leaves. Where will that leave us.

In my opinion I think we need a clean sweep at county board and development level before any new manager is appointed and it would be in the best interest of Waterford gaa if all the board members resigned enbloc immediately. If they want to run again and get re-elected, so be it. Paraic leaving doesn’t improve things,we’ve far bigger problems as witnessed at the u-20 match. I admire paraic for putting his name forward and at least trying to help his county

conor05

friendlyfun wrote: »

Paul Flynn

I hope that’s a joke

Obi1mikal

PTH2009 wrote: »

Prob get eat here but the players deserve to have a say to an extent in this decision

Quick question, what if the players get a say and the board appoint one of their recommendations and then the new managers deems some of them players not good enough to be on the panel. (This is not eating you, this is a genuine question)

ForestFire

Obi1mikal wrote: »

PTH2009 wrote: »

Prob get eat here but the players deserve to have a say to an extent in this decision

Quick question, what if the players get a say and the board appoint one of their recommendations and then the new managers deems some of them players not good enough to be on the panel. (This is not eating you, this is a genuine question)

Agree with this, no manager means no current panel and no players....


If any club players (on or not on last year's panel) want to input into the selection, it should be done through their club who then represent this to the county board...

Stopitwillya

After 3 of the 4 last managers playing glass half empty hurling I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping whoever is appointed plays a more attacking style than Davy, Derek and finally Paraic.

Secondly the county board need to appoint some ex players such as Stephen Frampton, Shiner, Fergal Hartley,etc to approach potential candidates and interview them. If the likes of Pat Flynn and Paddy Joe are in charge of the process of appointing a new manager then I'm afraid we are in for another car crash.

PTH2009

imo if the players choice is appointed than that person and his selectors have to do there research and see potential candidates through archive club footage etc

Are candidates told there the players choice ?? sure Davy wasant the first choice in 2008 after Justin left

Obi1mikal

PTH2009 wrote: »

imo if the players choice is appointed than that person and his selectors have to do there research and see potential candidates through archive club footage etc

Are candidates told there the players choice ?? sure Davy wasant the first choice in 2008 after Justin left

I attended all but one club game last week and just going to use an example so please dont bite my head off, but if watching footage of club games is the way the manager will do it, jamie barron would not get next or near the new panel, but yet he would have a say on who the new manager should be.

Mastermcgrath

Tough on Paraic personally that it didn’t work out. He put himself forward for the job when no one else seemed to want to go near it and be the first man in after McGrath. This year was always going to be a huge taskforce whoever cane in.. But it’s the right decision for Waterford hurling to step aside now.

PTH2009

Obi1mikal wrote: »

I attended all but one club game last week and just going to use an example so please dont bite my head off, but if watching footage of club games is the way the manager will do it, jamie barron would not get next or near the new panel, but yet he would have a say on who the new manager should be.

true but not all proven IC players shoot the lights out for there clubs all the time

would u rather the 2019 panel have a say or a group of CB members like last year decide and appoint some old style guy like John Myler ??. T

The usual names of Donal O Grady and John Allen are just not this eras golden managers. Happy days if there involved in someway but the game has moved on and there style is not relavent

At the under 20 game which tipp destroyed us Derek was shown on tv alongside a few of his ex coaches and that could mean something but could be just overthinking

upthedeise16

Obi1mikal wrote: »

I attended all but one club game last week and just going to use an example so please dont bite my head off, but if watching footage of club games is the way the manager will do it, jamie barron would not get next or near the new panel, but yet he would have a say on who the new manager should be.

Would you drop him though??? Not a chance. He’s playing on a struggling club side in which he is being man marked, hard to impress

mountgomery burns

Obi1mikal wrote: »

I attended all but one club game last week and just going to use an example so please dont bite my head off, but if watching footage of club games is the way the manager will do it, jamie barron would not get next or near the new panel, but yet he would have a say on who the new manager should be.

Write off our best hurler on a club game...good man

Obi1mikal

PTH2009 wrote: »

true but not all proven IC players shoot the lights out for there clubs all the time

would u rather the 2019 panel have a say or a group of CB members like last year decide and appoint some old style guy like John Myler ??. T

The usual names of Donal O Grady and John Allen are just not this eras golden managers. Happy days if there involved in someway but the game has moved on and there style is not relavent

At the under 20 game which tipp destroyed us Derek was shown on tv alongside a few of his ex coaches and that could mean something but could be just overthinking

For what it is worth I wouldn't have either the players or the county board near it, i would appoint maybe 6 former county players who are not willing to get involved in a management team, eg.. ken, Mullane, flynn, tom Feeney etc to draw up a short list and do the interviews of the interested candidates from that short list.

Just on donal og and john Allen they were the original tacticians of hurling introducing the running game, so having one involved might not be a bad idea.

The other poster regarding Jamie barron that was just an example, and granted I have only seen him once this season he was not being man marked he was marking another county player in midfield who hit him for four points, while he couldn't hit a ball out of his way.

Obi1mikal

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Write off our best hurler on a club game...good man

Not writing anyone off just using that game as example, please read my post correctly

thesaturdayman

Don’t blame the person, blame the process.

Facts are PF was about 4th choice.

Reality was no one would take on the job of Waterford senior hurling mgr / chief fundraiser for county board.

Paddy joe pat Flynn John jackson & possibly SMOR should not be left next nor near any decision making in this county, ever again. Incapable.

From fixtures to finances, structures to infrastructure we have had 25 years of this & nothing to show for it.

but if you really want to know who the next mgr will keep an eye on the betting market- pat ryan went from 20/1 into 2/5 & subsequently Mattie Kenny went from 16/1 into 1/3 - we all know what happened next.... someone in the know badly badly got their fingers burned

Straight Talker

Waterford won the minor all Ireland in 2013, an u21 all Ireland in 2016 and they were unlucky against Galway in that senior final in 2017.The talent quite clearly is there in Waterford.I think if they get the next appointment right, then Waterford will be back to their best in no time.Sure they were in the league final, a few months ago as well.Hurling really does need Waterford back competing at the top table again.

Relhcstirt

Deleted comment

cul beag

Whatever manager goes in there will have their work cut out because between players calling the shots and outside influences that can’t let go he’s on a slippery slope. While Fanning’s reign wasn’t great, some of these so called experienced players should hang their heads in shame for the way they spat the dummy out this year. In all honesty you would want to be mad to take on that job under the current circumstances.

mountgomery burns

Fairplay to Paraic Fanning. He took on the job and no doubt put in a massive effort but it didn't work out.

For whatever reason, he's acknowledged that next year won't see the dramatic change it needs to if he's to continue and that takes a lot too, to put a County before oneself because now doubt this year would have hurt a lot and I'm sure a large part of him would want to continue and prove this year to be an anomaly.

And ultimately he may yet have some vindication if the new management have a really poor year next year. Next appointment is absolutely crucial for hurling in Waterford. I think all of us as Waterford men and women just hope the team put in place ( it's far from all about one man after all) is a good one so we can see some glory once again. Up the Deise.

chinguetti

So the players are running the show, the County Board is inept (surprised they're not behind the mess at ATN yesterday) and hasn't a pot to pee into so this can only go one way i fear, not the right appointment.

Either they'll have someone in place before August is out (rush job) or it drag on for months. Personally I'd say go for Anthony Daly, might cop a few of the panel on and get things on an even keel as well. Under age needs to be sorted out as well and he has done both ends in the past. Whether he'd leave club hurling in Dublin, i doubt it.

Gardner

Will we see DMG back? Wouldn't surprise me if he was asked. He caused the rot so why not get him to fix it?

If not, nobody inside the county is good enough for the position so we must go outside but who? Need someone who has a game plan of playing the extra defender and not one of these 15 on 15 advocates still living in the 70s or 80s

mickotallow

Straight Talker wrote: »

Waterford won the minor all Ireland in 2013, an u21 all Ireland in 2016 and they were unlucky against Galway in that senior final in 2017.The talent quite clearly is there in Waterford.I think if they get the next appointment right, then Waterford will be back to their best in no time.Sure they were in the league final, a few months ago as well.Hurling really does need Waterford back competing at the top table again.

It’s this sort of attitude that has us where we are “ the talent is there”. That implies that all we need is a top class manager to lead these geniuses to the promise land. Bulls##t. A lot of these players have not progressed into Senior intercounty top class hurlers but everyone thinks we should be winning All Ireland’s with these players because of a minor and 21 success.
That doesn’t guarantee senior success. Limerick won 3 U21’s in a row in the early 2000’s but never transferred it to senior success. Back in 2014 Tipp won the Senior and 21 and everyone thought they’d dominate. But they’ve failed to live up to that billing. Same again with Clare who dominated U-21 recently and are arguably in the same boat as us.
Having players who won underage is great but not all of em make it for a variety of reasons.
If these players are so talented why have we not won a Munster match is the last two years under two different managers. I think people need to have realistic ideas about the job facing our new manager. The way we’re going we could appoint another manager that people aren’t happy with. Start the negative cycle again before a ball is hit that these “talented “ players deserve better etc. At what point do people start looking at the players attitude and realise the majority threw in the towel last year instead of dying on their sword because they weren’t happy with the manager. That soft undercurrent is not likely to win anything in the near future no matter who the next manager is.

deise08

Still not sure of my feelings on it yet...
Credit to him for stepping up and stepping down without dragging the whole sorry saga out.

Was out at the GAAWorldGames panel in H and H motors on Wednesday which was a brilliant evening with John Mullane, Anthony Daly, Jackie Tyrell and Dessie Dolan. Jackie gave a great opinion on the Sunday Game 'analysis'

The president of the GAA was there, but it was sad to not see the county management there but there was a huge elephant in the room when it came to county hurling.

Overall the world games were a fantastic affair with great matches. The WIT did a great job, and here's hoping they return for the next world games.

_blaaz

deise08 wrote: »

Still not sure of my feelings on it yet...
Credit to him for stepping up and stepping down without dragging the whole sorry saga out.

Was out at the GAAWorldGames panel in H and H motors on Wednesday which was a brilliant evening with John Mullane, Anthony Daly, Jackie Tyrell and Dessie Dolan. Jackie gave a great opinion on the Sunday Game 'analysis'

What did jackie tyrell say??

friendlyfun

conor05 wrote: »

I hope that’s a joke

Why not?

hurler on de ditch

Gardner wrote: »

Will we see DMG back? Wouldn't surprise me if he was asked. He caused the rot so why not get him to fix it?

If not, nobody inside the county is good enough for the position so we must go outside but who? Need someone who has a game plan of playing the extra defender and not one of these 15 on 15 advocates still living in the 70s or 80s

jesus h christ

friendlyfun

Gerry Ryan would be good

Stopitwillya

Gardner wrote: »

Will we see DMG back? Wouldn't surprise me if he was asked. He caused the rot so why not get him to fix it?

If not, nobody inside the county is good enough for the position so we must go outside but who? Need someone who has a game plan of playing the extra defender and not one of these 15 on 15 advocates still living in the 70s or 80s

Ye cause if something is a failure, doing it all again the very same way is guaranteed to bring success.