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Sexual attacks and harassemnt in Limerick
Comments
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Cookiemunster wrote: »Well if they've a big banner stating that the deem the statistics not to be 100% reliable, then obviously they do publish things that could be wildly wrong.
So what you are saying is that the CSO is starting some kind of rumour campaign making wildly wrong statements about criminality in Ireland that may be discriminatory from the regional point of view.0 -
And why would the CSO do such a thing?
EDIT:
And in the article above they are talking about unreported homicide figures not sexual crimes and more importantly delaying publishing figures, it kind of looks like they are saying those figures are incomplete but that if you wait long enough they would kind of be complete0 -
So what you are saying is that the CSO is starting some kind of rumour campaign making wildly wrong statements about criminality in Ireland that may be discriminatory from the regional point of view.
No I'm quite obviously stating that the CSO have put statistics on their site with a disclaimer that they may not be accurate. No rumours there, just fact.0 -
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Cookiemunster wrote: »Maybe you might try asking the CSO.
I could tell you the same you seem to have more issues with their statistics than me.
I'm of the opinion that they are going to be 90% okay, you seem to believe that there's more difference than that and those statistics should be completely dismissed.
It looks to me that the one with bigger issues with the CSO is you not me. I consider them to be 90% accurate and the mistake to be equally distribute around Ireland.
Do you have any reason to believe that could be incorrect and there is some kind of regional discrimination in the reporting done by the Garda?
Like figures to be wildly wrong for Limerick and not just an issue of classification of homicides in the wrong category as per the article you have postedIt emerged at the meeting that 41 homicides between 2013 and 2015 were reviewed because Garda analysts found some form of classification issue with them. Some murders committed in a domestic setting were classified as non-fatal offences against the person.The 89 homicides that were not counted in the homicide data occurred between 2003 and May 2017. All of them were cases of dangerous driving causing death.
I cannot find anything in the article about huge discrepancies between regions or anything mentioning issues with regions in Ireland.
Open to know more about it if you know. Do please add it.
To be honest with you, it looks to me that they have concerns, the data they have is sufficiently good to be published (otherwise as they have done other times they would have not published it) and they have the warning that is not 100% good but is good enough as they have published it. It has to be very close to 100% because in previous occasions they didn't even publish it.
Considering the level of population in Dublin the reality is that the discrepancies between Limerick and the rest of the country have been for decades beyond belief. And as I said before things have changed in recent years (I still fondly remember the army patrolling the streets for a few days I think it was in 2003, and it wasn't a parade) but it's still tragic. And people denying the issue is not helping at all.
This is just the tragic reality0 -
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You've seriously gone down a rabbit hole. You claimed that the statistics were 100% accurate. I pointed out that the CSO themselves have stated that there is a doubt to their veracity. I've gone no further than that.
As to the article I pointed out that it was one of many easily googled about the CSO's issues with Garda statistics. I'd suggest you do that, seeing as it was you who asked why the CSO had issues with those stats.
And as for fondly remembering the army on the streets? You're dreaming there mate.0 -
A government body wouldn't publish something that they think it's wildly wrong. Otherwise they would be spreading rumours. They have to be sufficiently good for them to publish
I honestly don't know about the standards the CSO have but if they are publishing them they have to be very close to those standards it makes no sense they are publishing something that is very far away from reality.
It would be very worrying to actually know that they are actually publishing something that is very far away from reality. Are they trying to distort public perception of certain parts of Ireland? Some kind of regional discrimination?
Now the second question is why the reporting does not meet the standards for the CSO. Are the garda not providing that information? Is the information they provide incomplete? Why the CSO cannot find adequate information in Ireland regarding these issues that complies with their strict guidelines?
Mate, not trying to be funny here, but you've dug a hole for yourself...stop digging.
There is obviously a deeply flawed culture within an Garda Siochana when it comes to producing stats, with some regions worse than others, it is that simple.
You and people just like you are just as deluded as the people who deny the existence of any crime...0 -
The only question mark in relation to the CSO statistics is in relation to Homicide offenses nationally.Cookiemunster wrote: »You've seriously gone down a rabbit hole. You claimed that the statistics were 100% accurate. I pointed out that the CSO themselves have stated that there is a doubt to their veracity. I've gone no further than that.
As to the article I pointed out that it was one of many easily googled about the CSO's issues with Garda statistics. I'd suggest you do that, seeing as it was you who asked why the CSO had issues with those stats.
And as for fondly remembering the army on the streets? You're dreaming there mate.
It really doesn't affect regional comparisons in any way. Bit of a silly discussion really since the OP was a bit ott anyway.0 -
All he did in fairness was put up the CSO stats. The Homicide stats nationally are the stats that are subject to questions and not any other category of crime. Never heard that Gardai in Limerick are inflating their crime stats, seriously that seems a bit far fetched even more so than the original post in this thread!Silentcorner wrote: »Mate, not trying to be funny here, but you've dug a hole for yourself...stop digging.
There is obviously a deeply flawed culture within an Garda Siochana when it comes to producing stats, with some regions worse than others, it is that simple.
You and people just like you are just as deluded as the people who deny the existence of any crime...0 -
All he did in fairness was put up the CSO stats. The Homicide stats nationally are the stats that are subject to questions and not any other category of crime. Never heard that Gardai in Limerick are inflating their crime stats, seriously that seems a bit far fetched even more so than the original post in this thread!
What about the million and a half fake breathalyser tests? We have no way of knowing if any other stats are inaccurate, but we can take the word of the CSO who have taken the highly unusual step of issuing a warning about their accuracy...the accuracy of our National Crime Stats are a huge problem, it is a much bigger problem than Limericks perceived crime issues...
The poster I quoted is ignoring that warning and claiming some of us are in denial...0 -
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Silentcorner wrote: »Mate, not trying to be funny here, but you've dug a hole for yourself...stop digging.
There is obviously a deeply flawed culture within an Garda Siochana when it comes to producing stats, with some regions worse than others, it is that simple.
You and people just like you are just as deluded as the people who deny the existence of any crime...
Okay lets say for argument sake there is a flawed culture in Garda Siochana, if that is true it would affect the overall country, so me comparing Limerick with Dublin and not London would be comparing like with like and we are in a situation were the figures can be used to compare statistics within the country.
Otherwise we have a different scenario: the manipulation of figures is something that only affects Limerick and there is some kind of campaign by the Garda, CSO, newspapers, etc to distort the public image of Limerick and the region in general. Do you have any facts to say that indeed there is a campaign by the rest of the country to actually distort the image of Limerick and Limerick only? The army coming down in 2003 never happened, and the several times the Rapid Response Unit has been brought down has also never happened, etc
I never stated the figures by the CSO were 100%. Someone else brought them to the thread, I used relative percentages to compare them with other cities in Ireland and that is what has created the debate, the sudden realisation that the situation in Limerick is not what it looks. That's what you don't like and it's not helping. As I said before the situation over the years has changed and improved but is not as clean and pretty as they may want you to believe. If you don't like it, that's okay but denying the problem doesn't solve it and it's there and will continue to be there.
The figures may be flawed but the most likely scenario is that they are 90% correct. When the CSO has had previously major concerns about them they didn't even published them. Use them to compare within the country is fairly accurate
So when they have published them it's because they have reasonable assurance about them, they are including a warning. And it's also reasonable to believe that the error, misclassification occurs all around the country in the same way. The article indicates that it's an incorrect classification problem not flat out manipulation. There is nothing in the article about the issue of breathalyser test or that things like that are affecting the figures. As far as I know that issue should have been corrected on those statistics. And in any case my original comparative was about sexual crimes not homicides or breathalysers.
Basically what you are just saying is that you don't like what you are reading, poor Limerick is mistreated and discriminated by the rest of the country and I'm wrong. Burying your head under the sand it's not going to change the fact that there is a problem, and in fact more than likely is going to make the problem worse
I also said that the girl might be trying to get some clickbait with those statements but without reading in detail through her Instagram I could not be sure.
We are at stage that you don't like the comparative, the whole thing might become personal and not a proper debate and I have completely lost all my interest in the thread as it's effectively proving some of the points raised. Denying the situation is not going to change it or solve it. But it says a lot about why things happen and they continue happening over and over again, and it's a great example for others to follow which adds more fuel to the fire in this forum and outside this forum.
A last thought lets all remember what Mr Trump is accomplishing with that attitude in America, denying things that he doesn't like, flat out lying, manipulating and how that wonderful example is being replicated in the streets with wonderful results.
I don't have a good opinion of the garda but I genuinely don't believe they or anyone else is systematically and specifically targeting Limerick and the region and if there are mistakes they spread equally all around the country0 -
All he did in fairness was put up the CSO stats. The Homicide stats nationally are the stats that are subject to questions and not any other category of crime. Never heard that Gardai in Limerick are inflating their crime stats, seriously that seems a bit far fetched even more so than the original post in this thread!
Weren't they reclassifying homicide statistics. And if they under/over represented one crime there would be a knock on effect on the other crime, either under or over represented.
And if they did that with the homicide figures how can you trust the other info they submit? Take another example, the auld breathalyser tests.
Seriously, now that I've your attention, I've got this bridge going cheap.0 -
Okay lets say for argument sake there is a flawed culture in Garda Siochana, if that is true it would affect the overall country, so me comparing Limerick with Dublin and not London would be comparing like with like and we are in a situation were the figures can be used to compare statistics within the country.
Otherwise we have a different scenario: the manipulation of figures is something that only affects Limerick and there is some kind of campaign by the Garda, CSO, newspapers, etc to distort the public image of Limerick and the region in general. Do you have any facts to say that indeed there is a campaign by the rest of the country to actually distort the image of Limerick and Limerick only? The army coming down in 2003 never happened, and the several times the Rapid Response Unit has been brought down has also never happened, etc
I never stated the figures by the CSO were 100%. Someone else brought them to the thread, I used relative percentages to compare them with other cities in Ireland and that is what has created the debate, the sudden realisation that the situation in Limerick is not what it looks. That's what you don't like and it's not helping. As I said before the situation over the years has changed and improved but is not as clean and pretty as they may want you to believe. If you don't like it, that's okay but denying the problem doesn't solve it and it's there and will continue to be there.
The figures may be flawed but the most likely scenario is that they are 90% correct. When the CSO has had previously major concerns about them they didn't even published them. Use them to compare within the country is fairly accurate
So when they have published them it's because they have reasonable assurance about them, they are including a warning. And it's also reasonable to believe that the error, misclassification occurs all around the country in the same way. The article indicates that it's an incorrect classification problem not flat out manipulation. There is nothing in the article about the issue of breathalyser test or that things like that are affecting the figures. As far as I know that issue should have been corrected on those statistics. And in any case my original comparative was about sexual crimes not homicides or breathalysers.
Basically what you are just saying is that you don't like what you are reading, poor Limerick is mistreated and discriminated by the rest of the country and I'm wrong. Burying your head under the sand it's not going to change the fact that there is a problem, and in fact more than likely is going to make the problem worse
I also said that the girl might be trying to get some clickbait with those statements but without reading in detail through her Instagram I could not be sure.
We are at stage that you don't like the comparative, the whole thing might become personal and not a proper debate and I have completely lost all my interest in the thread as it's effectively proving some of the points raised. Denying the situation is not going to change it or solve it. But it says a lot about why things happen and they continue happening over and over again, and it's a great example for others to follow which adds more fuel to the fire in this forum and outside this forum.
A last thought lets all remember what Mr Trump is accomplishing with that attitude in America, denying things that he doesn't like, flat out lying, manipulating and how that wonderful example is being replicated in the streets with wonderful results.
I don't have a good opinion of the garda but I genuinely don't believe they or anyone else is systematically and specifically targeting Limerick and the region and if there are mistakes they spread equally all around the country
By your own twisted use of populations and stats Galway has a far greater crime problem than Dublin...
Stick to your colouring books mate...0 -
Okay lets say for argument sake there is a flawed culture in Garda Siochana, if that is true it would affect the overall country, so me comparing Limerick with Dublin and not London would be comparing like with like and we are in a situation were the figures can be used to compare statistics within the country.
Otherwise we have a different scenario: the manipulation of figures is something that only affects Limerick and there is some kind of campaign by the Garda, CSO, newspapers, etc to distort the public image of Limerick and the region in general. Do you have any facts to say that indeed there is a campaign by the rest of the country to actually distort the image of Limerick and Limerick only? The army coming down in 2003 never happened, and the several times the Rapid Response Unit has been brought down has also never happened, etc
I never stated the figures by the CSO were 100%. Someone else brought them to the thread, I used relative percentages to compare them with other cities in Ireland and that is what has created the debate, the sudden realisation that the situation in Limerick is not what it looks. That's what you don't like and it's not helping. As I said before the situation over the years has changed and improved but is not as clean and pretty as they may want you to believe. If you don't like it, that's okay but denying the problem doesn't solve it and it's there and will continue to be there.
The figures may be flawed but the most likely scenario is that they are 90% correct. When the CSO has had previously major concerns about them they didn't even published them. Use them to compare within the country is fairly accurate
So when they have published them it's because they have reasonable assurance about them, they are including a warning. And it's also reasonable to believe that the error, misclassification occurs all around the country in the same way. The article indicates that it's an incorrect classification problem not flat out manipulation. There is nothing in the article about the issue of breathalyser test or that things like that are affecting the figures. As far as I know that issue should have been corrected on those statistics. And in any case my original comparative was about sexual crimes not homicides or breathalysers.
Basically what you are just saying is that you don't like what you are reading, poor Limerick is mistreated and discriminated by the rest of the country and I'm wrong. Burying your head under the sand it's not going to change the fact that there is a problem, and in fact more than likely is going to make the problem worse
I also said that the girl might be trying to get some clickbait with those statements but without reading in detail through her Instagram I could not be sure.
We are at stage that you don't like the comparative, the whole thing might become personal and not a proper debate and I have completely lost all my interest in the thread as it's effectively proving some of the points raised. Denying the situation is not going to change it or solve it. But it says a lot about why things happen and they continue happening over and over again, and it's a great example for others to follow which adds more fuel to the fire in this forum and outside this forum.
A last thought lets all remember what Mr Trump is accomplishing with that attitude in America, denying things that he doesn't like, flat out lying, manipulating and how that wonderful example is being replicated in the streets with wonderful results.
I don't have a good opinion of the garda but I genuinely don't believe they or anyone else is systematically and specifically targeting Limerick and the region and if there are mistakes they spread equally all around the country
Does Limerick not have a higher traveller population than other cities relative to population? , not PC but would explain the higher rate0 -
Give us your figures and don't be speculating.0
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If you had done a little research you would have discovered that Galway City has three and a half times the percentage of travellers that Limerick City has.0
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If you had done a little research you would have discovered that Galway City has three and a half times the percentage of travellers that Limerick City has.
The county of Galway undoubtedly has a much larger traveller population but that's due to the huge number in tuam and ballinasloe, the city itself would have less travellers than Limerick city by a distance, I mean isn't St Mary's Park nearly all settled travellers?0 -
I never mentioned Galway county. Galway CITY has three and a half times the percentage of travellers that Limerick city has. And St. Marys park is comprised of virtually all indigenous city families. Why don't you deal with facts not hearsay.0
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I never mentioned Galway county. Galway CITY has three and a half times the percentage of travellers that Limerick city has. And St. Marys park is comprised of virtually all indigenous city families. Why don't you deal with facts not hearsay.
I wasn't attacking Limerick, I like the place and my wife is from there, was just posing a question0 -
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Fair enough, I accept that. My concern is more with the regular disinformation thats out there about limerick and incidentally I am a clareman who uses and likes the city. Part of the problem imo is that people from the more affluent areas of the city are very quick to put the boot into the poorer areas, quicker than many outsiders in fact. It's as if they want to distance themselves from the city's problems. I don't like to malign a historic area like St. Marys park where many of the city's previously employed dockers, coal merchants, bacon factories workers etc ended up with no jobs after the demise of the old industries. They were left there neglected allowing thugs take over the community . But originally most were decent families. Rant over on to Thurles0
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Fair enough, I accept that. My concern is more with the regular disinformation thats out there about limerick and incidentally I am a clareman who uses and likes the city. Part of the problem imo is that people from the more affluent areas of the city are very quick to put the boot into the poorer areas, quicker than many outsiders in fact. It's as if they want to distance themselves from the city's problems. I don't like to malign a historic area like St. Marys park where many of the city's previously employed dockers, coal merchants, bacon factories workers etc ended up with no jobs after the demise of the old industries. They were left there neglected allowing thugs take over the community . But originally most were decent families. Rant over on to Thurles
Something I've really noticed since moving to Limerick is that Limerick people seem to think everywhere bar the street they live on themselves is a warzone.0
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