Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

thesaturdayman

Lingoweet913 wrote: »

thesaturdayman wrote: »

5 year term. Can seek to go again, not sure if it's contested or not in that case.

Not the case I believe. His contract was made permanent some court case challenging contracted employees.

could be totally wrong but that’s what I was told.

thesaturdayman

CCC have upheld the ban on Sam Fitzgerald and Reece Power.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

I believe the referee offered to take the ban for the players also.

Deisegodeo

News and star reporting that Peter queally has been nominated for senior managers job.

Anyone know who else has been nominated?

Obi1mikal

thesaturdayman wrote: »

CCC have upheld the ban on Sam Fitzgerald and Reece Power.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

I believe the referee offered to take the ban for the players also.

Do you know if you get a yellow card in normal time and then receive one in extra time are you sent off?

thesaturdayman

Obi1mikal wrote: »

Do you know if you get a yellow card in normal time and then receive one in extra time are you sent off?

He was only person nominated by clubs seemingly.

Is the remit of the new committee to source the manager or merely interview who is nominated?

How pres tell would an external mgr apply if he didn’t have a link to county?

Expect the co secretary to ring them?

Obi1mikal

thesaturdayman wrote: »

He was only person nominated by clubs seemingly.

Is the remit of the new committee to source the manager or merely interview who is nominated?

How pres tell would an external mgr apply if he didn’t have a link to county?

Expect the co secretary to ring them?

Huh??? Didnt really answer my question there ha

PTH2009

thesaturdayman wrote: »

He was only person nominated by clubs seemingly.

Is the remit of the new committee to source the manager or merely interview who is nominated?

How pres tell would an external mgr apply if he didn’t have a link to county?

Expect the co secretary to ring them?

If this is true than were in some state as a whole.

No interest outside the county???

Quelly could be good but needs a strong backroom team.

tommylad1212

Obi1mikal wrote: »

Do you know if you get a yellow card in normal time and then receive one in extra time are you sent off?

Yes

cul beag

Deisegodeo wrote: »

News and star reporting that Peter queally has been nominated for senior managers job.

Anyone know who else has been nominated?

Nobody else remotely interested because of player power and lack of finances.

Obi1mikal

tommylad1212 wrote: »

Yes

Ok so how would the players be allowed back on.

The referee and club officials should of known that, nothing to do with the players obviously.

The ref and club officials should be banned

mountgomery burns

thesaturdayman wrote: »

CCC have upheld the ban on Sam Fitzgerald and Reece Power.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

I believe the referee offered to take the ban for the players also.

Shameful stuff, really disappointed to hear it. Was it the CHC of Croke Park that upheld it?

thesaturdayman

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Shameful stuff, really disappointed to hear it. Was it the CHC of Croke Park that upheld it?

No. The local Waterford CCC.

Same gombeens just a different name on them.

And re the ref, the ref vetted his decision by two board officers on the night, who also didn’t know the rules.

thesaturdayman

Obi1mikal wrote: »

Ok so how would the players be allowed back on.

The referee and club officials should of known that, nothing to do with the players obviously.

The ref and club officials should be banned

What are you on about man?

Two lads same and Reece went off on two yellows in normal time.

Game ended in a draw.

Both teams are allowed to go back up to 15 players, but not allowed to use same players.

Therein lies the issue that subsequently unfolded. Nothing to do with getting yellows in normal or extra time.

PTH2009

Should have a New Jersey for 2020/21

Obi1mikal

thesaturdayman wrote: »

What are you on about man?

Two lads same and Reece went off on two yellows in normal time.

Game ended in a draw.

Both teams are allowed to go back up to 15 players, but not allowed to use same players.

Therein lies the issue that subsequently unfolded. Nothing to do with getting yellows in normal or extra time.

It has everything to do with getting yellows that is the whole point of the situation, I am trying to make the point that yellow cards carry into extra time so why would the double yellows that were received in normal time be wiped clean.

There is more to this then meets the eye, both clubs playing innocent I dont believe it for one minute that not one person from any of the clubs knew the rule.

Someone for the referee team, county board officials or club officials should of known what was happening.

Feel sorry for both players and their respective bans should be overturned as they dont have to know the rules they just followed orders but somebody needs to be banned for this that is why I said ref and club officials should be

thesaturdayman

Obi1mikal wrote: »

It has everything to do with getting yellows that is the whole point of the situation, I am trying to make the point that yellow cards carry into extra time so why would the double yellows that were received in normal time be wiped clean.

There is more to this then meets the eye, both clubs playing innocent I dont believe it for one minute that not one person from any of the clubs knew the rule.

Someone for the referee team, county board officials or club officials should of known what was happening.

Feel sorry for both players and their respective bans should be overturned as they dont have to know the rules they just followed orders but somebody needs to be banned for this that is why I said ref and club officials should be

The referee made his decision ultimately on advice he was given by 2 x county board officials.

That said I know for a fact he is fully accepting he was wrong and offered to take the bans on behalf of players. Mistakes happen it’s what you do to rectify them is what counts.

What the county board have done after - banning the lads & then upholding of the ban is absolute gombeenery and incompetence. The ppl that are upholding & pushing for ban are the same ppl advised the referee incorrectly.

Upholding the rules when it suits them.

HelloHello1234

Obi1mikal wrote: »

It has everything to do with getting yellows that is the whole point of the situation, I am trying to make the point that yellow cards carry into extra time so why would the double yellows that were received in normal time be wiped clean.

There is more to this then meets the eye, both clubs playing innocent I dont believe it for one minute that not one person from any of the clubs knew the rule.

Someone for the referee team, county board officials or club officials should of known what was happening.

Feel sorry for both players and their respective bans should be overturned as they dont have to know the rules they just followed orders but somebody needs to be banned for this that is why I said ref and club officials should be

yellow cards dont carry into extra time

mountgomery burns

It took me 5 seconds to Google "GAA extra time red card" and returned the below:

"(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time (In Inter County the players must be from the Official Team List) except that a player ordered off in Normal Time (Black or Red) is not permitted to play in Extra Time. ... (e) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued during Normal Time shall not carry over into Extra Time."

No excuse for any officials present not to be able to check the same if unsure, besides the fact that they should know anyway. But it's outrageous that the players now suffer for this incompetence. And in fairness, if the ref offered to serve the ban in their place then fairplay to him he's owned up to it though I think that offer should be taken up if that's the case.

debok

thesaturdayman wrote: »

CCC have upheld the ban on Sam Fitzgerald and Reece Power.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

I believe the referee offered to take the ban for the players also.

Thought twas being decided in a meeting tonight

hardybuck

I'd be prepared to cut the referee some slack here. They've made a mistake and admitted it.

It's difficult enough to find people willing to referee, and the GAA rule book is way too complicated - teams going back to 15 men in injury time is just another example of unnecessary complications in the rules.

Stopitwillya

hardybuck wrote: »

I'd be prepared to cut the referee some slack here. They've made a mistake and admitted it.

It's difficult enough to find people willing to referee, and the GAA rule book is way too complicated - teams going back to 15 men in injury time is just another example of unnecessary complications in the rules.

Agree and fair dues to the ref for offering to take the ban.
Any chance some of our county board officials can be given a 24 week ban to stop them making more of a hames of things.

tonc76

I heard earlier that the 24 week ban also means that Sam Fitzgerald is unable to line out for a county team and his school also which makes this even more of a farce.

PTH2009

Colm Bonner staying with Carlow

Mastermcgrath

mountgomery burns wrote: »

It took me 5 seconds to Google "GAA extra time red card" and returned the below:

"(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time (In Inter County the players must be from the Official Team List) except that a player ordered off in Normal Time (Black or Red) is not permitted to play in Extra Time. ... (e) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued during Normal Time shall not carry over into Extra Time."

No excuse for any officials present not to be able to check the same if unsure, besides the fact that they should know anyway. But it's outrageous that the players now suffer for this incompetence. And in fairness, if the ref offered to serve the ban in their place then fairplay to him he's owned up to it though I think that offer should be taken up if that's the case.

The clubs are not entirely innocent either. I don't believe for a second that no one from either club involved could not have known this, you googled it in 5 seconds, no doubt plenty of people at the game done so aswell. You'd question what is the mindset of the club officials & selectors? Here it seems win at all costs and throw a ref under the bus instead of the spirit of the games. Well its backfired and they've let their own players down badly by sitting back and letting it happen.

thesaturdayman

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

The clubs are not entirely innocent either. I don't believe for a second that no one from either club involved could not have known this, you googled it in 5 seconds, no doubt plenty of people at the game done so aswell. You'd question what is the mindset of the club officials & selectors? Here it seems win at all costs and throw a ref under the bus instead of the spirit of the games. Well its backfired and they've let their own players down badly by sitting back and letting it happen.

Ah come on. Since when are the clubs responsible for implementing the rules!

It’s like a cop stopping you for being on the phone when driving and saying it’s a 90 euro fine & you telling actually it’s a 90 fine and 3 penalty points.

The ref is paid to do the game, should know the rules - In This instance , he didn’t know, so rightly he sought advice and was misinformed.

The county secretary is well paid & should know the rules

The treasurer is also well looked after and is a former county secretary also should know the rules.

Clubs don’t run fixtures / competitions administrators do.

In this instance & subsequent events that followed administrators made a total balls of it, again.

celt262

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

The clubs are not entirely innocent either. I don't believe for a second that no one from either club involved could not have known this, you googled it in 5 seconds, no doubt plenty of people at the game done so aswell. You'd question what is the mindset of the club officials & selectors? Here it seems win at all costs and throw a ref under the bus instead of the spirit of the games. Well its backfired and they've let their own players down badly by sitting back and letting it happen.

It's not up to a referee to decide on the eligibility of a player anyway, it's up to the clubs to know the ruling. The secretary of the club should be getting suspension here also.

thesaturdayman

celt262 wrote: »

It's not up to a referee to decide on the eligibility of a player anyway, it's up to the clubs to know the ruling. The secretary of the club should be getting suspension here also.

Secretary of what club?

What rules did that person breach?

Or are you saying it because timmy o Keefe of clashmore is a former county secretary & in your opinion / that floated around by board stooges, knew the rule?

The same rule which changed since his time as secretary btw.

He is not responsible even if he did know to inform anyone.

In my experience as a player and a club secretary when your preparing for extra time in a do or die senior championship match advising officials on rules is not my top priority

Sounds like more deflectionist rubbish from board sources to me.

Obi1mikal

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Secretary of what club?

What rules did that person breach?

Or are you saying it because timmy o Keefe of clashmore is a former county secretary & in your opinion / that floated around by board stooges, knew the rule?

The same rule which changed since his time as secretary btw.

He is not responsible even if he did know to inform anyone.

In my experience as a player and a club secretary when your preparing for extra time in a do or die senior championship match advising officials on rules is not my top priority

Sounds like more deflectionist rubbish from board sources to me.

I am totally on your side in regards to the current county board, but if you think this whole mishap is the solely down to them then you are deluded.

People on the line from both clubs knew the rules, there are some very good gaa people on the line for both clubs and they asked the referee for clarification, which in turn he asked the county board members for clarification, all of whom did not not the rules. These people in the clubs knew they were chancing their arm in what they were doing.

But as i said in an earlier post both bans should be lifted from the players as they were just pawns in this and that the bans should be put on club officials and referee (who infainress to him has owned up to his mistake and is willing to take the ban).

thesaturdayman

Obi1mikal wrote: »

I am totally on your side in regards to the current county board, but if you think this whole mishap is the solely down to them then you are deluded.

People on the line from both clubs knew the rules, there are some very good gaa people on the line for both clubs and they asked the referee for clarification, which in turn he asked the county board members for clarification, all of whom did not not the rules. These people in the clubs knew they were chancing their arm in what they were doing.

But as i said in an earlier post both bans should be lifted from the players as they were just pawns in this and that the bans should be put on club officials and referee (who infainress to him has owned up to his mistake and is willing to take the ban).

How you can prove someone is chancing their arm or not is irrelevant? Total red herring.

The onus is on firstly the referee and secondly the safety net should be county board officials to implement the rules. Both failed here so why now are clubs getting blamed.

The clubs don’t run competitions or referee games officials do.

celt262

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Secretary of what club? Secretary of club involved in playing eligible player - They take on a role they should know the rules

What rules did that person breach? What Person ?

Or are you saying it because timmy o Keefe of clashmore is a former county secretary & in your opinion / that floated around by board stooges, knew the rule? I don't know anyone involved

The same rule which changed since his time as secretary btw. When did it change?

He is not responsible even if he did know to inform anyone.

In my experience as a player and a club secretary when your preparing for extra time in a do or die senior championship match advising officials on rules is not my top priority Who do you think should be advising on rules then?

Sounds like more deflectionist rubbish from board sources to me. I dont know anyone involved

See my comments

DiscoStew

celt262 wrote: »

It's not up to a referee to decide on the eligibility of a player anyway, it's up to the clubs to know the ruling. The secretary of the club should be getting suspension here also.

Correct. If a player is suspended for having a red card in a previous game, for example, it’s not up to the referee to identify this player and remove him from the pitch if he is togged out while suspended. The onus is on the club to know the rule and not put themselves at risk of further action.
I fully accept this is a slightly different situation but the club officials not knowing or ignoring the rules is as much an issue as the referees lack of knowledge and poor advice from board members.

thesaturdayman

DiscoStew wrote: »

Correct. If a player is suspended for having a red card in a previous game, for example, it’s not up to the referee to identify this player and remove him from the pitch if he is togged out while suspended. The onus is on the club to know the rule and not put themselves at risk of further action.
I fully accept this is a slightly different situation but the club officials not knowing or ignoring the rules is as much an issue as the referees lack of knowledge and poor advice from board members.

Look fair enough, I hear the arguments, as someone who’s a player & a former Secretary I’m totally in opposite camp. Understand and respect the points but definitely don’t agree.

Why the secretary? Why not the chairman? Seriously?

I know of club secretaries who don’t even go to games. A team secretary yea fair enough.

Referees and officials are there to know and police the rules, they are the custodians of the game, both elected and well reimbursed to do so.

Accept your point & % wise man id out about 3% at club secretaries door. 40% referee 57% county board Only as referee had the wherewithal to stop and vet the decision prior to it!

DiscoStew

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Look fair enough, I hear the arguments, as someone who’s a player & a former Secretary I’m totally in opposite camp. Understand and respect the points but definitely don’t agree.

Why the secretary? Why not the chairman? Seriously?

I know of club secretaries who don’t even go to games. A team secretary yea fair enough.

Referees and officials are there to know and police the rules, they are the custodians of the game, both elected and well reimbursed to do so.

Accept your point & % wise man id out about 3% at club secretaries door. 40% referee 57% county board Only as referee had the wherewithal to stop and vet the decision prior to it!

I referenced club officials, didn’t mention a secretary whatsoever in my post.
As for board officials being on hand to implement rules, do you expect to have a board official at every single game played? I’m far from an apologist for the board but I don’t see how this could be any way feasible.
The club have to look out for the best interest of their players, that includes knowing such rules and potential consequences of breaking them.

Again I respect this is slightly different given that the ref, supposedly, consulted board members. I would expect board members to at the very least be able to consult the rule book on the matter to advise the ref but I certainly believe the club can not pass the blame totally on to the ref / board. They need to protect themselves in these instances.

celt262

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Look fair enough, I hear the arguments, as someone who’s a player & a former Secretary I’m totally in opposite camp. Understand and respect the points but definitely don’t agree.

Why the secretary? Why not the chairman? Seriously?

I know of club secretaries who don’t even go to games. A team secretary yea fair enough.

Referees and officials are there to know and police the rules, they are the custodians of the game, both elected and well reimbursed to do so.

Accept your point & % wise man id out about 3% at club secretaries door. 40% referee 57% county board Only as referee had the wherewithal to stop and vet the decision prior to it!

It this situation it seems like there were a bunch of uneducated personnel who though they knew it all and others who took advantage of it.

FYI Under official GAA rules, the chairman and secretary of a club are held responsible if their club fields an illegal player.

Mastermcgrath

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Ah come on. Since when are the clubs responsible for implementing the rules!

It’s like a cop stopping you for being on the phone when driving and saying it’s a 90 euro fine & you telling actually it’s a 90 fine and 3 penalty points.

The ref is paid to do the game, should know the rules - In This instance , he didn’t know, so rightly he sought advice and was misinformed.

The county secretary is well paid & should know the rules

The treasurer is also well looked after and is a former county secretary also should know the rules.

Clubs don’t run fixtures / competitions administrators do.

In this instance & subsequent events that followed administrators made a total balls of it, again.

Missing my point, of course its responsibility on the referee to implement the rules. I'm not talking about the clubs implementing the rules, I'm talking about the spirit of the game.

It just seems now that Clashmore are taking the moral highground and playing the victim with their public statement etc, they were happy to sit back and say nothing and allow rules to be broken when it worked to their advantage (the player in question one of the best young footballers in the county) but when its now turned around on them and the individual player punished they're crying outrage. I'm just saying the clubs are not coming out of this with the huge halo's on their heads like they're portraying. the only unjustified victims in all this is the players themselves.

Lingoweet913

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Missing my point, of course its responsibility on the referee to implement the rules. I'm not talking about the clubs implementing the rules, I'm talking about the spirit of the game.

It just seems now that Clashmore are taking the moral highground and playing the victim with their public statement etc, they were happy to sit back and say nothing and allow rules to be broken when it worked to their advantage (the player in question one of the best young footballers in the county) but when its now turned around on them and the individual player punished they're crying outrage. I'm just saying the clubs are not coming out of this with the huge halo's on their heads like they're portraying. the only unjustified victims in all this is the players themselves.

Maybe it would have been better for the board to charge Clashmore and kilmac rather than the player? I think both statements by both clubs were mostly along the lines of just stating how things are done in the county - which is not very well

Alpha Centauri

mountgomery burns wrote: »

It took me 5 seconds to Google "GAA extra time red card" and returned the below:

"(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time (In Inter County the players must be from the Official Team List) except that a player ordered off in Normal Time (Black or Red) is not permitted to play in Extra Time. ... (e) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued during Normal Time shall not carry over into Extra Time."

Are these old rules? The 2019 guide says:

(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.

upthedeise16

Alpha Centauri wrote: »

Are these old rules? The 2019 guide says:

(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.

It’s basically the same thing, if you are sent off in normal time, you can’t play extra time but a sub can come on for you.

mountgomery burns

Alpha Centauri wrote: »

Are these old rules? The 2019 guide says:

(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in
Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but
may be replaced.

Exact same thing just worded differently.

whiteandblue

Hearing Tadgh de Burca has done his cruciate, hopefully he will make a full recovery but would be likely to miss all of 2020

JesusRef

The clubs knew the rules.

One.club chanced their arm and the other followed suit, unfortunate for the ref, there were players from both team having recieved two yellows, so he was then put under pressure from both sides to get them back on in extra time.

If only one team had a player sent off on two yellows this never would have happened, as the club with the full compliment, knowing well the rules, would have objected.

In this instance, punish both clubs and not the players.... they knew well what they were at

PTH2009

whiteandblue wrote: »

Hearing Tadgh de Burca has done his cruciate, hopefully he will make a full recovery but would be likely to miss all of 2020

yeah will be a massive loss for club and county

hopefully he recovers fully and see him in action sometime in 2020

A bit of a headache for the new manager trying too find a sutiable replacement

hurler on de ditch

PTH2009 wrote: »

yeah will be a massive loss for club and county

hopefully he recovers fully and see him in action sometime in 2020

A bit of a headache for the new manager trying too find a sutiable replacement

Seriously ...loads of replacements .he had a glorious few years as sweeper and for the best part of the time as a man marker he was inadequate ,

Relhcstirt

DJ Carey for the senior post!!

spideyman92

Relhcstirt wrote: »

DJ Carey for the senior post!!

I heard recently from someone in the camp that Anthony Daly was approached but the fee he wanted was too high.

cul beag

spideyman92 wrote: »

I heard recently from someone in the camp that Anthony Daly was approached but the fee he wanted was too high.

All a smokescreen. They have to be seen to go through the motions of asking all the big names out there but when you’re penniless the job will be given to Queally and we’ll be told he was the best candidate for the position.

tommylad1212

Anyone get the football draw 1/4 finals and relegation playoffs?

PTH2009

Relhcstirt wrote: »

DJ Carey for the senior post!!

Would be a decent appointment but he stated he would never manage outside of Kilkenny

upthedeise16

tommylad1212 wrote: »

Anyone get the football draw 1/4 finals and relegation playoffs?

Ballinacourty-Kilrossanty, Nire-An Rinn, Rathgormack-Gaultier, Stradbally-Clashmore

Deisefacts

After attending last nights football match, I can now confirm that Dessie o Leary is the worst referee we have or there’s ever been in the county. And that’s a fact