Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Stacksofwacks

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

I always said there needs to be some form of playoff system for the bottom two teams in each group and replace the one team that comes out of that play off with the joe McDonagh cup runner up

I'd have 4th v 4th and the Joe McDonagh winners in AI preliminary qf

Stopitwillya

Deisefacts wrote: »

Deisefacts wrote: »

Christ I must be living in a different county or at different games over the last few weeks then some of the commentators on here. We are physically not up to competing with the top 4/5 teams in hurling. In the famed words of the Derry girls “ catch yereselfs onâ€. Derek knows this, hence the reason he played a sweeper, other teams copped on to this and we got exposed for it. I don’t blame Derek for trying to sweeper system with the players he had at his disposal. Paraic is trying to not use an out and out sweeper but is trying to crowd out certain areas of the pitch with the players he has( which is basically the same as Derek minus 2/3 players) and was hoping brick might win Some puc outs on Sunday, but sadly bricks best days are behind him with a year or 2. Brick has been a brilliant servant to the county over the years but I genuinely believe he needs to step away from the panel immediately. Dublin showed us we couldn’t compete with the physical teams. Clare didn’t want to beat us in Walsh Park and give us ammunition.you could clearly see the Clare lads or management didn’t give a toss about the result at the end but were taking in all the celebrations we were doing. How Galway lost the semi final is still a mystery to me? They should’ve been out of sight at 1/2 time and have forward problems of their own.
In my opinion we’ve major problems that aren’t being addressed by the county board.
1) poorly structured club championships from adult to underage. There is a Serious unwillingness for club supporters to attend their own club games. Why? So if people won’t go to their club games they definitely won’t go to intercounty matches where they don’t have any great connection with the players having not seen them at club level. If you ask the majority of players playing in the club championships they will tell you they’ve lost interest in it over the last 6/7 years. It doesn’t matter to some if they win lose or draw. Some are only too delighted to be gone out of championship before they start college in September as it interferes with their social lives in college if they’ve to come back home for training during the week
2) underage age development is gone through the floor. Is it because you can’t get the right people involved anymore? You have to have all these coaching badges, Garda vetting, child welfare, child protection courses, etc etc to train a juvenile team in a club and from what I see the majority of club teams(juvenile) have the wrong person training these teams and hence they get involved with development squads and therefore the standard coming into county set ups over the last 2/3 years has been average to say the least.
Underage championships are also poor. Last years minor club hurling championship for instance, there was more teams in the 3rd division 13 a side championship then there was in divisions 1-2. Then the county secretary( without any direction from the clubs) decide to make 2 groups of east and west. It was voted on a few years ago that all underage championships would be run on a county wide basis. Why did he do it?

These are just a few observations I think if we can correct them will make a difference in future years. Is there will power from the top table to make the necessary changes? Do the top table recognize the problems with underage in the county? Are they only looking at the here and now and are happy to take victories like the Galway one which papers over the cracks and keeps the Monday morning radio people happy?
I stay back for the Kerry/mayo game yesterday and got talking to a friend of mine from the city and he made some great points regarding the developments which will go on in Walsh Park, he made a great comment at the end that the most expensive thing in Walsh Park will be the merry go round for the board officers to get on and off at the various different jobs they want. We need new ideas from fresh minds.

I still stand over these comments. And after seeing our minor team beaten by a Clare team with 8 u-16s on it to say I’m worried about the future is an understatement. Over the last few weeks our underage development squads have received massive hammerings from divisional squads of other counties.
Was there any player u-23 on our panel today. We’ve now a situation were we’ve 4/5yrs of no one coming through from minor teams. If we are not careful we could end up as the Offaly of Munster and be talking about past glories.
Over the last 10 yrs we’ve received nearly €1m ( 2nd highest behind cork in Munster despite having the fewest clubs in Munster)from croke park towards coaching and games. Have we got value for money? What’s going on at juvenile level? Who is involved in coaching & games from board level? Who is over coaching and games? What are board Na og doing?
In my opinion there is 2 officers on the board that need to be removed with immediate effect ( they aren’t doing the jobs they were appointed to do) and there is also 2 members of deise og that need to be removed straight away ( the job is too big for them and they are completely out of their dept).
We can’t accept things anymore and need to change our underage structures.

Deisefacts, looking back over your posts it is fairly clear that you are either Tom Flynn or one of his management team that earlier in the year resigned from being in charge of the county minor football team.
Your posts are full of bitterness towards the county board. Reality is they got the right people over the minor football team in the end and done better than expected as a result.
In another post you give out about them appointing Benji whelan, saying are they trying to kill football in Waterford. Well Benji is doing a great job so far.
We all like to give out about the county board and they are very amateurish at times but will you acknowledge the great job they did today.
Also look over at the Clare forum. High expectations for their minor team. Wasn't much between the two teams today. So Waterford are competing at minor level, much like last year's team who had some good results.
Time to lose the bitterness and show some positivity Tom.

Jjjjjjjbarry

Maybe someone can pull stats but I don't think Mahony has been a 9/10 free taker since before he broke his leg. I'm not too confident on Bennett taking them for the year though. He didn't miss any for a few games there in the Munster League and National League but has gone a bit erratic and unreliable and I was expecting to see Mahony on them today to be honest. He would've missed one or two today too though I"m sure.

Lot of panic reactions here to be honest. It was a poor performance but bloody hell, we're now written off for the next ten years? Minors are only under 17 now so will have good days and bad days. We saw that in the Munster Championship last year so hopefully they will improve. The minor team management seemed a bit naive as they waited too long to stop the short puck outs which killed us.

We've a big problem in our half forward line and I don't see how we're going to fix it. It's the main reason Gleeson has to play there and not centre back.

spideyman92

We're really missing out on Devine this year. He may not be the best out there but he added a different element to the forwards compared to the two Bennett's, Hogan, Ryan etc. They're fine hurlers in their own right but they're all very similar nippy quick hurlers and lack that imposing presence. Maurice is an option too but the management seems to only want to give him a few token minutes at the end of games rather than really throwing him in to change things up.

Jjjjjjjbarry

Did we go for goals too early at the end? We were lobbing balls in with 5 minutes to go and 5 minutes of injury time then. There was some serious confusion about who'd take those 21 yard frees. I thought at the time we were right to go for them as Paul Flynn once said, you don't get too many chances for a free shot but in hindsight we still needed a few points too. Hard to know what to do

Jjjjjjjbarry

God help our full back line next weekend with Bubbles, Callanan and John McGrath all on form. The only hope we have is to stop the supply but Tipp's half back line of the three Mahers were all on form too. It could be a long day so we need to regroup quickly and get the tactics spot on.

Deisefacts

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Deisefacts, looking back over your posts it is fairly clear that you are either Tom Flynn or one of his management team that earlier in the year resigned from being in charge of the county minor football team.
Your posts are full of bitterness towards the county board. Reality is they got the right people over the minor football team in the end and done better than expected as a result.
In another post you give out about them appointing Benji whelan, saying are they trying to kill football in Waterford. Well Benji is doing a great job so far.
We all like to give out about the county board and they are very amateurish at times but will you acknowledge the great job they did today.
Also look over at the Clare forum. High expectations for their minor team. Wasn't much between the two teams today. So Waterford are competing at minor level, much like last year's team who had some good results.
Time to lose the bitterness and show some positivity Tom.

I’d go again. But I know Tom well. Yes Benji and his management have done superb work in the league and were very unlucky last night and in fairness to him he has given every one that wants to play football for Waterford a great chance. I totally disagree with you regarding the minor management, they done well and fair dues to them considering the circumstances, but I feel if Tom and his management team were left in place Waterford would’ve reached the “b” final at the least. Whilst I’d have similar views to Tom with regard to what’s going on at under age his support of paddyjoe is misguided and I’ve told him so on many an occasion. He knows who I am and you should ask him if you are that desperate to find out

Stopitwillya

I think if we had played the match today in a 50,000 or 60,000 seater stadium out in carrignore Waterford would have won the game easily. We could have had a Bruce Springsteen concert or maybe U2 to look forward to as well. I blame paddy joe for not having us playing in a massive stadium.

Stacksofwacks

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Maybe someone can pull stats but I don't think Mahony has been a 9/10 free taker since before he broke his leg. I'm not too confident on Bennett taking them for the year though. He didn't miss any for a few games there in the Munster League and National League but has gone a bit erratic and unreliable and I was expecting to see Mahony on them today to be honest. He would've missed one or two today too though I"m sure.

Lot of panic reactions here to be honest. It was a poor performance but bloody hell, we're now written off for the next ten years? Minors are only under 17 now so will have good days and bad days. We saw that in the Munster Championship last year so hopefully they will improve. The minor team management seemed a bit naive as they waited too long to stop the short puck outs which killed us.

We've a big problem in our half forward line and I don't see how we're going to fix it. It's the main reason Gleeson has to play there and not centre back.

Yes Mahony could have missed one or 2 and had a bad day but in a one point loss you have to ask would it have made the difference. Stephen is a good free taker and had a good league but sentiment and loyalty on league form shouldnt come into it, Paudie should be the free taker all day long and over the last 6 or 7 years he hasnt let us down, the sf replay in 16 that dropped short but was a difficult one. Not impressed at all that something so basic the management would make the wrong decision on

Jjjjjjjbarry

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Yes Mahony could have missed one or 2 and had a bad day but in a one point loss you have to ask would it have made the difference. Stephen is a good free taker and had a good league but sentiment and loyalty on league form shouldnt come into it, Paudie should be the free taker all day long and over the last 6 or 7 years he hasnt let us down, the sf replay in 16 that dropped short but was a difficult one. Not impressed at all that something so basic the management would make the wrong decision on

Yeah I'd have to agree. I would've had him on them too as at least the occasion won't be the thing that stops him scoring. I just read somewhere else too that Mahony was one of our top scorers from play last year.

Stacksofwacks

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Yeah I'd have to agree. I would've had him on them too as at least the occasion won't be the thing that stops him scoring. I just read somewhere else too that Mahony was one of our top scorers from play last year.

I assume your being sarcastic but thats a bit harsh. He normally gets a few points from play but was quiet today. He links up well and sets up scores aswell, well worth his place in the team

Jjjjjjjbarry

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Yeah I'd have to agree. I would've had him on them too as at least the occasion won't be the thing that stops him scoring. I just read somewhere else too that Mahony was one of our top scorers from play last year.

I assume your being sarcastic but thats a bit harsh. He normally gets a few points from play but was quiet today. He links up well and sets up scores aswell, well worth his place in the team

I was being serious.

Stacksofwacks

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

I was being serious.

Ok

Jjjjjjjbarry

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

I was being serious.

Ok

He was awful today and not on the frees so should have come off earlier. I would have put him on the frees from the start though. Might have been different, might not. He’s not the free taker he used to be but still trust worthy. Hope that explains better.
I did read somewhere else that he was one of our top scorers from play last year. Don’t know if it’s true but we rotated a lot so maybe it’s true as he’d normally get one or two per game,

Stacksofwacks

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

He was awful today and not on the frees so should have come off earlier. I would have put him on the frees from the start though. Might have been different, might not. He’s not the free taker he used to be but still trust worthy. Hope that explains better.
I did read somewhere else that he was one of our top scorers from play last year. Don’t know if it’s true but we rotated a lot so maybe it’s true as he’d normally get one or two per game,

He's not a flashy hurler but does the simple things very well, I'd like to see him bulk up and add more physicality to his game, he's a tall enough lad so Id like to see him bring a more physical presence, but for his free taking alone he is an asset

PTH2009

So what about that line ball near the end that was shown too be clearly ours but awarded too Clare

KevIRL

PTH2009 wrote: »

So what about that line ball near the end that was shown too be clearly ours but awarded too Clare

A non issue. Can't believe they made a fuss of a line ball decision on the Sunday game.

blueflame

Obviously disappointed with the result and the performance but if you are going to lose your opening game, by a point is the way to do it i.e. minimum scoring difference that could provide vital in a tight group.

Thought we let the occasion get to us yesterday and took an age to settle whereas Clare hit the ground running. When James Owen threw the ball in Noelle Connors was running past the midfield trying to get into position while Shame O'Donnell was screaming for the ball all on his on. Their goal was a complete calamity with absolutely nobody home and it took the whole sting out of the home crowd. It was still very small margins at full time, such as Micheal Kearney's late in the second half that was disputed by some people as being over

Most disappointing things for me yesterday were:

1. we made a number of unforced errors with two particularly poor passes aimed at DeBurca who was in miles of space and ready to launch an attack ending up as soft scores for Clare. Minimum two point turn around with possible four point turn around and in a game of tight margins that is very poor.

2. Failure of Management to address glaring problems from early on, Michael Kearney as a roving center forward is not working, not saying Kearney is not good enough or should be dropped, but should not be playing as a Center forward.

3. Playing Aussie as our only target in half forward line is allowing opposition to anticipate majority of puck outs and crowd the space around him. Why not put Maurice as a really viable ball winning option on the other wing .

4. Not sure about all this talk about Paudie as an unmissable free taker. in my memory he has missed quite a few "nailed on" frees at vital times in games. However he is a very good hurler and can score from play, but he is not a wing forward. He does not have that burning pace or aerial superiority to regularly beat a tight marking wing back. However he is in my mind excellent at dropping off and finding space that hurts teams - and could pose a real problem for opposing center back much as Noel McGrath used to do.

5. Think we need to look at Shane Bennett out the field as he seem to behind his man all the time coming out for decent ball, and for a corner forward that is inexcusable - would we get more from him out the field?


On the positives however, it was good to see Conor Gleeson and Shane Fives back and was impressed with the contribution of both considering the long-layoff they had. Prunty had a hell of a tough championship debut but I thought done really well on Conlon who is a tough and experienced campaigner. Patrick Curran and Maurice impressed from the bench with the short time they had in the game and could have pulled it out of the fire.

So we go to Tipp next week and we can decide we are going to have a real go like last year or are we going to try and contain them? Despite popular opinion i believe the tightness of Walsh Park does not suit us particularly our forwards. It is early days on the back of a lot of expectation having hurled most of the year against a much lower standard that required. I for one will travel to Thurles in hope, not foolish expectation, but genuine hope, next Sunday

Bluezar

I was disappointed with the performance overall yesterday and just felt there was too many of our players that did not turn up. Pauric Mahony, Peter Hogan, Mikey Kearney to name a few were anonymous and never got into the game.
I thought Clare were full value for the win and we could not cope with the genius of Tony Kelly and Shane O'Donnell.

I think it's important we don't go overboard and start having a go at the management after one championship game and a good league campaign but it did seem to me that changes were not made fast enough to get us into the game. Maurice and Tommy Ryan could have been introduced earlier to freshen things up so hopefully Fanning and his team will learn a lot from yesterday.

Tipp were outstanding yesterday and it is going to be a real uphill battle to get something from the game next week. Their forwards were brilliant and it is going to take a heroic performance to keep them quiet.

The pitch looked fantastic yesterday and it was a real buzz to get to see us play a home championship game (even though it's an away day for me living in Dublin). I did feel the atmosphere was a bit flat though compared to what we get on a big day in Thurles.
Minor thing but I was sitting in the city end of the stand and I could not believe they could even fix the lights in the toilets under the mains stand for such a big occasion!

Gardner

Agree with most people’s view in regards to Clare been the better side. Few points:

1. Shane Bennett was struggling after about 15 to 20 minutes into the game. Ankle injury and McInerney cleaned him out. Very surprised he lasted so long.

2. Mahoney needs to start centre forward. He doesn’t have the pace for a wing forward or the extended work load. Centre Forward suits him down to the ground. Also keep him on the frees.

3. Whoever on the line told Gleeson and Bennett to go for goal for the two 21 yard frees needs to take responsibility. There was under 4 minutes of normal time remaining with an unknown amount of injury time to be played. Stick the 2 balls over the bar and drive on. If Gleeson free went over the bar it would have been a draw and a draw we wouldn’t have deserved but we would have taken it.

4. Team the next day needs to match up with Tipp all over the field and go man to man in the middle third. It’s essential we do our upmost to dominate this area.

Team for Sunday vs Tipp

Sok

S.Fives
Prunty
Connors (if fit)

Mahoney
De Burca
Moran

Barron
C. Gleeson

A.Gleeson
Mahoney
Shanahan

Curran
Stephen Bennett
T. Ryan

It’s essential our half forward line are ball winners and an inside forward line with plenty of pace and have wide open ground in front of them.

DiscoStew

blueflame wrote: »

Obviously disappointed with the result and the performance but if you are going to lose your opening game, by a point is the way to do it i.e. minimum scoring difference that could provide vital in a tight group.

Thought we let the occasion get to us yesterday and took an age to settle whereas Clare hit the ground running. When James Owen threw the ball in Noelle Connors was running past the midfield trying to get into position while Shame O'Donnell was screaming for the ball all on his on. Their goal was a complete calamity with absolutely nobody home and it took the whole sting out of the home crowd. It was still very small margins at full time, such as Micheal Kearney's late in the second half that was disputed by some people as being over

Most disappointing things for me yesterday were:

1. we made a number of unforced errors with two particularly poor passes aimed at DeBurca who was in miles of space and ready to launch an attack ending up as soft scores for Clare. Minimum two point turn around with possible four point turn around and in a game of tight margins that is very poor.

2. Failure of Management to address glaring problems from early on, Michael Kearney as a roving center forward is not working, not saying Kearney is not good enough or should be dropped, but should not be playing as a Center forward.

3. Playing Aussie as our only target in half forward line is allowing opposition to anticipate majority of puck outs and crowd the space around him. Why not put Maurice as a really viable ball winning option on the other wing .

4. Not sure about all this talk about Paudie as an unmissable free taker. in my memory he has missed quite a few "nailed on" frees at vital times in games. However he is a very good hurler and can score from play, but he is not a wing forward. He does not have that burning pace or aerial superiority to regularly beat a tight marking wing back. However he is in my mind excellent at dropping off and finding space that hurts teams - and could pose a real problem for opposing center back much as Noel McGrath used to do.

5. Think we need to look at Shane Bennett out the field as he seem to behind his man all the time coming out for decent ball, and for a corner forward that is inexcusable - would we get more from him out the field?


On the positives however, it was good to see Conor Gleeson and Shane Fives back and was impressed with the contribution of both considering the long-layoff they had. Prunty had a hell of a tough championship debut but I thought done really well on Conlon who is a tough and experienced campaigner. Patrick Curran and Maurice impressed from the bench with the short time they had in the game and could have pulled it out of the fire.

So we go to Tipp next week and we can decide we are going to have a real go like last year or are we going to try and contain them? Despite popular opinion i believe the tightness of Walsh Park does not suit us particularly our forwards. It is early days on the back of a lot of expectation having hurled most of the year against a much lower standard that required. I for one will travel to Thurles in hope, not foolish expectation, but genuine hope, next Sunday

The most balanced piece of analysis I have seen here since the game. Looking ahead at possible changes for the Tipp game and given their big win yesterday I would hope to see something along these lines.
SoK,
McNulty, Prunty, Fives
Moran, TdB, Philip
Conor Gleeson, Barron
Shane B, Paudie, Aussie
Stephen, Maurice, Ryan

You could make a case for swapping Moran and Conor Gleeson possibly but Moran was superb all league at wing back. Shane Bennett possibly lucky to stay in the team but if we could get him running at what isn’t the quickest Tipp half back line he could get some joy.
Yesterday was a disappointing day all around. A brilliant start to rise the crowd with a long range Aussie point was totally cancelled out by Clare’s early goal, and more so the nature of it. The crowd was very quiet but had little to get excited about in that first half. If Stephen Bennett had managed to find the net with his flick it could have been a very different game.
The changes were definitely a little slow to come although at least they made one change at half time. Maurice certainly needed to feature earlier as we attempted to go direct. Paudie and Kearney were very lucky to stay on longer than Barron although Jamie wasn’t at his most influential yesterday.
Some of the over reaction has been incredible though. As has the abuse of Mikey Kearney. He had an excellent league campaign and his inclusion was never questioned here. But one bad performance where he actually scored a point, had 2 very debatable wides, 1 of which was called back for a free, and won 1 converted free and there is allegations of nepotism.
It’s a wonder fellas bother at all.

Mastermcgrath

Management will have learned a lot and hopefully they learned a bit more about themselves aswell.

Looking ahead to next week, Soky will retain no 1 spot even if he did give a few hospital balls

In the fb line I think Prunty impressed on his debut and held his own well against Conlon. Fives has to start for me whether it’s in place of McNulty (who did ok tbf) or Connors is fine with me

In the half back line Philip was one of our best players on the day and TDB came thundering into the second half. Moran’s stray pass in the second half is unforgivable stuff at this level and I’d have him further up the field out of harms way and move Conor Gleeson back to wing back who is more of a defender and has better distribution

Surprised with the decision to withdraw Barron as while it wasn’t his best game he was taking the game to Clare at least. I’d move Moran alongside him. In the forwards I’d have Aussie at 11 and Maurice one one wing. Give us that aerial strength lacking in half forwards.

I’d make the bold move on dropping Mahoney with Mikey Kearney or Shane Bennett on the other wing with Stevie Bennett and Ryan in the FF line with maybe Curran aswell

DiscoStew

Gardner wrote: »

3. Whoever on the line told Gleeson and Bennett to go for goal for the two 21 yard frees needs to take responsibility. There was under 4 minutes of normal time remaining with an unknown amount of injury time to be played. Stick the 2 balls over the bar and drive on. If Gleeson free went over the bar it would have been a draw and a draw we wouldn’t have deserved but we would have taken it.

We got 2 points from the 2 frees, Aussies was put out for a 65 which Bennett put over, Stephens free was deflected over.

Mastermcgrath

DiscoStew wrote: »

The most balanced piece of analysis I have seen here since the game. Looking ahead at possible changes for the Tipp game and given their big win yesterday I would hope to see something along these lines.
SoK,
McNulty, Prunty, Fives
Moran, TdB, Philip
Conor Gleeson, Barron
Shane B, Paudie, Aussie
Stephen, Maurice, Ryan

You could make a case for swapping Moran and Conor Gleeson possibly but Moran was superb all league at wing back. Shane Bennett possibly lucky to stay in the team but if we could get him running at what isn’t the quickest Tipp half back line he could get some joy.
Yesterday was a disappointing day all around. A brilliant start to rise the crowd with a long range Aussie point was totally cancelled out by Clare’s early goal, and more so the nature of it. The crowd was very quiet but had little to get excited about in that first half. If Stephen Bennett had managed to find the net with his flick it could have been a very different game.
The changes were definitely a little slow to come although at least they made one change at half time. Maurice certainly needed to feature earlier as we attempted to go direct. Paudie and Kearney were very lucky to stay on longer than Barron although Jamie wasn’t at his most influential yesterday.
Some of the over reaction has been incredible though. As has the abuse of Mikey Kearney. He had an excellent league campaign and his inclusion was never questioned here. But one bad performance where he actually scored a point, had 2 very debatable wides, 1 of which was called back for a free, and won 1 converted free and there is allegations of nepotism.
It’s a wonder fellas bother at all.

My thoughts on changes exactly!

Except I’d have either Mikey or Shane B in the half forward line. Don’t think there’s room for both in the forwards

Jjjjjjjbarry

I don't know what Tommy Ryan has to do to get more starts. He was fantastic all year and only got dropped to give Hogan a run when he came back from Ballygunner duty. Now Hogan did OK but for me he didn't do anything to nudge Ryan out of the starting 15.

I think Prunty did well. The Sunday game highlights showed that he wasn't really at fault for the goal. O'Donnell won the ball ahead of Connors and Prunty came out to block him down. Connors should have dropped back to cover Conlon when Prunty went to O'Donnell but instead went after him too and left Conlon on his own.

Jjjjjjjbarry

DiscoStew wrote: »

The most balanced piece of analysis I have seen here since the game. Looking ahead at possible changes for the Tipp game and given their big win yesterday I would hope to see something along these lines.
SoK,
McNulty, Prunty, Fives
Moran, TdB, Philip
Conor Gleeson, Barron
Shane B, Paudie, Aussie
Stephen, Maurice, Ryan

I'd go for that team too. One thing to note is that Dj Foran did really well against Tipp last year so it's a shame his form wasn't great in the league as we could do with his height and running ability against them.

Ropaire

I remember going to games as a kid and the noise, flags and air horns made it look and sound like we were going to war. The atmosphere was pathetic in Walsh Park yesterday, you could hear a pin drop for most of the game. Looks like we have forgotten how to support the team, a few players were trying to gee up the crowd and the extra lift it would surely have given them would we worth at least the point needed for a draw. You watch Munster and the like where the crowd really is a 16th man and there was nothing of the sort for the first home game in donkeys years, Clare made more noise.

Would start Maurice if he's fit on the wing vs tipp, move pauric to center forward with aussie on the other wing, Curran, Stephen Bennett and Tommy Ryan inside. Fives on for McNulty in the backs and the rest as you were.

Deisegodeo

Hugely disappointing defeat, really thought we would hit the ground running and do enough to get the win after a good league campaign.

We just looked flat and clueless in the first half, like the pace of championship hurling caught us off guard. The energy and focus shown in the last 10 minutes just wasn't there, particularly in the first half. Fellas standing waiting for passes instead of moving to the ball, fellas not ready for passes, second to 50/50 balls. I just can't understand how under cooked we seemed from the throw in.

And clearly the changes were way too late as Well, in fairness some of the changes did seem to work out but they should have been made much earlier when the team was clearly struggling.

So many below par performances from lads we need motoring to have any chance. We need massive improvement from so many if we are to have any chance in the up coming games.

Rasputin11

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Maybe someone can pull stats but I don't think Mahony has been a 9/10 free taker since before he broke his leg. I'm not too confident on Bennett taking them for the year though. He didn't miss any for a few games there in the Munster League and National League but has gone a bit erratic and unreliable and I was expecting to see Mahony on them today to be honest. He would've missed one or two today too though I"m sure.


Lot of panic reactions here to be honest. It was a poor performance but bloody hell, we're now written off for the next ten years? Minors are only under 17 now so will have good days and bad days. We saw that in the Munster Championship last year so hopefully they will improve. The minor team management seemed a bit naive as they waited too long to stop the short puck outs which killed us.

We've a big problem in our half forward line and I don't see how we're going to fix it. It's the main reason Gleeson has to play there and not centre back.

Derek McGrath stated at a hurling preview night on Friday that O Mahony only missed 5 frees in 5 years. I thought to myself at the time that it sounded highly unlikely.

enoughtaken

Taken from a comment on Tipp Forum

"I have little or no fear of that Waterford team to be honest. We could rack up 30 points on them next Sunday as they simply won’t mark our marquee sticksmen. They pretty much let tony kelly do what he wanted yesterday and how they got so close to Clare in the end is a mystery. It’s the most ideal fixture we could have to be honest and could see us effectively qualified on the 19th May. So different to last year. And a bonus would be sending the blahs closer to elimination.

As for attendance I’d say 20-25 max. "

friendlyfun

enoughtaken wrote: »

Taken from a comment on Tipp Forum

"I have little or no fear of that Waterford team to be honest. We could rack up 30 points on them next Sunday as they simply won’t mark our marquee sticksmen. They pretty much let tony kelly do what he wanted yesterday and how they got so close to Clare in the end is a mystery. It’s the most ideal fixture we could have to be honest and could see us effectively qualified on the 19th May. So different to last year. And a bonus would be sending the blahs closer to elimination.

As for attendance I’d say 20-25 max. "

Jaysus hope we bate them for that salty comment

deiseach

Anyone have any insight to the wheelchair facilities they've installed at the Keane's Road end of the stand? The mere fact that they are there is worthy of applause, although it would be interesting to know how they worked in the real world.

Gardner

DiscoStew wrote: »

We got 2 points from the 2 frees, Aussies was put out for a 65 which Bennett put over, Stephens free was deflected over.

100% wrong! Curran was fouled on the 66:47m of the game and Austin struck it 68:02m and and resulting 65 was played to TDB and he lost possession and the next free that was awarded was exactly on the 69m mark.
Bennett should have hit it over the bar and get the game going again we were well on top. valuable time lost. that's the fine margins in hurling a decision that cost us a draw.

KevIRL

A lot has been covered already, we were badly off the pace yesterday and with litle to no physicality in our play too, pushed off the ball all to easily and mostly second to the ball anyway. Hard to think of any Waterford player beside Austin who actually had a good game. Some very poor decisions on the line regarding subs and also the call to go for goal from that free at the end was madness.

One thing I noticed pre-game was that Waterford finished their warm up at 1.55, five mins before throw in. The subs left the field and the team were left just pucking around for 3-4 mins before hastily getting into a huddle just as the national anthem was about to start. It seemed like the planning was wrong, we were then caught cold for that early goal and that lack of planning seemed to be in all of our play and tactics for nearly the whole game.

Worrying thing for me is that the scoreline doesnt show how we were beaten all over the park on Sunday and I would be very concerned that we get a right trimming this coming Sunday Thurles.

Depressing.

Jjjjjjjbarry

While we were bad yesterday and Tipp looked fantastic, it was only one game.
We all know that there's not much between the top teams on any given day. I didn't see the full game from Cork but I've heard the Cork defence was a shambles. On our day, we've as good a defence as any and I've no doubt we'll give them a run for their money. The key part is probably stopping the supply into them and not letting their half back line dominate.

We've seen it every year, one good game and the pundits make the winners All Ireland favourites and few games later the writing was on the cards that 'the bench wasn't strong enough' or some other reason.

Let's just see how the next round goes! I'll be up in Thurles expecting a win. I don't know how we're going to do it but I just know that it's very very possible.

shockframe

The new format has come at the wrong time for Waterford.

The back door for all teams from 2002 onwards was a major part of their revival when Mullane, Kelly,Prendergast emerged but Waterfords recent good form has come to the end of its cycle by the looks of it.

Thought they would be a lot better given how decent the minor scene was the first half of the decade.

Fred C Dobbs

Taken from a comment on Tipp Forum

"I have little or no fear of that Waterford team to be honest. We could rack up 30 points on them next Sunday as they simply won’t mark our marquee sticksmen. They pretty much let tony kelly do what he wanted yesterday and how they got so close to Clare in the end is a mystery. It’s the most ideal fixture we could have to be honest and could see us effectively qualified on the 19th May. So different to last year. And a bonus would be sending the blahs closer to elimination.


tbf, I would be fairly confident too if I was a Tipp supporter. Hopefully, that arrogance will seep through to the team but unlikely given Tipps manager and back up personnel.

I would say most of the Waterford team/management are hurting (mentally) for underachieving yesterday. I will travel to Thurles expecting a backlash but fearing the worst (I know its only one game down ... blah blah blah and hope I'm wrong but expecting another early exit stage left).

hurler on de ditch

friendlyfun wrote: »

Jaysus hope we bate them for that salty comment

yeh.who the fu*k spells Blaa with a H

BloodyBill

Thank you Waterford. A fantastic place to visit for a night. As a Clareman it was double the fun. Took 2 points and the Viking triangle,had that blaa bread and Chester cake and the wife tried the fizzy bottle of Guinness. We dont get that in the midwest. Plenty left in that Waterford team. They just started very badly and Clare are very hard to reel in.

Jjjjjjjbarry

Rasputin11 wrote: »

Derek McGrath stated at a hurling preview night on Friday that O Mahony only missed 5 frees in 5 years. I thought to myself at the time that it sounded highly unlikely.

I'd find that very hard to believe too. Even Pat Horgan would do extremely well to limit himself to one missed free per year.

Jjjjjjjbarry

Jasus all the "I told you so" Derek haters are very quiet today

deiseach

Christ, we're a glass-half-empty bunch.

Jjjjjjjbarry

I was in the stand but heard there was some sort of seating provided in the terraces for those who didn't have a rail but wanted to sit for a break. Sounds odd.. any truth in that?

Jjjjjjjbarry

deiseach wrote: »

Christ, we're a glass-half-empty bunch.

Only one game played. Nothing won or lost yet. Uphill battle for us now but that can all change if we win at the weekend. Let's see how game two goes.

blueflame

If i remember correctly Mahony had a mare in a qualifier against Offaly one year when he missed about 5 in one game, never mind 5 in 5 years, so would have serious doubts on Derek's figures. He missed a vital one in the All Ireland final against Galway alongside the one against KK and that is without even trying to pick holes. He had a mare for Ballygunner against Na Piarsaigh last year in the Munster Final This is not a cheap shot against Mahoney, as he is a relally consistent free taker but he is human as opposed to the way he is portrayed by some people. Like many others has had his off days and he has his misses.

I still believe he is an excellent hurler who is capable of much more than he is delivering, we juts need to get more out of him and having him on the filed with Bennett and Shanahan who have also proven their worth as free takers is vital when one of those bad days arrive.

Interesting comment by one one poster on here about DJ Foran, he did do really well against Tipp last year and some players always have a "favourite team" who they generally show up against. Would it be worth considering a half forward line for Thurles of Shanahan, Gleeson and Foran - three big men and good fielders of the ball?

Don't think Connors will make it by the looks of him on TV last night, seemed concussed - I still worry about McNulty as a corner back, believing he is better suited to wing back , so for me next Sunday Conor Gleeson to corner back alongside Prunty and Fives, and Shane Bennett to midfield?

mountgomery burns

Not expecting radical changes. Tommy Ryan and Shane Fives will start and that will be the size of it. Maybe Curran for Shane Bennett.

spideyman92

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

I was in the stand but heard there was some sort of seating provided in the terraces for those who didn't have a rail but wanted to sit for a break. Sounds odd.. any truth in that?

There was an auld lad in front of us at the pitch-side railing behind the townside goal with a fold-able chair but I dunno if it was provided or if he brought it himself.

Deiseen

Jesus lads, if we played awfully and only lost by a point then what does that make Clare?

Deise_2012

Correct me if I’m wrong but Tommy Ryan’s first involvement in the game was his point in the 72nd minute? I thought he was very quiet throughout the 2nd half as was Curran when he came on. If Connors is fit I’d drop Mcnulty for next week and swap Moran with Conor Gleeson.
TDB was targeted with his distribution yest, anytime he got on the ball he was closed down immediately while losing the ball on a few occasions. A lot to improve on for next week

whiteandblue

Waterford didn't play to their potential yesterday in a variety of positions and there is plenty they can improve on for next week but it's only one game and a win next weekend and it leaves Waterford in a good position again. anything I say is not to criticise management or players, just my own opinions. Some of the worries/issues I felt:

- Clare's distribution from puckouts was much more accurate. For the world of me, I can't understand why SOK gives short ones to Fives or Prunty on the 21 putting them under pressure when his puck is probably 30 yards longer which we saw in the last 10 minutes when they dropped inside the Clare 45. I also noticed that the runs from the forwards improved at this stage with Austin and Curran started runs from inside the 21 to win ball in space. The movement has to be good again next week so we don't give the 3 Mahers a field day in the Tipp halfback line.

- Conor Gleeson should have picked up Tony Kelly from the start or at least after Kelly's first few possessions and scores. He's a man marker, a spoiler, and Kelly is clearly Clare's key man.

- Even if Jamie Barron is struggling, which I didn't think he was, I would leave him on the pitch. He had scored 2 points and had just won a free that was scored and was suddenly subbed. There were certainly other players less effective such as Moran, Kearney and Mahony. Barron is a player who can create a score or space from nothing, he was needed for those last 15 minutes.

- The subs made an impact, although Tommy Ryan didn't touch a ball until around the 55th minute but he used the few balls he got well. Maurice played excellently and looked sharp and dangerous, he's a handful for any defender when he is that form. Patrick Curran showed well and won ball. I wasn't as impressed with Shane Fives as others seemed to be but O'Donnell had less of an impact when Connors went off. My overall point is that we have strength in depth and players to bring in to change games.

- Credit to the county board for how smoothly the day went and how Walsh Park was set up, the pitch was excellent. I was in the West Terrace and there were good toilet facilities and ample space and slightly off point but beforehand, there were no issues with traffic or parking. The atmosphere wasn't fantastic but that is up to the supporters to create and the place probably only got lively for the last 5 minutes.

- I think there should be a freetaking policy within the panel. I know it puts pressure on Bennett but if he misses 2/3, Mahony should be given responsibility. Similarly if it's decided Mahony is on frees the nest day, Bennett goes on them if he is struggling. Also, there should be a designated 21 yard freetaker, not 3 lads (Austin, Bennett and Maurice) looking to take it.

- The reaction of supporters, pundits and journalists to one win/loss from a team is crazy. I read Eamon Sweeney today in the Indo saying Tipp are back and praising their forwards and that they're now going to be the team to beat to win an All-Ireland. This is the same forward line that was called too slow during the league and a team that should have lost every game in Munster last year. Tipp aren't as bad as people made out before this year but they're not world beaters after one big performance. Similarly, I believe Waterford are better than they showed for 60 minutes yesterday and small tweaks could make the difference. Waterford have nothing to fear going to Semple next week and should give it a right lash like they did last year when they were excellent against Tipp.