Pressure mounts on Kathleen Kennedy to step down as head of Lucas Film?

Royale with Cheese

I'd be a starwars fan and saw the last three in the cinema, the only three times I've been to the cinema in the past three years in fact. I won't be going to this latest one, not because I never want to see it but because it's only 6 months since the last jedi. It just feels like saturation now, and I didn't think the last jedi was great so that doesn't really make me want to rush out and see another one. I'll wait til I can watch it at home.

Hande hoche!

They should put Kathleen Kennedy in charge of the new Lord of the rings tv series.

Snake Plisken

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And I'm out, typical of boards of late whenever something like Star Wars is discussed. Someone doesn't share your love of all things relating to the kids film Star Wars, then rather than discuss the topic like an adult just resort to veiled insults.

Right I’ve edited my post to keep you happy btw you are the one who brought up the whole 40 year old fanboy/kids film (not so veiled attacks ) in the first place now argue against of any of my points I made in my post. It was real easy to keep the fanboys happy and attract new fans with new characters JJ did it well with Han. Rian made Luke into a grumpy old fart who literally disappeared like a stale old fart at the end of TLJ!
Unless JJ works out a way to bring back Luke in the next, LucasFilm and Disney will have lost the fans that you hate so much. At the end of the day it’s a business and lower box office returns is not going to be accepted by the parent company.

Snake Plisken

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Right I’ve edited my post to keep you happy btw you are the one who brought up the whole 40 year old fanboy/kids film (not so veiled attacks ) in the first place now argue against of any of my points I made in my post. It was real easy to keep the fanboys happy and attract new fans with new characters JJ did it well with Han. Rian made Luke into a grumpy old fart who literally disappeared like a stale old fart at the end of TLJ!
Unless JJ works out a way to bring back Luke in the next, LucasFilm and Disney will have lost the fans that you hate so much. At the end of the day it’s a business and lower box office returns is not going to be accepted by the parent company.

Hang on, hate the fans, where did I say that? What I take issue with are the grown men who grew up with Star Wars and think that the new films need to solely appeal to them. At times the reactions from these fans is akin to a jilted boy friend facebook stalking his ex and crying that she has found someone new.

If they bring Luke back to appease 40 year old fans then I am well and truly out, nothing worse than a filmmaker desperately trying to appeal to a fanbase by retconning events to make them happy. It's the cheapest and saddest story telling device, killing off Luke makes perfect sense from a story perspective and sets up the events of a broken resistance in Episode 9. One of the few things I really liked about The Last Jedi was Luke's death, it felt like the right move and alongside Yoda popping up a highlight.

If you want to compare it to the Marvel films as you did, well then Solo is doing similar business to many of the smaller Marvel stand-alone films. Captain America: The First Avenger had a worldwide gross of under $400 million, Ant-Man barely did over $500, Thor, it's first sequel and Doctor Strange all pulled in less than Solo did, Strange did about $750 thousand better in the US than Solo.

If we are comparing like with like then Marvel and Star Wars are doing about the same, while the Avengers films make billions and Black Panther way overperformed the standalone films, especially the earlier ones didn't exactly set the world on fire and let's not forget that The Incredible Hulk was a box office flop making $263 million back on a rumoured production budget of $150 million. I don't recall many people calling for Kevin Feige to be fired for ruining the Marvel films as a result of a single film underperforming.

Snake Plisken

So here is another youtuber now wait before you attack me Jeremy Jahns is a 30 something film reviewer who gives a balanced analysis on the whole Star Wars fans vs Disney. Worth a watch it is interesting the little clip he shows of Kathleen Kennedy talking at the handover from Lucas. Also the quote from Lucas saying he was fed up of being shouted at all the time by fanboys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35aEjj8C4Cg

wandatowell

I'm not a star wars fan at all, having said that I'll go watch them in the cinema as I'm a movie fan but the amount of videos popping up about Kathleen is ridiculous.

Snake Plisken

Snake Plisken wrote: »

So here is another youtuber now wait before you attack me Jeremy Jahns is a 30 something film reviewer who gives a balanced analysis on the whole Star Wars fans vs Disney. Worth a watch it is interesting the little clip he shows of Kathleen Kennedy talking at the handover from Lucas. Also the quote from Lucas saying he was fed up of being shouted at all the time by fanboys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35aEjj8C4Cg

Meh, 2 seconds in and already I'm out. I have never understood this obsession people have with using random Youtube opinions in discussion. Why would I care enough about the opinion of some random guy to spend 15 minutes listening to him talk about Star Wars? Does he have startling insight into products that aren't widely discussed elsewhere? Or has he met a member of the cast in passing and know where Kennedy has gone wrong in only making billions of dollars in profit.

S.M.B.

As I was born in the early 80s I did not get to see the original run of the trilogy in the cinema. Since then I have gone to every movie on opening day/weekend. I rushed to see the special edition version of the OT during the 90s, the prequels, the latest trilogy & rogue one.

I have yet to see solo and won't for another week where I'll be going because my company are organising a social event around it.

I'm guessing there are many like me who just have less interest in seeing a spin off movie that Ron Howard came in to rescue 5 months after TLJ (which I absolutely loved). I'm not even that bothered about the "Ford = solo" angle.

Also, its competing with some real big movies at the moment, one of those released from the same studio.

So maybe it hasn't lived up to the lofty standards set by other Disney /SW movies.

Is this KKs fault? Disneys? Lucas'? Hollywood's? All of the above?

eeguy

S.M.B. wrote: »

Is this KKs fault? Disneys? Lucas'? Hollywood's? All of the above?

I'd say its general audience fatigue.

There's a half dozen sci-fi fantasy series on at the moment.
Between the glut of Marvel universe movies, X-men, Deadpool, the DC movies, Star Trek and all the OTHER Star Wars movies, I'd say people are less and less bothered about seeing a Star Wars spin off. I saw Force Awakens on release day. I saw Rogue One a few days after release. TLJ a few weeks after release. Can't be bothered with Solo really, although that's just me.

Frank O. Pinion

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And I'm out, typical of boards of late whenever something like Star Wars is discussed. Someone doesn't share your love of all things relating to the kids film Star Wars, then rather than discuss the topic like an adult just resort to veiled insults.

Wait, Star Wars is a kids film!? I don't think you've mentioned that...

Ipso

Internet fan boys also thought a movie about snakes on a plane would be good.

irishthump

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Meh, 2 seconds in and already I'm out. I have never understood this obsession people have with using random Youtube opinions in discussion. Why would I care enough about the opinion of some random guy to spend 15 minutes listening to him talk about Star Wars? Does he have startling insight into products that aren't widely discussed elsewhere? Or has he met a member of the cast in passing and know where Kennedy has gone wrong in only making billions of dollars in profit.

Ah good old Jumpcut Jeremy! I’m surprised you lasted 2 minutes...

irishthump

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Meh, 2 seconds in and already I'm out. I have never understood this obsession people have with using random Youtube opinions in discussion. Why would I care enough about the opinion of some random guy to spend 15 minutes listening to him talk about Star Wars? Does he have startling insight into products that aren't widely discussed elsewhere? Or has he met a member of the cast in passing and know where Kennedy has gone wrong in only making billions of dollars in profit.

Ah good old Jumpcut Jeremy! I’m surprised you lasted 2 minutes...

super_furry

Who is Jeremy Jahns and why should anyone care about what he thinks?

odyssey06

This whole 12 year old boys angle seems like a red herring to me. Solo isn't pulling in the 12 year olds, it isn't pulling in the 40 somethings who remember loving the originals when they were 12...

Any studio head should have questions asked if they fire director, reshoot the majority of a movie and then the box office for said movie is by far the lowest in the franchise... the only strange thing would be if it's just some random dude on Youtube asking these questions.

super_furry

Think it's Star Wars fatigue as much as anything else. Speaking as someone who would consider themselves a Star Wars fan, the whole premise of a Solo film never really appealed to me and I haven’t seen it yet.

He a smuggler in this, he’s a smuggler in Star Wars and he’s still a smuggler in The Force Awakens. I don’t really care about his arc there.

Show me the story of a more interesting character like Lando or better yet, tell a new story unrelated to what you've done before.

pixelburp

I think Darko has a point though when he made the devils advocate argument that Disney / Kennedy deserve some credit; they effectively recognised something wasn't working, a mistake was made and a pretty solid response taken to rectify & recover a lame duck production. At another studio the theatrical release would have been a hot mess. We've seen that countless times before

Sure, hiring Lord and Miller was itself a terrible decision, but rather than try to save the film with half assed reshoots & editing, they got Ron Howard, of all people, to basically save the film (even if I didn't think the final result was great, it could have been MUCH worse - Fantastic Four reboot worse for instance). Credit were its due, how many of us have the nerve to tear something up at the 11th hour and start again? I daresay most would just try to muddle through and hope for the best...

irishthump

irishthump wrote:

Ah good old Jumpcut Jeremy! I’m surprised you lasted 2 minutes...

2 seconds was what I lasted.

odyssey06 wrote:

Any studio head should have questions asked if they fire director, reshoot the majority of a movie and then the box office for said movie is by far the lowest in the franchise... the only strange thing would be if it's just some random dude on Youtube asking these questions.

I'm sure questions were asked but that was before Ron Howard was brought in. A good exec recognises an issue and them sorts it as happened here, a bad on just let's it fester and then dumps the film into cinemas and years later comes out with the old "it didn't work we know but we grew from it". A study exec is just a senior manager, they manage productions and people and a great strength of a manager is seeing an issue and sorting it.

Is Solo a bad film, not from anything I've seen. In fact the biggest issue many of the fans has, some of whom claim to not even have seen the film, is that Disney and Kennedy didn't lay out the red carpet and invite them to be involved.

Solo flopping is a misstep, nothing more and if we fired every studio head who made a mistake there would be no one left. Heel Kevin" the fan boys god" Feige was responsible for The Incredible Hulk a complete and utter flop that nearly detailed the entire Marvel universe, and yet the fans were baying for his blood.

odyssey06

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sure questions were asked but that was before Ron Howard was brought in. A good exec recognises an issue and them sorts it as happened here, a bad on just let's it fester and then dumps the film into cinemas and years later comes out with the old "it didn't work we know but we grew from it". A study exec is just a senior manager, they manage productions and people and a great strength of a manager is seeing an issue and sorting it.
Is Solo a bad film, not from anything I've seen. In fact the biggest issue many of the fans has, some of whom claim to not even have seen the film, is that Disney and Kennedy didn't lay out the red carpet and invite them to be involved.

True but it is a salvage job, one mis-step like this you can probably ride out but another one and both the franchise and head are in serious trouble.

I think Solo is an enjoyable movie but I can understand why it's not smashing it at the box office. It's not a must see movie. I can see it doing quite well on DVD as people who skipped it at the box office get around to checking it out.

I would love to see the vision of the original directors out of curiosity but am guessing that's unlikely.

S.M.B.

I also think that KK stepping down could be the worst thing to happen to SW right now, for my own selfish reasons anyway.

Maybe lucasfilm need to take a step back and realise that not everything they touch will turn to gold.

This movie isn't a financial disappointment because it isn't very good. It's struggling because not enough people want to see it. The reshoots will have a big effect on it's profitability but not its box office takings.

Hopefully this might stop them from churning out anthology stories along with a new trilogy just because they're considered to be guaranteed successes.

Greyfox

super_furry wrote: »

Who is Jeremy Jahns and why should anyone care about what he thinks?

Because his reviews are awesometacular, I absolutely love his reviews

Oafley Jones

Ipso wrote: »

Internet fan boys also thought a movie about snakes on a plane would be good.

No one thought Snakes on a Plane was a good idea. The movie got an awful lot of traction as a joke. Studio took this a genuine interest and delayed the movie to bump up the cheese factor. Movie came out and the world had moved on to laughing at something else. Lesson learned.

Relikk

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

There’s only been one truly great SW film, Empire.

Empire is my favourite SW movie, but ANH isn't far behind it. I'd say that it was also truly great.

jimmycrackcorm

TOss Sweep wrote:

Why would she step down? Other than Solo, The latest Star Wars movies have been the Top Grossing movies in the US since 2015

I accidentally went to see Solo. I hadn't heard it was coming out and I only ended up going because I was in the centre and just wanted to see what movies were on.

Even then I nearly didn't go because I thought it might be an animated movie and had to watch the trailer to make sure.

So I'm not surprised it hasn't done that well as there didn't seem to be any hype in comparison to the mainstream SW releases.

TerrorFirmer

Solo is a story that didn't need telling in the minds of most people. Some of those people still went to see it (like me) and while it's competent entertainment, the basic fact remains that you come out the other side feeling little richer in Star Wars lore for the experience. A lot of other peope knew that since the day it was announced and just had no interest.

I'd say it's a movie that will do very well on VOD/DVD/downloads. It's just an above average sci-fi adventure yarn, which falls quite short in the context of it being a Star Wars film (I feel the same about a number of MCU entries).

Calling on Kathleen Kennedy to step down is ridiculous, though I would argue they should have had the sense from Day 1 not to pursue this project as the enthusiasm just was never there to begin with, which to me makes it a tad more unforgivable than an original IP which fails to attact the numbers that were projected.

As for the whole "they're made for kids" argument, it's pretty redundant in general. Every Star Wars film is aimed at a broad audience and has strong elements for the youngest to the oldest audience members.

TLJ (and I liked it) was the first film in the franchise that had such a polarizing tone. Force Awakens, Rogue One and Solo are very faithful to the OT in that sense. So this whole "40 year old men crying because they never grew up or can't grasp that they are made for a new generation of kids" is a bit of a strawman really.

I think most of the issues within the fan community are with creative decisions on The Last Jedi, even those who liked it. While I consider it pretty redundant I don't have much issue with Solo, I thought Force Awakens was solid but lazy and uninspired, Rogue One was good, but The Last Jedi was marred with horrible creative decisions despite being an inherently excellent movie.

Harry Palmr

The whole point of a SW film was that is was supposed to be an EVENT not just another instalment in a never ending saga. Familiarity does breed contempt. The best thing to happen to James Bond commercially was a legal dispute that lasted 7 years.

Anyway the numbers are in $264.2 global turnover so it'll level off at about $320-340m

Greyfox

[Deleted User] wrote: »

grown men getting upset over a film made for 12 year olds... read posts from men in their 30s and 40s on forums complaining about a kids film not doing enough to appeal to them.

This post is absolute nonsense and disrespectful to SW fans. SW was NEVER made for kids and only a person seriously lacking in film knowledge could think such a thing, every star wars film was made to appeal to everyone, there full of adult themes, the marketing may aim at kids but that's different. Why would Disney spend 4 billion on a franchise if it intended to alienate it's core fanbase? Those adults complaining about TLJ complained about some silly choices that didn't exist in previous SW films. Empire still stands as one of the best films ever made because it appeals to adults and kids equally.

Wedwood

They are family movies, most with a 'general' certificate, one or two with a 'pg' cert. When somebody (usually over 35s) types 'they've ruined my childhood', or 'they're NOT just kids movies', your heading into Jack Nicholson Shining territory.

William Shatner was right when he famously told the other similar group of 'fans' who were melting his head with endless drivel- "GET A LIFE !!"

Brief_Lives

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Snake Plisken wrote: »

So with the poor box office on Solo the many production issues and firings on some of the movies more and more prominent people are starting to call for her to step down, this guy John Campia who is buddy’s with Mark Hamill’s son and gets to go to all the premiers has made a video calling for her to step down and also Collider put out a video about it also l. So should she go? I think she should!

Yeah I doubt she's too worried mate.

"A fourth wall break inside a fourth wall break? That's like... sixteen walls!"

Greyfox

Greyfox wrote:

This post is absolute nonsense and disrespectful to SW fans. SW was NEVER made for kids and only a person seriously lacking in film knowledge could think such a thing, every star wars film was made to appeal to everyone, there full of adult themes, the marketing may aim at kids but that's different. Why would Disney spend 4 billion on a franchise if it intended to alienate it's core fanbase? Those adults complaining about TLJ complained about some silly choices that didn't exist in previous SW films. Empire still stands as one of the best films ever made because it appeals to adults and kids equally.

George Lucas himself has gone on record to say that Star Wars are films for 12 year olds. When Star Wars came out it was a hit because kids flocked to see, it wasn't adults that made it a cultural zeitgeist.

A kids film can have wide appeal, Pixar do it magnificently but no matter how you state it, Star Wars was a series of films aimed at kids.

Why would Disney spend billions on Star Wars, simply because they know that it has a fan base of fevered 40 year olds who think they own the series. That and the fact that Star Wars merchandise has historically been an absolute gold mine sales from which far dwarf the actual box office of the films.

TerrorFirmer

Wedwood wrote: »

They are family movies, most with a 'general' certificate, one or two with a 'pg' cert. When somebody (usually over 35s) types 'they've ruined my childhood', or 'they're NOT just kids movies', your heading into Jack Nicholson Shining territory.

The last 5 or 6 movies have been rated 12's.

I look at Star Wars the way I look at the likes of Indiana Jones, another adventure franchise aimed at kids and families in the same vein.

Still great movies through whatever prism you look at them, though, and certainly not 'just' kids movies.

Greyfox

[Deleted User] wrote: »

40 year olds who think they own the series.

It's not that they think they own the series it's the fact that the Disney have an obligation to respect the source material and if fans feel Disney failed to do this they have every right to complain and it's very clear that TLJ did a number of things differently.

Sad Professor

Greyfox wrote: »

It's not that they think they own the series it's the fact that the Disney have an obligation to respect the source material and if fans feel Disney failed to do this they have every right to complain and it's very clear that TLJ did a number of things differently.

SW fans are not a monolithic group who all think the same thing, which is why I think this is very much a conflict over cultural ownership. Older vs younger fans is one part of that conflict. A lot of the older fans don't think the younger fans count. I don't see how else to explain these videos in which grown-up guys parade their SW toys in front of the camera and talk about how the latest film ruined or restored their childhood, etc. But even amongst older fans, the majority of them seem to like or love most of the new films. We're mostly talking about a very vocal online sub-culture who lurk in Youtube comment sections. That doesn't mean they are wrong. Maybe, as they suggest, time will prove them correct, but they certainly don't speak for all SW fans as it currently stands.

Agent Coulson

It hasn't broken even yet after 10 days of release that say something huge to me and hopefully Disney.

Greyfox

Greyfox wrote:

It's not that they think they own the series it's the fact that the Disney have an obligation to respect the source material and if fans feel Disney failed to do this they have every right to complain and it's very clear that TLJ did a number of things differently.

No they don't, also what about TLJ disrespected the original films? Fans can complain all the want but the thing is that its just noise and has no impact.

I don't even like Star Wars all that much, I'll watch them sure but have no interest in going out of my way to see them but I recognise that the new films aren't for me but rather a new generation if kids.

As someone who grew up with the original films I don't think I have any ownership of them nor do I care that Disney are letting film makers do their own thing. In fact I applaud Disney for letting people like Rian Johnson tell hia own story and while I dislike TLJ I also respect it for now trying to be fan service for grown ass men.

Watching some 40 year old man cry onscreen in front of all his Star Wars dolls is not something I care to see. It's akin to listening to a metal fan cry about the group selling out when they sign a record deal.

It's funny how kids seem to be loving the new films and it's old men who aren't. Maybe a lot of Star Wars fans just need to grow up and realise that Star Wars is second rate cinema, they're B movies with a budget.

Arne_Saknussem

Sad Professor wrote: »

SW fans are not a monolithic group who all think the same thing, which is why I think this is very much a conflict over cultural ownership. Older vs younger fans is one part of that conflict. A lot of the older fans don't think the younger fans count. I don't see how else to explain these videos in which grown-up guys parade their SW toys in front of the camera and talk about how the latest film ruined or restored their childhood, etc. But even amongst older fans, the majority of them seem to like or love most of the new films. We're mostly talking about a very vocal online sub-culture who lurk in Youtube comment sections. That doesn't mean they are wrong. Maybe, as they suggest, time will prove them correct, but they certainly don't speak for all SW fans as it currently stands.

Interesting, the older fans i know almost to a man thought TLJ was an awful film. Rogue One had a more even split of like/dislike.

Most haven't seen Solo, the majority would say TLJ related.

Greyfox

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No they don't, also what about TLJ disrespected the original films? Fans can complain all the want but the thing is that its just noise and has no impact..
Star Wars is second rate cinema, they're B movies with a budget.

They do, the basic rule of continuing to use a brand nane is to respect what the name stands for, its like if you start to tell a story you set-out the rules of your story's world and you cant break these half way or it will break your story. when the LO rings tv series starts you can be certain the makers will be very careful not to p*ss off LOR fans.

TLJ made the once great Luke Skywalker a grumpy and pointless old man and threw the whole mythology and history of the Jedi out the window. They tried to throw in marvels humour and GOThrones complexity and both fell flat and made the tone of the film different as they didn't belong in a SW film. It will have an impact on future sw films.

The films also apeal to adults just like the marvel films, if a film has a weak story it's weak regardless of whether your a kid or an adult. The first 2 films are still wildly regarded as 2 of the best films ever made so your last point makes no sense. Grand if you don't love star wars but it will always be one of the most loved franchises it entertainment history.

Inviere

Greyfox wrote: »

TLJ made the once great Luke Skywalker a grumpy and pointless old man and threw the whole mythology and history of the Jedi out the window..

I really didn't get that impression watching it. In fact, I felt Luke's journey very much echoed Yoda's, as told in the oft hailed best of the SW films, Empire. I've yet to rewatch the film, so my opinion is coloured by seeing it on release...but I left the cinema very, very satisfied with what Disney had done with the story. I suppose though, as should always be the case, to each their own.

Greyfox

Greyfox wrote:

TLJ made the once great Luke Skywalker a grumpy and pointless old man and threw the whole mythology and history of the Jedi out the window. They tried to throw in marvels humour and GOThrones complexity and both fell flat and made the tone of the film different as they didn't belong in a SW film. It will have an impact on future sw films.

Greyfox wrote:

They do, the basic rule of continuing to use a brand nane is to respect what the name stands for, its like if you start to tell a story you set-out the rules of your story's world and you cant break these half way or it will break your story. when the LO rings tv series starts you can be certain the makers will be very careful not to p*ss off LOR fans.

There are no rules, it's like all those saddos who cried that you can't have female Ghostbusters. Luke's progression made perfect sense, it may not be what some man children wanted but tonally it fit in with where the series went. As for saying they messed with the tone , SW always had humor and who cares if they changed the Jedi. It upsets some sad YouTubers but most liked the newer films.

As for the LoTR series, well I hope it deviates from the book and film. There's nothing more boring than a slavishly loyal adaptation.

Greyfox wrote:

The films also apeal to adults just like the marvel films, if a film has a weak story it's weak regardless of whether your a kid or an adult. The first 2 films are still wildly regarded as 2 of the best films ever made so your last point makes no sense. Grand if you don't love star wars but it will always be one of the most loved franchises it entertainment history.

They are not considered among the best, well unless you take Empire magazine lists seriously.

It's a beloved franchise but that doesn't mean that it's a good one, after all at this stage there are more bad SW films than good ones and even the first one is little more than a shoddy knock off of a dozen others.

Arne_Saknussem

If you liked it are you excluded from being a 'man child'?

Is it only if you think it's bad storytelling ?

I'm not sure how your rules work

Greyfox

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are no rules, it's like all those saddos who cried that you can't have female Ghostbusters. Luke's progression made perfect sense, it may not be what some man children wanted but tonally it fit in with where the series went. As for saying they messed with the tone , SW always had humor and who cares if they changed the Jedi. It upsets some sad YouTubers but most liked the newer films.

They are not considered among the best, well unless you take Empire magazine lists seriously.

It's a beloved franchise but that doesn't mean that it's a good one, after all at this stage there are more bad SW films than good ones and even the first one is little more than a shoddy knock off of a dozen others.

Ghostbusters was a remake though, SW is continuing the story with some of the same characters. Guess i just disagree with Luke, thought his progression went nowhere. Its a film made for sci/fi and action fans and if you paid to see the film your entitled to have an opinion on it. people have invested emotion in the franchise and are allowed to express there disappointment, nobody's forcing you to look at YouTube videos. The humour is very out of place and unfunny, it's funny in the original trilogy. sw fans care as there the centre of the sw universe, everything the Jedi were about is now muddled and unclear.

It's not just empire, in almost every best films ever list the first 2 feature high in it. Of course it's a good franchise, it's part of film history, the first is still a masterpiece. There's WAY more good ones, for me 5 are excellent films and the rest are worth watching twice.

Bowlardo

I think she should step down.
I liked solo it was a solid film . Some very **** bits but overall decent entertainment.
If she is still around for episode 9 there it will be some horror show. To be honest I think it will be anyway. There is no way you can the **** storm around the was TLJ . It was absolute pure and utter dog ****.

conorhal

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

To be fair, some guy who knows Mark Hamill’s son said they should. Financial success, critical acclaim and generally positive audience reception (by standard industry metrics) are secondary considerations.

Solo is a flop that will be lucky to make it's bank back. A flop in and ever downward trajectory for a property that sells itself. That's not financial success, it's frankly mismanagement.

Making one movie for the price of two and losing money into the bargain is ample reason for Kennedy to lose her job, the fact that this is the second time in 4 movies she's managed to do this is even more reason. Never mind poisoning the well of the fanbase.

Disney has themeparks to open, she'll be gone before they do because that more than anything matters to Disney.

conorhal

pixelburp wrote: »

I think Darko has a point though when he made the devils advocate argument that Disney / Kennedy deserve some credit; they effectively recognised something wasn't working, a mistake was made and a pretty solid response taken to rectify & recover a lame duck production. At another studio the theatrical release would have been a hot mess. We've seen that countless times before

Sure, hiring Lord and Miller was itself a terrible decision, but rather than try to save the film with half assed reshoots & editing, they got Ron Howard, of all people, to basically save the film (even if I didn't think the final result was great, it could have been MUCH worse - Fantastic Four reboot worse for instance). Credit were its due, how many of us have the nerve to tear something up at the 11th hour and start again? I daresay most would just try to muddle through and hope for the best...

If you crash a friends car into a tree but happen to be a mechanic that reckons you can at least make it road worthy again you hardly deserve a pat on the back.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, they appeal to older cinema-goers too but Lucas made a film for 12-year-old boys, not for their 40 year old dads.

So all the bland political stuff about trade negotiations in the prequels were aimed at 12 year olds? Didn’t know that was a typical interest of children.

pixelburp

conorhal wrote: »

If you crash a friends car into a tree but happen to be a mechanic that reckons you can at least make it road worthy again you hardly deserve a pat on the back.

That analogy hardly tracks, and given we're talking about managerial decisions (albeit from an executive level), they're easily relatable back to more everyday large, managed projects you might work on in an office.

Hell I've read countless articles about crisis management when working on projects (I work in software development) - particularly when it's clear a feature / product is irredeemably broken. The consensus tends to lean towards: don't be afraid to junk all that good work and start again. That in the long run it's a better decision than trying to patch up a bad build and hoping for the best.

The instinct is to try and make the completed material work, but as mentioned it's not like Hollywood doesn't have ample examples of this kind of behaviour backfiring, with the previous case of the Fantastic Four reboot by Josh Trank particularly apt. Trank was a total disaster yet rather than accepting a bad decision made in good faith (same with Lord & Miller during the production of Solo), the studio stubbornly moved on, made shoddy reshoots and the result was still a disaster.

FunLover18

Greyfox wrote: »

It's not that they think they own the series it's the fact that the Disney have an obligation to respect the source material and if fans feel Disney failed to do this they have every right to complain and it's very clear that TLJ did a number of things differently.

I'm reminded of Neil Gaiman's blog directed at the GoT fan complaining about the lack of progress on the next book; "George RR Martin is not your bitch".

Disney don't owe you anything, they don't owe the fans anything. There is always an element of Goodwill between Creator and fan but there is no contract and if a "fan" suddenly decides they don't like the output then tough. Cherish the original content you liked and move on. You can complain and whinge ask for people to step down but Disney or any Creator is under no obligation to listen and won't as long as they continue to make money.

Also, in a general aside, if you are going to complain and moan, do it respectfully. Kelly Marie Tran who played Rose in TLJ has recently quit Instagram due to harassment from supposed SW fans. Some of the stuff that people justify with fandom is shameful.

SimonTemplar

FunLover18 wrote: »

Also, in a general aside, if you are going to complain and moan, do it respectfully. Kelly Marie Tran who played Rose in TLJ has recently quit Instagram due to harassment from supposed SW fans. Some of the stuff that people justify with fandom is shameful.

I agree entirely. I was watching a few review / analysis videos on Youtube about The Last Jedi from channels I regularly visit. I noticed another one on my recommended list from someone I didn't know so I decided to give it a shot. Within a few moments, he was complaining about the "fat Asian b*tch" as he put it.

I have a lot of issues with the Finn/Rose subplot but Kelly Marie Tran isn't one of them. I thought she did a pretty good job with the material she was given. The writing is the real issue. That kind of sexist racist crap has no place in any fandom.

Inviere

FunLover18 wrote: »

Kelly Marie Tran who played Rose in TLJ has recently quit Instagram due to harassment from supposed SW fans.

Dreadful carry on. What a toxic fanbase Star Wars has at times.

johnny_ultimate

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I thought she did a pretty good job with the material she was given.

While it took me a second viewing for some of my thoughts on TLJ to really settle, that wasn't necessary with Tran's performance. Of all the newbies... outside Adam Driver's obviously more complex performance... she's the strongest of the bunch. She brought an incredible amount of enthusiasm and energy to the film that really suited the tone of the material. An extremely welcome addition.

As for the social media trolls, bullies and bigots - who I can only hope and assume are a loud, irritating minority among those who disliked the film - I hope Star Wars continues to be a source of misery for them, because they deserve nothing less