Progressive Ireland -- what's next?

Berserker

I'd like to see :

- Fathers right.
- Assisted suicide and euthanasia.
- The Irish language being removed from public signs etc and it being made optional in schools.
- Higher taxes on junk food, alcohol (significant) and cigarettes.
- Welfare cuts for those who are able to work but chose not to.

Joe Dog wrote: »

It's such a pity and proper right wing party hasn't developed yet in ireland it would be good for the country if it did.

Totally agree. There is a ridiculous imbalance to the left in Irish politics now. You have to chose between hard left (PBP, SF), left (the rest) or centre left (FF & FG).

Yer Da sells Avon

Permabear wrote: »

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I'm more surprised that anyone would think that something so basic as a home is some kind of luxury, tbh. Ultimately, it would probably cost a lot less than the state paying private landlords via housing assistance payments, etc (hundreds of millions every year).

People would have to pay, for example, a quarter of their household monthly income (deducted at source from anyone receiving a state pension or any other form of social welfare).

goose2005

heroin on prescription for the especially hopeless cases

Roger_007

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

A constitutional right to a home (an actual home, not a hotel room or a bed in a hostel), provided by the state, regardless of income.

How would it be decided who has a right to a home?
Would every adult be entitled to a home of their own once they reach 18 years of age?
If it's decided that every 'family' is entitled to a home, how do you define a family?
If it's decided that a 'family' is entitled to a home, and then they split up; do they become entitled to two homes?
If someone is given a home and they thrash it, are they entitled to another one?

Spanish Eyes

I think if we stick with the current Gov we will be OK. They are dependent on FF for votes, together with a motley crew of indos don't forget.

But they are dragging us into the 21st Century and not worrying about the fallout.

The abortion referendum was their biggest success. It must have been worrying, but lo and behold, no worries at all.

We have moved on and others still doff the cap.

Pac1Man

Think I'll just vote 'no' regardless of what the next referendum is. Felt good this time around I must say.

Spanish Eyes

Pac1Man wrote: »

Think I'll just vote 'no' regardless of what the next referendum is. Felt good this time around I must say.

I doubt any future referendum will have the impact that the current one did.

So vote no in the future, and away you go. I doubt anyone will care.

Yer Da sells Avon

Roger_007 wrote: »

How would it be decided who has a right to a home?
Would every adult be entitled to a home of their own once they reach 18 years of age?

If they can pay a quarter of their income for it, then why not? I'm talking about a basic, ordinary home here, not some kind of luxury mansion.

Roger_007 wrote:

If it's decided that every 'family' is entitled to a home, how do you define a family?
If it's decided that a 'family' is entitled to a home, and then they split up; do they become entitled to two homes?

Provided whoever moves out is prepared to pay a quarter of their income for it, why not?

Roger_007 wrote:

If someone is given a home and they thrash it, are they entitled to another one?

Probably not, but 99% of people don't destroy their homes.

Berserker

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

If they can pay a quarter of their income for it, then why not? I'm talking about a basic, ordinary home here, not some kind of luxury mansion.

How do you plan on dealing with people who turn down the housing they are offered because it's not in their desired location or it's a three bed semi detached house instead of four bed?

Yer Da sells Avon

Berserker wrote: »

How do you plan on dealing with people who turn down the housing they are offered because it's not in their desired location or it's a three bed semi detached houses instead of four bed?

Sorry, I should have been more clear... I'm not planning on doing any of these things because I actually don't have the power to.

If someone turned down a house, the state would have fulfilled its constitutional obligation by offering it to them in the first place.

Pugzilla

Religion out of schools and legalisation of cannabis.

Sweetemotion

It's going to be the easy targets.

Ban smoking outside with a heavy fine but junkies banging up on th luas are left alone.

Ban catholic teachings from all school but let minorities preach theirs.

Tax alcohol in the name of health, so much. That the people turn to the black market which kills more.

Gender quotas, giving people jobs who are not qualified for the role.

Restricting speech, making people afraid to show who they are really are.

Hector Bellend

Legalisation of drugs?

Legalisation of prostitution?

Euthanasia?

Blaizes

Joe Dog wrote: »

Get rid of excessive political correctness, it's now gone too far in the other direction and so called liberals are now the least tolerant sub section of society.

I was fairly left wing in the past but as I've got older I've began to hate the supposedly progressive, liberal ideology that has been pushed by the media in this country.

It's such a pity and proper right wing party hasn't developed yet in ireland it would be good for the country if it did.

Have to agree far too much political correctness.It's nauseating.They need to row back on that and realise we are not all clones of each other.Dont think it will happen anytime too soon though.

jeonahr

The problem with Irish in schools is that it's expected of students to have the basic knowledge and grammar after primary school. But not all primary schools do Irish to the same standard and some do more or less than others. I think making it not compulsory in primary schools is the way to go and then teaching Irish the way MFL is in secondary schools. Expecting students to have almost the same fluency in Irish and English is ridiculous. I can speak, read and understand more German than Irish just because of the way they're both taught. Modern foreign languages in secondary school are being taught as a language that you should be able to understand, whereas Irish is being taught in a way that expects you to know grammar and have all the basics learned off.

Berserker

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Gender quotas, giving people jobs who are not qualified for the role.

Come to think of it, I think you may have struck gold with this on. I can see gender quotas. Used to do some work for a company in NI that had quotas based on background. It was an absolute disaster.

Pac1Man

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I doubt anyone will care.

:eek:

You will be the first of many subscribing to my blog.

BOHtox

I see a lot of people saying "end Direct Provision" and I'm just wondering what's their opinion on that. It's my understanding that asylum seeking refugees from war-torn countries are accommodated under Direct Provision, surely people don't have a problem with that?

Now my understanding of DP isn't the best. Is the problem that the provision of accommodation isn't up to scratch? Was it initially a short term solution and ended up being a long-term one?

Genuine questions here. I'm all for taking refugees, even more than we do if we have the capacity, and all for integrating them in to society etc. Just wondering what people mean by "end DP" and what the alternatives are.

Permabear

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Graces7

BOHtox wrote: »

I see a lot of people saying "end Direct Provision" and I'm just wondering what's their opinion on that. It's my understanding that asylum seeking refugees from war-torn countries are accommodated under Direct Provision, surely people don't have a problem with that?

Now my understanding of DP isn't the best. Is the problem that the provision of accommodation isn't up to scratch? Was it initially a short term solution and ended up being a long-term one?

Genuine questions here. I'm all for taking refugees, even more than we do if we have the capacity, and all for integrating them in to society etc. Just wondering what people mean by "end DP" and what the alternatives are.

Well said and thank you for your humanity.. Yet another example of the regression, as opposed to progression, in this thread..

Permabear

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Skobey_brady

Permabear wrote: »

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Direct provision is a facility for failed asylum seekers who then go on to make endless appeals, if the government actually allowed those people citizenship, word would spread and we would be swamped with migrants, its a way for the government to deter other bogus asylum seekers ( we will keep you more or less incarcerated)

Geuze

BOHtox wrote: »

I see a lot of people saying "end Direct Provision" and I'm just wondering what's their opinion on that. It's my understanding that asylum seeking refugees from war-torn countries are accommodated under Direct Provision, surely people don't have a problem with that?

Now my understanding of DP isn't the best. Is the problem that the provision of accommodation isn't up to scratch? Was it initially a short term solution and ended up being a long-term one?

Genuine questions here. I'm all for taking refugees, even more than we do if we have the capacity, and all for integrating them in to society etc. Just wondering what people mean by "end DP" and what the alternatives are.

We allow bogus AS to appeal and appeal and appeal.

So they choose to stay in DP for many years, appealing and appealing, through long legal processes.

The alternative is to reduce the timescale radically.

This is planned, although I don't know the details.

The Gardai's Operation Vantage has exposed the scale of sham marriages among bogus AS, mainly Asian men.

Geuze

BOHtox wrote: »

Genuine questions here. I'm all for taking refugees, even more than we do if we have the capacity, and all for integrating them in to society etc. Just wondering what people mean by "end DP" and what the alternatives are.

Most people agree with the Govt accepting 4,000 genuine refugees from Syria.

But many AS are bogus, and are not from war-torn places, and are simply economic migrants pretending to be AS.

The alternative to is to deport these people fast.

Skobey_brady

Geuze wrote: »

Most people agree with the Govt accepting 4,000 genuine refugees from Syria.

But many AS are bogus, and are not from war-torn places, and are simply economic migrants pretending to be AS.

The alternative to is to deport these people fast.

Ending direct provision is a major pet project for any serious and dedicated virtue signaller

weldoninhio

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

If they can pay a quarter of their income for it, then why not? I'm talking about a basic, ordinary home here, not some kind of luxury mansion.



Provided whoever moves out is prepared to pay a quarter of their income for it, why not?



Probably not, but 99% of people don't destroy their homes.

So I can quit my job, get E188 a week tax free, E141 left after rent of E47 a week. probably more a week than I have now after transport, lunches, rent etc so E564 disposable income a month. Maybe take E50 a month for electricity, less if you're thrifty.

Where do I sign up??

Yer Da sells Avon

Permabear wrote: »

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I'm sure you have visions of 'communism' whenever someone suggests anything left of Thatcher. We've never had a communist era here in Ireland, but we did have an era where the state built loads of houses. Nothing wrong with them at all - the vast majority are still standing today, albeit no longer owned by the state. All I'm really suggesting is building more of them so that people who can't afford to (or who choose not to) buy are guaranteed somewhere to live, without having to pay what I'm sure we can all agree are extortionate rental prices.

Permabear wrote:

This post had been deleted.

I have news for you. People on middle-to-high incomes are already paying more than a quarter of their income to rent crappy Celtic Tiger apartments with paper-thin walls and dodgy plumbing. Regardless of that, I never said anything about preventing people from buying their own house. Once again, you're probably seeing communism where none exists.

Blaizes

Permabear wrote: »

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I'd like to see an end to homelessness.This is the big fundamental.If in doubt check out Maslow's theory. Otherwise we are going south and repercussions are huge as a society.

Muzzymor

I don't know exactly what form it will take. Perhaps for example a lot of time spent on some sort of progressive social policy regarding gender fluid people or the rights of gay couples to buy gay marriage cakes in christian bakeries or whatever other issue taking up everyone's time and energy. Everyone pats each other on the back talking about how much respect this will give us in the world media.

Meanwhile, hospital overcrowding increases, house prices and rent continue to spiral out of control with nothing more than lip service done to alleviate it, increasing numbers of people homeless, burglary on the increase, continuing erosion of employee rights.

Rinse and repeat.

Anything to distract the plebs from the old rich vs poor thing, basically.

Irish Guitarist

All women in Ireland should be forced to wear a burka. That should annoy the catholic church which seems to be the definition of progressive according to people here.

Mtx

Farming, help farmers earn a living from their produce without having EU subsidies.

Berserker

Mtx wrote: »

Farming, help farmers earn a living from their produce without having EU subsidies.

Any idea how much that would cost the consumer and/or the government? That's a genuine question, not a sarcastic remark.

Blaizes wrote: »

I'd like to see an end to homelessness.This is the big fundamental.If in doubt check out Maslow's theory. Otherwise we are going south and repercussions are huge as a society.

No sure what theory you are on about. In his hierarchy of needs, shelter is identified as one of the 'physiological' needs, which he identifies as a basic need. Housing people in hotel rooms satisfies his definition of shelter, so we have nothing to worry about.

Taytoland

Joe Dog wrote: »

Get rid of excessive political correctness, it's now gone too far in the other direction and so called liberals are now the least tolerant sub section of society.

I was fairly left wing in the past but as I've got older I've began to hate the supposedly progressive, liberal ideology that has been pushed by the media in this country.

It's such a pity and proper right wing party hasn't developed yet in ireland it would be good for the country if it did.

That is why it will collapse in on itself. Are Irish people just going to keep voting for progressive parties for all time or support progressive policies for all time? It won't work, a conservative party will emerge sooner or later to fill the void and mop up the disillusioned people fed up with it.

Pugzilla

There will always be homeless people in a capitalist society.

Permabear

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milehip

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Has to be only one thing and one thing only

Getting rid of traffic lights on or 10 yards after roundabouts , Absolute worst thing about living in Ireland ,

+1 for switching them to flashing amber between 12 and 5 am

whisky_galore

Pugzilla wrote: »

There will always be homeless people in a capitalist society.

So does that mean we should do sfa about the homeless?

OldMrBrennan83

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An_Toirpin

Infanticide like progressive Continental Europe. Yayyy progress

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote:

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In fact, it sounds like living in general in such states is fairly ****e

_Dara_

Assisted dying. Please please please.

_Dara_

kunst nugget wrote: »

The father's rights issues and their importance are only starting to gain traction and they will become more prominent as campaigning increases. The abortion referendum and women's rights didn't appear out of nowhere as a vote getter - it was the result of decades of campaigning.

Absolutely, kunst nugget!

Changing socially-conditioned mindsets (and we ALL are conditioned in one way or another) takes time and effort and saying there’s no point going there is incredibly defeatist and, to be honest, kinda whiny.

dude_abided

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

A constitutional right to a home (an actual home, not a hotel room or a bed in a hostel), provided by the state, regardless of income.

Elect this man. Me and my GF would love to quit our jobs where we pay easily 5k month in taxes and just get a home? I always wanted to do do wood turning, can I please get a garage?

dude_abided

_Dara_ wrote: »

Assisted dying. Please please please.

There's some weird çunts on these forums, someone will surely help you?

_Dara_

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Good for him, to be honest. It could have backfired spectacularly on him, but it didn’t. He stuck his neck out. Show me a politician who doesn’t in some way act out of self-interest. Nothing new there. But something has been gained from that self-interest.

But just because Varadkar did the above, doesn’t mean that people haven’t been working passionately on the subject of legalisation of abortion for a long time. I know some myself personally.

Pugzilla

whisky_galore wrote: »

So does that mean we should do sfa about the homeless?

Yes. Their numbers are so negligible in this country that they shouldn't warrant any thought.

_Dara_

dude_abided wrote: »

There's some weird çunts on these forums, someone will surely help you?

Assisting someone to commit suicide is a serious offence. Actually, I think it might be classed as murder.

Pugzilla

Wanderer78 wrote: »

In fact, it sounds like living in general in such states is fairly ****e

Yep

Yer Da sells Avon

dude_abided wrote: »

Elect this man. Me and my GF would love to quit our jobs where we pay easily 5k month in taxes and just get a home? I always wanted to do do wood turning, can I please get a garage?

As an added bonus, you'd be freeing up two very well-paid jobs for people who actually want them.

MarkY91

jiltloop wrote: »

We're still lagging way behind on Father's rights.

Definitely should be a move towards more secular education, I don't agree with removing compulsory Irish. I hated it when I was in school but that's more because of the way it's taught. That's where the change should happen, teach it like French, German etc. Learning poems and essay as Gaeilge as if it's English is a ridiculous way to teach a language that is not already spoken conversationally by most.

Or we can just teach french or german at an earlier age so they can make use of the hundreds of hours they're wasting learning Irish.