Train cancellations 18th June onwards

Working class heroes

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They should also prevent any specials from operating over the duration of the cuts. You know to ensure the overtime bill stays down!

Ah but specials are profitable, no?

Jamie2k9

Working class heroes wrote: »

Ah but specials are profitable, no?

They do or so we're told, I don't believe all make profits but thats another issue.

Public service should come before profitable specials...

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They do or so we're told, I don't believe all make profits but thats another issue.

Public service should come before profitable specials...

Specials operate as a service to the public too, their use is always encouraged over driving for example.

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

Specials operate as a service to the public too, their use is always encouraged over driving for example.

Specials operate when IE pick and choose to provide the public with a service. They provided an excellent public service after Taylor Swift by putting the service on sale 72 hours before yet planned to run it a few weeks earlier.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Specials operate when IE pick and choose to provide the public with a service. They provided an excellent public service after Taylor Swift by putting the service on sale 72 hours before yet planned to run it a few weeks earlier.

The problem with planning vs announcement is that with the current staff shortage it is not known if they can be actually run until nearer the time so they don't advertise - many pre planned specials have been cancled last minute due to no drivers including the Taylor Swift concert.

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

The problem with planning vs announcement is that with the current staff shortage it is not known if they can be actually run until nearer the time so they don't advertise - many pre planned specials have been cancled last minute due to no drivers including the Taylor Swift concert.

I did figure it was likely the reasoning however if they had drivers available you would be lucky to have it on sale more than 2 weeks before travel.

Hilly Bill

Just waiting on Mr K to make an announcement now. It's not going to be pretty from what I've seen.

Working class heroes

*drum roll *

Hilly Bill

Working class heroes wrote: »

*drum roll *

Ham and cheese for me please.

GM228

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Just waiting on Mr K to make an announcement now. It's not going to be pretty from what I've seen.

Indeed, rumour is the NTA have approved some (but not all) cancellations to start next week.

Hilly Bill

GM228 wrote: »

Indeed, rumour is the NTA have approved some (but not all) cancellations to start next week.

I don't know what they were looking for but next week is going to be busy on twitter.

GM228

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I don't know what they were looking for but next week is going to be busy on twitter.

See post #6

devnull

Seems we may be seeing fiasco about mentoring and the new drivers being paid to do diddly squat whilst the existing drivers earn large amounts of overtime coming home to roost.

Basically it seems to be a situation where the lack of mentoring and the time it took to solve that dispute is leading to a situation where there are not enough drivers to operate a service without paying lots of overtime to existing staff.

If the training had started earlier we'd probably not have the service cancellations because they'd have saved a lot of money in overtime and have more fully trained staff they can roster on the services to boot.

The fact the mentoring issue is now resolved though should thankfully mean this is a one off situation.

Hilly Bill

devnull wrote: »

Seems we may be seeing fiasco about mentoring and the new drivers being paid to do diddly squat whilst the existing drivers earn large amounts of overtime coming home to roost.

Basically it seems to be a situation where the lack of mentoring and the time it took to solve that dispute is leading to a situation where there are not enough drivers to operate a service without paying lots of overtime to existing staff.

If the training had started earlier we'd probably not have the service cancellations because they'd have saved a lot of money in overtime and have more fully trained staff they can roster on the services to boot.

The fact the mentoring issue is now resolved though should thankfully mean this is a one off situation.

Always with the conspiracy theory..

devnull

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Always with the conspiracy theory..

Leading up to this the following happened:
- Irish Rail spent well over a year paying new drivers to do nothing.
- This was because existing staff refused to mentor them
- This meant that they had less staff available than they projected.
- This was lucrative for existing drivers as it allowed them to earn more overtime.
- This meant that Irish Rail had to spend a lot more money on overtime which ate cash

The current situation is:
- Irish Rail do not have enough trained staff to run a full schedule
- They cannot afford to pay huge levels of overtime to cover this.

If there was no hold up on training new drivers:
- They would have more staff to carry out their operational requirements
- They would not have spent so much money on overtime.
- Therefore they would be able to spend more on it now.

I'm sure the unions will paint it as transport being underfunded, negating to say that their members have been refusing to train the additional staff that their company needs to fulfil operational requirements and profiting from it at the same time by feathering their own cap to the point that the public will now suffer.

The NTA are in a fairly tight spot here, they know that if services are cancelled they will be accused of the above by the unions, but they know that at the same time that a culture where staff use the system to extract much overtime as possible isn't one that they should promote and by allowing service cancellations they send that message out.

From what's been posted on here so far it seems they may have met somewhere in the middle.

Hilly Bill

devnull wrote: »

Leading up to this the following happened:
- Irish Rail spent well over a year paying new drivers to do nothing.
- This was because existing staff refused to mentor them
- This meant that they had less staff available than they projected.
- This was lucrative for existing drivers as it allowed them to earn more overtime.
- This meant that Irish Rail had to spend a lot more money on overtime which ate cash

The current situation is:
- Irish Rail do not have enough trained staff to run a full schedule
- They cannot afford to pay huge levels of overtime to cover this.

If there was no hold up on training new drivers:
- They would have more staff to carry out their operational requirements
- They would not have spent so much money on overtime.
- Therefore they would be able to spend more on it now.

I'm sure the unions will paint it as transport being underfunded, negating to say that their members have been refusing to train the additional staff that their company needs to fulfil operational requirements and profiting from it at the same time by feathering their own cap to the point that the public will now suffer.

The NTA are in a fairly tight spot here, they know that if services are cancelled they will be accused of the above by the unions, but they know that at the same time that a culture where staff use the system to extract much overtime as possible isn't one that they should promote and by allowing service cancellations they send that message out.

From what's been posted on here so far it seems they may have met somewhere in the middle.

It's still a conspiracy theory.

hole in my lovelywall

The suspense is killing me.

devnull

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It's still a conspiracy theory.

You don't think a lack of available, trained staff means more overtime money for the people who are already trained for the job?

You don't think that paying staff for overtime when there are staff that are already being paid that should be trained to do the job but aren't costs more money?

It's not even about conspiracy theories to be honest, it's just HR basics and simple maths.

Hilly Bill

They are being trained and mentored.

cython

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They are being trained and mentored.

I think you missed an important word somewhere in your post, specifically the word "now" - as already outlined, this is too late to prevent this, and it's also significantly later than the original schedule envisaged for them.

devnull

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They are being trained and mentored.

Indeed they are but not until recently and all of the drivers are not yet able to run services on their own which is why Irish Rail face a shortfall of staff in the next few weeks because of how long the dispute rumbled on for.

The period they were not being mentored and sat around doing nothing meant Irish Rail had to spend huge amounts of money on overtime that they otherwise would not have needed to do so.

If this dispute had have been solved ages ago Irish Rail would have more money in the bank, more staff and no need to cancel services to the public.

marno21

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They are being trained and mentored.

= shutting the door after the horse has bolted. It's too late now

Hilly Bill

marno21 wrote: »

= shutting the door after the horse has bolted. It's too late now

They still have the horse and jockey.

Hilly Bill

cython wrote: »

I think you missed an important word somewhere in your post, specifically the word "now" - as already outlined, this is too late to prevent this, and it's also significantly later than the original schedule envisaged for them.

Have you been told its due to lack of drivers?

devnull

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Have you been told its due to lack of drivers?

Maybe they just read the first post in this thread?

Hilly Bill

devnull wrote: »

Maybe they just read the first post in this thread?

Nothing official from Irish rail yet then.

Jamie2k9

So while drivers are an issue, they have coped well until now. Are drivers refusing to work overtime since training has been forced on them or is it just annual holidays catching up.

Spontaneous cancellations have only started creeping into the schedule and making an impact since the vote. Before then most were known in advance.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Nothing official from Irish rail yet then.

Your just trolling now, Irish Rail will spin a lie in relation to cancellations.

GM228

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They still have the horse and jockey.

Plenty of horses, just not enough jockeys.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Are drivers refusing to work overtime since training has been forced on them or is it just annual holidays catching up.

Apparently even with an ambundance of OT IE are struggling to cover trains due to a massive shortage of drivers nationally.

monument

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Your just trolling now, Irish Rail will spin a lie in relation to cancellations.

Cut out the back seat moderation.

-- moderator

Working class heroes

GM228 wrote: »

Plenty of horses, just not enough jockeys.

Or whips.

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

Apparently even with an ambundance of OT IE are struggling to cover trains due to a massive shortage of drivers nationally.

So has there been a lot of retirements, the service levels have not increased much over the last 5 years apart from PPT.

thomasj

I see that according to the journey planner, the 16:00hrs Connolly Sligo will only run as far as Mullingar monday-thursday from next week .

Add to that the 16:30 Sligo Connolly Sunday service is not listed from next week.

tara83

Has there been any communication yet of what's cancelled?

Hilly Bill

thomasj wrote: »

I see that according to the journey planner, the 16:00hrs Connolly Sligo will only run as far as Mullingar monday-thursday from next week .

Add to that the 16:30 Sligo Connolly Sunday service is not listed from next week.

16:00 to sligo is now Friday only.
Up to the 25th of August.
.

Hilly Bill

tara83 wrote: »

Has there been any communication yet of what's cancelled?

Tomorrow i think.

GM228

16.00 Connolly to Sligo to operate to Mullingar only (Monday to Thursday), operates as normal on a Friday and cancelled Saturday and Sunday.

16.30 Sligo to Connolly (Sunday) cancelled.

14.45 Connolly to Dundalk, 16.05 Dundalk to Connolly (Friday) cancelled.

All off peak M3 shuttles (Monday to Friday) replaced by bus.

07.05 Dundalk to Bray to operate to GCD only.

No other cancellations sanctioned by the NTA.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

So has there been a lot of retirements, the service levels have not increased much over the last 5 years apart from PPT.

Retirements, promotion etc.

Jamie2k9

Those cancellations are pretty reasonable over the summer months because numbers will be lower however numbers on M3 most be bad for them to allow a complete service suspension off peak.

nowaynever

GM228 wrote: »

Retirements, promotion etc.

....and demotions....

tara83

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Those cancellations are pretty reasonable over the summer months because numbers will be lower however numbers on M3 most be bad for them to allow a complete service suspension off peak.

Anecdotally it's been alot busier this year then others. On a couple of occasions in previous years I've felt like a VIP with my own train from Clonsilla to M3 parkway

devnull

Official update from IE:
http://www.irishrail.ie/news/rail-summer-timetable

Summer Timetable Revision 2018

Alternative summer timetables on Sligo, Dundalk and M3 Parkway routes from Monday 25th June

Iarnród Éireann Irish Rail advises customers of a number of changes to services this summer from Monday 25th June to Sunday 26th August. All affected services will be reinstated from Monday 27th August.

The changes reflect reduced demand for some services during the summer period, and ensure that special trains for matches, concerts and other summer events can be provided within existing driver resources.

Dublin Connolly/Sligo
16:00hrs Dublin Connolly to Sligo (currently Monday to Sunday) will operate on Friday only
16.00hrs DublinConnolly to Mullingar will operate instead on Monday to Thursday
16:30hrs Sligo to Dublin Connolly (Sunday only) will not operate during this period

Dundalk Commuter
07.10hrs Dundalk to Bray (Monday to Friday) will terminate in Grand Canal Dock
14.45hrs Dublin Connolly to Dundalk and 16.05hrs Dundalk to Dublin Connolly (both Friday only) will not operate during this period

Clonsilla to M3 Parkway
The following Off Peak M3 Parkway services will be substituted by road transfer:

11:14hrs, 12.14hrs, 13.16hrs and 14.16hrs Clonsilla to M3 Parkway (Monday to Friday)
11:43hrs, 12.40hrs, 13.45hrs and 14.40hrs M3 Parkway to Clonsilla (Monday to Friday).

Does kind of hint at the problem is a lack of drivers though, as has been discussed earlier in the thread so if there was not the mentoring issue in the past we'd most likely not see this issue.

Hilly Bill

devnull wrote: »

Official update from IE:
http://www.irishrail.ie/news/rail-summer-timetable



Does kind of hint at the problem is a lack of drivers though, as has been discussed earlier in the thread so if there was not the mentoring issue in the past we'd most likely not see this issue.

More assumptions regarding mentoring. There comes a time that we need to move on.

Working class heroes

So, going by that logic if there was an increased demand would the appropriate changes be made to reflect this?

tara83

I note it's day time off peak not the evening for M3 cancellations. Quicker to get bus at that time of day then changeover at Clonsilla and wait

devnull

Hilly Bill wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

Official update from IE:
http://www.irishrail.ie/news/rail-summer-timetable



Does kind of hint at the problem is a lack of drivers though, as has been discussed earlier in the thread so if there was not the mentoring issue in the past we'd most likely not see this issue.

More assumptions regarding mentoring. There comes a time that we need to move on.

Not assumptions at all.

Services are being cancelled due to lack of drivers.

There would be more fully trained drivers if the mentoring issues were solved quicker.

L1011

If they do the usual length reductions on Sligo trains on top of this there'll be quite serious protest

Bustitution on M3 shows it's not low demand anyway

devnull

L1011 wrote: »

If they do the usual length reductions on Sligo trains on top of this there'll be quite serious protest

Bustitution on M3 shows it's not low demand anyway

Am curious who they get to do the shuttle bus, since we keep hearing that DB and BE are short of drivers.

Working class heroes

TheTruth. wrote: »

Hello you bunch of retards, lets get things straight.

- Mark from Rail Users Ireland and Devnull are same person
- Many announcements were made on the train in Malahide
- The driver did not walk out of the train and go home
- The service cancellations are due to cuts in subsidy by the NTA
- They prevented the company running the services with overtime.

This is the truth, if you don't accept it that is your chocie, but the anti Irish Rail bastards on here should be taken out and shot for talking an excellent public service down amd trying to blacken the name of the working class.

It’s grand, I’m not blackened.

Jamie2k9

devnull wrote: »

Am curious who they get to do the shuttle bus, since we keep hearing that DB and BE are short of drivers.

It will be private most likely.