Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

914

League fixtures released today.

(Hurling)

Home games against
Offaly
Carlow
Galway

Away games
Laois
Dublin

(Football)

Home games
Wicklow
Derry
Antrim

Away games
Limerick
Wexford
London
Leitrim

thesaturdayman

deiseach wrote: »

Can you please explain how you came by these figures before I waste my time trying to mash together League and Championship results? In the meantime, these are our Championship records for the grounds mentioned since 1998:

Walsh Park P5 W5 D0 L0 100%
Semple Stadium P38 W20 D5 L13 59%
Páirc Uí Chaoimh P10 W5 L5 50%
Gaelic Grounds P4 W0 D1 L3 13%
Nowlan Park P2 W0 D0 L2 0%

Are you counting games against teams that don’t compete for Liam McCarthy? Cos I am not.

Iv a graphic I’ll put up later.

KevIRL

914 wrote: »

League fixtures released today.

(Hurling)

Home games against
Offaly
Carlow
Galway

Away games
Laois
Dublin

(Football)

Home games
Wicklow
Derry
Antrim

Away games
Limerick
Wexford
London
Leitrim

Galway at home last game. Hopefully a decider on who gets promoted to 1A

KevIRL

deiseach wrote: »

Can you please explain how you came by these figures before I waste my time trying to mash together League and Championship results? In the meantime, these are our Championship records for the grounds mentioned since 1998:

Walsh Park P5 W5 D0 L0 100%
Semple Stadium P38 W20 D5 L13 59%
Pc Uhaoimh P10 W5 L5 50%
Gaelic Grounds P4 W0 D1 L3 13%
Nowlan Park P2 W0 D0 L2 0%

Tbf Galway the only 'competitive' team we played at Walsh Park during that period. Dublin were in there too, but at the time they were whipping boys.

deiseach

KevIRL wrote: »

Tbf Galway the only 'competitive' team we played at Walsh Park during that period. Dublin were in there too, but at the time they were whipping boys.

Look at you, trying to introduce 'nuance' to the discussion

Gardner

all home games to be played in WIT.

The booooouuuuuuyzzzzz up WHHHHHHHEEEEEESSSST wont be happy with that!

PTH2009

KevIRL wrote: »

Galway at home last game. Hopefully a decider on who gets promoted to 1A

Don't hold your breath Dublin will be also pretty strong too and have decided to play us in Parnell Park instead of doing the Croke Park double header

Have heard all our home league games will be in Carriginore ??? Hardly true as it's too small

KevIRL

PTH2009 wrote: »

Don't hold your breath Dublin will be also pretty strong too and have decided to play us in Parnell Park instead of doing the Croke Park double header

Never mind Dublin, I'm sure you can make a strong case for Carlow PTH

914

Gardner wrote: »

all home games to be played in WIT.

The booooouuuuuuyzzzzz up WHHHHHHHEEEEEESSSST wont be happy with that!

Wouldn't think there is any truth in that. I'd imagine all games will be in faher if WP is closed for development

PTH2009

KevIRL wrote: »

Never mind Dublin, I'm sure you can make a strong case for Carlow PTH

Good lads lead by a Colm Bonnor who has done a great job with them. They will not lie down and will give it there all. Offaly showed a lot of improvement last season and Laois will want to bounch back

National Hurling League Fixtures 2019
January 27th
Waterford v Offaly 2pm

February 2nd
Laois v Waterford 2pm

February 16th (Saturday)
Waterford v Carlow 7pm

February 24th
Dublin v Waterford 2pm

March 3rd
Waterford v Galway 2pm

The first 3 games will give the new management a chance to look at some new players and we should start bringing back the big guns for the Dublin and Galway games

Deiseen

enoughtaken wrote: »

914 wrote: »

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Some misinformation there.

Limerick full for game against Waterford, Cork full for game against Limerick. Thats this year alone.

Ed Sheeran packed it out twice too.

Attendance for limerick v waterford 23,194 (gaelic grounds capacity just shy of 50k)

Attendance for cork v limerick 34,607 (PUC capacity (45000)

Far from full in both your suggestions.

Clares population is similar to waterfords a bit more 120k and they couldn't fill cusack for their game against us 13k or so attended.

Think that shows walsh will be more than capable

100% correct. If They can get pitch right should make a good stadium. For all there shortfalls you have to give them credit for getting planning permission over the line.

They've done well but they still have to deliver it!

deisedude

PTH2009 wrote: »

Good lads lead by a Colm Bonnor who has done a great job with them. They will not lie down and will give it there all. Offaly showed a lot of improvement last season and Laois will want to bounch back

Good thing you are not a motivational speaker :pac:

Ropaire

deisedude wrote: »

PTH2009 wrote: »

Good lads lead by a Colm Bonnor who has done a great job with them. They will not lie down and will give it there all. Offaly showed a lot of improvement last season and Laois will want to bounch back

Good thing you are not a motivational speaker :pac:

That was a good motivational speech though. For Carlow.

PTH2009

I'd say they might play the Offaly and Carlow games in Carriginore and then the Galway one in Dungarvan

DiscoStew

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'd say they might play the Offaly and Carlow games in Carriginore and then the Galway one in Dungarvan

Is there lights on the main pitch in Carriganore? I know there is on some of the “training” pitches but can’t remember if the pitch with the stand has lights. The Carlow game being on a Saturday evening will require lights.

BloodyBill

Listen guys a 15,000 capacity stadium is a waste of time. Where's the future proofing in that? Or Waterford in a must win round robin championship game against say Cork...cork would bring 15,000 themselves.
You use the Gaelic Grounds as an example of a capacity not tested. It hosted a Munster final against Cork in 2013 and it was full. The capacity is about 45,000 now because if Floodlights. I reckon next year Limerick will fill it a couple of times. That's planning for the future and Munster finals.
Wouldnt Waterford people want a Munster final some day? I think you could do alot better than 15,000. Why let Cork ,Tipp and Limerick dominate Munster final venues.

Motivator

BloodyBill wrote: »

Listen guys a 15,000 capacity stadium is a waste of time. Where's the future proofing in that? Or Waterford in a must win round robin championship game against say Cork...cork would bring 15,000 themselves.
You use the Gaelic Grounds as an example of a capacity not tested. It hosted a Munster final against Cork in 2013 and it was full. The capacity is about 45,000 now because if Floodlights. I reckon next year Limerick will fill it a couple of times. That's planning for the future and Munster finals.
Wouldnt Waterford people want a Munster final some day? I think you could do alot better than 15,000. Why let Cork ,Tipp and Limerick dominate Munster final venues.

If the Co. Board went and built a stadium that was say, double the capacity of what’s planned, then there would be murder in the county. It would be seen as an incredible waste of money and I would agree. The proposed 15,000 capacity is more than fit for purpose.

The Gaelic Grounds has held 5 senior Munster finals since 1990. How many would you think we’d get in Waterford between now and 2040 if a 30,000+ capacity stadium was built? It would be full once every few years and then we’d go back to having 6,000 at league games and maybe we’d see double the recent Co. Final attendances if we’re lucky.

mountgomery burns

BloodyBill wrote: »

Listen guys a 15,000 capacity stadium is a waste of time. Where's the future proofing in that? Or Waterford in a must win round robin championship game against say Cork...cork would bring 15,000 themselves.
You use the Gaelic Grounds as an example of a capacity not tested. It hosted a Munster final against Cork in 2013 and it was full. The capacity is about 45,000 now because if Floodlights. I reckon next year Limerick will fill it a couple of times. That's planning for the future and Munster finals.
Wouldnt Waterford people want a Munster final some day? I think you could do alot better than 15,000. Why let Cork ,Tipp and Limerick dominate Munster final venues.

Economically, far more justification for a 15,000 capactity stadium that 40,000. Personally, think 20,000 would be the ideal target but beggars can't be choosers either.

Short term, important they sort out a home venue for next year. And that has to be one venue for both games - how can you have two different home venues neither of which are actually your home stadium? Nominate one, end of. I also think that should be Kilkenny and they can be compensated for providing the use of it.

PTH2009

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Economically, far more justification for a 15,000 capactity stadium that 40,000. Personally, think 20,000 would be the ideal target but beggars can't be choosers either.

Short term, important they sort out a home venue for next year. And that has to be one venue for both games - how can you have two different home venues neither of which are actually your home stadium? Nominate one, end of. I also think that should be Kilkenny and they can be compensated for providing the use of it.

If there going home/away type thing every year than Thurles would prob be the ideal venue as our home games against Limerick and Clare. That would mean we will play 3 games in Thurles (away to Tipp, home Limerick and Clare) and 1 in PUC away to Cork

Could they go with an open draw (which was done behind closed doors) like last year e.g. Waterford are drawn as team 5 and will play team 1/3 etc this week ??

914

PTH2009 wrote: »

If there going home/away type thing every year than Thurles would prob be the ideal venue as our home games against Limerick and Clare. That would mean we will play 3 games in Thurles (away to Tipp, home Limerick and Clare) and 1 in PUC away to Cork

Could they go with an open draw (which was done behind closed doors) like last year e.g. Waterford are drawn as team 5 and will play team 1/3 etc this week ??

Waterford won't be allowed thurles for two home games as playing there three times is seen as an unfair advantage to the other countys.

Madness I know, but that is munster councils take on it. If walsh park is closed for development then our home games should be in Faher field even at a reduced capacity.

914

BloodyBill wrote: »

Listen guys a 15,000 capacity stadium is a waste of time. Where's the future proofing in that? Or Waterford in a must win round robin championship game against say Cork...cork would bring 15,000 themselves.
You use the Gaelic Grounds as an example of a capacity not tested. It hosted a Munster final against Cork in 2013 and it was full. The capacity is about 45,000 now because if Floodlights. I reckon next year Limerick will fill it a couple of times. That's planning for the future and Munster finals.
Wouldnt Waterford people want a Munster final some day? I think you could do alot better than 15,000. Why let Cork ,Tipp and Limerick dominate Munster final venues.

Lets use thurles as an example so. Tipp v Cork this year only 22k at it.

As for Munster finals we would never get one. Tipp and cork opt for a home/away on munster final (if tipp v cork meet next year in the munster final its on it cork, when they meet again in a munster final its on it thurles and continues like that)

I also think tipp and limerick have a deal done for home and away, so the only hope we would have for a Munster final would be if we had home/away deals done. We would need at least a 40k capacity stadium, that would remain pretty much empty all year round and we would be saddled with a massive debt.

Imagine a county final in a 40k stadium???

The highest attendance in Munster this year was 45k at the munster final, a Munster final where both counties fancied their chances and it still didn't fill semple.

20k would be perfect for walsh park, but we are looking at 15,500 and thats that so be it. It should also be a massive improvement to what sits there at present

deiseach

914 wrote: »

Waterford won't be allowed thurles for two home games as playing there three times is seen as an unfair advantage to the other countys.

Madness I know, but that is munster councils take on it. If walsh park is closed for development then our home games should be in Faher field even at a reduced capacity.

It has to be Fraher. Kildare showed us the way, and I am certain their stance over Newbridge was informed by how we came up just short in our two 'home' games. The game against Tipperary certainly had, shall we say, a certain notoriety. If the Munster Council won't agree to that, and you can be sure they'll come up with some manner of cock-and-bull story about why it can't be played there, Waterford GAA should say we'll be at our home venue on the day. ready for action. If Clare or Limerick are not there, we'll treat the crowd to an East v West challenge match that will fuel rage on this thread for decades to come.

914

deiseach wrote: »

It has to be Fraher. Kildare showed us the way, and I am certain their stance over Newbridge was informed by how we came up just short in our two 'home' games. The game against Tipperary certainly had, shall we say, a certain notoriety. If the Munster Council won't agree to that, and you can be sure they'll come up with some manner of cock-and-bull story about why it can't be played there, Waterford GAA should say we'll be at our home venue on the day. ready for action. If Clare or Limerick are not there, we'll treat the crowd to an East v West challenge match that will fuel rage on this thread for decades to come.

Fully agree with this post, although I fear getting funding for walsh park from Munster council comes with clause.

"We'll give you funding but until its developed you'll need to play in other Munster venues"

If thats not the case I don't see why we can not do a kildare on it.

Giveitfong

Fraher Field or F***all!

puzl

It's a nice idea but we all know the CB will just roll over for a belly scratch and we'll play in Thurles or Limerick.

Deiseen

puzl wrote: »

It's a nice idea but we all know the CB will just roll over for a belly scratch and we'll play in Thurles or Limerick.

And less people will show up than what we can fit in Fraher Field. Like this year! I think they will realise now that they won't get the crowds if they give us 2 home games, outside of the county.

puzl

I hope you're right Deiseen. I'll be pleasantly surprised if you are.

Edit: As in that they realise that away home games would be a mistake and organise something within the county.

Deiseen

puzl wrote: »

I hope you're right Deiseen.   I'll be pleasantly surprised if you are.

Edit: As in that they realise that away home games would be a mistake and organise something within the county.

It generates bad will and doesn't generate crowds or money so it literally makes no sense in any shape or form.

Deisegodeo

Deiseen wrote: »

It generates bad will and doesn't generate crowds or money so it literally makes no sense in any shape or form.

These decisions don't have to make sense, sure the same argument can be made for our fixture against tipp this year or indeed against Clare in 2008, but those fixtures went ahead in limerick.

Which only strengthens the view that we need to make a stand on fixtures for next year. Pick a venue and stand firm, Nowlan Park maybe. They are hardly going to pull the funding for the redevelopment of Walsh park at this stage.

Deiseen

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

It generates bad will and doesn't generate crowds or money so it literally makes no sense in any shape or form.

These decisions don't have to make sense, sure the same argument can be made for our fixture against tipp this year or indeed against Clare in 2008, but those fixtures went ahead in limerick.

Which only strengthens the view that we need to make a stand on fixtures for next year. Pick a venue and stand firm, Nowlan Park maybe. They are hardly going to pull the funding for the redevelopment of Walsh park at this stage.

What's the obsession with Nowlan park? Put the games in Dungarven, keep the money within Waterford and give Dungarven a nice little tourism boost!

deiseach

I think we made a mistake in fixating on Nowlan Park last year. I know I did. It made it easier for the Munster Council to knock Waterford back, invoking a sense of solidarity. Then I got to Cusack Park, a ground I had never been to before and thought looked pretty good on the telly, and thought that if this (ahem) modest venue is acceptable then Fraher should be just fine. The rationale the Munster Council will deploy to deny us our home games in Fraher will have to be utterly grotesque. I'm going with "Cork and Tipperary got to play ye in neutral venues so it would be unfair on Clare and Limerick to have to play ye at home"! We have to set out our stall early: we play in Fraher or not at all. I certainly won't be going to any games if we don't get our home games there.

whiteandblue

https://hurlingtalk.com/2018/09/06/waterfords-2018-munster-championship-provides-many-positives-and-areas-to-work-on-in-2019/

Good read about Waterford's Munster championship this year and the positives and areas to improve. Tommy Ryan was top scorer from play despite only starting one game

Deiseen

deiseach wrote: »

I think we made a mistake in fixating on Nowlan Park last year. I know I did. It made it easier for the Munster Council to knock Waterford back, invoking a sense of solidarity. Then I got to Cusack Park, a ground I had never been to before and thought looked pretty good on the telly, and thought that if this (ahem) modest venue is acceptable then Fraher should be just fine. The rationale the Munster Council will deploy to deny us our home games in Fraher will have to be utterly grotesque. I'm going with "Cork and Tipperary got to play ye in neutral venues so it would be unfair on Clare and Limerick to have to play ye at home"! We have to set out our stall early: we play in Fraher or not at all. I certainly won't be going to any games if we don't get our home games there.

Bang on!!!

Deisegodeo

What is the capacity of Fraher field ? It was down to around 8,000 for the munster u21 final a few years ago when we played tipp, maybe around 2010 or so

Relhcstirt

Deisegodeo wrote: »

What is the capacity of Fraher field ? It was down to around 8,000 for the munster u21 final a few years ago when we played tipp, maybe around 2010 or so

6,750 capacity. Grand for a league match. Hard to see championship there. But hope we do!!

Fred C Dobbs

whiteandblue wrote: »

https://hurlingtalk.com/2018/09/06/waterfords-2018-munster-championship-provides-many-positives-and-areas-to-work-on-in-2019/

Good read about Waterford's Munster championship this year and the positives and areas to improve. Tommy Ryan was top scorer from play despite only starting one game

Lies, damned lies and statistics ! However, if these stats are true, then they are very damning on how Waterford set up this year.

Gardner

good to see WP progress. in terms of the €€€€€ to fund the development i would sell FF. its a ****hole but a valuable ****hole in terms of land value.

no need to be maintaining(cost) the kip that is FF when we will have a decent setup in WP.

thesultan

Gardner wrote: »

good to see WP progress. in terms of the €€€€€ to fund the development i would sell FF. its a ****hole but a valuable ****hole in terms of land value.

no need to be maintaining(cost) the kip that is FF when we will have a decent setup in WP.

It is needed for club games

whiteandblue

Gardner wrote: »

good to see WP progress. in terms of the €€€€€ to fund the development i would sell FF. its a ****hole but a valuable ****hole in terms of land value.

no need to be maintaining(cost) the kip that is FF when we will have a decent setup in WP.

Fraher Field hosted the All-Ireland hurling finals in 1903, 1905, 1907 and 1911 (Thanks Wikipedia!) so is a protected venue and can't be sold.

I totally disagree in you saying it's a a "****hole".

It is a brilliant surface, much better than Walsh Park and for the abuse it takes, it's always in fairly good nick. It has 6 functioning dressing rooms, excellent lights, good access to parking and as another poster said, it is vital for club games as can be seen this weekend alone with 6 adult matches taking place there.

PTH2009

few upcoming club games

Senior Football championship Quarter finals
Fri 7th Sep- AN Rinn vs Clashmore- 8pm Fraher Field
Sat 8th Sep- Ballinacourty vs Gaultier- 7pm Lemybrien
Sun 9th Sep- Nire vs Rathgormack- 3.30pm Fraher Field
Sun 9th Sep- Stradbally vs Kilrossanty- 7pm Fraher Field

Senior Hurling Relagation playoff
Fri 14th Sep- Ballyduff Upper vs An Rinn- 8pm Fraher Field

Eastern Intermediate Hurling Semi finals
Sat 15th Sep- Ballyduff Lower vs Clonea- 2.30pm Walsh Park
Sat 15th Sep- Dunhill vs Erins Own- 4pm Walsh Park

Western Intermediate Hurling semi final
Sun 16th Sep- Ardmore vs Clashmore- 7pm Fraher Field
Ballysaggert beat cappoquinn 3-16-2-15 last Sunday in the other semi final

Senior Hurling Championship Semi finals
Sat 22nd Sep- De La Salle vs Abbeyside- 5.30pm Walsh Park
Sun 23rd Sep- Ballygunner vs Passage- 3pm Walsh Park

Mastermcgrath

deiseach;108007962I think we made a mistake in fixating on Nowlan Park last year. I know I did. It made it easier for the Munster Council to knock Waterford back, invoking a sense of solidarity. Then I got to Cusack Park, a ground I had never been to before and thought looked pretty good on the telly, and thought that if this (ahem) modest venue is acceptable then Fraher should be just fine. The rationale the Munster Council will deploy to deny us our home games in Fraher will have to be utterly grotesque. I'm going with "Cork and Tipperary got to play ye in neutral venues so it would be unfair on Clare and Limerick to have to play ye at home"! We have to set out our stall early: we play in Fraher or not at all. I certainly won't be going to any games if we don't get our home games there.



Well you won't be going to the Fraher Field either because tickets would be like gold dust. Id imagine very few would go on sale to the public, between season ticket holders and county board coffers of both counties, that's nearly the capacity in itself.

Personally as much as Id love to see us bring Limerick and Clare down to Fraher Field next year I cant see it happening. Limerick being All Ireland Champs will expect to bring  at least 10/15,000 to their away games next year. Theres too much revenue to be lost from the GAA perspective. The Clare game might be a distinct possibility, but not Limerick, given their fanbase.

DiscoStew

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

deiseach;108007962I think we made a mistake in fixating on Nowlan Park last year. I know I did. It made it easier for the Munster Council to knock Waterford back, invoking a sense of solidarity. Then I got to Cusack Park, a ground I had never been to before and thought looked pretty good on the telly, and thought that if this (ahem) modest venue is acceptable then Fraher should be just fine. The rationale the Munster Council will deploy to deny us our home games in Fraher will have to be utterly grotesque. I'm going with "Cork and Tipperary got to play ye in neutral venues so it would be unfair on Clare and Limerick to have to play ye at home"! We have to set out our stall early: we play in Fraher or not at all. I certainly won't be going to any games if we don't get our home games there.



Well you won't be going to the Fraher Field either because tickets would be like gold dust. Id imagine very few would go on sale to the public, between season ticket holders and county board coffers of both counties, that's nearly the capacity in itself.

Personally as much as Id love to see us bring Limerick and Clare down to Fraher Field next year I cant see it happening. Limerick being All Ireland Champs will expect to bring  at least 10/15,000 to their away games next year. Theres too much revenue to be lost from the GAA perspective. The Clare game might be a distinct possibility, but not Limerick, given their fanbase.

Is that not exactly what Kildare did? Mayo were expected to bring a huge following to the game so it was moved to Croker. Kildare said f*ck that and the size of the Mayo support didn’t matter a **** because of Kildares stance. I can’t see how our situation could be deemed any different to that.
There is no obligation to accommodate all season ticket holders even. If it’s to our advantage to play the game in Fraher then we play the game in Fraher.
The new management team will have to make an early decision on where they want to play the homes games and stick to it no matter what.

deiseach

If Waterford play their two home games in Fraher and I can't get tickets for either, so be it. I'll still happily go to the two away games. If enough of us take that attitude then there's the GAA's revenue right there.

PTH2009

deiseach wrote: »

If Waterford play their two home games in Fraher and I can't get tickets for either, so be it. I'll still happily go to the two away games. If enough of us take that attitude then there's the GAA's revenue right there.

Buy a season ticket

puzl

TBH I'd be happy with either Thurles or PuC to be designated as our home venue. We'd have three games there and both of them are in neighbouring counties so not too far away. This bull**** about it being unfair to waterford to play three games in one venue just doesn't wash. If a slight advantage has to be given to Waterford to nullify a huge disadvantage then so be it.

deisedude

deiseach wrote: »

If Waterford play their two home games in Fraher and I can't get tickets for either, so be it. I'll still happily go to the two away games. If enough of us take that attitude then there's the GAA's revenue right there.

Ya, agreed. I'd much prefer to not be able to go to a game if it meant we got home advantage and more likely to win

deiseach

Playing the All-Ireland champions in Dungarvan. The craic would be absolutely ninety. Playing them in Cork or Thurles . . . not so much.

thesaturdayman

deiseach wrote: »

Playing the All-Ireland champions in Dungarvan. The craic would be absolutely ninety. Playing them in Cork or Thurles . . . not so much.

forget about dungarvan. Its grand for a few club games for junior and intermediate clubs. Thats it. Doesn't hold county finals in senior hurling or at least hasn't in many years, over a decade id say.

deiseach

thesaturdayman wrote: »

forget about dungarvan. Its grand for a few club games for junior and intermediate clubs. Thats it. Doesn't hold county finals in senior hurling or at least hasn't in many years, over a decade id say.

Speaking of forgetting things, how's your graphic coming along?

thesaturdayman

deiseach wrote: »

Speaking of forgetting things, how's your graphic coming along?

Would you believe haven’t had 15 mins to sit down yet.

Glad to see you wait with bated breath on my work!