Ryanair delays Summmer 18

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Minister wrote:

No update on Pprune thread of 'Ryanair cancelling flights' for quite sometime. So, when do people think FR difficulties will make media headlines?

When the strikes are announced the media will start to dig.

lfc200

superg wrote: »

On a flight to Fuertaventura this morning from Dublin. Push back happened on time at 7.40. We are still sitting here though. Large queue of aircraft in front of us. I can see 4 Aer lingus, 2 Ryanair and an Ethiopian

Not sure how that is anything to do with Ryanair though? Normal morning traffic ex. Dub

Xpro

Dublin Airport is generally very slow to move traffic especially at peak times, and especially if the runway 10 is in use, forget about it, almost 40min delays just to get to holding point.

Things like that dont help, and to be quite honest I dont think the delays have anything to do with Ryanair.

The airspace is massively congested, combined with ATC strikes, recent WX and inefficient ATC, all taken in consideration, its pretty much impacting every other airline thats currently out there. But hey, general public doesnt know that.

L1011

Xpro wrote: »

Dublin Airport is generally very slow to move traffic especially at peak times, and especially if the runway 10 is in use, forget about it, almost 40min delays just to get to holding point.

Things like that dont help, and to be quite honest I dont think the delays have anything to do with Ryanair.

The airspace is massively congested, combined with ATC strikes, recent WX and inefficient ATC, all taken in consideration, its pretty much impacting every other airline thats currently out there. But hey, general public doesnt know that.

Ryanair have a severe staffing issue on top of all the seasonal and strike delays - they are cancelling and delaying more flights than anyone else

Cookiemunster

L1011 wrote: »

Ryanair have a severe staffing issue on top of all the seasonal and strike delays - they are cancelling and delaying more flights than anyone else

Just playing devils advocate here, but aren't they bigger than everyone else? So would be affected more than others?

L1011

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Just playing devils advocate here, but aren't they bigger than everyone else? So would be affected more than others?

Doesn't work that way.

They are worse than everyone else put together at most airports. It is entirely staffing, not external issues

California Dreamer

Shortage of engineers too?

https://m.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/ryanair-passengers-delayed-by-10-hours-as-no-engineer-to-change-tyre-on-plane-37011509.html

marno21

California Dreamer wrote: »

Shortage of engineers too?

https://m.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/ryanair-passengers-delayed-by-10-hours-as-no-engineer-to-change-tyre-on-plane-37011509.html

Engineers flew from STN to LGW (and had to hold), but were in LGW for 4 hours before returning to STN:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/m-abja#11b11043

Xpro

Xpro wrote: »

Dublin Airport is generally very slow to move traffic especially at peak times, and especially if the runway 10 is in use, forget about it, almost 40min delays just to get to holding point.

Things like that dont help, and to be quite honest I dont think the delays have anything to do with Ryanair.

The airspace is massively congested, combined with ATC strikes, recent WX and inefficient ATC, all taken in consideration, its pretty much impacting every other airline thats currently out there. But hey, general public doesnt know that.

How do you mean very slow and inefficient ?

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Deleted User wrote:

How do you mean very slow and inefficient ?

Think he might be referring to separation distances between traffic arriving and departing.

Can be frustrating for the pilots especially if they're used to operating into the likes of Gatwick.

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View Profile wrote: »

Think he might be referring to separation distances between traffic arriving and departing.

Can be frustrating for the pilots especially if they're used to operating into the likes of Gatwick.

What’s the difference between the separations being used ?

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Don't know the statistical figures but let's just stay in Gatwick they manage to process many more aircraft in a given period than Dublin can.
Their controllers are excellent.

billie1b

View Profile wrote: »

Don't know the statistical figures but let's just stay in Gatwick they manage to process many more aircraft in a given period than Dublin can.
Their controllers are excellent.

Supposedly on a normal day LGW handle 55 movements per hour and even more at peak times, DUB handle on average 47 at peak times and less if it’s RWY10. A lot of pilots hate coming/operating out of DUB due to controllers inefficiency

billie1b

billie1b wrote: »

Supposedly on a normal day LGW handle 55 movements per hour and even more at peak times, DUB handle on average 47 at peak times and less if it’s RWY10. A lot of pilots hate coming/operating out of DUB due to controllers inefficiency

I put the figures up on the infrastructure thread, it’s 48.4 per hour in Dublin and Gatwick does 55 for max three hours and the rest of the day it’s 50. So not that far off considering the massive difference in runway infrastructure (holding bays, lineup points and RETs).

They are official figures both produced by NATs.

Jamie2k9

billie1b wrote: »

Supposedly on a normal day LGW handle 55 movements per hour and even more at peak times, DUB handle on average 47 at peak times and less if it’s RWY10. A lot of pilots hate coming/operating out of DUB due to controllers inefficiency

Clipping wings didn't make the issues any better!

Still LGW cannot be compared like for like because a longer runway allows closer ops.

http://www.aviationreg.ie/_fileupload/Helios%20capacity%20assessment%20workstream%202/P2410D008_Final_Report_v1_5_1%20(clean).pdf

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP1516%20Gatwick%20delay%20causation%20study%20-%20Final%20report%20v06_ISSUED.pdf

So you don't think I'm making it up.

What I can gather from the Helios report is that in fairness to ATC they are operating to the tools provided to them by the DAA and IAA (page 84-85 in particular). Very worthy of note is the following quote by Helios

While aircraft separations and arrival runway occupancy times can be influenced by the
IAA (reduced separations) and daa (construction of new RET), there are no easy tools for
reduction of departure runway occupancy times, as these are largely dependent on
individual airline procedures, pilot training, their discipline and reaction time.

Yet again proving aviation is a team affair, sometimes when you are pointing the finger at others to blame, sometimes you need to first look at what I can do better to help.

trellheim

Quoting that same report with regard to departure separation

The current separation applied of 84
seconds could be further decreased (subject to approval by the Safety Regulator) to help
improve runway throughput, especially during the first morning wave

so its definitely something that could be looked at.

billie1b

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I put the figures up on the infrastructure thread, it’s 48.4 per hour in Dublin and Gatwick does 55 for max three hours and the rest of the day it’s 50. So not that far off considering the massive difference in runway infrastructure (holding bays, lineup points and RETs).

They are official figures both produced by NATs.

I’m nearly sure it’s 55 up to 7 hours a day now, the 3 hours was back in 2016, could be wrong though.
In response to Donkey2k9 there, every airport has incidents/accidents, a rare case of wings clipping isn’t always down to controllers and that shouldn’t be used as the blame being apportioned to their inefficiency at DUB. The controllers in DUB are terrible at the most off peak times of the day, when it’s at peak times DUB is a disaster due to them. Saying that though, DUB has some fabulous controllers that we deal with, so I can’t say it’s all of them, just the majority.

Jamie2k9

billie1b wrote: »

I’m nearly sure it’s 55 up to 7 hours a day now, the 3 hours was back in 2016, could be wrong though.
In response to Donkey2k9 there, every airport has incidents/accidents, a rare case of wings clipping isn’t always down to controllers and that shouldn’t be used as the blame being apportioned to their inefficiency at DUB. The controllers in DUB are terrible at the most off peak times of the day, when it’s at peak times DUB is a disaster due to them. Saying that though, DUB has some fabulous controllers that we deal with, so I can’t say it’s all of them, just the majority.

What part of my post blamed controllers. The incidents themselves and subsequent restrictions put in place haven't helped at peak hour ops.

Controllers do a good job with what they have but with everything you can always look to improve/innovate to make things better.

NH2013

It's the restrictions placed on the controllers by the IAA that cause the issues, in particular the spacing applied to RWY 10 is unneccessary, 7 mile spacing on finals to get an aircraft away in the gap,where most other airports operate with 5nm spacing, that's a 40% increase in the spacing, and the runway could definitely cope with 5nm spacing with the occasional go-around.

The Go around procedures are also not exactly designed for tight separation, there should be an immediate left or right climbing turn for the go-arounds to provide for separation with departing traffic, as opposed to the standard Irish missed approach of straight ahead to 3,000'. Would allow for tighter spacing and take care of the separation issues involved in packing the aircraft tighter similar to LHR or LGWs missed approach procedures. Again though this is dependent on IAA implementation, not local controllers.

Minister

Anyway, good and actually very interesting as all that stuff above is did anyone hear the Ryanair C M O on Ivan Yates this evening? The love in with the unions is working perfectly and their delays are all due to those pesky, inefficient, public sector French Air Traffic Controllers!! Or so he said.....!!!!!

Anyone in the know agree or disagree?

L1011

They absolutely aren't all down to it. They aren't helping, but there are still obvious reductions in service.

sabat

L1011 wrote: »

Ryanair have a severe staffing issue on top of all the seasonal and strike delays - they are cancelling and delaying more flights than anyone else

I'm currently sitting on the runway at Bucharest on a flight that was due to take off 40 minutes ago and the captain has just announced that a cabin crew member was taken ill suddenly and we have to wait another 30 minutes for a replacement to show up. After reading this thread I suspect he might be bullsh1tting us.

L1011

sabat wrote: »

I'm currently sitting on the runway at Bucharest on a flight that was due to take off 40 minutes ago and the captain has just announced that a cabin crew member was taken ill suddenly and we have to wait another 30 minutes for a replacement to show up. After reading this thread I suspect he might be bullsh1tting us.

If you actually seeing another cabin crew member arrive and board; its probably true.

Its flight deck crew they're seriously short of; captains specifically.

sabat

L1011 wrote: »

If you actually seeing another cabin crew member arrive and board; its probably true.

Its flight deck crew they're seriously short of; captains specifically.

Well I'm looking out the window to the left where there's another full Ryanair plane just sitting there-maybe there was some dodgy seafood in the canteen.

sabat

sabat wrote: »

Well I'm looking out the window to the left where there's another full Ryanair plane just sitting there-maybe there was some dodgy seafood in the canteen.

If your airplane is sat on the RUNWAY then it’s no wonder the other one can’t take off.

NH2013

Deleted User wrote: »

If your airplane is sat on the RUNWAY then it’s no wonder the other one can’t take off.

sabat

Ah I see, this is the aviation, aircraft and pedantry forum. Still here...on the runway. I'm gonna keep saying it now.

Minister

sabat wrote: »

Ah I see, this is the aviation, aircraft and pedantry forum. Still here...on the runway. I'm gonna keep saying it now.

Just for pedantry sake........ are you on the runway or a taxiway beside the runway😉

Chris_5339762

Without any proof whatsoever, I think Ryanair are masking their own delays by blaming ATC for absolutely everything.