Should Dublin Football be split?

DONTMATTER

DONTMATTER wrote: »

That's not a great justification.

The issue is not what Dublin GAA should have done. The issue is how is this in anyway fair? Firstly to have development structures paid for and then to receive extra sponsorship off the success it's given Dublin GAA.
It's all this finance that has Dublin operating at a professional level. No other county comes close. That's why it can't continue.

I wasn't trying to justify it. For a man who decrys deflection at every turn, that's a nice piece of deflection yourself.

I'm not denying or confirming anything about the merits to Dublin or drawbacks to the rest of the GAA family. I don't want to get into the issue of fairness in any way shape or form. I asked a question, that is all.

What do you think should have happened*? "Sorry Vodafone, we couldn't possibly accept that big giant wad of cash because poor auld Leitrim and Carlow will be left in the dust for the next decade"?

*or, for that matter, what do you think should happen now?

DONTMATTER

Deleted User wrote: »

I wasn't trying to justify it. For a man who decrys deflection at every turn, that's a nice piece of deflection yourself.

I'm not denying or confirming anything about the merits to Dublin or drawbacks to the rest of the GAA family. I don't want to get into the issue of fairness in any way shape or form. I asked a question, that is all.

What do you think should have happened*? "Sorry Vodafone, we couldn't possibly accept that big giant wad of cash because poor auld Leitrim and Carlow will be left in the dust for the next decade"?

*or, for that matter, what do you think should happen now?

Well that's what this is all about! Splitting Dublin is not for the craic, it's because of the deep and multi layered imbalance.

Of course Dublin were going to accept this money and money from all of us. It's bought them success at all levels and grades, it wasn't against any rules but I would say it was immoral as it goes against the ethos of the GAA.

Once they took the money though, they knew the day would come when Dublin being split became a reality. It was on the table before they accepted the money, they've enjoyed great success. Now they've had their cake, they can't eat it too.

Dr. Bre

Sometimes ya see people wearing half and half jerseys. Well if dubs get split into 4 I’m wearing all 4 colors on one jersey..

munster87

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Sometimes ya see people wearing half and half jerseys. Well if dubs get split into 4 I’m wearing all 4 colors on one jersey..

A quarter and quarter and quarter and quarter jersey

Sonny678

So few comments on the Dublin split issue. I think we have to be fair to the Dubs. But the Dubs also should listen to commets and questions and finances. In an amateur finances will always be questioned.
Anyway When kerry and kilkenny won 2in a row 3 in a rows in 70s 80s 90s 00s there was little fuss in gaa land. Dublin win a 3 in row they criticised way more then Cats or kingdom. That is unfair. But that is the GAA world if a new team wins or team achieves something new for their county they are criticised.

Meath were called tough, Tyrone puke football, Donegal to defensive, Clare hurler 90s to physical and Galway 80s to much handpassing and possession game in hurling were all criticised. If Kerry Cork Dubin win Sam or kilkenny Cork Tipp win liam everything is rosey in gaa land. But anyone different their achievements are more criticised. The same way when Kerry kilkenny win multiple All Irelands in a row no one bats an eyelid. The Dubs win multiple Sams in a row. There is widespread criticism of Dublin finances.

I don't believe the theory the Dubs and money. This is just a golden generation. However there is questions about finances that should be talked about we are an amateur sport after all. But it doesnt take away from the Dubs wins.
The issue is if Dublin keep winning 2 or 3 or 4 in a rows in the 20s and 30s. Then we are seen something unprecedented. Then there is an issue. But what we r seen is just great Dublin players achieving great things like kilkenny did in 00s and kerry did in 70s and 80s .

Dublin sud dip in the late 20s.
After every team has all great period team that county declines afterwards. Eg Meath team 80s 90s decline in this decade and 09s
Down 90s team after down decline in 00s
Down 60 teams Down decline in 70s afterwards
Keery 75 to 86 afterwards kerry decline for 11 years
Cavan 48 52 Cavan decline in 70s and 80s after
kildare 27 28 Kildare decline after in 30s 40s 50s
Wexford 14 to 18 Wexford decline afterwards in 20s 30s 40s
Tippearey early 60s is Tipperary greatest team. Tiop have their worst period after in 70s and early 80s .

So the Dubs should decline in 20s.I think most people don't see them declining much in 20s. But they should be winning say less Sama. 2 Sams in 20s not 3 or 4 in a rows. If Dublin win say 6 or 7 Sams in this decade they shouldn't win 6 or 7 in 20s and 30s. That would be unusual and unprecedented. Then financial Dublin clout needs to examined. Then u could see two Dublin teams in championship and Dublin been penalised. But at the moment Dublin are being unfairly criticised. They just have worked hard and yes they had a plan and invested wisely and had great work done on the ground in club's and great managers and player in this decade. But if this continues for 20s and 3os well then it is an issue. Dublin just have an All time great team at the moment .

While people kerry and finances too r being criticised for me that is unfair coz kerry is our greatest football county who have this genuis like ablity to produce truly great players and great teams. As the older generation in Meath used to say kerry are gifted. They were right.

So I think both Dublin and kerry have been unfairly criticised for finances .

blanch152

DONTMATTER wrote: »

You didn't read my long post? I already clarified this. The negotiations begun off the back of these recommendations of this committee. The huge increase in finance for Dublin GAA came off the back of these recommendations by this committee. 51 titles in the past 13 years have been won off the back of the recommendations of this committee. You should be more grateful to this committee.

I'll post a bit from my long post again to help explain what happened:

Where it all began

First of all to the beginning. Where did this finance come from? Well, the idea was introduced by the Strategic Review Committee headed by former president Peter Quinn. They looked at the work that was being done by the Dublin County Board and they decided it needed improvement. They saw it as the population being too big for one county board to manage.
Here's what Christy Cooney, who chaired the sub committee that examined Dublin, had to say; "You must remember that there are 1.4 million people in the region and 2,000,000 or more will be there in 20 years time. There's no way one county board is going to manage that. We met all of the units in Dublin last year, as well as the county board. Improvements are necessary and that's not the fault of the board or clubs." Christy's numbers are a bit off, he overestimated both population figures but you get his point.
Peter Quinn stated; "We are recommending sizeable investment in terms of finance and personnel. We recognise that Dublin needs special attention, it's a key strategic matter."
He also said “Dublin is not a national problem, it's a national opportunity'. Meaning it would be mutually beneficial for the GAA and Dublin GAA to join forces. Dublin would increase standards and playing numbers across the county and the GAA would gain increased revenue from the growing popularity of Gaelic Games in Dublin.
Other recommendations from that committee was to split Dublin in two using the liffey as the boundary between north and south.

The Master Plan

From there negotiations began. These negotiations involved the Dublin County Board, the Leinster Council, the GAA and government ministers. They lasted two years and from it the master plan was formed. It's main aims were to divide the county into regions, loosely based on existing local authority areas, and focus its efforts on raising the profile of Gaelic games in schools, improving recruitment for clubs and establishing a structure for developing elite talent.
The strategy involved devolving work to regional areas, where the focus will be sharper on servicing the schools in those regions and identifying the elite talent. Kevin O'Shaughnessy was appointed Strategic Programme Manager. Reporting to him were the regional development officers, the hurling development officers and the games promotion officers.
Sean Kelly, who chaired the joint-committee that agreed the initiatives, said that the plans would 'make Dublin what it should be - the greatest GAA county in Ireland'. But what happened to the Strategic Review Committees other proposal you ask? They suggested higher investment in Dublin but also to split the county in two. Well somehow that was put off the table. Sean Kelly: 'No one's suggesting that Dublin should be divided in two. That's hogwash. No one's saying that for the moment.'
Interesting last line from Sean. Anyway, what did this sizeable investment involve. With huge Dublin GAA supporter Bertie Ahern being the Taoiseach of the day, finding government support for this plan proved easy.
The funding was to come from the GAA, Leinster council and a grant by from the citizens of Ireland, paid through the Irish Sports Council. As we know with the GAA, finding information and full records can sometimes be difficult. The announcement when the plan was launched by Bertie was that Dublin GAA would receive 7 million over 3 years. That is 2.3 million per year. The Dublin GAA released accounts gives a figure of 2.5 million for 2015 and 2.7 million for 2016.

And that master plan did not propose splitting Dublin. Thank you for acknowledging that.

So what we have is a committee that made recommendations. Wiser heads considered them and drew up a plan based on the sensible recommendations. And here we are now.

blanch152

Sonny678 wrote: »

So few comments on the Dublin split issue. I think we have to be fair to the Dubs. But the Dubs also should listen to commets and questions and finances. In an amateur finances will always be questioned.
Anyway When kerry and kilkenny won 2in a row 3 in a rows in 70s 80s 90s 00s there was little fuss in gaa land. Dublin win a 3 in row they criticised way more then Cats or kingdom. That is unfair. But that is the GAA world if a new team wins or team achieves something new for their county they are criticised.

Meath were called tough, Tyrone puke football, Donegal to defensive, Clare hurler 90s to physical and Galway 80s to much handpassing and possession game in hurling were all criticised. If Kerry Cork Dubin win Sam or kilkenny Cork Tipp win liam everything is rosey in gaa land. But anyone different their achievements are more criticised. The same way when Kerry kilkenny win multiple All Irelands in a row no one bats an eyelid. The Dubs win multiple Sams in a row. There is widespread criticism of Dublin finances.

I don't believe the theory the Dubs and money. This is just a golden generation. However there is questions about finances that should be talked about we are an amateur sport after all. But it doesnt take away from the Dubs wins.
The issue is if Dublin keep winning 2 or 3 or 4 in a rows in the 20s and 30s. Then we are seen something unprecedented. Then there is an issue. But what we r seen is just great Dublin players achieving great things like kilkenny did in 00s and kerry did in 70s and 80s .

Dublin sud dip in the late 20s.
After every team has all great period team that county declines afterwards. Eg Meath team 80s 90s decline in this decade and 09s
Down 90s team after down decline in 00s
Down 60 teams Down decline in 70s afterwards
Keery 75 to 86 afterwards kerry decline for 11 years
Cavan 48 52 Cavan decline in 70s and 80s after
kildare 27 28 Kildare decline after in 30s 40s 50s
Wexford 14 to 18 Wexford decline afterwards in 20s 30s 40s
Tippearey early 60s is Tipperary greatest team. Tiop have their worst period after in 70s and early 80s .

So the Dubs should decline in 20s.I think most people don't see them declining much in 20s. But they should be winning say less Sama. 2 Sams in 20s not 3 or 4 in a rows. If Dublin win say 6 or 7 Sams in this decade they shouldn't win 6 or 7 in 20s and 30s. That would be unusual and unprecedented. Then financial Dublin clout needs to examined. Then u could see two Dublin teams in championship and Dublin been penalised. But at the moment Dublin are being unfairly criticised. They just have worked hard and yes they had a plan and invested wisely and had great work done on the ground in club's and great managers and player in this decade. But if this continues for 20s and 3os well then it is an issue. Dublin just have an All time great team at the moment .

While people kerry and finances too r being criticised for me that is unfair coz kerry is our greatest football county who have this genuis like ablity to produce truly great players and great teams. As the older generation in Meath used to say kerry are gifted. They were right.

So I think both Dublin and kerry have been unfairly criticised for finances .

An excellent contribution and I fully agree with you.

If the money is to have any effect it will be in 7 or 8 years time. We are watching a team which may well be the GOAT. They are beating all sorts of records. Another All-Ireland or two and that debate will be over.

ArielAtom

DONTMATTER wrote: »

It's about all levels, the game across the entire country needs to be strengthened. Not just in Dublin.

Why do you want to restrict these kids from playing inter county football and hurling? Split Dublin into four and more of these kids will get a chance to play for their county. Even at underage, there's so many players available, they could line out for Fingal, South Dublin, Dublin city centre or Dun Laoighaire/Rathdown in the Leinster minor championships. It would give more of them an opportunity. That will help communities. Why are you against it?

I admire your staying power, you’re like Kev the lad who couldn’t make the A team at u16 and minor but keep going, just a thought, what kids in Dublin grew up thinking of playing for Fingal, South Dublin, well you know where I’m going. I have to stop this feeding frenzy!!!!!!!

DONTMATTER

blanch152 wrote: »

And that master plan did not propose splitting Dublin. Thank you for acknowledging that.

So what we have is a committee that made recommendations. Wiser heads considered them and drew up a plan based on the sensible recommendations. And here we are now.

Yeah, I never said any different. The Strategic Review Committee headed by Peter Quinn proposed splitting and funding. Dublin Gaa accepted the funding part but they all left knowing the splitting topic would never go away!
And here we are when the time has come.

DONTMATTER

ArielAtom wrote: »

I admire your staying power, you’re like Kev the lad who couldn’t make the A team at u16 and minor but keep going, just a thought, what kids in Dublin grew up thinking of playing for Fingal, South Dublin, well you know where I’m going. I have to stop this feeding frenzy!!!!!!!

It won't take long for that to set in.

Obviously not splitting Dublin and having fair competitions would be a more popular outcome. But Dublin County Board took the money. Fair competitions have been an impossibility since that day.
Splitting is the only solution in my opinion. That or suspending Dublin for 5 years while all other counties catch up on the professional structures that was put in place for Dublin.
Would Dublin fans have approved of the multi million Euro bonanza if they knew it would lead to this?
It's strange, from here Dublin fans are going to be torn. They want Dublin to win titles but, they know with every title will come more and more attention on this topic. So you might have some hoping they lose a few!

High Fidelity

DONTMATTER wrote: »

It won't take long for that to set in.

Obviously not splitting Dublin and having fair competitions would be a more popular outcome. But Dublin County Board took the money. Fair competitions have been an impossibility since that day.
Splitting is the only solution in my opinion. That or suspending Dublin for 5 years while all other counties catch up on the professional structures that was put in place for Dublin.
Would Dublin fans have approved of the multi million Euro bonanza if they knew it would lead to this?
It's strange, from here Dublin fans are going to be torn. They want Dublin to win titles but, they know with every title will come more and more attention on this topic. So you might have some hoping they lose a few!

Nah.

There is zero threat to splitting. Where is it, absolutely no formal process in place? The fact you are referencing a sub group recommendation from 15 years ago shows there is absolutely no appetite for it at decision making level. My understanding of the recommendation was made on the belief that because of the size of the population in Dublin it was more challenging for the DCB to attract people to the game and hence a split could make it easier to administer, the DCB have proved that it can administer the whole county subsequently. It was also a recomendation that required the DCB assent rather then something that could be imposed. The purpose of the recommendation had nothing to do with the strength of the senior teams and splitting more to do with attracting people to take up participation in the games through better administration. Safe to say it certainly focussed minds in the DCB. Its a keep warm at night thought for fans of Dublin closest rivals really.

I agree somewhat to splitting at underage up to senior. That could be a win/win really. The DCB should have a look into it, i know its done at some levels but there are limits on how far those teams can progress as we saw this year. I think it was Dublin North or Dublin South who won an underage Leinster Hurling this year who weren't allowed compete for the All Ireland beyond Leinster.

*well unless your purpose is to handicap the senior team and opposed to harvesting the huge potential in Dublin County.

DONTMATTER

High Fidelity wrote: »

Nah.

There is zero threat to splitting. Where is it, absolutely no formal process in place? The fact you are referencing a sub group recommendation from 15 years ago shows there is absolutely no appetite for it at decision making level. My understanding of the recommendation was made on the belief that because of the size of the population in Dublin it was more challenging for the DCB to attract people to the game and hence a split could make it easier to administer, the DCB have proved that it can administer the whole county subsequently. It was also a recomendation that required the DCB assent rather then something that could be imposed. The purpose of the recommendation had nothing to do with the strength of the senior teams and splitting more to do with attracting people to take up participation in the games through better administration. Safe to say it certainly focussed minds in the DCB. Its a keep warm at night thought for fans of Dublin closest rivals really.

I agree somewhat to splitting at underage up to senior. That could be a win/win really. The DCB should have a look into it, i know its done at some levels but there are limits on how far those teams can progress as we saw this year. I think it was Dublin North or Dublin South who won an underage Leinster Hurling this year who weren't allowed compete for the All Ireland beyond Leinster.

*well unless your purpose is to handicap the senior team and opposed to harvesting the huge potential in Dublin County.

It shouldn't be treated as a treat. It's a good thing for everyone. If the structures are in place countrywide, there will be a high number of teams competing for titles. Far more players from Dublin will get an opportunity to place senior inter county.

The Strategic Review Committee didn't want to step on anyone's toes but they basically said that the Dublin County Board weren't running a tight ship. Putting structures in place for them and pumping in huge financial resources has obviously fixed that.
Obviously the split was left to one side at the time but all parties knew it wasn't the end of that matter. And as you say, structures are already in place at underage level, it wouldn't be difficult to transition into this.

Having a fair competition for everyone and having a higher number of competitive teams will leave our games in a very healthy state. Steps towards this need to be made in the near future.

High Fidelity

DONTMATTER wrote: »

It shouldn't be treated as a treat. It's a good thing for everyone. If the structures are in place countrywide, there will be a high number of teams competing for titles. Far more players from Dublin will get an opportunity to place senior inter county.

The Strategic Review Committee didn't want to step on anyone's toes but they basically said that the Dublin County Board weren't running a tight ship. Putting structures in place for them and pumping in huge financial resources has obviously fixed that.
Obviously the split was left to one side at the time but all parties knew it wasn't the end of that matter. And as you say, structures are already in place at underage level, it wouldn't be difficult to transition into this.

Having a fair competition for everyone and having a higher number of competitive teams will leave our games in a very healthy state. Steps towards this need to be made in the near future.

It’s not SRC function or remit to be honest, it was one of a lot of possible outcomes at a particular time some were implemented, some where kicked to touch and subsequent history of success proves that the right decisions were made. I think we’re you are confused in this process was the purpose of this review was to enable Dublin Gaaand win the captain. You are going back over a 15 year ago subjective report with the idea of dismantling what has clearly worked and progress made by the GAA and DCB. I think you assume a lot, your post presents a train of thought as if this a phased plan that will end in a split. Clearly this isn’t the case, there is no formal process, no discussion, no pathway in place for it. It was a thought 15 years ago that was kicked to touch and never evaluated again at any GAA structural process or long term plan. That’s it really it’s a non entity.

GAA has never been in a more popular place, counties are getting more funds then ever, the profile of the game is now mainstream. Simply put the GAA can’t loose the capital and its strategic value.

The only value to splitting Dublin is to handicap them and deincenivise success, the only winner would be Dublin’s closest rivals. If a split would happen the championship would be devalued in my opinion. Imagine being the first county to win an All Ireland after a split, paper champions really.

Out of curiosity where do your own county loyalties lie?

Bonniedog

Where is Dublin's Iceland?

Instead of whinging about all the disadvantages, Iceland went out and did the business.

munster87

Bonniedog wrote: »

Where is Dublin's Iceland?

Instead of whinging about all the disadvantages, Iceland went out and did the business.

Dublin’s Iceland? Dublin is basically the opposite of Iceland in this case

Bonniedog

munster87 wrote: »

Dublin’s Iceland? Dublin is basically the opposite of Iceland in this case

I think you missed the point ...

Sonny678

nice_guy80 wrote:

Sorry for quoting the whole piece If you don't believe in the connection between the Dubs and money then why haven't Dublin produced crops of players like this in the past?

nice_guy80 wrote:

The money wasn't there before 2001 and so they were just the same as every other county. Doing their best on a meagre budget relying on voluntary coaches

Sorry niceguy80, I moved your qoute from Meath 87 88 v current thread to hear. I hope u dont mind . But its more relevent to here.

No problem about qouting about my whole piece. You have no other choice when I write in such a long winded way. So u asked me about Dubs 11 to 18 and money.

This is what I think. I am a Meath man so if I honestly thought finances was the reason for Dublins sucess I would let u know about it.

Thats not to say I have a few issues. The debate is interesting and has a validity to it in that GAA is amateur association. And the Dubs have become very defensive if anything is said negative about Mayo about state of leinster or kerry they see this as a slight against their great team. The fact is you can say negative things about Mayo being brillant but flawed and that is the least competitive leinster championship ever and it doesnt effect Dublins greatness whatsoever. This Dublin team is the greatest of the last 35 years one of the grestest of all time, win 4 they will be second greatest win 5 they will be greatest. Why coz 5 Sam 3 in a row = all time greatness. Titles in.any sports eg World Cup US Master Wimbledon Super Bowl mean greatness.

Also that the national media rte radio and tv and national dailys have kept away from.mentioning Dubs and finances is unusual . Its mentioned an odd time in papers but it has never mentioned on the Sunday Game which loves contervesey. We might laugh at sunday game but the fact is Sunday Game is very influential. The black card really was introduced after Brolly lost the plot over criticising Cavanagh tackle v Tyrone. And while it is being talked the lenght and breath of the country that mainstream media other then off the ball have laregly left it to one side.

I also find it disappointing from the Dubs that when people bring up counties like Meath or kildare in decline or other counties like Down they say its your own fault and look at Mayo. Mayo have unique dactors driving them.to win Sam eg end the famine etc etc..Yes it is our own fault. I can give u 20 reasons why Meath have declined and it has nothing to do with Dublin. But when the Dublin came with plans in mid 00s to GAA the GAA community at large was supportive and people agreed we needed a strong Dublin. But now when other counties are struggling like Dublin were in 03 and 04 the Dubs response is its your own fault. I find that disappointing and a bit mean spirited. The Dubs r gone very serious. Where has that world famous charm and crack we once knew. And so much what people write about Dublin finances I agree but for me the test is in the 20s not now ..Thats when that arguement will be won and lost.

For me when you look at this there r clear difference responses. There is no doubt when kerry and kilkenny won multiple All Irelands there was not the same reaction and outcry to when the Dubs win multiple All Ireland. Fair is fair. There is a difference. And for me that is classic GAA reaction when a new county wins titles or a county achieves new levels sucess there is criticism and negativity directed to that county eg Tyrone puke football, Meath tough, Donegal too defensive, Clare hurlers to physical, Galway hurlers 80s to much possession hurling, Dublin winning titles coz of finances etc etc.

When kerry Dublin Cork win Sam and kilkenny tipp Cork win liam everything is rosey in gaa land. If kerry footballers Cork Tipp kilkenny hurlers win 2 3 4 in a rows everything is a rosey in gaa land. Anything that is new or is different in gaelic games in terms of sucess is criticised.

Also players like Cluxton Connolly Brogan McMahon Sullivan Flynn McMemanin Macauley and many more were playing in 09 and 10 when kerry and Meath hammered them off the field. These players came on the scene in mid to late 00s , the funds started in mid 00s. How could those players be because of funding. Fenton and Callaghan might be and whats coming down the tracks in 2020s will be , but Cluxton Brogan and Connolly or not.

Why did Dublin win so much in this decade

1 Atleticism this is the most Atletic group of footballers I have ever seen.

2 Brillant mamagers eg Gilroy Galvin Farrell. If Pat Gilroy did not come on the scene Dublin might not and probaly have had so much sucess. Gilroy appointment was a game changer. look what he is doing with the hurlers.

3 Beating kerry in 2011. Let say McMemanin hit the post or Cluxton missed the free would Dublin have beeln so successful. I dont think so..That game in 2011 broke down the door for Dublin.

4 Beating kerry in 2013 and 15. Beating Dublin a few times usually turns Meath teams into great teams. Beating kerry a few times has had a massive impact on Dublin confidence. It might not be a great kerry team. But that is irrelevant. Beating kerry for Dublin is like Liverpool beating Man Utd. It gives them massive confidence. Beating them in 2013 was massive and also in 15 final..It meant Dublin for the first time were top dog in football not kerry first since 1920s.

5 This has led to Dublin confidence going through the roof .Dublin r a confidence team always have been.. The Dublin swagger is on steriods at the moment. All Ireland after All Ireland beating kerry over and over. Means confidence and positivty is through the roof in Dublin. Like when in 90s Meath then Donegal then Derry beat them, confidence hit the floor.

6 Best set of players Dublin have ever produced.

7 Best forwards in the country best set of forwards Dublin have ever produced eg Brogan Connolly kilkenny Flynn Mannion Rock McMemanin Callaghan.
Dublin great weakness was always in the forwards. Kerry had better forwards in 70s and 80s and 00s Tyrone had better forwards in 00s. Meath we always had better forwards even in the 70s Kerrigan Rennicks and O Rourke were just as good as Dublin forwards. Meath had better forwards in 40s 50s 60s 80s 90s and even 00s eg Geraghty Bray Sheridan Farrell Ward Reilly O Rourke then Dublin..In this decade Dublin have better forwards then Meath or kerry Dublin have the best in the country by a mile. Forwards win All Irelands.

Anyway to respond to the above when it was said before 2001 Dublin were the same as everyone . That is wrong, Dublin in 2000 had won 20 plus Sams while Donegal had 1 Sam and Armagh and Tyrone had zero Sams between them.

Dublin have always been superstrong. Dublin have always dominated leinster. If it wasnt for Meath and Offaly Dublin would have won 40 leinster titles in a row between 1958 and 1997. Betwen 58 and 97 Dublin Meath and Offaly won all the leinsters, exception being Longford in 68.

Particularly my own county if it wasnt for Meath Dublin would have up to 20 more leinster title and 5 6 or 7 more Sams. Dublin would be right behind kerry with 30 plus Sams. If Meath won no Sams in last 80 years and won just 1 or 2 leinsters which would in line with other leinster counties Dunlin would have won every leinster from 1983 to 1997.

What about the 70s and 80s. Dublin played in 9 All Ireland finals in 11 years..The only difference between then and now was they can beat kerry now they couldnt then. There was no finances then.

Dublin were seen as in the late 50s early 60s as superstrong they were changing football. Backboned by Vincents and Heffernan and new tactics eg roaming full forward Dublin were sucessful. Only again for kerry Dublin would have been as sucessful now. Again the country was broke in 50s and early 60s.

In 20s 30s and 40s Dublin had the pick of the best country footballers in Ireland as Dublin were a kind of top 15 culchie team. Again there was little money.

Dublin have always been strong they just happen to have brillant managers and the best set of Dublin players ever a golden generation now the same way kilkenny had in 00s, Meath had in 80s and 90s, the same way kerry had in 70s and 80s, the same way Galway had in 50s and 60s the same way Tipp had in 60s the same way Cork hurlers had in 40s and 50s.

However after all those counties had a golden generation they declined seriously afterwards ( I know kilkenny havent yet that is down Cody but they have dipped)., so Dublin should decline in 2020 and 30s. Even a dip of sorts where they win 2 All Irelands in 20s not 6 7 or 8.

If Dublin win 7 or 8 win 3 in a rows 2 in a r rows 4 in a rows multiple Sams in the 20s well that is unprecedented then the peole who arguing v Dublin finances them they are right. But for me what I can see this current generation are down to hard work on the ground and great players and managers.

And people saying Dublin wouldn't decline. No one in Tipp in 60s or kerry after 70s or 80s or Meath after 80s or 90s thought they would decline. If Dublin dont then finances are playing a role..Coz in the 2020s thats really when you would see a difference investment has made.

But there are indications at underage this might not happen . With Dublin finance surely Dublin should be winning 4 minors in a row not kerry. Dublin have only won 1 minor All Ireland in this decade. Yes Dublin are strong at under 21 level but it means they are up where Mayo Cork Tyrone kerry have being for years. At underage minor level Dublin at start ot this decade were doninant. Which is usually happens when team has sucess at senior level. Meath won 2 minors in 90s Clare hurlers won 1 minor also in 90s Donegal reached first ever minor final in this decade for a sucessful senior team can lift all boats in the county and positively surround all those county wins.

Yet kildare have been the dominate force at minor level in last 3 to 4 years and Meath have beaten Dublin around the minor grade 4 times in 4 years. At the start of the decade Dublin were wiping the floor with Meath minors now the gap has closed and Meath are now beaten Dublin yearly. Of course Meath need to turn this into titles. But even at under 20 kildare have been competitive for years and Meath look competive this year and with minors that beaten Dublin coming through that should mean more competitive Meath teams at under 20...Those kildare and Meath players should come through in mid to late 20s in terms of peaking. And if players in Meath and kildare can be hold onto and these players have the right manager, allot of the time underage wins are copied at senior.

Now Dublin being so strong might mean more players will drop off for Meath and kildare. But there are indications Meath and kildare are getting their act together. There will be a wildcard team in 20s also, what I mean is a county no one predicted eg Down in 60s, Offaly in 70s, Meath in 80s, Donegal Derry in 90s or Tyrone in 00s or Donegal in this decade. A county will emerge that no would pick now for sucess in 20s .

Also there looks like there cud be a great kerry team with Clifford and co which will peak in mid 20s. There is no gurantee Dublin will continue to be so sucesful.

Anyway thats my twopence on the matter . I could be right I could be wrong.

Bonniedog

munster87 wrote: »

Dublin’s Iceland? Dublin is basically the opposite of Iceland in this case

Only saw the result, didn't watch it but for Iceland to draw with Argentina with some of the elite players in the world proves that any team sport still comes down to the men or women on the pitch, whatever the perceived advantages or disadvantages one or other might have.


Iceland drawing with Messi's team be equivalent of Antrim drawing with the Cats.

OldMrBrennan83

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Sonny678

Contd from last message
kildare have dominated minor winning 3 of the last 4 years in leinster. Meath have beaten Dublin 4 times at minor level in 4 years. kildare have been competitive in this decade at under 21 and Meath look competive this year at under 20 and if these minors come through that will continue at this grade. If Meath and kildare can keep these players and have a strong senior manager in the mid to late 20s Meath and kildare could be strong and could come roaring back. Dublin have gone up a level at under 21 but they are just reaching the level Cork Mayo Tyrone kerry Galway are at that level.

In 2020s there will be a wildcard a team no predicts now for sucess eg Down in 60s, Offaly in 70s, Meath in 80s, Derry Galway in 90s, Tyrone in 00s, Donegal in this decade. So a team will emerge next decade we dont see now as an contender.

Also we can see a strong kerry team in mid 20s when Clifford and co peak.

In the 2020s Dublin will face different challenges and teams.

Anyway thats my twopence I could be right I could be wrong.
Thats my last comment on the matter.

Sonny678

This is what I can see happenin I dont know Im only guessing I could be 100% wrong but if it follows what we have seen before this my prediction for next ten years I could be wrong. Im only making a guess of what is coming in the next ten years.

1 Dublin will win 4 in a row very impressivly. I can see Dublin winning semi final and finals by big margins this year. This Dublin team hasnt blown away team in a final yet its going to happen sometime, I can see it this year. If kerry play Dublin in semi final or final, I can see a big win for Dublin. Dublin will win the 4 in a row and are undisputed second greatest team ever. Dublin champions 2018

2 2019 Five in a row mania will be everwhere like Kerry in 82 and kilkenny in 2011 or 10.
It is the holy grail of Irish sport kerry couldnt do it ,Kilkenny couldnt do it even Gareth Brooks could do the 5 in a row. I can see kerry v Dublin final.and like Tipp in 2010 Kerry will stop the 5 in row. Kerry champions 2019.

3 2020 to 2024 Dublin will regroup and like Kerry after losing the 5 in a row in 82 and like kilkenny in 10. Dublin will win a couple of All Irelands. Dublin will.win 2 to 3 of the first All Irelands in the early 20s. ( Dublin champions in 2021 2023 ) And will eitheir reach 8 All Irelands which will put them equal with kerry 75 -86 as the greatest ever or Dublin will win 9 and be the undisputed greatest ever.

4 In the mid 20s Cluxton Connolly Brogan Flynn McMahon are all gone. Fenton and Callaghan will have allot of football played and Jim Galvin could be gone and Dublin should dip / decline

5 So in the mid and latter part of the 20s u should see kerry winning multiple All.Irelands and other counties comung back eg Cork. Surely Cork will come back. And from 2025 to 2030 Dublin should be less sucessful and shouldnt be winning All Irelands ( Kerry All Ireland champions 2024 2025 ). Then in 2020s late Mayo will come with another team and end the famine 2026 -2030 with a win in this period. I have feeling why they will do that then. But I wouldnt share it. Galway Cork Down Donegal Armagh Tyrone Meath kildare Roscommon laois Derry Monaghan , some two or more teams from the above will probaly emerge. eg Lets say Galway All Ireland champions 2026 Mayo All Ireland champions 2027. Donegal All Ireland champions 2028 Armagh All Ireland champions 2029 Kerry All Ireland champions 2030 Dublin ( back again with a new team) All Ireland champions 2031.

Im only guessing wins Im not sure . But for me the above would be a natural GAA sucessful era similar to kerry 75 to 86 and Cats 00s. If Dublin in the 20s win 6 , 7 , 8 All Irelands, win 2 in a rows 3 in a row 4 in a row 5 in a rows etc etc. That would be unprecedented in football.
That would be unusual.

So the truth is not for ten years time when we are all a bit stiffer all bit greyer in 2028 2029 will be really able to say for certain about Dublin and finances.
Thats just my twopence.

Bonniedog

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Hurls with Dicksboro.

DONTMATTER

High Fidelity wrote: »

It’s not SRC function or remit to be honest, it was one of a lot of possible outcomes at a particular time some were implemented, some where kicked to touch and subsequent history of success proves that the right decisions were made. I think we’re you are confused in this process was the purpose of this review was to enable Dublin Gaaand win the captain. You are going back over a 15 year ago subjective report with the idea of dismantling what has clearly worked and progress made by the GAA and DCB. I think you assume a lot, your post presents a train of thought as if this a phased plan that will end in a split. Clearly this isn’t the case, there is no formal process, no discussion, no pathway in place for it. It was a thought 15 years ago that was kicked to touch and never evaluated again at any GAA structural process or long term plan. That’s it really it’s a non entity.

GAA has never been in a more popular place, counties are getting more funds then ever, the profile of the game is now mainstream. Simply put the GAA can’t loose the capital and its strategic value.

The only value to splitting Dublin is to handicap them and deincenivise success, the only winner would be Dublin’s closest rivals. If a split would happen the championship would be devalued in my opinion. Imagine being the first county to win an All Ireland after a split, paper champions really.

Out of curiosity where do your own county loyalties lie?

I'm just showing that the splitting of Dublin was and is a serious suggestion. You had former and future GAA presidents presiding over this Review Committee. These are big hitters. The decision was made to not go ahead with the splitting but as I said, all sides knew that wasn't the end of the matter.

The GAA won't be losing the capital! It will have 4 strong teams from there, it will create a vibrant Gaelic Football scene. Local derbies will be one of the highlights, obviously giving young players the opportunity to play senior inter county is another. For the overall competition is would make it fair.

Don't forget, the only reason that Dublin should be split is because of the financial doping. That has devalued our games. Something must be done to right the wrongs. This solution does that and strengthens our games overall.

DONTMATTER

Bonniedog wrote: »

Where is Dublin's Iceland?

Instead of whinging about all the disadvantages, Iceland went out and did the business.

I think you're forgetting that Dublin have won 51 titles in all grades and codes since the financial doping. This isn't just about the senior footballers.

BarryD2

Heard our Taoiseach being interviewed the other and in course of chat, he clearly referred to County Fingal....

So it does exist, as does County Dunlaoighre Rathdown, County Dublin South and Dublin City Council.

https://www.integratingdublin.ie/about/area.html

Way to go.

High Fidelity

DONTMATTER wrote: »

I'm just showing that the splitting of Dublin was and is a serious suggestion. You had former and future GAA presidents presiding over this Review Committee. These are big hitters. The decision was made to not go ahead with the splitting but as I said, all sides knew that wasn't the end of the matter.

The GAA won't be losing the capital! It will have 4 strong teams from there, it will create a vibrant Gaelic Football scene. Local derbies will be one of the highlights, obviously giving young players the opportunity to play senior inter county is another. For the overall competition is would make it fair.

Don't forget, the only reason that Dublin should be split is because of the financial doping. That has devalued our games. Something must be done to right the wrongs. This solution does that and strengthens our games overall.

Ive seen nothing to suggest splitting formally by the GAA, there is no formal pathway or process there unless you know something i dont? Its gone the way of the Dodo really.

The capital would of course be lost, it would have zero support and general interest in Gaelic Games would be gone. Its that simple really.

You keep leaving out "in my opinion" in your posts, essentially that all you are posting.

County loyalties?

ArielAtom

BarryD2 wrote: »

Heard our Taoiseach being interviewed the other and in course of chat, he clearly referred to County Fingal....

So it does exist, as does County Dunlaoighre Rathdown, County Dublin South and Dublin City Council.

https://www.integratingdublin.ie/about/area.html

Way to go.

Where can you see County Fingal??? It does however say Fingal County Council. Big difference.

DONTMATTER

High Fidelity wrote: »

Ive seen nothing to suggest splitting formally by the GAA, there is no formal pathway or process there unless you know something i dont? Its gone the way of the Dodo really.

The capital would of course be lost, it would have zero support and general interest in Gaelic Games would be gone. Its that simple really.

You keep leaving out "in my opinion" in your posts, essentially that all you are posting.

County loyalties?

It's gaining traction. Most will admit that something must be done about this situation, the question is what. Splitting is a viable solution and one that we know high ranking GAA officials have had in their mind in the past.

It will catch on quickly, especially when people see the benefits. Remember the Dublin hurlers used to get crowds of 300. After the financially induced improvements, look how the crowds increased. There's no reason why the 4 new counties won't be competitive. With that will come supporters.

I could say the same about you!

I answered that question ages ago.

OldMrBrennan83

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DONTMATTER

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Something must be done and this is a very viable option.

OldMrBrennan83

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ThunbergsAreGo

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Patww79 wrote: »

It has no chance.

Something must be done and this is a very viable option.

Why must something be done?

Dublin haven't thrashed a team in any final and have won the last 5 by a combined 8 points (or so)

Is it leinster? Put Kerry in there and it'd be the same result

Bonniedog

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Local derbies .

Local Derbies!

Listen, have you not something better to be doing with your time than obsessing with Dublin GAA. It has nothing to do with you. Concentrate on wherever you come from.

DONTMATTER

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

As I've pointed out, splitting Dublin has been as a viable option at the top echelons of the GAA. It can't be dismissed.

OldMrBrennan83

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DONTMATTER

naughtb4 wrote: »

Why must something be done?

Dublin haven't thrashed a team in any final and have won the last 5 by a combined 8 points (or so)

Is it leinster? Put Kerry in there and it'd be the same result

Why is everyone ignoring the 51 titles? This is not just about the senior footballers!

DONTMATTER

Bonniedog wrote: »

Local Derbies!

Listen, have you not something better to be doing with your time than obsessing with Dublin GAA. It has nothing to do with you. Concentrate on wherever you come from.

One county being handed huge resources and making all competitions completely unfair and imbalanced is something that concerns all members of the GAA.

DONTMATTER

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's about the millions upon millions of euro pumped into Dublin GAA. Suggesting it's about anything else is very dishonest.

High Fidelity

DONTMATTER wrote: »

One county being handed huge resources and making all competitions completely unfair and imbalanced is something that concerns all members of the GAA.

Kerry?

DONTMATTER

High Fidelity wrote: »

Kerry?

No, Dublin. Haven't you been following?

ArielAtom

Gents, it’s time to stop replying to this thread, replying is only giving one person the ability to reply with the same drivel. Looks like it was a register just to post in this thread. Time to put on ignore.

High Fidelity

DONTMATTER wrote: »

No, Dublin. Haven't you been following?

Ah I get confused between the financially doped teams.

High Fidelity

ArielAtom wrote: »

Gents, it’s time to stop replying to this thread, replying is only giving one person the ability to reply with the same drivel. Looks like it was a register just to post in this thread. Time to put on ignore.

This is actually the best post in the thread, the young man in on rinse and repeat and just wants to post dogma, replying is just giving him a foundation for an agenda to post just that..

Pity because it would be a good debate to have with real GAA fans it defo has some value in consideration at underage.

jon1981

Splitting Dublin would be like dancing on the graves of past Dublin team members and families going back generations and all achievements to date. It WILL NEVER happen.

Perhaps theres some argument for putting in place a financial quota but on what basis? Number of player registrations across all teams and levels? You can't use population. Population has too many variables.

DONTMATTER

High Fidelity wrote: »

Ah I get confused between the financially doped teams.

Time for some graphics me thinks.

High Fidelity

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Time for some graphics me thinks.

Ha ha registered players.

DONTMATTER

jon1981 wrote: »

Splitting Dublin would be like dancing on the graves of past Dublin team members and families going back generations and all achievements to date. It WILL NEVER happen.

Perhaps theres some argument for putting in place a financial quota but on what basis? Number of player registrations across all teams and levels? You can't use population. Population has too many variables.

Actually, letting this continue would be more similar to dancing on the graves of past Dublin teams. Past Dublin teams won titles fairly and squarely. This is clearly not the case since 2005.

DONTMATTER

High Fidelity wrote: »

Ha ha registered players.

Oh you want more.

Bonniedog

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Actually, letting this continue would be more similar to dancing on the graves of past Dublin teams. Past Dublin teams won titles fairly and squarely. This is clearly not the case since 2005.

What bile did you vent on previous occasions Dublin won?

Before you had your current hobby horse.

Beechwoodspark

I’ve made my views known earlier in this thread. Won’t be repeating them except to say at this stage it is a case of when not if Dublin will be split.