Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

willbeuptuesday

I currently train an u10&11 team and over the past few weeks I am getting disillusioned with how the GAA in Waterford run the organisation, we are confined to our Division and as a result we play the same teams over and over which is not good as there is not enough teams at our level, by that I mean, we are strong at U10 and I end up taking off my best players to stop the other teams from getting a hiding and we are the opposite in U11(partly because I start all U11's up on the age regardless of ability). Results mean nothing to me as I place a big emphasise on all kids getting fair game time but what is annoying is the following
1. we are expected to organise our own natural refs, the board give us a list and none of them are referring!! We are not allowed to use adult refs, every manager in our league is experiencing the same. We end up making on average 10 calls a game to try and sort a ref.
2. There is too much of a gap in standards between certain clubs, by that I mean bigger clubs have more number and therefore are naturally stronger yet they are fixed to play against smaller clubs. Its not their fault but surly it makes more sense to go all county and create better leagues and clubs can play in leagues where all games are competitive and nobody is getting a hiding every week.
3. The fixtures are all over the place, the GDA's don't collaborate eg. Go games blitzes fixed for the same days as City league fixtures!! Ballyduff tournament clashing with City league (all teams down tools and those not in it are left behind).
4. Soccer and Rugby can travel for their games why cant clubs in Waterford travel, its a small county! They do it in other codes and I know for a fact that parents would nt mind.
5. There is no promotion of games on social media, its 2019 and we need to engage the modern parent. Our presence and information regarding our underage leagues in the local media is paltry compared to soccer. We need a strategy because if we don't engage the modern child in his world he will go else where.
6. The GAA do a lot of good in Waterford and that should not be forgotten, but it badly needs to modernise. If we do not put in place better leagues for the kids they will go elsewhere like they are already doing! Time to wake up and its up to us to change it. I personally intend to out a motion to my club at the AGM to end the east/west divide and ask them to bring it to the convention in December. It will probably loose if they bring it but at least it will start the debate. Instead of always winging some posters here would be better served by getting involved rather than giving out. You can all do one simple thing and that is put a motion to your club committee (if any of ye are members of a club) to end the east/west divide for the good of Waterford GAA.

Jerry Atrick

DiscoStew wrote: »

Beginning trials, with 2 days notice, 6 weeks out from the first championship game is your idea of boys putting the shoulder to the wheel?

The proof will be in the pudding Stew lad. Make sure you're there to support the team on the night.

Tramore84

Hopefully the lads can lift it for the Limerick game in 11 days time. We need a boost, realistically you would think it is unlikely that we will qualify now.

Tipp are going to go through,
Clare will surely win one of their remaining games,

leaving Cork and Limerick, both of which are ahead of Waterford based on current form.

At the moment , unless there is a major turn around, it does seem as if we will go out with 0 wins in 8 games over the 2 years of the Championship.

Some of the leaders of the team have just not performed for whatever reason, be it miles on the clock, injury, an extended club campaign, it's not clear but the result is the team have not hurled at all. Disappointing for the fans who went to Croker for the League Final and especially Thurles last Sunday.

Cummins was questioning the players attitude on the Sunday Game however I think that's unfair, the game was gone.

When we lose to Limerick (which let's face it , is likely) I would like to see some new faces in the team for the Cork game, Billy Nolan for example, and the guys who have done well should be retained, thinking Callum Lyons and J Prendergast.

Not in the music promotion game but I could send Jay Z's record company an email to see if he would fancy a session at Sadie's pub?. Val Doonican was a lovely man by all accounts and I'm sure he would pitch in if he was around.

Dammo

Giveitfong wrote: »

A few years ago the GAA required all county boards to engage an outside consultant to produce a strategic development plan. The Chief Executive of Waterford City and County Council and former Waterford hurler, Michael Walsh, prepared the plan for Waterford. It was an excellent document which pointed out the many organisational deficiences of the GAA in Waterford and made a long list of recommendations for change in organisational structures and practices, including the abolition of the divisional boards. It also called for an overhaul of competitive structures with an emphasis on proper league structures. As far as I am aware the report was never published or placed before the county board for a detailed discussion. This is not surprising, given the litany of failings of the county board listed in the report and the major upheaval which implementation would have involved. However, GAA headquarters should have insisted on the report being published so that at least it could have given rise to some public discussion. This shows just how hard it is to achieve any kind of significant change in what is a highly dysfunctional organisation.

That’s frustrating and sad in equal measure. Why didn’t HQ withhold funds from any board that blatantly disregarded the spirit if not the letter of the instruction?

Is it the case that the CB cannot accept that despite its best efforts, there appears to be no forward momentum in the organisation? In fairness to them, I’m looking on from a distance, but at this remove,and judging by what many people on here and elsewhere say, it just looks like Groundhog Day.

Every successful organisation in the world is constantly planning for and managing change. Where’s the meaningful evidence of it here? A lick of paint to WP when you’re embarrassed into doing it?

blueflame

Lots of talk on here about organisation, structures and funding and running concerts etc..

I know lots of lads who are really committed to Waterford GAA, and in particular to the hurling in the hope of securing just one Senior All Ireland is what everyone craves. Being realistic and I do not want to be unfair to the footballers, (i was one myself a long time ago) the chances of ever competing at any sort of high level is in football is a million dreams away, and that will not garner support on the grand scale needed.

Unfortunately as a county we are probably, one of, if not the most divided there is- divided between Football and Hurling, and divided between East and West - until we unite behind one common goal I am afraid a Senior All Ireland will remain as a pipe dream.

For example our subscription levels to Club Deise are a shining example - a measley €30.00 per year and by the looks of the annual accounts we have a membership of circa 1000 people. Corporate Membership is €500 / €1,000 per year and by the look of things we have somewhere between 50 to 100 members. With a population the size of Waterford City and County and ex-pats living around the country we should surely be able to double that membership at least, and if the County Board we willing to give up a little bit of their power we might just make it a more attractive package for people to contribute.

For example , Ordinary Club Deise members were not given the option of being able to purchase a ticket for Walsh Park games or All Ireland Final. Corporate Members who contribute €500 per annum were given the option of purchasing one, and Gold Members who pay €1,000 were given the option of purchasing two. So by these figures a measley 75 to 150 tickets were allocated to these people, probably about the same as the personal allocations given to Senior County Board Members. These Corporate Members some of whom I know from personal experience are asked time and again to put their hands in their pockets, not just for their Annual Sub but for every fund raising event being run throughout the year. and what is their thanks, they are treated like beggars

I know personally of several people who would be willing to make a meaningful regular contribution to proper fund raising if they were assured that the money would be put to proper use and spent wisely in pursuit of a eventually securing an All Ireland over the coming years, and if they were treated properly and with respect by the County Board.

Imagine just 100 people willing to pay €30 per month by Direct Debit - €36,000 per annum funds raised with no risk.
Make that just 1000 people and you are at €360,000 per annum with funds raised - no risk.

And what would you be asking for - an entitlement to purchase two tickets for big matches - 2,000 tickets and these would all be genuine hurling supporters who would be worthy of securing a ticket to begin with, the invitation to the odd question and answer session where they would be able to voice opinion and raise questions and see where their money is being spent? An invitation to the odd after match event and given a chance to meet the players in a causal setting?

With a bit of imagination and a willingness to relinquish some power, we don't need high risk concerts or event to raise serious money, just a bit of though and hard work.



Not alot to be ask for teh kind of financial support they woudl garner

.

TheScoringGoal

blueflame wrote: »

Lots of talk on here about organisation, structures and funding and running concerts etc..

I know lots of lads who are really committed to Waterford GAA, and in particular to the hurling in the hope of securing just one Senior All Ireland is what everyone craves. Being realistic and I do not want to be unfair to the footballers, (i was one myself a long time ago) the chances of ever competing at any sort of high level is in football is a million dreams away, and that will not garner support on the grand scale needed.

Unfortunately as a county we are probably, one of, if not the most divided there is- divided between Football and Hurling, and divided between East and West - until we unite behind one common goal I am afraid a Senior All Ireland will remain as a pipe dream.

For example our subscription levels to Club Deise are a shining example - a measley €30.00 per year and by the looks of the annual accounts we have a membership of circa 1000 people. Corporate Membership is €500 / €1,000 per year and by the look of things we have somewhere between 50 to 100 members. With a population the size of Waterford City and County and ex-pats living around the country we should surely be able to double that membership at least, and if the County Board we willing to give up a little bit of their power we might just make it a more attractive package for people to contribute.

For example , Ordinary Club Deise members were not given the option of being able to purchase a ticket for Walsh Park games or All Ireland Final. Corporate Members who contribute €500 per annum were given the option of purchasing one, and Gold Members who pay €1,000 were given the option of purchasing two. So by these figures a measley 75 to 150 tickets were allocated to these people, probably about the same as the personal allocations given to Senior County Board Members. These Corporate Members some of whom I know from personal experience are asked time and again to put their hands in their pockets, not just for their Annual Sub but for every fund raising event being run throughout the year. and what is their thanks, they are treated like beggars

I know personally of several people who would be willing to make a meaningful regular contribution to proper fund raising if they were assured that the money would be put to proper use and spent wisely in pursuit of a eventually securing an All Ireland over the coming years, and if they were treated properly and with respect by the County Board.

Imagine just 100 people willing to pay €30 per month by Direct Debit - €36,000 per annum funds raised with no risk.
Make that just 1000 people and you are at €360,000 per annum with funds raised - no risk.

And what would you be asking for - an entitlement to purchase two tickets for big matches - 2,000 tickets and these would all be genuine hurling supporters who would be worthy of securing a ticket to begin with, the invitation to the odd question and answer session where they would be able to voice opinion and raise questions and see where their money is being spent? An invitation to the odd after match event and given a chance to meet the players in a causal setting?

With a bit of imagination and a willingness to relinquish some power, we don't need high risk concerts or event to raise serious money, just a bit of though and hard work.



Not alot to be ask for teh kind of financial support they woudl garner

.

Correct me if I'm wrong but they don't even organise supporters buses do they?

Dammo

blueflame wrote: »

Lots of talk on here about organisation, structures and funding and running concerts etc..

I know lots of lads who are really committed to Waterford GAA, and in particular to the hurling in the hope of securing just one Senior All Ireland is what everyone craves. Being realistic and I do not want to be unfair to the footballers, (i was one myself a long time ago) the chances of ever competing at any sort of high level is in football is a million dreams away, and that will not garner support on the grand scale needed.

Unfortunately as a county we are probably, one of, if not the most divided there is- divided between Football and Hurling, and divided between East and West - until we unite behind one common goal I am afraid a Senior All Ireland will remain as a pipe dream.

For example our subscription levels to Club Deise are a shining example - a measley €30.00 per year and by the looks of the annual accounts we have a membership of circa 1000 people. Corporate Membership is €500 / €1,000 per year and by the look of things we have somewhere between 50 to 100 members. With a population the size of Waterford City and County and ex-pats living around the country we should surely be able to double that membership at least, and if the County Board we willing to give up a little bit of their power we might just make it a more attractive package for people to contribute.

For example , Ordinary Club Deise members were not given the option of being able to purchase a ticket for Walsh Park games or All Ireland Final. Corporate Members who contribute €500 per annum were given the option of purchasing one, and Gold Members who pay €1,000 were given the option of purchasing two. So by these figures a measley 75 to 150 tickets were allocated to these people, probably about the same as the personal allocations given to Senior County Board Members. These Corporate Members some of whom I know from personal experience are asked time and again to put their hands in their pockets, not just for their Annual Sub but for every fund raising event being run throughout the year. and what is their thanks, they are treated like beggars

I know personally of several people who would be willing to make a meaningful regular contribution to proper fund raising if they were assured that the money would be put to proper use and spent wisely in pursuit of a eventually securing an All Ireland over the coming years, and if they were treated properly and with respect by the County Board.

Imagine just 100 people willing to pay €30 per month by Direct Debit - €36,000 per annum funds raised with no risk.
Make that just 1000 people and you are at €360,000 per annum with funds raised - no risk.

And what would you be asking for - an entitlement to purchase two tickets for big matches - 2,000 tickets and these would all be genuine hurling supporters who would be worthy of securing a ticket to begin with, the invitation to the odd question and answer session where they would be able to voice opinion and raise questions and see where their money is being spent? An invitation to the odd after match event and given a chance to meet the players in a causal setting?

With a bit of imagination and a willingness to relinquish some power, we don't need high risk concerts or event to raise serious money, just a bit of though and hard work.



Not alot to be ask for teh kind of financial support they woudl garner

.

That seems sensible but is this kind of thinking going on at CB level? Does anyone actually know what goes on?

Is the elephant in the room that a small select group are putting their own interests ahead of the players, fans and countless others working at grassroots level?

Or are they plain incompetent and can’t see it?

Or are they doing a great job and it’s all happening under the radar in a manner that ordinary joes like me “wouldn’t understand”?

Whatever the reason I’m genuinely baffled as to how little or nothing appears to be changing.

blueflame

To avoid any doubt, my post was not an attack on Club Deise, far from it, as they do tremendous work. My point is that if we want to take the likes Club Deise to the next level and make it really attractive for genuine supporters to "invest in" and I deliberately use the word "invest" the County Board have to cooperate fully and put their weight behind the Supporters Club, getting off their ar... and relinquishing some of their personal powers and gratification.

A much used word in this country at this time is "stakeholders" - that is what supporters are, people who constantly put their hand in their pockets in support of county teams and they deserve real respect and recognition. Typical example being last year when our supporters were forced by the actions (or inactions) of an inept County Board, and asked to spend hard earned money travelling to Clare, Limerick and Thurles four weeks in a row at considerable expense to "support the team" - I am sure those self same officers were well compensated by County Board expenses for their travels, and then they criticize supports for failing to turn up in numbers.

Time to get real - if some real initiatives could be put in place and make people feel they are getting value for money, and that they are shown due respect, some real funds can be raised and put to use, and this in turn will relieve the burden being placed upon the clubs.

I think you would be amazed how many genuine Hurling Supporters there are out there that are not paying club affiliations and this is money that could be harnessed with a bit of thought and imagination.

The Hypnotoad

Transparency is the biggest issue I can see with the CB and how things are managed.

Just think over the last few years and we've all heard rumors, stories, whispering (and in a lot of cases the complete truth) on countless incidents or screw ups. Mattie Kenny, Pat Ryan, Michael Ryan, Walsh Park development, Jedward, Carriganore, club levys, finance management, home/away arrangements and they're just off the top of my head but in all cases it either stays as whispers or if it gets picked up by media is treated with silence or outright denial without any evidence to back it up. In the Carriganore case the CB was allowed to just waffle on with denials of everything but never had to demonstrate that was the case.

The reality is you need a paper trail. You need to be able to show the levels youre dealing with weither its mismanagement, incompetence, self serving interests or even genuine best effort with things going against you but we have none of those things that I can see (are county board meetings minutes published anywhere?).

Every one of those incidents has a paper trail in email, minutes, notes, letters etc and imo thats the only place you'll find reform and strategic development. The current turkeys won't vote for christmas and will be happy to sit back, deflect, deny and keep the musical chairs going so you need to be able to prove that their time is up.
The bigger problem is how. I don't know (and can't find out easily) if FOI applies to the GAA. It applies to Sport Ireland so could be a place to start but you need to target what youre looking for.

Definitely need to dig into this more.

willbeuptuesday

To be fair to the CB they are genuine GAA people who give a lot of their time voluntarily but we need to compare with progressive county boards and we are way off. Clubs have to take their fair share of the blame as we continue to send yes men as delegates and therefore we hold nobody accountable. The age profile of those in the decision making roles ensures they have n't a clue about kids or their needs. The younger GAA people need to step up but the reality is that any parent would nt have the time in this modern world. So its a catch 22 situation, what do we do? I think we need to take a bold step and appoint a fulltime paid board(no more than 4 people) supplemented by volunteers. Chairman - Volunteer, Secretary- Paid (he would be the CEO ala John Costelloe Dublin), Financial Officer/Treasurer - Paid (responsible for commercial activities) and Coaching Co-ordinator/Director of Hurling - Paid (his duty is to implement a unique 10 year plan to develop Hurling and football in the county by working with schools and clubs.

Thing that need to change-
Adult- better competitions and the introduction of meaningful leagues, Championship needs to be more cut throat.
Underage- we need all county leagues to give our kids more games against teams of a similar standard. This will aid the development of the game in Waterford.
Schools- we need to do what limerick did and take over the GAA in the secondary schools, with the aim in 5 years to have 4 Harty cup quarter finalists. This would take serious investment like what Kerry are doing put top coaches in schools with more than 1000 pupils and their jobs are to work with all kids from 1st to 6th year, resources such as S&C and Nutrition are shared by all schools. The schools have class rooms and there is no expense when it comes to hosting external coaches, they have fields and dressing rooms. The schools have a pool of talent that needs to be nurtured in a meaningful way, this is not too unrealistic and would have a lasting impression.

hardybuck

DiscoStew wrote: »

Beginning trials, with 2 days notice, 6 weeks out from the first championship game is your idea of boys putting the shoulder to the wheel?

It's a classic example of box ticking. It's a disgrace the blind eye that's turned to this sort of thing. A club team wouldn't be thrown out like that.

hardybuck

Personally I would not contribute to any supporters club that did not cover both hurling and football.

By all means the hurling would incur the most costs and you'd argue that funds spent here would generate the biggest ROI.

However, look at Clare, a county of similar size to us, who we'd have been beating regularly at underage football for many years, are now a Division 2 football county and representing their county fantastically.

blueflame

I accept that some individuals would not contribute to a supporters club aimed at hurling only, and I am not suggesting that. However there are a couple of ways to look at this:

1. Make sure that funds are apportioned correctly on the basis of what is realistically achievable by each group.
2. You could set up specific supporters groups, where people have the option of where their funds are allocated i.e. Hurling or Football or both. I am sure there are some supporters who would prefer if their money was only spent only on football development, and I accept this totally, but give people a choice, it is their money that is being spent.
3. Whatever funds are raised in respect of each code this will reduce some of the burden on county board's general finances.

You cite Clare as being an example of treating Football / Hurling as twin priorities. Unfortunately i believe that this is likely to be the latest in a long list of smaller counties who have unsuccessfully tried to compete equally at both codes on a consistent basis.

Over the last 20 years many counties have flattered only to deceive, with both codes to suffering eventually. Only two counties have been in any way successful at competing on both fronts simultaneously over a prolonged basis these being Cork and Galway both with very big populations, and these have struggled also at times. Dublin obviously have the potential to succeed at both, with the population and finances, but other examples are

Offaly made great strides in hurling only to see their football standards decline and now both codes are struggling badly.
Limerick made great strides in football a couple of years ago and their hurlers floundered
Tipp have flattered at football at times, but their hurlers have generally suffered during those periods.
Wexford with Mattie Forde, were deemed a football force, while their hurlers went into serious decline.

It is no coincidence that by far the two most consistent "smaller counties" in each code have also been the most prolific, i.e. Kerry and Kilkenny. Both have decided a long time ago where their real focus and future lies. This is the stark reality of a sport where you are limited by your playing population with no transfer market to buy in the best players - it is a numbers game.

If we do not adopt a similar focus and heavily prioritize one code, the prospects are that we will end up like we have with our playing facilitates - having two sub-standard grounds, way behind the majority of the country , where money was wasted for years papering over the cracks at both venues, instead of putting in place a proper long-term planning strategy for one.

Sad but true i am afraid.

spideyman92

Probably missed it being posted already but unfortunate for Philip Mahony to suffer another bad injury.

https://twitter.com/ExaminerSport/status/1131124735654465536?s=09

hardybuck

blueflame wrote: »

I accept that some individuals would not contribute to a supporters club aimed at hurling only, and I am not suggesting that. However there are a couple of ways to look at this:

1. Make sure that funds are apportioned correctly on the basis of what is realistically achievable by each group.
2. You could set up specific supporters groups, where people have the option of where their funds are allocated i.e. Hurling or Football or both. I am sure there are some supporters who would prefer if their money was only spent only on football development, and I accept this totally, but give people a choice, it is their money that is being spent.
3. Whatever funds are raised in respect of each code this will reduce some of the burden on county board's general finances.

You cite Clare as being an example of treating Football / Hurling as twin priorities. Unfortunately i believe that this is likely to be the latest in a long list of smaller counties who have unsuccessfully tried to compete equally at both codes on a consistent basis.

Over the last 20 years many counties have flattered only to deceive, with both codes to suffering eventually. Only two counties have been in any way successful at competing on both fronts simultaneously over a prolonged basis these being Cork and Galway both with very big populations, and these have struggled also at times. Dublin obviously have the potential to succeed at both, with the population and finances, but other examples are

Offaly made great strides in hurling only to see their football standards decline and now both codes are struggling badly.
Limerick made great strides in football a couple of years ago and their hurlers floundered
Tipp have flattered at football at times, but their hurlers have generally suffered during those periods.
Wexford with Mattie Forde, were deemed a football force, while their hurlers went into serious decline.

It is no coincidence that by far the two most consistent "smaller counties" in each code have also been the most prolific, i.e. Kerry and Kilkenny. Both have decided a long time ago where their real focus and future lies. This is the stark reality of a sport where you are limited by your playing population with no transfer market to buy in the best players - it is a numbers game.

If we do not adopt a similar focus and heavily prioritize one code, the prospects are that we will end up like we have with our playing facilitates - having two sub-standard grounds, way behind the majority of the country , where money was wasted for years papering over the cracks at both venues, instead of putting in place a proper long-term planning strategy for one.

Sad but true i am afraid.

The two sports are not mutually exclusive - that's why we have them under the one Association. Clare haven't given dual priority - hurling is still their priority, but they haven't totally ignored the game either like Waterford have.

In hurling, only three counties have been consistently successful - Cork, Kilkenny and Tipperary. Even in Tipp they haven't won multiple All Ireland's in a confined period since the 1960s. They won an All Ireland minor football in 2011 and a senior All Ireland hurling in 2010. They got to an All Ireland U21 final in 2015 and won the senior All Ireland in 2016. Before the Rackards burst on the scene in the 1950s, Wexford were a football county. Offaly were a football county longer than a football county and are now neither. Limerick were always in and around Waterford's standard bar one decent senior side.

So basically all of the counties you've listed have only ever been periodically successful - it's not because they had a decent football team for a few years.

Most counties are football counties who don't have great hurling teams. Kerry are actually one of the few of them that has a respectable hurling team.

DJ Carey has actually been working with Kilkenny underage football development squads for about 5 years ago and they've made great strides. He knows he's never winning an All Ireland, but he wants kids to be able to play the game. He commented recently that they only ever lost a handful of lads to hurling, and his goal is to help the lads that want to play do well.

So this lark of Waterford doing an U20 football trial on a Thursday evening 6 weeks before Championship is doing nobody any good. It wouldn't cost a fortune to give them a little more time to prepare properly.

blueflame

Agree that kids be given the chance to play both codes, as i said previously i was primarily a footballer myself in my playing days having represented Waterford at underage and adult level

What i am talking about is a division of assets and resources - you are measuring success in terms of winning All Irelands - i am talking about competing consistently at the highest level and being there or thereabouts - only one team can win the All Ireland each year.

I do not agree with an under 20 Football trial on a Thursday evening 6 weeks before Championship but if there is not sufficient interest in the county among the general population it is hard to do anything about this. Unfortunately there is very limited interest within the county regarding football, and there needs to be some degree of acceptance of this. I do not believe that the County Board are the problem in this instance, in actual fact if you look at the senior officers of the board, the vast majority are all from Football orientated clubs and i believe have strong interest in promoting football. From my understanding it is about the difficulty of getting mentors to run football teams but i am open to correction

blueflame

Tough news for Philip Mahony - not a lot of luck for that family over the last 5 years - hope he makes a speedy recovery

Jerry Atrick

blueflame wrote: »

Agree that kids be given the chance to play both codes, as i said previously i was primarily a footballer myself in my playing days having represented Waterford at underage and adult level

What i am talking about is a division of assets and resources - you are measuring success in terms of winning All Irelands - i am talking about competing consistently at the highest level and being there or thereabouts - only one team can win the All Ireland each year.

I do not agree with an under 20 Football trial on a Thursday evening 6 weeks before Championship but if there is not sufficient interest in the county among the general population it is hard to do anything about this. Unfortunately there is very limited interest within the county regarding football, and there needs to be some degree of acceptance of this. I do not believe that the County Board are the problem in this instance, in actual fact if you look at the senior officers of the board, the vast majority are all from Football orientated clubs and i believe have strong interest in promoting football. From my understanding it is about the difficulty of getting mentors to run football teams but i am open to correction

The county board only give football piecemeal attention lad. The structures underage are a shambles as are the senior championship and league structure. Young lads need to consistently play the game and take it from there.

hardybuck

blueflame wrote: »

Agree that kids be given the chance to play both codes, as i said previously i was primarily a footballer myself in my playing days having represented Waterford at underage and adult level

What i am talking about is a division of assets and resources - you are measuring success in terms of winning All Irelands - i am talking about competing consistently at the highest level and being there or thereabouts - only one team can win the All Ireland each year.

I do not agree with an under 20 Football trial on a Thursday evening 6 weeks before Championship but if there is not sufficient interest in the county among the general population it is hard to do anything about this. Unfortunately there is very limited interest within the county regarding football, and there needs to be some degree of acceptance of this. I do not believe that the County Board are the problem in this instance, in actual fact if you look at the senior officers of the board, the vast majority are all from Football orientated clubs and i believe have strong interest in promoting football. From my understanding it is about the difficulty of getting mentors to run football teams but i am open to correction

Very simply - as we're both on similar pages, ROI should be something which is calculable. Money should go to both depending on where it can have maximum impact, and depending on member interest as you've suggested.

thesaturdayman

it took a while & without trying to attack or defame anyone - but at least now there is decent dialogue around things. The issue is, when you approach county board ppl or even try and engage with them the guards go up and you are completely stone walled.

I have my own ideas why & i hope some day the answers will be made public.

In the interim, there should be a public petition to abolish the divisional boards - with immediate effect.

Ronald Regan said it best "tear down the wall mr gorbachev divisional and county board men"

Deisefacts

thesaturdayman wrote: »

it took a while & without trying to attack or defame anyone - but at least now there is decent dialogue around things. The issue is, when you approach county board ppl or even try and engage with them the guards go up and you are completely stone walled.

I have my own ideas why & i hope some day the answers will be made public

In the interim, there should be a public petition to abolish the divisional boards - with immediate effect.

Ronald Regan said it best "tear down the wall mr gorbachev divisional and county board men"

Your dead right. At least now people are talking about it and the more that talk about it the better. But, and here is where our biggest problem exist. The county secretary is readily and openly encouraging the east/west divide at minor hurling level last year and this year even though it was agreed a number of years ago that all underage championships from minor down were to be run on a county basis. In the “c” championship of 2018 was divided into east and west. This years “b”&”c” championships have been proposed to run on an east west basis by the secretary.

Giveitfong

In Cork, Clare and Galway football and hurling are largely played in different parts of the county and there is limited overlap between the two. That is also the case with Kerry. In Waterford there are numerous clubs trying to be good at both – Abbeyside/Ballinacourty, Fourmilewater/The Nire, Clonea/Rathgormack, Ring, Ardmore, Clashmore/Kinsalebeg, Brickey Rangers, Dunhill (at least in the past). I could include Dungarvan, but they seem to be putting more emphasis on hurling these days, and are more competitive at it as a result. In some clubs this creates internal tensions which does nobody any good.

It is very unusual to have a major sporting organisation which runs two different sports, with lots of players in some counties playing both simultaneously. This creates all sorts of organisational and performance difficulties. Players who play both sports seriously will rarely be as good at either as players who concentrate on one or the other. In my view this is seriously holding Waterford back compared with counties where there is limited overlap between the two games. Waterford’s top three or four football clubs are usually competitive in the Munster championship but the county team is never going to be seriously competitive when the top dual players invariably opt to play hurling for the county.

Abbeyside were very strong at hurling in the 1950s and the 1960s when Ballinacourty were a weak junior football club. After Ballinacourty won the senior football title in 1978 and two more in the following three years the hurling side of the club fell away, as players realised they had a much better chance of winning a football than a hurling title. Hurling has made a bit of a recovery in the club in recent years but, given their numbers, they would be much stronger if they focused primarily on hurling. However, as they are perennial contenders for the football title that is unlikely to happen.

The fact is that if Waterford’s GAA clubs across the boards gave priority to hurling, we would be able to field even stronger county teams than we do at present (when, at senior level, we are already among the top contenders). If we were to win a senior All-Ireland, it might tip the balance within the dual clubs.

At the moment, it is obvious that there is vastly more popular support for hurling than for football within the county. It is difficult for the county board to blatantly favour one over the other. However, the suggestion has been made here to look to supporters to invest serious money in the county teams, but with the proviso that their money would go to the game of their choice (if they wish to make a choice). Given that most people (I expect) would wish to invest the money in hurling, the county board could then justify this as being the democratic wish of the people.

However, how many supporters (and especially corporate supporters) are going to invest serious money in an organisation with inept administrative, competitive and coaching structures and stongly resistant to reforming these structures?

Pogue eile

Tramore84 wrote: »

Cummins was questioning the players attitude on the Sunday Game however I think that's unfair, the game was gone.

I would agree, if there was an attitude issue or a disgruntled camp etc. then they would have caved at 14-6 and a man down but from that point until when they got it back to 3 they fought like dogs

blueflame

Giveitfong wrote: »

In Cork, Clare and Galway football and hurling are largely played in different parts of the county and there is limited overlap between the two. That is also the case with Kerry. In Waterford there are numerous clubs trying to be good at both – Abbeyside/Ballinacourty, Fourmilewater/The Nire, Clonea/Rathgormack, Ring, Ardmore, Clashmore/Kinsalebeg, Brickey Rangers, Dunhill (at least in the past). I could include Dungarvan, but they seem to be putting more emphasis on hurling these days, and are more competitive at it as a result. In some clubs this creates internal tensions which does nobody any good.

It is very unusual to have a major sporting organisation which runs two different sports, with lots of players in some counties playing both simultaneously. This creates all sorts of organisational and performance difficulties. Players who play both sports seriously will rarely be as good at either as players who concentrate on one or the other. In my view this is seriously holding Waterford back compared with counties where there is limited overlap between the two games. Waterford’s top three or four football clubs are usually competitive in the Munster championship but the county team is never going to be seriously competitive when the top dual players invariably opt to play hurling for the county.

Abbeyside were very strong at hurling in the 1950s and the 1960s when Ballinacourty were a weak junior football club. After Ballinacourty won the senior football title in 1978 and two more in the following three years the hurling side of the club fell away, as players realised they had a much better chance of winning a football than a hurling title. Hurling has made a bit of a recovery in the club in recent years but, given their numbers, they would be much stronger if they focused primarily on hurling. However, as they are perennial contenders for the football title that is unlikely to happen.

The fact is that if Waterford’s GAA clubs across the boards gave priority to hurling, we would be able to field even stronger county teams than we do at present (when, at senior level, we are already among the top contenders). If we were to win a senior All-Ireland, it might tip the balance within the dual clubs.

At the moment, it is obvious that there is vastly more popular support for hurling than for football within the county. It is difficult for the county board to blatantly favour one over the other. However, the suggestion has been made here to look to supporters to invest serious money in the county teams, but with the proviso that their money would go to the game of their choice (if they wish to make a choice). Given that most people (I expect) would wish to invest the money in hurling, the county board could then justify this as being the democratic wish of the people.

However, how many supporters (and especially corporate supporters) are going to invest serious money in an organisation with inept administrative, competitive and coaching structures and stongly resistant to reforming these structures?

This is is the point i have been making - the county board need to change their approach if there is to be any form of real support forthcoming - people will only invest when they trust those they are investing in and when there is real accountability.

Stopitwillya

Deisefacts wrote: »

Your dead right. At least now people are talking about it and the more that talk about it the better. But, and here is where our biggest problem exist. The county secretary is readily and openly encouraging the east/west divide at minor hurling level last year and this year even though it was agreed a number of years ago that all underage championships from minor down were to be run on a county basis. In the “c” championship of 2018 was divided into east and west. This years “b”&”c” championships have been proposed to run on an east west basis by the secretary.

If this is true our county secretary should be sacked. When is his time up as he has been a disaster. Needs to spend less time on the bike and more time trying to do his job properly.

Deisefacts

Stopitwillya wrote: »

If this is true our county secretary should be sacked. When is his time up as he has been a disaster. Needs to spend less time on the bike and more time trying to do his job properly.

At last we are going to agree on something. He has a year left,but I’m not sure on this, he is after been granted a rolling contract after that.
As far as I know the county board can’t sack him. It’s croke park that have the only power to do this.

whiteandblue

Deisefacts wrote: »

At last we are going to agree on something. He has a year left,but I’m not sure on this, he is after been granted a rolling contract after that.
As far as I know the county board can’t sack him. It’s croke park that have the only power to do this.

They made re-interview after each term I think? Isn't our secretary also on a career break from our kit supplier?

Cornerstoner

Another problem seems to be the type of forward we are developing in this county. We've got no physically imposing forward at all. We're the only county in Munster too in this regard. The last player that any way resembled this was probably Devine. Our great team of the naughties had Dan and Seamus. You would have to ask how this has happened. Is it down to the development squads favoring more skillful players in the short term? I remember when I was coming through the ranks at underage the coaches would put the fast nippy lads in the forwards and make backs out of the bigger lads who might not quite be as quick. Look at Conlon for Clare. When he gets that ball in his hand its a scoring opportunity. None of our current forwards have the physically to beat a man one on one. Ball winners over fair weather hulers any day of the week

thesaturdayman

its very quiet.... or is it the eye of the hurricane?

Spatters

Im hearing that Paraic Fanning got his marching orders. Any truth?

KevIRL

Spatters wrote: »

Im hearing that Paraic Fanning got his marching orders. Any truth?

Not true

thesaturdayman

KevIRL wrote: »

Not true

my god! didnt hear that! hopefully not true

PTH2009

Spatters wrote: »

Im hearing that Paraic Fanning got his marching orders. Any truth?

A bad beating in the Limerick game and it could be bye bye but dont think he will be gone unless the players speak up. He will keep the job on the league performance

DeiseDawg

PTH2009 wrote: »

A bad beating in the Limerick game and it could be bye bye but dont think he will be gone unless the players speak up. He will keep the job on the league performance

You can't be serious in spreading that nonsense. Lose two championship games, one by only a point, and you want the manager gone
We've lost 14 won 4 championship games in the last 10 years or so - that would have been a lot of manager's gone, with that thinking

PTH2009

DeiseDawg wrote: »

You can't be serious in spreading that nonsense. Lose two championship games, one by only a point, and you want the manager gone
We've lost 14 won 4 championship games in the last 10 years or so - that would have been a lot of manager's gone, with that thinking

It's a few other things like our tame warm ups, been too slow on decisions. I don't think hes a great motivator or man manager from what I've seen

Possibly the management team could do with adding more experienced voices too it

Spatters

KevIRL wrote: »

Not true

Thank God for that. Think it would be a bad move both for morale within the camp and county but also from a PR side of things.
Blood pressure returning to normal 😅

Spatters

PTH2009 wrote: »

It's a few other things like our tame warm ups, been too slow on decisions. I don't think hes a great motivator or man manager from what I've seen

Possibly the management team could do with adding more experienced voices too it

Agree there with your last paragraph. Adding more experience is the way to go imo

Spatters

Im surprised the Saturday Man hasn’t anything to say. Normally full of wisdom???

Spatters

Is a win unrealistic v Limerick? Im struggling to believe we are that far away(eventhough results saying otherwise). Surely there is enough fight & self pride there to muster up a performance at home. These players are able to hurl, that much we know.
Is there hope there amongst supporters??

Deisefacts

whiteandblue wrote: »

They made re-interview after each term I think? Isn't our secretary also on a career break from our kit supplier?

If he is on a career break then there has to be a conflict of interest when it comes to negotiating contracts with the lines of o Neil’s and other manufacturers. Am I right in saying that? Does anyone know how much the board made from merchandise in 2018

Mulbert

PTH2009 wrote: »

DeiseDawg wrote: »

You can't be serious in spreading that nonsense. Lose two championship games, one by only a point, and you want the manager gone
We've lost 14 won 4 championship games in the last 10 years or so - that would have been a lot of manager's gone, with that thinking

It's a few other things like our tame warm ups, been too slow on decisions. I don't think hes a great motivator or man manager from what I've seen

Possibly the management team could do with adding more experienced voices too it

Which of the management team will be adding the more experienced voices?

How should they warm up PTH? Please impart some of your vast knowledge upon us all.

IanVW

Mulbert wrote: »

Which of the management team will be adding the more experienced voices?

How should they warm up PTH? Please impart some of your vast knowledge upon us all.

Please dont:D

PTH2009

Mulbert wrote: »

Which of the management team will be adding the more experienced voices?

How should they warm up PTH? Please impart some of your vast knowledge upon us all.

They need to do more physical exercises during the warm up. To me this is a different routine to the one under Derek McGrath and is not as demanding.

We could get someone for a mentor type role

enoughtaken

Mulbert wrote: »

Which of the management team will be adding the more experienced voices?

How should they warm up PTH? Please impart some of your vast knowledge upon us all.

Maybe a hot whiskey for a warm up

Jjjjjjjjbarry

PTH2009 wrote: »

Mulbert wrote: »

Which of the management team will be adding the more experienced voices?

How should they warm up PTH? Please impart some of your vast knowledge upon us all.

They need to do more physical exercises during the warm up. To me this is a different routine to the one under Derek McGrath and is not as demanding.

We could get someone for a mentor type role

In fairness, a trend throughout our entire league campaign and into the Munster championship has been slow starts and poor first half performances. A lack of energy or intensity in the warm up might be a valid point.

Christy Browne

In fairness to PTH, the most negative man in the world, he does have a point here.

Could tell straight away from the intensity of Tipp’s warm up compared to our casual and lackadaisical approach that we were in for a long game.

hardybuck

Tipp have had an Indian sign over Waterford for a few years now as well.

upthedeise16

Deisefacts wrote: »

If he is on a career break then there has to be a conflict of interest when it comes to negotiating contracts with the lines of o Neil’s and other manufacturers. Am I right in saying that? Does anyone know how much the board made from merchandise in 2018

It’s been said that Waterford GAA will never leave Azzurri as they are a Waterford based company and they want to support local and if they were to stop using Azzurri and they closed which is likely as Waterford are the only county using them, there would be a serious backlash within the county.
I on the other hand hate Azzurri and think their gear is poor quality and doesn’t compare to O’Neills and wished Waterford would change back!

Deisegodeo

The point about the warm up is valid in my book. I couldn't believe how poor our warm up looked, general lack of intensity about it, balls being fumbled and lack of first touch for a team fighting for its championship lives was shocking. I was watching the tipp warm up too, doing possession drills with hand passes and lads trying to win the ball back, you could see the intensity there, they were well up for it. Wasn't surprising when we had another slow start to the game then.

killbillvol2

Deisegodeo wrote: »

The point about the warm up is valid in my book. I couldn't believe how poor our warm up looked, general lack of intensity about it, balls being fumbled and lack of first touch for a team fighting for its championship lives was shocking. I was watching the tipp warm up too, doing possession drills with hand passes and lads trying to win the ball back, you could see the intensity there, they were well up for it. Wasn't surprising when we had another slow start to the game then.

Whatever about the intensity, it's a bit late to address the lack of a first touch 20 minutes before the ball is thrown in.