Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

blueflame

Congrats to Ballygunner on winning 5 in a row, no mean achievement irrelevant of what the quality of opposition are considered to be.

I thought what was very noticeable yesterday was the contrast in style and more so how they imposed their structure. Abbeyside, possibly because of their dual status, seemed much more intent on running with the ball and taking it into contact at every opportunity whereas Ballygunner looked all the time to get the ball into space as quickly as possible.

I thought Ballygunner were very drilled and disciplined in their approach - when their half forward line drifted back their full forward line held their discipline and stayed close to goal, only moving when the Ballygunner backs were getting ready to deliver the ball , the result being acres of space in front of them making the delivery much easier. On the contrary when the Abbeyside half froward line went deep, their full forward line drifted out the field condensing the space and leaving no real goal threat inside.

In fairness to Abbeyside they put up a decent show but shot some of poor wides from distance, especially from frees while Mahony punished them repeatedly from every free. Some good young players in the Abbeyside team but if i am honest i think it is just ridiculously difficult to compete at this level in both codes, especially when you face a side who are as well drilled and coached as Ballygunner.

Tough luck to Abbeyside yesterday but best of luck in the football and best of luck to the Gunners in Munster.

tommylad1212

DiscoStew wrote: »

I think Conor works in Dublin so possibly wouldn’t commit to the county. I would be guessing he would be in the thoughts of the new management team for a trial anyway. He’s been a really effective player for Ballygunner in this 5 in a row run and has stepped up his game further this year definitely.

There won't be any trials

thesaturdayman

Alpha Centauri wrote: »

Good to see attendances up. Few good shots here

Great occasion to be fair.

How are we realistically going to host 10k plus munster games here however?

PTH2009

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Great occasion to be fair.

How are we realistically going to host 10k plus munster games here however?

Don't think it's possible

You have to take into account Waterford season ticket holders, away season ticket holders, sponsor tickets etc. Then if it's on TV a makeshift studio would have to go in somewhere

The banks could get way overcrowded

Deiseen

PTH2009 wrote: »

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Great occasion to be fair.

How are we realistically going to host 10k plus munster games here however?

Don't think it's possible

You have to take into account Waterford season ticket holders, away season ticket holders, sponsor tickets etc. Then if it's on TV a makeshift studio would have to go in somewhere

The banks could get way overcrowded

Where were all of those at Pairc na nGael?

mountgomery burns

Deiseen wrote: »

Where were all of those at Pairc na nGael?

There was still 12K in Limerick. There would definitely be a greater demand for a home game, I'd say there could be a 10K shortage if they were to hold it in Fraher Field. But dunno why this is even a discussion, it's never going to happen.

thesaturdayman

“The new cult is fraher field or forget it” the worldly wise words used by our chairman

Mastermcgrath

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Where were all of those at Pairc na nGael?

There was still 12K in Limerick. There would definitely be a greater demand for a home game, I'd say there could be a 10K shortage if they were to hold it in Fraher Field. But dunno why this is even a discussion, it's never going to happen.

Paddy Joe has put his own head on the block now by saying its 'Fraher Field or nowhere' so interesting to see how it all plays out. Then again he has a history of shooting his mouth off and having to backtrack on things

thesaturdayman

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

Paddy Joe has put his own head on the block now by saying its 'Fraher Field or nowhere' so interesting to see how it all plays out. Then again he has a history of shooting his mouth off and having to backtrack on things

He also said that the munster hurling championship format change “would be the worst decision in history of the Gaa “

Turns out to be the greatest in history!

I’m afraid our glorious leader is as bad a judge as Pontius Pilate!!

Mastermcgrath

thesaturdayman wrote: »

He also said that the munster hurling championship format change “would be the worst decision in history of the Gaa “

Turns out to be the greatest!

I’m afraid our glorious leader is as bad a judge as Pontius Pilot!

The thing is that it was and still is the worst decision ever as far as PJ and the Waterford co board was concerned, they knew they would be forced into coughing up for a stadium upgrade and that's what happened

blueflame

If my memory is correct PJ used a good old political escape route by saying "it is Fraher or forget it - but ultimately it is the Waterford Clubs that will decide where the game is played ...." All PJ and the County Board have to do is persuade the club delegates that after "mature reflection" it is in the best interests of the team, county board and supporters and we will be off on our travels yet again.......

To be honest I do not think Fraher Field is near up to it - I think health and safety would limit it to about 6k at maximum and if it is any sort of a wet run up to the games which is possible in this country , that could be slashed even further. I just think PJ's statement was designed to try show those in the West of the county that he was determined in his efforts to redevelop Fraher but even more so to take the emphasis off of what is a more realistic but even more difficult proposition of taking on Munster Council, and looking to play our home games for one year in Nolan Park.

Deiseen

blueflame wrote: »

If my memory is correct PJ used a good old political escape route by saying "it is Fraher or forget it - but ultimately it is the Waterford Clubs that will decide where the game is played ...." All PJ and the County Board have to do is persuade the club delegates that after "mature reflection" it is in the best interests of the team, county board and supporters and we will be off on our travels yet again.......

To be honest I do not think Fraher Field is near up to it - I think health and safety would limit it to about 6k at maximum and if it is any sort of a wet run up to the games which is possible in this country , that could be slashed even further. I just think PJ's statement was designed to try show those in the West of the county that he was determined in his efforts to redevelop Fraher but even more so to take the emphasis off of what is a more realistic but even more difficult proposition of taking on Munster Council, and looking to play our home games for one year in Nolan Park.

With a bit of work they could probably get Fraher up to 8k but that would require work to be started already... Which it hasnt...

willbeuptuesday

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Great occasion to be fair.

How are we realistically going to host 10k plus munster games here however?

Lads the most Fraher Field could hold is 7K with a brown envelope to the Health and Safety Authority!! The banks behind both goals had plenty of room for more people but in this day and age there is no way they will allow a large crown onto a grass bank. At the minimum they would expect it to be concreted and have safety barriers. Fraher Field is a non runner full stop, we need to be realistic as the county board don't have the money to pay for even small upgrades to the place. We have to suck it up and move to Thurles until Walsh Park is ready, not ideal but only stating the obvious.

Deiseen

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

thesaturdayman wrote: »

Great occasion to be fair.

How are we realistically going to host 10k plus munster games here however?

Lads the most Fraher Field could hold is 7K with a brown envelope to the Health and Safety Authority!! The banks behind both goals had plenty of room for more people but in this day and age there is no way they will allow a large crown onto a grass bank. At the minimum they would expect it to be concreted and have safety barriers. Fraher Field is a non runner full stop, we need to be realistic as the county board don't have the money to pay for even small upgrades to the place. We have to suck it up and move to Thurles until Walsh Park is ready, not ideal but only stating the obvious.

Concreting could be done wotb relatively no fuss or planning permission. Pay for it with money from two champ games.

deiseach

If the crowd is 5,000 in Fraher, so be it. All other things being equal, that's only going to be a few thousand down on the crowd that would turn up to the games against Clare and Limerick* in Thurles or Cork. And that's before a) Waterford fans boycott the games - I know I will be, ALL FOUR OF THEM - or b) Waterford boycott the games. #fraherorforgetit

*No, Limerick will not have a 10,000-strong contingent traipsing around the country after them for the whole of June. If anything, the attitude will be to wait for bigger days, a state of affairs about which they can be confident this year.

willbeuptuesday

I do not want to sound like a defender of the County board (As I believe they are holding the County back in so many ways with their continued amateurism) but people need to be more informed when it comes to finances. The County Board do not receive any of the Gate receipts from Championship games, they receive funds centrally for their participation in the Championship and all this money goes to running the board and relating matters. As far as I am aware we receive a % of the national league games (Could be open to correction on this) but their scope to raise money is limited. They need in my opinion a person dedicated to this function, a commercial officer similar to Wexford. This persons sole function is to develop and co-ordinate fundraising initiatives while developing the Waterford GAA Brand to exploit commercial opportunities which our high profile players can generate. This person would build relationships local small businesses as well as larger multinationals which could be mutually beneficial to all involved. This would drive Waterford GAA onto the next level.

thesaturdayman

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

I do not want to sound like a defender of the County board (As I believe they are holding the County back in so many ways with their continued amateurism) but people need to be more informed when it comes to finances. The County Board do not receive any of the Gate receipts from Championship games, they receive funds centrally for their participation in the Championship and all this money goes to running the board and relating matters. As far as I am aware we receive a % of the national league games (Could be open to correction on this) but their scope to raise money is limited. They need in my opinion a person dedicated to this function, a commercial officer similar to Wexford. This persons sole function is to develop and co-ordinate fundraising initiatives while developing the Waterford GAA Brand to exploit commercial opportunities which our high profile players can generate. This person would build relationships local small businesses as well as larger multinationals which could be mutually beneficial to all involved. This would drive Waterford GAA onto the next level.

Re Gate receipts - they would have made close to 100k from the county final.

Re their scope to raise money is limited - are you having a laugh! They used to have a race day fundraiser in punches town & made a complete balls of it, wexford took it over and cleared over 100k this year from it!

Similarly look at Cork (who have their issues) & Kilkenny well able to host big events such as concerts in their stadiums? Whilst they were getting Rod Stewart & Ed Sheeran we were getting Jedward & the high kings!! Those comparisons along musically are as accurate as anything off the field. Organised professionals against a rabble of amateurs!

hardybuck

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

I do not want to sound like a defender of the County board (As I believe they are holding the County back in so many ways with their continued amateurism) but people need to be more informed when it comes to finances. The County Board do not receive any of the Gate receipts from Championship games, they receive funds centrally for their participation in the Championship and all this money goes to running the board and relating matters. As far as I am aware we receive a % of the national league games (Could be open to correction on this) but their scope to raise money is limited. They need in my opinion a person dedicated to this function, a commercial officer similar to Wexford. This persons sole function is to develop and co-ordinate fundraising initiatives while developing the Waterford GAA Brand to exploit commercial opportunities which our high profile players can generate. This person would build relationships local small businesses as well as larger multinationals which could be mutually beneficial to all involved. This would drive Waterford GAA onto the next level.

Completely agree on the Commercial Manager point, I raised it myself a few weeks ago.

I've always wondered about the gate receipts bit - maybe you could shed light. Do the host county then get paid rent for the use of their stadium effectively then, or how does it work? Do you remember the fiasco a few years ago when Waterford tried to influence the venue of a Munster game by putting money on the table?

liogairmhordain

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

The banks behind both goals had plenty of room for more people but in this day and age there is no way they will allow a large crown onto a grass bank. At the minimum they would expect it to be concreted and have safety barriers.

it was allowed in navan twice this summer for the meath-tyrone and laois-monaghan qualifiers -

https://www.sportsfile.com/id/1532295/

https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1005506256180797442

not forgetting the waterford-monaghan football qualifier

https://www.dungarvangaa.ie/waterford-v-monaghan/

willbeuptuesday

Why could n't the county Board organise a race day in Tramore which benefits the clubs and the board.

This is how it should run, 7 race card with average of 10 horses per race, clubs could have more than one horse but not in the same race. That would mean that we have 70 horses running and it costs €2000 per horse which clubs would find a sponsor for and the €2000 is also their levy for the year, so they might as well pay it here. The winning horse wins €5k for their club and this leaves the county board with €105k in paid levys.

The negotiate a deal with the race course for ticket sales and aim to have a 60/20/20 split, eg.. 60% to race course 20% to CB and 20% to the clubs. The result of this is that clubs will push the tickets and all parties will see a big increase in sales. The benefits to all parties is as follows;

Tramore race Course - Bigger attendance equals bigger food/Drink and tote sales.
CB-No work in selling tickets and 20% take on these tickets is handy money.
Clubs- no organising of an event, just sell tickets and reap the rewards.

Additional sources of income; In tandem with the Race Day a separate Deise Day Business Day where local businesses can pitch stands in a specially erected Marquee, the County Boards Commercial Manager can organise this, these are big business and business see real value in buying a Pitch at one of these as all the patrons are local. An overall sponsor could be sourced for this and the potential to make money for the county board is huge. Relationships would be established with local businesses and more importantly will be managed by a professional who will follow up after the event. This Commercial expert can devise media strategies which we could link local business to Waterfords social media platforms (which need to be looked at urgently) but I promise there is serious money to be made here. If done right the Business side could raise as much as the race day itself. The best thing about this type of event is that it repeats itself annually and can be built upon annually!!

Clubs can make more money by getting the jockey sponsored and as a gesture of goodwill towards the clubs, the county board should get a good prize for a raffle which will be ran off on the day and all proceeds will be split equally amoung the clubs who get involved. This would give the clubs a badly needed boost.

I'm sure people have other ideas of how we can add to the day and I would love to hear them. But compare this to the Race day that already exists! Just an idea.

willbeuptuesday

Why could n't the county Board organise a race day in Tramore which benefits the clubs and the board.

This is how it should run, 7 race card with average of 10 horses per race, clubs could have more than one horse but not in the same race. That would mean that we have 70 horses running and it costs €2000 per horse which clubs would find a sponsor for and the €2000 is also their levy for the year, so they might as well pay it here. The winning horse wins €5k for their club and this leaves the county board with €105k in paid levys.

The negotiate a deal with the race course for ticket sales and aim to have a 60/20/20 split, eg.. 60% to race course 20% to CB and 20% to the clubs. The result of this is that clubs will push the tickets and all parties will see a big increase in sales. The benefits to all parties is as follows;

Tramore race Course - Bigger attendance equals bigger food/Drink and tote sales.
CB-No work in selling tickets and 20% take on these tickets is handy money.
Clubs- no organising of an event, just sell tickets and reap the rewards.

Additional sources of income; In tandem with the Race Day a separate Deise Day Business Day where local businesses can pitch stands in a specially erected Marquee, the County Boards Commercial Manager can organise this, these are big business and business see real value in buying a Pitch at one of these as all the patrons are local. An overall sponsor could be sourced for this and the potential to make money for the county board is huge. Relationships would be established with local businesses and more importantly will be managed by a professional who will follow up after the event. This Commercial expert can devise media strategies which we could link local business to Waterfords social media platforms (which need to be looked at urgently) but I promise there is serious money to be made here. If done right the Business side could raise as much as the race day itself. The best thing about this type of event is that it repeats itself annually and can be built upon annually!!

Clubs can make more money by getting the jockey sponsored and as a gesture of goodwill towards the clubs, the county board should get a good prize for a raffle which will be ran off on the day and all proceeds will be split equally amoung the clubs who get involved. This would give the clubs a badly needed boost.

I'm sure people have other ideas of how we can add to the day and I would love to hear them. But compare this to the Race day that already exists! Just an idea.

deiseach

Constructive suggestions on here? I think you're lost, willbeuptuesday.

mountgomery burns

hardybuck wrote: »

Completely agree on the Commercial Manager point, I raised it myself a few weeks ago.

Do you remember the fiasco a few years ago when Waterford tried to influence the venue of a Munster game by putting money on the table?

Was that not a case they were looking for a payoff and didn't get it?

Pretty sure they were compensated for allowing Tipp to have home advantage in the 2015 Munster final?

Mastermcgrath

liogairmhordain wrote: »

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

The banks behind both goals had plenty of room for more people but in this day and age there is no way they will allow a large crown onto a grass bank. At the minimum they would expect it to be concreted and have safety barriers.

it was allowed in navan twice this summer for the meath-tyrone and laois-monaghan qualifiers -

https://www.sportsfile.com/id/1532295/

https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1005506256180797442

not forgetting the waterford-monaghan football qualifier

https://www.dungarvangaa.ie/waterford-v-monaghan/

Blatantly not comparing like with like.... 
You think the crowd will be such that everyone will be lying back on the grass enjoying the sun like that picture in Navan? Were talking about Munster Senior Hurling Championship here,  high intensity occasion and demand for tickets would be be even more so given the novelty of the venue and there would be pressure to facilitate as many spectators as plausible.
Anything more than $5k would be a health and safety disaster. Can you envisage two or three thousand people up on the grassy bank on a p*****g wet day? It would be more like a ploughing match and people slipping in muck everywhere. 
Fraher or forget it... ??? More like Fraher just forget it

deiseach

Let's all agree that a crowd of 5,000 would be acceptable, which Fraher should be well able to hold based on the crowd last Sunday - given how many Under-16 got in for free, it was probably close to 5,000. What objection could a person from Waterford have to that?

JeffKenna

I'd much prefer to see Waterford get the advantage of a home game and not being able to get a ticket than getting a ticket for a "neutral" venue.

willbeuptuesday

Fair point!

3ships

it's the Munster Round Robin not the Munster Championship. The idea is to get to the Munster Final and/ or Croke Park ie the real championship. We play at home or not at all. There is still 2 big games to go to guaranteed in Cork and Tipp which is even more than before. Limerick are the ones who pushed thru this new format so they can have no complaints and as for Clare anyone up there last year will know what home advantage is all about.

Also remember the minors deserve a chance as well. We probably would have come out of Munster last year with home games.


So what about the capacity .. there was around 2/3 thousand from Waterford at games last year.

blueflame

Great points there "willbeuptuseday" and agree totally that there are great opportunities to raise funds if organised properly - however while we talk about appointing a new commercial manager - what about getting value from those who are already full-time employees and by all accounts reasonably well paid and looked after.

We hear a lot from the Co Board about they all being volunteers but that is not the case. From personal experience I have seen how when it came to handing out tickets, some of our officials were far more concerned about looking after personal cronies, many of whom could not give a toss about Waterford Hurling and were just band-wagoners, but got the best seats in Croker.

I am sure that there is a substantial hard core of Waterford supporters who can afford and would be willing to put their hands in their pockets and make a contribution annually if :

1. they were sure their contributions would be acknowledged and respected in some way
2. they were sure their contributions would be used properly and not wasted.

For example just 1,000 supporters from throughout the country - contributing €15.00 per month by direct debit (cost of 3 pints a month) - €180 per annum a year - that's €180,000 and you can be sure that these same people would support other ventures also. It is the comical amateur approach and total waste that prevents this kind of scheme from happening.

Deiseen

3ships wrote: »

it's the Munster Round Robin not the Munster Championship. The idea is to get to the Munster Final and/ or Croke Park ie the real championship. We play at home or not at all. There is still 2 big games to go to guaranteed in Cork and Tipp which is even more than before. Limerick are the ones who pushed thru this new format so they can have no complaints and as for Clare anyone up there last year will know what home advantage is all about.

Also remember the minors deserve a chance as well. We probably would have come out of Munster last year with home games.


So what about the capacity .. there was around 2/3 thousand from Waterford at games last year.

Would create a great buzz if there weren't enough tickets to go around, there'd be calls going around to get tickets like an All Ireland final!
If some fans can't go, then they can watch it on Telly! It's better than asking the same amount of fans to drive over 1.5 hours to our "home" game.

IanVW

https://twitter.com/iggyoregan/status/1050004975882067970?s=19

PTH2009

IanVW wrote: »

https://twitter.com/iggyoregan/status/1050004975882067970?s=19

All the best to him

Great servant who seemed to never give out as he was always sub goalie. Always gave it his best shot. Was it just me or was he sort of in a coaching role the last few seasons ??

So who should be the new sub goalie ?

DiscoStew

PTH2009 wrote: »

All the best to him

Great servant who seemed to never give out as he was always sub goalie. Always gave it his best shot. Was it just me or was he sort of in a coaching role the last few seasons ??

So who should be the new sub goalie ?

Billy Nolan surely the natural to come in to the role. Could possibly challenge for the starting spot even.

PTH2009

DiscoStew wrote: »

Billy Nolan surely the natural to come in to the role. Could possibly challenge for the starting spot even.

Ya never knw Ballygunner coild go on too win Munster (far from guaranteed Tbh) and we could be without the players for the 2019 league so the new goalkeepers could get a chance

Mastermcgrath

PTH2009 wrote: »

DiscoStew wrote: »

Billy Nolan surely the natural to come in to the role. Could possibly challenge for the starting spot even.

Ya never knw Ballygunner coild go on too win Munster (far from guaranteed Tbh) and we could be without the players for the 2019 league so the new goalkeepers could get a chance

Soky is a good keeper but could do with some competition to keep him on his toes. Not saying Iggy wasn't good competition for him but he was never going to dislodge soky. Nolan is a serious prospect however and Soky should be worried about his place if this lad got a run on the team.
As regards Ballygunner in Munster, I think its time for them to have a serious assault. For a team that have been so dominant at county level their record at provincial level has been poor. Im not sure what way the draw works after the the Cork champs (Midleton) game but with Thurles Sars gone from Tipp I think its wide open in Munster. Na Piarsaigh will be favourites to win Limerick and maybe Ballyea from Clare, but given how dominant Ballygunner have been at home they should have aspirations of overcoming whoever is thrown at them

KevIRL

'home' teams first

May 11/12: Cork v Tipperary; Waterford v Clare.

May 18/19: Limerick v Cork; Tipperary v Waterford.

May 25/26 or June 1/2: Waterford v Limerick; Clare v Tipperary.

June 8/9: Limerick v Clare; Cork v Waterford.

June 15/16: Clare v Cork; Tipperary v Limerick

whiteandblue

DiscoStew wrote: »

Billy Nolan surely the natural to come in to the role. Could possibly challenge for the starting spot even.

He doesn't even want to play in goal for his club so this may be an issue.

Limestone1

KevIRL wrote:

May 25/26 or June 1/2: Waterford v Limerick; Clare v Tipperary.

Presume both of these will be June 1/2 to avoid us or Tipp playing 3 weeks in a row

thesultan

I think that the fact that Hartley got rid of David O'Sullivan and Shane Walsh will cost them in Munster.

cul beag

thesultan wrote: »

I think that the fact that Hartley got rid of David O'Sullivan and Shane Walsh will cost them in Munster.

Got rid of? Maybe a bit hasty with that!

Motivator

thesultan wrote: »

I think that the fact that Hartley got rid of David O'Sullivan and Shane Walsh will cost them in Munster.

What’s the backstory here?

PTH2009

any truth to Iggy staying on as Goalkeeping coach ???

KevIRL

PTH2009 wrote: »

any truth to Iggy staying on as Goalkeeping coach ???

Yeah he is.

PTH2009

biggest match of the weekend is the County Intermediate Hurling final between Clonea and Clashmore/Kinsalebeg taking place at 2.30 on Sunday 14th Oct in Fraher Field

hard one to call but hoping Clashmore win it and go to senior for next season. Final experience might be there downfall as Clonea have been in the county final last year losing out to An Rinn

PTH2009

Senior footballers will face Clare in the 2019 Munster QF. Kerry will face the winners in the semi final

thesaturdayman

PTH2009 wrote: »

biggest match of the weekend is the County Intermediate Hurling final between Clonea and Clashmore/Kinsalebeg taking place at 2.30 on Sunday 14th Oct in Fraher Field

hard one to call but hoping Clashmore win it and go to senior for next season. Final experience might be there downfall as Clonea have been in the county final last year losing out to An Rinn

Clonea will win well enough I would suspect.

PTH2009

Our Munster senior schedule according to RTE
11/12 May- Clare (H)
18/19 May- Tipp (A)
Off
1/2 June- Limerick (H)
8/9 June- Cork (A)

So it's possible we will be out of the championship even earlier in 2019 than we were in 2018. Really hate this new calender

JeffKenna

PTH2009 wrote: »

So it's possible we will be out of the championship even earlier in 2019 than we were in 2018. Really hate this new calender

Not with our home games in the fortress that is Fraher Field!

thesaturdayman

JeffKenna wrote: »

Not with our home games in the fortress that is Fraher Field!

No chance they’ll be there. Be doing the GAA out of 15 - 20 k punters @ 20 a man.

killbillvol2

thesaturdayman wrote: »

No chance they’ll be there. Be doing the GAA out of 15 - 20 k punters @ 20 a man.

Talking through your hole again. So you think there would be 20/25.000 at either of our "home" games if we played outside the county. Get a grip.