Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

deiseach

whiteandblue wrote: »

As a supporter, I see it as a problem, it's a long summer without Waterford matches to look forward to and go to and club games more than likely will be played sporadically with none after the first weekend of July until late August. I want Waterford to do well, hence play in July and August

We all want them to do well, but we're getting four games against high-quality opposition in proper hurling weather. I'd rather have them in quick succession than drag them out over the summer with players training for several weeks at a time with no matches to play. We're not owed matches in July and August.

PTH2009

deiseach wrote: »

We all want them to do well, but we're getting four games against high-quality opposition in proper hurling weather. I'd rather have them in quick succession than drag them out over the summer with players training for several weeks at a time with no matches to play. We're not owed matches in July and August.

Its hard too get used to the games in quick succession and imo preferred the late calendar as it dragged out the excitement of the Championship but can understand the reasons ie club players even if its farcical in areas (still having the mostly july/aug off anyways)

liogairmhordain

deiseach wrote: »

Let the players go back to their clubs/gallivanting around the States [delete as applicable].

/ wait for a playoff against Kerry which would be played on the 13th of July at the earliest

deiseach

liogairmhordain wrote: »

/ wait for a playoff against Kerry which would be played on the 13th of July at the earliest

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me of that. There shouldn't be any playoff with Kerry. If they win the McDonagh Cup and we finish bottom of Munster, they should get promoted at our expense. This habit the GAA has of giving the strong second chances at the expense of the weak is outrageous.

hardybuck

whiteandblue wrote: »

I totally agree but maybe play the round of the hurling cancelled in April in late June and give all players July off other than league games and aim to have all group games in senior hurling and football finished by the end of August. Last year, clubs tried to delay matches as they had players in America.

There would be plenty of time for all knockouts games to be completed in time for Munster.

I'm a person who went off to play in the States myself, and it's ridiculous that I would have played about five times as many games over there than I would have played over the summer if I'd stayed home.

Games in August gives lads some ability to go away but you're not totally holding up a Championship for a few J1ers.

PTH2009

the under 20 hurlers (formally under 21 championship) play Tipp in the munster semi final on the 9th July in Thurles. Any news of the squad ?? any from the senior panel on it ?

Under 20 footballers face Clare in the Munster QF in Dungarvan on the 2nd July

puzl

deiseach wrote: »

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me of that. There shouldn't be any playoff with Kerry. If they win the McDonagh Cup and we finish bottom of Munster, they should get promoted at our expense. This habit the GAA has of giving the strong second chances at the expense of the weak is outrageous.

Kerry has always been welcome to play in Munster and has done so sporadically over the years with very little success. They elected to play Christy Ring and it has been very good for them.

The reality is that every Munster county would have voted against the round robin system if there had been any possibility of relegation out of it, and rightly so. The compromise was a playoff. Playoffs make a lot of sense where the gulf between the divisions is huge. Can you imagine Kerry in the Munster round robin? I mean no disrespect to the hurling people of Kerry who are amazing in their dedication in a world dominated by the big ball, but honestly, it would be a complete joke. Even the current qualifier round is a bit of a non event. In fairness to Westmeath they gave wexford a reasonable contest last year, but the scoreline flatter them against a wexford running out a training session. Limerick, OTOH, obliterated Carlow by around 25 points or so.

Alf Tupper

Lads, Waterford and football!!! It's about time Waterford called it. The best players won't even tog out and even if they did they wouldn't get out of the bottom tier. Shocking waste of money that could be spent on hurling. Sure let the lads up the Nire, Stradbally and Kilrossanty play away at club level to their heart's content. They're not troubling anyone. But to be throwing away money that needs to be spent on hurling is appalling!

Mastermcgrath

whiteandblue wrote: »

Will more than likely be the 8th of June, same day as the hurlers play Cork, hate being negative but a strong possibility of both teams of both teams out of championship on that date

I would think suggesting that Waterford will still be in the hurling championship by June 8th is actually being quite positive

Mastermcgrath

Alf Tupper wrote: »

Lads, Waterford and football!!! It's about time Waterford called it. The best players won't even tog out and even if they did they wouldn't get out of the bottom tier. Shocking waste of money that could be spent on hurling. Sure let the lads up the Nire, Stradbally and Kilrossanty play away at club level to their heart's content. They're not troubling anyone. But to be throwing away money that needs to be spent on hurling is appalling!

I would please with posters not to be the ruination of the page for the next few days by taking the bait and responding to this.

xanthe6

Brilliant thanks

914 wrote: »

26 minute walk from Train Station to Walsh Park

Shared route
From Plunkett Station to Waterford GAA via R686 and Morrissons Ave.

26 min (1.8 km)

https://maps.app.goo.gl/F9dNusXHHHbheY8x7

On the way back to the train station the marion chipper is gorgeous. Its by the mercy school on a junction with 5 roads. You will pass it walking to and from walsh park. It is located about half way in your walk

xanthe6

Thanks a million

fricatus wrote: »

The simplest way is to cross the bridge from the station and keep going straight - through three sets of lights (at the bridge, at the Hyper/Super Valu, and at the Marian/Mercy Secondary). At the fourth set of lights (just before Norris's corner/Celtic Squash Club/Blue Jade Chinese), you turn right onto Slievekeale Road. Keep going and you'll come to the stand, If the entrances closer to town are open on the day, you'll pass those, and if not, keep going.

For food/coffee, on the way (from memory) you have the small coffee shop in the station, an African fast-food place on Bridge Street, the Fitzwilton Hotel, Super Valu (café in there), I think a Four-Star pizza, a petrol station with food, then a shop and maybe a chipper at the Marian. Further on there's the aforementioned Chinese. Not sure what will be open on Sunday, since you're sort of skirting the city centre. If you go into town (basically 4-500 metres down the Quay), there are tons of options.

Bigsliothar

Lads do season ticket holders have to print a ticket for this fixture?? Thx

mountgomery burns

Bigsliothar wrote: »

Lads do season ticket holders have to print a ticket for this fixture?? Thx

Yeah you do

IanVW

Bigsliothar wrote: »

Lads do season ticket holders have to print a ticket for this fixture?? Thx

Walsh park no just show your season ticket card

Deisegodeo

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Bigsliothar wrote: »

Lads do season ticket holders have to print a ticket for this fixture?? Thx

Yeah you do

I thought it was just scan your season ticket and unreserved seating for this game, same as for the Clare match.

spideyman92

Deisegodeo wrote: »

I thought it was just scan your season ticket and unreserved seating for this game, same as for the Clare match.

As far as I know, you need the ticket but they can be scanned off your phone too so you don't actually need to print it.

fricatus

spideyman92 wrote: »

As far as I know, you need the ticket but they can be scanned off your phone too so you don't actually need to print it.

No, you just present the season ticket (card) for scanning. That's what they did at the Clare match. It's different in Thurles and Cork because you're allocated a seat - you print off your ticket or you save it to your phone. (I am a season ticket holder)

Bigsliothar

Thx for reply’s

spideyman92

fricatus wrote: »

No, you just present the season ticket (card) for scanning. That's what they did at the Clare match. It's different in Thurles and Cork because you're allocated a seat - you print off your ticket or you save it to your phone. (I am a season ticket holder)

Fair enough. I'd say though for anyone in doubt about it, to have the ticket on your phone at the same time. Then if for whatever reason they ask for it at the gate it's handy to pull up. Never know with anything in the GAA. Rules can end up different depending on who you're dealing with. Remember the fiasco in the league for the called off game when they were saying over the speakers that people would be issued tickets for the refixtured game on the way out but they didn't have any at the gate to give out haha.

fricatus

spideyman92 wrote: »

Fair enough. I'd say though for anyone in doubt about it, to have the ticket on your phone at the same time. Then if for whatever reason they ask for it at the gate it's handy to pull up. Never know with anything in the GAA. Rules can end up different depending on who you're dealing with.

That's not possible because they don't issue a ticket if there's unreserved seating (like for the Clare game).

All you can show anyone on your phone is the email that you get a couple of days beforehand instructing you to present your season ticket for scanning.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Fergal Horgan is the ref for Sunday. This usually means plenty of hits allowed and a free flowing game where it's hard to win a free. (possibly the odd bit of controversy too)

Deskjockey

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Fergal Horgan is the ref for Sunday. This usually means plenty of hits allowed and a free flowing game where it's hard to win a free. (possibly the odd bit of controversy too)

Absolutely delighted that a ref has been appointed who has shown such favouritism to Waterford in the past... a real home towner

#$@&¥

Jjjjjjjjbarry

He definitely owes us one or two calls.

Giveitfong

What is it about Tipperary? Three times in the last eight years, they have blitzed Waterford in the Munster championship. In the 2011 Munster final, when Davy Fitzgerald was manager, they beat us by 21 points (7-19 to 0-19). In the 2016 Munster final, with Derek McGrath in charge, the gap was again 21 points (5-19 to 0-13). Last Sunday week, it was Pádraig Fanning’s turn to see his charges go down by 18 points (2-30 to 0-18).

Waterford have always had problems with Tipperary, even when we had good teams. Waterford lost the 1957 All-Ireland final by just one point, and in the following year’s Munster final they were blown away by Tipp (4-12 to 1-5, a margin of 16 points). In the first round of the 1960 Munster championship Waterford were defending the All-Ireland title and lost by 14 points (6-9 to 2-7). In the 1962 Munster semi-final Waterford played brilliantly to beat Cork in the semi-final. In the final they managed just 2-3 to Tipp’s 5-14, a losing margin of 20 points. In 1967 Waterford beat the reigning All-Ireland champions, Cork, in the first round and then lost the semi-final to Tipp by ten points (2-16 to 3-3).

These were all one-off events which contrasted with the normally high standard of play of the Waterford teams in question. In both 2011 and 2016 Waterford had won their Munster semi-final, and after the meltdowns against Tipperary they won their All-Ireland quarter finals comfortably and performed creditably in the semi-final in both years against the great Kilkenny team of the era. Apart from the bad years of the 1980s and 1990s, Waterford have rarely suffered hammerings against the other big hurling counties (the 2008 All-Ireland final being an obvious exception).

Waterford have, of course, also managed to beat Tipperary on occasion. And last year they played more or less the same Tipp team as they met last week off the pitch for most of the game in Limerick. In that game Waterford were actually eleven points up with 15 minutes to go, and while we ultimately lost that game to a notorious umpiring decision, Waterford should never have allowed 14-man Tipp to get that close in the closing stages. However, in that period Waterford played really stupid hurling, giving the ball away time and again via long balls out of defence to non-existent forwards.

While the 2011 and 2016 results were one-off events, you cannot say the same about last week’s result in Thurles. It was Waterford’s third loss in a row. This year we have struggled against teams with roughly equal ability and better game plans. Dublin should have beaten us by more than they did. Galway dominated the league semi-final until they imploded in the last quarter. Limerick and Tipperary were in a different league from us. Clare were also better organised, although they were a bit lucky to get the win in the end, which shows that a better game plan is not in itself a guarantee of victory.

The other leading hurling counties generally have a game plan based on working the ball through the lines to either create opportunities to shoot from distance or else play good ball to the inside line. Tipperary did this in spades last week. By contrast, I would describe Waterford’s game plan as being primitive.

In the first half of the game against Tipperary, Waterford’s main attacking ploy, as it was against Clare, was the short puckout followed by a long ball down the line. Waterford hit seven of these and won just one of them. In the second half, Waterford abandoned short puckouts completely, using instead a mixture of directed puckouts to players outside the 45 metre line and long puckouts. The directed puckouts worked reasonably well (seven of eleven won) but long puckouts were a complete disaster – of eleven of these, Tipperary won them all. Over the entire game Waterford hit 15 long puckouts and won just one.

In the second half, Waterford’s main attacking ploy was the long ball from out the field on top of Maurice Shanahan and Stephen (and then Shane) Bennett, along with three, and sometimes four, Tipperary defenders. It should be obvious by now that Maurice Shanahan is not a good target man for high balls when he has his back to goal with one, and in this case, usually two defenders on his back. Waterford hit in ten of this kind of ball in the second half, and won just two of them. In both of the latter cases, the recipient then lost the ball under pressure from the defence.

Tipperary played very few of either of these kinds of balls. Instead, they used passes to move the ball through the lines and across the field to find unmarked players (usually Noel McGrath) on the wing who could then look up and place a diagonal ball into the far corner, where there was almost always a player running out from the full forward line. Where players hit balls from the centre of the pitch, again they nearly always played the ball into the corners.

Tipperary hit 22 of this kind of ball during the course of the game, with enormous success, as the balls were weighted to hop in front of the outcoming full forward or else come in at chest height, while the first touch of the forwards was generally superb. You can’t really blame the defenders when there is quality ball like this coming in. By contrast, Waterford hit just two of this kind of ball in the entire game. Ironically, the first of these, just before half time, produced Patrick Curran’s goal chance which hit the post.

Waterford managed to hang on for three quarters of the game as they worked hard and got some good scores themselves. They really put in a big effort in the third quarter, despite being a man down, with Pauric Mahony and Jamie Barron in particular providing good leadership. However, I was disappointed at the way they threw in the towel after Tipperary scored their first goal. After that, a lot of carlessness crept into the Waterford play and they, essentially, stopped competing. Of Waterford’s 14 puckouts after that goal was conceded, Tipperary won no less than 12.

This game once again threw up the question of what is to be done with Austin Gleeson, who had to wait until the 34th minute to get his first possession. In total he managed six possessions, compared with an average of 11 of the other eight players (including Stephen O’Keeffe) who played the whole game. Jack Prendergast and Pauric Mahony both had ten possessions. This lack of involvement has been a recurring feature of Gleeson’s performances with Waterford. He doesn’t appear to have the ability to read the game in order to get into positions where he can get on the ball, and Waterford certainly have no plan in place to get the ball into his hand (as Tipperary had in the case of Noel McGrath last week). It may be noted that, in Waterford’s best performance in last year’s championship – ironically against Tipperary – Gleeson was stationed at centre back, where he was a recurring star at under-age level.

The case of the other Gleeson, Conor, is a further illustration for me of the ineptitude of the Waterford mentors. Before he received his first yellow card Gleeson had already been cautioned by the referee. Immediately after he got this card, he fouled Seamus Callanan over near the Ryan Stand and got away with it. He then barged into Callanan on his way back to his position. He was a red card waiting to happen, and this duly occurred exactly one minute later when he stupidly rugby-tackled Bonnar Maher. It seemed to me that he was not up to the required level of championship hurling after his long layoff. Meanwhile, you would have to ask what Shane McNulty, who had started all of Waterford’s games since the start of the year and played his two best games in a Waterford shirt in the two games prior to the Tipperary match, felt about being dropped for the latter game.

The one silver lining from this game was the excellent performances of Callum Lyons and Jack Prendergast, while Conor Prunty also did quite well, especially after he was switched onto Callanan (where he should have been from the start). Lyons’s first touch is fantastic while Prendergast is really good at getting into position to receive passes and run at defences. We also had Pauric Mahony back taking the frees, and showing that, if he had done the same against Clare, we would almost certainly have won that game.

Finally, a word about our minors who put in a great effort and probably would have won their game had not their best player, Rory Furlong, not been rather harshly sent off just before half time. This was a double whammy as it resulted in centre forward Aaron Ryan being brought back to fill the centre back position. Even then, the Tipp goalie made a brilliant save late in the game while I could not believe the Waterford forward who sent over a point in the last minute when Waterford needed a goal and had got inside the Tipp defence after a good passing movement.

While their decision-making was poor at times, Waterford played a lot of good hurling in this game, and especially in the second half. What really impressed me about the team was the number of good big players they had (for under-17) and how good some of them were to win the ball in the air. If we had a good development and coaching setup (which we don’t) these players would all be earmarked for special nurturing, given our current lack of ball winners at senior level. In this respect, I would also mention that DJ Foran was one of Waterford’s best players (scoring three points) in the draw against Tipperary last year.

KevIRL

East and West end terrace tickets available on Tickets.ie

PTH2009

Tbh atm its look almost impossible for us too get Top 3. Even 2 wins might not be enough unless we score a lot and a few things go in our favour

We beat Limerick and cork who both lose the rest of there games. We would finish 3rd in that scenario.

If only we scrapped a draw against Clare

deisedude

PTH2009 wrote: »

Tbh atm its look almost impossible for us too get Top 3. Even 2 wins might not be enough unless we score a lot and a few things go in our favour

We beat Limerick and cork who both lose the rest of there games. We would finish 3rd in that scenario.

If only we scrapped a draw against Clare

I think its about salvaging our season at this stage and forget about getting out of Munster. The points difference from the Tipp game is bound to come against us even if we were to win the 2 games

KevIRL

Brick in line to start Sunday according to the Examiner. Kieran Bennett and Maurice also.

upthedeise16

KevIRL wrote: »

Brick in line to start Sunday according to the Examiner. Kieran Bennett and Maurice also.

Full forward it seems, so are we just going to lump in high ball and hope to win the breaks?
I’m a huge fan of Brick and he is a Waterford legend but for me, 2 of his poorest performances in a Waterford jersey were last year at wing back and the league final at midfield against Lienrick, he just didn’t have the pace for that Limerick side. And he was excellent against Tipp last year aside from the error for the goal and always gives his all.
Maybe he offers more in a full forward line. I’ll happily be wrong come Sunday but I think Brick’s time has passed.

hardybuck

upthedeise16 wrote: »

Full forward it seems, so are we just going to lump in high ball and hope to win the breaks?
I’m a huge fan of Brick and he is a Waterford legend but for me, 2 of his poorest performances in a Waterford jersey were last year at wing back and the league final at midfield against Lienrick, he just didn’t have the pace for that Limerick side. And he was excellent against Tipp last year aside from the error for the goal and always gives his all.
Maybe he offers more in a full forward line. I’ll happily be wrong come Sunday but I think Brick’s time has passed.

In probably our last four games in league or championship our full forward line have been nullified. It is worth a try putting a player in there who can win aerial possession. His nous might help the inexperienced lads around him in there.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Walsh Park is as good a place as anywhere to play the Brick as there's less space and his cleverness and experience will make up a few yards. It's a shame we didn't start him half forward against Clare and maybe the backs wouldn't have been under such pressure. Starting him at midfield v Limerick in the league final is as bizarre a decision as Davy's in starting him full back v Tipp in that munster final in Cork. He was never going to have the legs to match that Limerick duo.

hurler on de ditch

upthedeise16 wrote: »

KevIRL wrote: »

Brick in line to start Sunday according to the Examiner. Kieran Bennett and Maurice also.

Full forward it seems, so are we just going to lump in high ball and hope to win the breaks?
I’m a huge fan of Brick and he is a Waterford legend but for me, 2 of his poorest performances in a Waterford jersey were last year at wing back and the league final at midfield against Lienrick, he just didn’t have the pace for that Limerick side. And he was excellent against Tipp last year aside from the error for the goal and always gives his all.
Maybe he offers more in a full forward line. I’ll happily be wrong come Sunday but I think Brick’s time has passed.

Ahem !

hurler on de ditch

hardybuck wrote: »

upthedeise16 wrote: »

Full forward it seems, so are we just going to lump in high ball and hope to win the breaks?
I’m a huge fan of Brick and he is a Waterford legend but for me, 2 of his poorest performances in a Waterford jersey were last year at wing back and the league final at midfield against Lienrick, he just didn’t have the pace for that Limerick side. And he was excellent against Tipp last year aside from the error for the goal and always gives his all.
Maybe he offers more in a full forward line. I’ll happily be wrong come Sunday but I think Brick’s time has passed.

In probably our last four games in league or championship our full forward line have been nullified. It is worth a try putting a player in there who can win aerial possession. His nous might help the inexperienced lads around him in there.

as someone mentioned here before ,AI final vs Galway the brick had no possession of the ball in the second half ,that was two years ago and he has tailed off considerably since ,,he is a legend of Waterford hurling but his day is up ..I fear for Waterford hurling I really do ,,

thesaturdayman

brick = legend no doubt

to think he was a sub in 2002 all ireland semi final & 17 years later he still there. sensational.

i have to ask the question though about our structures & underage teams etc. How or why we are looking at brick at 36/37 surely in our hour of need - it is widely accepted his best days are behind him & i do think myself the tighter WP will suit him best if anywhere.

Seriously though - where are our underage players coming through? Rewind 2-3 years ago people were up in a heap when derek played the much and often unfairly maligned jake dillon ahead of for instance stephen bennett / patrick curran / colin dunford - it now looks like a nearly 40 year old (albeit legend) is going to pass them out now, brick is hardly improving at this age of his life, so what does that say for the rest firstly and secondly the lads 20-21-22-23 that should be pushing into the team now, where are they?

Are they just not good enough as it appears? Did we win a soft minor and u21 with that group? or are there fundamental underlying issues? Questions need to and should be asked.

Clare got the big man small man act right in WP against us day 1 - naturally we are now following suit - i hope we can go and get the result, i hope there is a huge reaction from the panel - but i just dont know!

Fred C Dobbs

Felt sorry for Brick in the League final, chasing shadows around Croke Park.

He might still have a 35-50 minutes in him and maybe management feel he might disrupt the Limerick defence ? Possibly but smacks of desperation ; then again, any other strategy to win some ball in the forwards has not worked to date.

hardybuck

Let's be clear for a minute about underage.

Brick Walsh wouldn't have played on the standard of underage teams we've had recently. The best underage teams he'd have played on were football teams - i.e. winning the Munster U21 title in 2003.

Stradbally wouldn't have had great underage teams. There wasn't the colleges success that you've had recently - in any of the schools in the county.

People forget here that the great teams of the 00s came off the back of underage sides which hardly won a game for a decade.

mountgomery burns

thesaturdayman wrote: »

brick = legend no doubt

to think he was a sub in 2002 all ireland semi final & 17 years later he still there. sensational.

i have to ask the question though about our structures & underage teams etc. !

You've asked that question a few times already. What has our most successful underage team of all time (winning Minor and u21 all Irelands) not delivering at Senior level got to do with underage structures?

The only other thing I'd say is wait for the team to be announced first and then see how Brick performs if picked before writing him off.

There's plenty of comment and no doubt some of it valid since the Tipp game, but it's time for us to park the negativity and get behind the team. We were all crying out for these home games last year and feeling sorry for ourselves, we have them now. But the atmosphere was awful for the Clare game.

The talk of player unrest or not good being good enough may or may not be true and we may exit the championship tamely, but if we have the same meek atmosphere on Sunday as we did against Clare then we as supporters absolutely deserve no better. Time to die with the boots on and leave the post mortems till we are actually out of the championship.

DeiseDawg

mountgomery burns wrote: »

You've asked that question a few times already. What has our most successful underage team of all time (winning Minor and u21 all Irelands) not delivering at Senior level got to do with underage structures?

The only other thing I'd say is wait for the team to be announced first and then see how Brick performs if picked before writing him off.

There's plenty of comment and no doubt some of it valid since the Tipp game, but it's time for us to park the negativity and get behind the team. We were all crying out for these home games last year and feeling sorry for ourselves, we have them now. But the atmosphere was awful for the Clare game.

The talk of player unrest or not good being good enough may or may not be true and we may exit the championship tamely, but if we have the same meek atmosphere on Sunday as we did against Clare then we as supporters absolutely deserve no better. Time to die with the boots on and leave the post mortems till we are actually out of the championship.

Well said. Let's get behind the team and management and not go in to the game feeling beaten before we start. They have the skills and the training done, let's help them put it in to action by shouting them on with encouragement from the start.
We were out in support on the quays of Waterford two years ago, we should muster that fine support again.
C'mon, shoulders back, chest out and roar on OUR lads. They are, after all, representing Waterford. Let's create the atmosphere for them to flourish in

SW1985

Many people have got what they asked for this year and the results have been somewhat predictable. Perhaps the naive ideas fade away now. There's so much more to it than throwing the lightweight forwards of the under 21 team into the seniors and expecting the same results. 15 on 15 happens nowhere these days. The whole anti-tactics movement in Waterford over the last few years was borne out of naivety and a lack of understanding of the modern game. As irritating as it's been to listen to it I understand that people don't always get things right and often need a demonstration before realising that they are off track. We are in the middle of that now.

Having seen the limitations of the group (at least in relation to the unrealistic expectations) I'd like to think people would be a bit more open to a more pragmatic approach going forward. McGrath wasn't wasting a golden generation of forwards. He was trying to find a way to win an All Ireland without one. His team were tactically astute, focused and tireless. Right now the players look completely lost, without structure or direction and devoid of belief in what they are doing.

I don't mean this as a dig at Fanning. He seems a good guy and I'll be in Walsh Park on Sunday hoping with every ounce of my being that he can turn things around. But if you told me Derek would be back next season I'd be delighted. I would love to see a return to the relentless, dogged, focused approach of his teams and I think the likes of Prunty, Lyons and Prendergast would absolutely thrive in a McGrath team.

hardybuck

But is that passing the buck by the players?

Do they need to be carefully micromanaged and carry out very precise instructions, and perhaps have they not developed the ability to read the game and make decisions on the field as games develop?

If I was critical of the current setup I'd be critical of the player's touch and their lack of game management ability.

When we had great teams in the past we knew how to create and exploit space. The team didn't always know how to close down space at the other end of the field but that's another story.

SW1985

hardybuck wrote: »

But is that passing the buck by the players?

Do they need to be carefully micromanaged and carry out very precise instructions, and perhaps have they not developed the ability to read the game and make decisions on the field as games develop?

If I was critical of the current setup I'd be critical of the player's touch and their lack of game management ability.

Well what's the solution then? Just tell them to play better? Performance comes from getting a lot of factors right. Focus, motivation, training, clarity of approach etc. I struggle to see how a group of players turns to crap overnight.

I don't think they were ever micromanaged and asked to carry out precise instructions. But they had a clear plan of how they wanted to play and certain grounding principles to fall back on within games. I doubt if any serious team is going out and trying to play "off the cuff" these days to be totally honest.

The player's touch question is an interesting one. 2 and 3 years ago we'd have said our lads were among the very best in this department. What's missing now? Where's the focus gone? The hand eye coordination won't have disappeared. I tend to think it's a lack of belief in what they are doing. They don't believe in what they are doing right now. It manifests in the small moments. I could be completely wrong though. I don't know any of the lads personally.

hurler on de ditch

SW1985 wrote: »

Many people have got what they asked for this year and the results have been somewhat predictable. Perhaps the naive ideas fade away now. There's so much more to it than throwing the lightweight forwards of the under 21 team into the seniors and expecting the same results. 15 on 15 happens nowhere these days. The whole anti-tactics movement in Waterford over the last few years was borne out of naivety and a lack of understanding of the modern game. As irritating as it's been to listen to it I understand that people don't always get things right and often need a demonstration before realising that they are off track. We are in the middle of that now.

Having seen the limitations of the group (at least in relation to the unrealistic expectations) I'd like to think people would be a bit more open to a more pragmatic approach going forward. McGrath wasn't wasting a golden generation of forwards. He was trying to find a way to win an All Ireland without one. His team were tactically astute, focused and tireless. Right now the players look completely lost, without structure or direction and devoid of belief in what they are doing.

I don't mean this as a dig at Fanning. He seems a good guy and I'll be in Walsh Park on Sunday hoping with every ounce of my being that he can turn things around. But if you told me Derek would be back next season I'd be delighted. I would love to see a return to the relentless, dogged, focused approach of his teams and I think the likes of Prunty, Lyons and Prendergast would absolutely thrive in a McGrath team.

Sweet Jesus, Prunty and Lyons,under Mc Grath would be seriously overworked in defence and Prendergast would be running around doing a Dunford or O Halloran on it ,receiving the ball in their own half running forty yards to look up and see one Waterford man in the full forward surrounded by three opposition players .let no one forget the absolute puke hurling that we have had to endure under D Fitz and then D mc Grath and the last day in thurles ,we went down a few points to tipp in the early stages as we were expected to do with a hugely fired up tipp side playing in front of a very big attendance. What we done next was unbelievable ,dropped TDB back as sweeper and started to defend a four ,five ,six point deficit ,game over , half time and the most brainless tactic ever ,throw on Maurice in a two man full forward line to win ball against a four or five man defence ,#FU#$KINGBRAINLESS

SW1985

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

Sweet Jesus, Prunty and Lyons,under Mc Grath would be seriously overworked in defence and Prendergast would be running around doing a Dunford or O Halloran on it ,receiving the ball in their own half running forty yards to look up and see one Waterford man in the full forward surrounded by three opposition players .let no one forget the absolute puke hurling that we have had to endure under D Fitz and then D mc Grath and the last day in thurles ,we went down a few points to tipp in the early stages as we were expected to do with a hugely fired up tipp side playing in front of a very big attendance. What we done next was unbelievable ,dropped TDB back as sweeper and started to defend a four ,five ,six point deficit ,game over , half time and the most brainless tactic ever ,throw on Maurice in a two man full forward line to win ball against a four or five man defence ,#FU#$KINGBRAINLESS

You are exactly the type of supporter I was referring to. Sadly whereas some will re-evaluate upon new evidence, you are too entrenched to ever even consider that you might be wrong. You will just keep banging that same drum because it's all you know.

I would absolutely love for us to get back to that "puke hurling" we played under Derek. We put up high scores and were competitive in an All Ireland final for the only time in my life. It was great.

Stopitwillya

Brick will do a good job Sunday. Playing him midfield in the league final was crazy. Full forward will suit him down to the ground. Great man to win his own ball, something none of the rest of the forwards are capable of and if the right ball goes into him (on top of him and the full back) close to the goal, expect a few of them to stick, and goal chances to come.

All these light forwards we have need someone like brick around them. Hope Maurice starts too.

Stopitwillya

The man with the best plan was Sean Power. The only Waterford man to win an all Ireland as manager. Should have got the job. See in the paper he is managing dunhill this year. Will be interesting to see how they do.

Stopitwillya

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

SW1985 wrote: »

Many people have got what they asked for this year and the results have been somewhat predictable. Perhaps the naive ideas fade away now. There's so much more to it than throwing the lightweight forwards of the under 21 team into the seniors and expecting the same results. 15 on 15 happens nowhere these days. The whole anti-tactics movement in Waterford over the last few years was borne out of naivety and a lack of understanding of the modern game. As irritating as it's been to listen to it I understand that people don't always get things right and often need a demonstration before realising that they are off track. We are in the middle of that now.

Having seen the limitations of the group (at least in relation to the unrealistic expectations) I'd like to think people would be a bit more open to a more pragmatic approach going forward. McGrath wasn't wasting a golden generation of forwards. He was trying to find a way to win an All Ireland without one. His team were tactically astute, focused and tireless. Right now the players look completely lost, without structure or direction and devoid of belief in what they are doing.

I don't mean this as a dig at Fanning. He seems a good guy and I'll be in Walsh Park on Sunday hoping with every ounce of my being that he can turn things around. But if you told me Derek would be back next season I'd be delighted. I would love to see a return to the relentless, dogged, focused approach of his teams and I think the likes of Prunty, Lyons and Prendergast would absolutely thrive in a McGrath team.

Sweet Jesus, Prunty and Lyons,under Mc Grath would be seriously overworked in defence and Prendergast would be running around doing a Dunford or O Halloran on it ,receiving the ball in their own half running forty yards to look up and see one Waterford man in the full forward surrounded by three opposition players .let no one forget the absolute puke hurling that we have had to endure under D Fitz and then D mc Grath and the last day in thurles ,we went down a few points to tipp in the early stages as we were expected to do with a hugely fired up tipp side playing in front of a very big attendance. What we done next was unbelievable ,dropped TDB back as sweeper and started to defend a four ,five ,six point deficit ,game over , half time and the most brainless tactic ever ,throw on Maurice in a two man full forward line to win ball against a four or five man defence ,#FU#$KINGBRAINLESS

Agree with this. Sick of negative managers ruining Waterford teams in the last decade.
Was expecting negative tactics from fanning after all his time with Davy. Up to the league final was pleasantly surprised to see Waterford having a go. Last 3 matches we have played too negatively and the results speak for themselves.

Road-Hog

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Walsh Park is as good a place as anywhere to play the Brick as there's less space and his cleverness and experience will make up a few yards. It's a shame we didn't start him half forward against Clare and maybe the backs wouldn't have been under such pressure. Starting him at midfield v Limerick in the league final is as bizarre a decision as Davy's in starting him full back v Tipp in that munster final in Cork. He was never going to have the legs to match that Limerick duo.

Are people ever going to accept that the area of the playing surface at Walsh Park is equal to that of thurles......there may be less than half a meter in length between them but width is equal if not greater at Walsh Park......😡😡😡

914

Stopitwillya wrote: »

The man with the best plan was Sean Power. The only Waterford man to win an all Ireland as manager. Should have got the job. See in the paper he is managing dunhill this year. Will be interesting to see how they do.

Interesting to see between, minor, u21 and senior we have won 7 All Irelands.

Sean Power has managed two of those All Ireland wins. While I wouldn't be calling for Fannings head as everyone deserves some time, surely Sean Power would have to be in the running the job if it became available in the future, that is providing he would go for it.

Anyway thats enough talk of a managers position as we have one in place and I'm hoping Pairic, his team and the players leave everything on the field for the next two games.

hardybuck

914 wrote: »

Interesting to see between, minor, u21 and senior we have won 7 All Irelands.

Sean Power has managed two of those All Ireland wins. While I wouldn't be calling for Fannings head as everyone deserves some time, surely Sean Power would have to be in the running the job if it became available in the future, that is providing he would go for it.

Anyway thats enough talk of a managers position as we have one in place and I'm hoping Pairic, his team and the players leave everything on the field for the next two games.

Has Sean Power done anything with any team since?