Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

hardybuck

thesultan wrote: »

How much of an effect was the abolished u21 grade in the county. Only u19 now. Crazy decision for me..

What was the logic for this move?

U20 would seem like the obvious age to bring it in line with the intercounty, and to give young lads coming out of minor to play for two years at their age group while developing. It also gives clubs another years worth of lads to make up a team.

Straight knockout was always a feature at U21 and always a farce. Teams would be thrown out on the field at fairly short notice in a lot of clubs, and most teams only get 1-2 fixtures.

If you're looking to encourage guys to play other sports, or worse to just give up sport generally during this important stage of their lives, these structures are ideal.

Obi1mikal

Straight knockout was always a feature at U21 and always a farce. Teams would be thrown out on the field at fairly short notice in a lot of clubs, and most teams only get 1-2 fixtures.

If you're looking to encourage guys to play other sports, or worse to just give up sport generally during this important stage of their lives, these structures are ideal.[/QUOTE]



Exactly and if there is a need to continue to hold a straight knockout competition have it at u23 maybe, thus keeping some lads a little longer and have them more physically ready for adult hurling.

I really can not get my head around having a straight club knock out competition when there is an inter county competition directly one year above.

mountgomery burns

I recall the u21 hurling county finals a few years ago being played the following summer. Think it might have been 2016 as that year Waterford had a replay in the league, and the extended run in both the senior and u21 inter county championship which meant a backlog for the senior county championship and no space for the u21 in between. When you think about it, there was a max 4 games to be played and they took 18 months to play.

Minor also puts the thing on ice as clubs won't play without inter county players. Poor scheduling and structures can't be the only answer to that problem, there are serious difficulties at that particular age group to have proper club competitions just down to the overlap between three different inter county age groups.

Obi1mikal

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I recall the u21 hurling county finals a few years ago being played the following summer. Think it might have been 2016 as that year Waterford had a replay in the league, and the extended run in both the senior and u21 inter county championship which meant a backlog for the senior county championship and no space for the u21 in between. When you think about it, there was a max 4 games to be played and they took 18 months to play.

Minor also puts the thing on ice as clubs won't play without inter county players. Poor scheduling and structures can't be the only answer to that problem, there are serious difficulties at that particular age group to have proper club competitions just down to the overlap between three different inter county age groups.

Totally understand that, my point is that u16 and u18 were ran last year with little fuss and by all accounts two very good and competitive championships. (I am only speaking about the A championships as I am not fully sure how the other divisions played out). So when they changed to u17 and u19 they could of ran two proper championships again. Just provisionally use the same dates and fixtures as the previous year and run an u23 straight knockout competition later in the year if needs be.

thesaturdayman

hardybuck wrote: »

Forget about the county team for a minute, because you're flushing that money down the drain unless you're looking after the club scene too.

Now obviously the county team going well gets young lads interested in GAA, but thesaturdayman raised valid points regarding the state of the club scene.

Why are clubs struggling financially and why are teams giving walkovers like this?

Why are clubs struggling? Few sentences based on my experiences;

Levies add 15-20% running cost to clubs 2000 for a senior club is 2 big fundraisers annually on bailing out the incompetent and inefficient entity that is Waterford county board

Lack of coverage in media locally means hard sell to sponsors, coverage analysis and commentary by so call “journalists” is biased, egotistical and agenda driven for majority of times.

The board itself also does little to help promote games on a Sunday night for eg 50 miles away for clubs, blatntly robbing people who want to attend multiple games instead of weekend passes, not enough double headers, not utilizing carriganore or Walsh park for senior competitions

Cost of insurance is one thing but cost of entering competitions is majorly off putting - 1000+ for an u21 team that gets one game if and probably will be beaten if a weaker club, hardly worth it especially if can barely field some do the cost benefit analysis on a short term basis but really long term killing themselves this is driven by divisional and county boards

Scheduling of games ie minor football starting in feb in muck and ****e. Scandalous tbh.

A vicious circle as you can see & those in positions of responsibility in my opinion 1. Can’t see the woods from the trees as they are removed from clubs so long and are career administrators, 2. Don’t want to listen or engage with people like me and others 3. Think everything is a personal attack driven by their own egos 4. Don’t care - if they did they’d have had audiences with clubs

mickotallow

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Why are clubs struggling? Few sentences based on my experiences;

Levies add 15-20% running cost to clubs 2000 for a senior club is 2 big fundraisers annually on bailing out the incompetent and inefficient entity that is Waterford county board

Lack of coverage in media locally means hard sell to sponsors, coverage analysis and commentary by so call “journalists” is biased, egotistical and agenda driven for majority of times.

The board itself also does little to help promote games on a Sunday night for eg 50 miles away for clubs, blatntly robbing people who want to attend multiple games instead of weekend passes, not enough double headers, not utilizing carriganore or Walsh park for senior competitions

Cost of insurance is one thing but cost of entering competitions is majorly off putting - 1000+ for an u21 team that gets one game if and probably will be beaten if a weaker club, hardly worth it especially if can barely field some do the cost benefit analysis on a short term basis but really long term killing themselves this is driven by divisional and county boards

Scheduling of games ie minor football starting in feb in muck and ****e. Scandalous tbh.

A vicious circle as you can see & those in positions of responsibility in my opinion 1. Can’t see the woods from the trees as they are removed from clubs so long and are career administrators, 2. Don’t want to listen or engage with people like me and others 3. Think everything is a personal attack driven by their own egos 4. Don’t care - if they did they’d have had audiences with clubs

Another huge factor is the money involved in training a team now. Young lads these days can’t scratch themselves without looking for a physio. Never mind training a team. That takes up huge time, effort and commitment. The money in is physios for hurling teams.
Also I heard the county board giving out about their training costs increasing this year because the Waterford team went back training earlier this year because they finished so early in 2018 and because the league start was brought forward. What about the club team that has the expenses of their team going back training in Jan for one match in April and continue training to September? This is the majority of costs for every club I would imagine. Physios, trainers, sliotars, referees, lights, electricity etc. All adds up when teams are training.
County board never think of that when they force levies onto clubs and when PJR says “that the clubs are the county board”. Funny then that when clubs ask for a definitive club calendar or for weekends off cos heaven forbid players decide to have a life while waiting months for a game, they get a firm no.

upthedeise16

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Anyone know the roll of honour for the Tony Forristal lads? When did this tournament begin?

A list of all winners and the minor champions 4 years later

thesaturdayman

upthedeise16 wrote: »

A list of all winners and the minor champions 4 years later

Great stat. No correlation so!!

Mulbert

The list is wrong.

Stopitwillya

thesaturdayman wrote: »

hardybuck wrote: »

Why are clubs struggling? Few sentences based on my experiences;

Levies add 15-20% running cost to clubs 2000 for a senior club is 2 big fundraisers annually on bailing out the incompetent and inefficient entity that is Waterford county board

Lack of coverage in media locally means hard sell to sponsors, coverage analysis and commentary by so call “journalists” is biased, egotistical and agenda driven for majority of times.

The board itself also does little to help promote games on a Sunday night for eg 50 miles away for clubs, blatntly robbing people who want to attend multiple games instead of weekend passes, not enough double headers, not utilizing carriganore or Walsh park for senior competitions

Cost of insurance is one thing but cost of entering competitions is majorly off putting - 1000+ for an u21 team that gets one game if and probably will be beaten if a weaker club, hardly worth it especially if can barely field some do the cost benefit analysis on a short term basis but really long term killing themselves this is driven by divisional and county boards

Scheduling of games ie minor football starting in feb in muck and ****e. Scandalous tbh.

A vicious circle as you can see & those in positions of responsibility in my opinion 1. Can’t see the woods from the trees as they are removed from clubs so long and are career administrators, 2. Don’t want to listen or engage with people like me and others 3. Think everything is a personal attack driven by their own egos 4. Don’t care - if they did they’d have had audiences with clubs

Excellent post.
All correct and we need young people like yourself to run for positions and to try change things.
More importantly the next county secretary is hopefully not just one of the boys but someone with not just getting the job because they have held lots of other GAA positions before but someone who has experience of successfully leading a professional organisation, a record of achieving results and someone with lots of new ideas and vision.

Road-Hog

Mulbert wrote: »

The list is wrong.

Yes very wrong......Waterford defo didn’t win minor all Ireland in 2009

mountgomery burns

Road-Hog wrote: »

Yes very wrong......Waterford defo didn’t win minor all Ireland in 2009

4 years later as in 2013

RichardBzero

Obi1mikal wrote: »

Totally understand that, my point is that u16 and u18 were ran last year with little fuss and by all accounts two very good and competitive championships. (I am only speaking about the A championships as I am not fully sure how the other divisions played out). So when they changed to u17 and u19 they could of ran two proper championships again. Just provisionally use the same dates and fixtures as the previous year and run an u23 straight knockout competition later in the year if needs be.

100% agree. I’ve only been having the same conversations with people in my own club this week. Last year clubs were given the option of u19 or u20 and voted for the former. However as you say to not have it as a proper championship is mind boggling. The situation out club find ourself in this year and what will happen to 7-8 players next year is they turn 18 and are thrown into an adult set up when they’re not physically ready and will eventually get fed up and lose interest as there’s only a small knock out tournament for them at the end of the year. Clubs are going to see a huge drop off in players at that age in the coming years unless they rethink the age groups. You’ll obviously have some lads come out of u17 and will be physically be able to blend into a senior/junior set up but the vast majority won’t.

Jerry Atrick

mickotallow wrote: »

Another huge factor is the money involved in training a team now. Young lads these days can’t scratch themselves without looking for a physio. Never mind training a team. That takes up huge time, effort and commitment. The money in is physios for hurling teams.
Also I heard the county board giving out about their training costs increasing this year because the Waterford team went back training earlier this year because they finished so early in 2018 and because the league start was brought forward. What about the club team that has the expenses of their team going back training in Jan for one match in April and continue training to September? This is the majority of costs for every club I would imagine. Physios, trainers, sliotars, referees, lights, electricity etc. All adds up when teams are training.
County board never think of that when they force levies onto clubs and when PJR says “that the clubs are the county board”. Funny then that when clubs ask for a definitive club calendar or for weekends off cos heaven forbid players decide to have a life while waiting months for a game, they get a firm no.

The physio phenomenon is something to behold alright. A chap does a bit of hard running and is up on the bench the following night or covered in blue tape. Complete waste of money...psychiatrist needed in most cases.

Cake Man

God start for the Tony Forristal team with a 3-11 to 2-07 win over Limerick. They play Offaly at 1.20.
Sonny Walsh team play either Limerick or Dublin at 12.30.

PTH2009

Relegation semis
Tallow 1-16- Ballyduff Upper 0-17
Clonea 3-22- Fourmilewater 1-15

Ballyduff Upper vs Fourmilewater to decide who plays senior in 2020

QF- Ballygunner 3-22- Passage 1-12

upthedeise16

PTH2009 wrote: »

Relegation semis
Tallow 1-16- Ballyduff Upper 0-17
Clonea 3-22- Fourmilewater 1-15

Ballyduff Upper vs Fourmilewater to decide who plays senior in 2020

QF- Ballygunner 3-22- Passage 1-12

Fourmilewater look favourites for relegation after today’s matches, Ballyduff-Tallow was very entertaining but Clonea were way too strong for Fourmilewater team without Barron

RichardBzero

PTH2009 wrote: »

Relegation semis
Tallow 1-16- Ballyduff Upper 0-17
Clonea 3-22- Fourmilewater 1-15

Ballyduff Upper vs Fourmilewater to decide who plays senior in 2020

QF- Ballygunner 3-22- Passage 1-12

Dessie Hutchinson was a constant threat. Slick operator and based on his movement and hurling today, he’s as good as a few on the county panel.

PTH2009

Semi final defeat in the TF for Waterford beaten 1-7-0-13 by Offaly (who we actually beat in the group stage earlier)

Decent result for Offaly Hurling getting to a final

cul beag

upthedeise16 wrote: »

Fourmilewater look favourites for relegation after today’s matches, Ballyduff-Tallow was very entertaining but Clonea were way too strong for Fourmilewater team without Barron

Congrats to Clonea on a fantastic performance today. Worthy winners even if FMW were short the services of Jamie Barron it doesn’t deflect from a great display and I could see how they ran MT Sion so close last weekend. Their 3rd goal was worthy of the admission fee alone.
As for the Ballyduff v Tallow game it was spirited at best but the standard was chronic. It really is hard to decide on which of the 2 between Ballyduff and FMW will be relegated as both were very disappointing today.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Agreed. The standard in the Tallow v Ballyduff game was very poor after watching the slick hurling of Clonea who were very entertaining and have some good hurlers.
Sounds like business as usual in Walsh Park!

cul beag

What a county board.

thesaturdayman

cul beag wrote: »

What a county board.

Saw it. Absolute disgrace. Should the Kilmac clashmore game not be replayed or voided so? Result can’t stand surely?

cul beag

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Saw it. Absolute disgrace. Should the Kilmac clashmore game not be replayed or voided so? Result can’t stand surely?

But you will love this one- The winner of the Deise Development draw having been presented with his winning cheque was informed not to cash it for 6 weeks! Eventually he got it in 3 separate payments. And they want to develop Walsh Park?!! People looking for an outside manager will have a bit of a wait I’d imagine! As for the football game the fairest thing would have to be a replay.

jelutong

debok wrote: »

I don't think it's the quoting Shakespeare is the problem. It's the fact that he mentions Shakespeare etc in relation to talking about tactics for a gaa match. We all have an interest in other stuff but wouldn't constantly bring up when talking about another unrelated subject. Knowing Shakespeare has absolutely nothing to do with playing an extra defender. He just comes across as someone who feels he needs to justify his intelligence during every interview

Alas,poor Derek.

Mastermcgrath

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Saw it. Absolute disgrace. Should the Kilmac clashmore game not be replayed or voided so? Result can’t stand surely?

Shambles from the referee, he should be suspended aswell and not return until he passes the required rules examination.

But come on, Clashmore knew exactly what they were at. It’s basic enough knowledge that while you can restore 15 players back on the field in ET, you can’t replace with the player that was given a red card. If I knew that, you can be sure that between Kilmac and Clashmore selectors knew it aswell. Playing the victim in their letter to the board like they’re all innocent....
they smelled a weak ref and tried to sneak an advantage, I hope for the 2 x players sake it’s overturned but not sure the clubs themselves deserve any better

thesultan

Clare won in 97

thesultan

Clare won in 97

Mastermcgrath

Decent showing from our Tony Forristal lads. Won both their group games against Limerick and a good Offaly team, had to meet Offaly again in the semi and unfortunately came up short, no shame in that Offaly have started to turn a corner at this level and went onto the final, beaten by Tipp. Overall we were very competitive which is where you hope to be.

A few observations, it feels like this once prestigious competition has lost its aura in recent seasons. The restructuring of the grading system to u13/15 and 17 means counties aren’t taking this grade as priority anymore. A couple of counties like Cork and Clare decided not to enter any teams this year, keeping their development focus on u13 and 15 grades.
Traditionally the Forristal and Sonny Walsh finals would be played as a double header in Walsh Park on the Sunday, often drawing large crowds and produced some legendary finals over the years. I note this year the entire tournament was run off in a day with the finals much more low key affairs, played in Ballybeg and Cleaboy simultaneously. I appreciate the tournament depends solely on funding and the volunteer committee but it would be a pity to see it fall by the wayside.
Finally, wins for Tipp in both finals, considering they’ve just done 2 x under20 finals in a row. Is the future very much blue and gold?

Gardner

Paddypower suspending betting on the fourmilewater clonea match must be a new low for Waterford hurling

Deiseen

Gardner wrote: »

Paddypower suspending betting on the fourmilewater clonea match must be a new low for Waterford hurling

Any idea why?

thesaturdayman

cul beag wrote: »

But you will love this one- The winner of the Deise Development draw having been presented with his winning cheque was informed not to cash it for 6 weeks! Eventually he got it in 3 separate payments. And they want to develop Walsh Park?!! People looking for an outside manager will have a bit of a wait I’d imagine! As for the football game the fairest thing would have to be a replay.

It’s worse things are getting. Why does the deise draw which has been running decades not have enough liquidity to fund the prize pool for one month? If that was a business they’d be shut down.

As for betting suspended in a local Gaa match that’s worthy of a Croke park audit.... I wonder who was getting stuck in?

blueflame

The reason the Tony Forristal finals were separate events this year was because the county Bord did not leave Walsh Park free for the one day. Likewise Mount Sion was booked up for a Legends match that could have been played any other weekend where as the date for the Tony Forristal is set by Croke Park - events this year were outside of the control of the committee - with so many other GAA events being run at the same time it is no wonder the tournament was less profile than usual

PTH2009

https://twitter.com/tomasmcc/status/1168146855320010754?s=19

mountgomery burns

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Shambles from the referee, he should be suspended aswell and not return until he passes the required rules examination.

But come on, Clashmore knew exactly what they were at. It’s basic enough knowledge that while you can restore 15 players back on the field in ET, you can’t replace with the player that was given a red card. If I knew that, you can be sure that between Kilmac and Clashmore selectors knew it aswell. Playing the victim in their letter to the board like they’re all innocent....
they smelled a weak ref and tried to sneak an advantage, I hope for the 2 x players sake it’s overturned but not sure the clubs themselves deserve any better

Players deserve a lot better than that. Referee the one who should be punished in that instance, he should know the rules. As you said, they it's pretty basic knowledge for anyone with an interest in the sport.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Final score
DLS 2-15
Roanmore 2-09


DLS deserved winners but made hard work of it as the game was tied at 1-12 to 2-09 with a minute of normal time to go. DLS scored 1-03 to close out the game from there with 5-6 minutes of injury time.

tommylad1212

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Players deserve a lot better than that. Referee the one who should be punished in that instance, he should know the rules. As you said, they it's pretty basic knowledge for anyone with an interest in the sport.

What a mess the senior football championship is this year , two walk overs given, two suspended players playing in extra time of a match, 3 play off matches played three weeks ago , still no draw made for the 1/4 final or relegation matches

PTH2009

HT- Mount Sion 1-12- Lismore 0-10

Western Intermediate Hurling semi finals
An Rinn vs Ballysaggart
Ardmore vs Clashmore

PTH2009

https://twitter.com/tomasmcc/status/1168226651160944640?s=19

Didnt expect that win for Mount Sion. Are they back and aim to keep there decade record ???

Abbeyside vs Dungarvan the last QF, winners joining Ballygunner, DLS and Mount Sion in the semis

are the semis in 2 weeks time (14th/15th Sep) ??

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Big win for Mount Sion. Anyone at this one?

RichardBzero

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Big win for Mount Sion. Anyone at this one?

Yeah, very good performance. Led by 5 at ht and were about 12 up with 15 left. Lismore got back a few points and had it down to 6, then won a penalty with approx 10 to go but iggy made a superb save from Maurice. Also followed up with two or three more top drawer saves. Austin Gleeson in the last 15 minutes especially gave an exhibition, caught 5 or 6 clean balls and completely dominated. Lismore looked off colour, Maurice was always a threat but kept relatively quiet by Penkert of mount sion. Lismore tried to make everything go through him. Very entertaining game

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Full Time
Abbeyside: 3-12(21)
Dungarvan: 2-17(23)

Following this on Twitter. Sounded like an absolute thriller from the score updates!!

Dammo

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Full Time
Abbeyside: 3-12(21)
Dungarvan: 2-17(23)

Following this on Twitter. Sounded like an absolute thriller from the score updates!!

Controversial goal for Dungarvan at the death I’m hearing.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Semi finals on 28th and 29th September. Big gap.

Semi Final Draw
Ballygunner v Dungarvan
Mount Sion v De La Salle

PTH2009

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Semi finals on 28th and 29th September. Big gap.

Semi Final Draw
Ballygunner v Dungarvan
Mount Sion v De La Salle

Skin and hair will be flying in these

Why is there such a gap ??? .

I knw where not out in Munster til the 3rd Nov (football champs playing the 10th Nov)

Is it to give the management committee time to have someone in place by the time of the semi finals

upthedeise16

Gardner wrote: »

Paddypower suspending betting on the fourmilewater clonea match must be a new low for Waterford hurling

Why was this? Are you insinuating match fixing or something untoward?

Dammo wrote: »

Controversial goal for Dungarvan at the death I’m hearing.

It seemed a perfectly good goal, Kiely followed it in. Joe Allen’s goal from outside the 21 into the top corner was a top quality score that dragged Dungarvan back into it straight after the Abbeyside goal.
Semi-finals aren’t for 4 weeks due to the football quarter finals I think, think for once the county board won’t be under pressure to get the senior championships over.

thesaturdayman

upthedeise16 wrote: »

Why was this? Are you insinuating match fixing or something untoward?



It seemed a perfectly good goal, Kiely followed it in. Joe Allen’s goal from outside the 21 into the top corner was a top quality score that dragged Dungarvan back into it straight after the Abbeyside goal.
Semi-finals aren’t for 4 weeks due to the football quarter finals I think, think for once the county board won’t be under pressure to get the senior championships over.

Unless Kilmac appeal the result against clashmore on grounds of an “illegal player” and its appealed subsequently which will hold up the whole thing again for weeks!

It is a very likely scenario I heard today!

cul beag

Great performance by Mt. Sion this evening in accounting for a very poor Lismore side. Aussie was at his brilliant best and actually looks fitter now than he did all year for Waterford. Evan Mcgrath was very good aswell as Mikey Daykin and Stephen Roche. They hit the ground running and never looked in trouble all through as Lismore looked very flat and lacked basic work rate for the whole game.
The intensity in the second game was a lot higher and had the real derby feel to it. It was an enthralling battle and it hung in the balance right to the bitter end. Young Michael Kiely from Abbeyside looked impressive as did Neil Montgomery in patches. Joe Allen’s goal for Dungarvan was an absolute screamer but Kenny Moore and Gavin Crotty were the victors most consistent players. They will have to tighten their full back line if they’re to threaten Ballygunner but they won’t be thinking about that tonight.

hardybuck

PTH2009 wrote: »

Skin and hair will be flying in these

Why is there such a gap ??? .

I knw where not out in Munster til the 3rd Nov (football champs playing the 10th Nov)

Is it to give the management committee time to have someone in place by the time of the semi finals

Munster championship isn't until November.

Better to play a couple of rounds of football and give the county hurling and football champions a chance to play in the Munster championships with a bit of match sharpness.

tommylad1212

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Unless Kilmac appeal the result against clashmore on grounds of an “illegal player” and its appealed subsequently which will hold up the whole thing again for weeks!

It is a very likely scenario I heard today!

They played a player in et that was sent off also