Should Dublin Football be split?

DONTMATTER

blanch152 wrote: »

The one thing that is absolutely clear from this thread is that there is now universal acknowledgement that the current Dublin team is the greatest team to have played the game of Gaelic Football.

Whether or not you believe, as the likes of Dontmatter do, that this team was created and forged by money, that does not take away from the need to acknowledge them as the GOAT. In fact, you cannot make the argument that Dublin needs to be split, without first acknowledging the superiority and claims to greatness of the current Dublin team, otherwise, why need to split?

They're the greatest team money can buy. For that reason there will always be an asterisk beside their titles. Like Michelle Smith.

DONTMATTER

Powerhouse wrote: »

DONTMATTER wrote: »

How many Leinster titles at minor? /QUOTE]


In the last five years, less than Kildare.

Wrong, the correct answer is 5 in football and 3 in hurling. You're welcome.

DONTMATTER

harpsman wrote: »

The problem with that argument is that it’s not really one team. It’s a constant progression to the point where you have maybe 3? Of the 2011 team starting this year.

Kerry 78-86 had 11 players who started both and won 7 from 9.

I do agree Dublin 2011-...... are better but maybe not one team

Of course that's more proof that it's not just a one off team but a large number of players created through the highly financed system.

odyssey06

DONTMATTER wrote: »

They're the greatest team money can buy. For that reason there will always be an asterisk beside their titles. Like Michelle Smith.

Funny, I don't see one anywhere that matters.

Maybe all the titles in the 1970s should have asterisks too because in your opinion "county football was in a heap"?

Seems like the only titles you want to count are the ones from 1990 to 2010.

TrueGael

blanch152 wrote: »

You have to leave out 1975 to get that statistic from Kerry. In order to do the same with Dublin, you would have to leave out 2011 which was Gilroy's team, not Gavin's.

Furthermore, it is now a 21 or 22-man game, and there is similar variance between the 2013 Gavin team and the current team as seen in the Kerry team of the 1970s/80s. Of the 20 players used by Gavin in the 2013 All-Ireland final, 15 saw action in the 2017 All-Ireland final. That is a similar percentage to the 11 out of 15 you quote. If you include MacAuley and Daly who were on the bench, but didn't feature, you have 17 of the 20 used in 2013 still involved. Of the three who are gone, Bastick and Brennan have retired, while O'Carroll is off in New Zealand. Hardly a radical changing of the guard.

For 2018, Connolly is the only one of that 2013 team who can be added to the list of definite departures, and hopefully it is only temporary. O'Gara hasn't featured yet and may not. Brogan, O'Sullivan and McCaffrey will feature once they recover from long-term injuries, so I would expect at least 15 of the 20 involved in 2013 to play a part in the 2018 campaign. With Connolly returning next year, that could go up to 16 in 2019.

Yes obviously 1975 was left out as that was a 12 year period we are comparing like with like - a 9 year period against a 7 year period(let's compare again after 2019 season to get a true comparison) 11-17 and the facts are clear there were 11 same starters for Kerry versus only 8 for Dublin with a ONE year gap 16 and 17

One was truly once in a lifetime, the other is a Juggernaut churning out player after player , you think Dublin will regress organically like Kerry did or Kilkenny did? Santa and the tooth fairy are more believable

Powerhouse

TrueGael wrote: »

One was truly once in a lifetime, the other is a Juggernaut churning out player after player , you think Dublin will regress organically like Kerry did or Kilkenny did? Santa and the tooth fairy are more believable

Kilkenny had just five of the same players in the 2012 final as in 2006 so they were churning them out as much as anyone ever did. They too regressed organically.

The_Kew_Tour

No need split Dublin into 2.

Just be fair with money going to clubs and not pumping everything into Dublin Clubs

DONTMATTER

odyssey06 wrote: »

Funny, I don't see one anywhere that matters.

Maybe all the titles in the 1970s should have asterisks too because in your opinion "county football was in a heap"?

Seems like the only titles you want to count are the ones from 1990 to 2010.

No, winning titles because the standard of the competition is poor is just one of those things. Winning titles because of millions upon millions of euro goes against the very ethos of the game. You see the difference?

The asterisk will always be there for Dublin post funding.

harpsman

Powerhouse wrote: »

harpsman wrote: »

Not all that wrong maybe. 2000 Leinster final Dub v KIldare attendance 51,156. 2017 final same pairing attendance 66,734.

2002 Leinster final with same teams had 82,000 and probably could have got 90,000 had the space been available. Average Dublin crowds pre all Ireland semifinal much better then than now

harpsman

blanch152 wrote: »

It is much harder to get a ticket on the day for All-Ireland semis and finals.

Time was, and I was there, that you could sit in Wynn's nursing a pint of Guinness for hours and expect to pick up a spare one.

Ah jaysus times were hard ye filthy bowsey
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4rC-xt3bnUk

Coillte_Bhoy

odyssey06 wrote: »

Cork has nearly 50% of the population of Munster.
Galway has nearly 50% of the population of Connaught.
How is that not a waste of resources?

In Dublin's 1.4 million you are actually including players living there who play for other counties. There is a county size population of people in Dublin who weren't born in Ireland who don't know the first thing about Gaelic football or Hurling and have no interest in doing so.

IN 2015 Dublin had 40,000 registered GAA players, Cork had 33,000 and Galway had 21,000. Dublin had three times the population of Connaught but less registered GAA players than in that province.

Thats interesting and a much better stat to be using than base population

DONTMATTER

Edit: I have found some of my old tables. I don't have enough posts to put them up yet but I will do at a later time.

harpsman

odyssey06 wrote: »

Cork has nearly 50% of the population of Munster.
Galway has nearly 50% of the population of Connaught.
How is that not a waste of resources?

In Dublin's 1.4 million you are actually including players living there who play for other counties. There is a county size population of people in Dublin who weren't born in Ireland who don't know the first thing about Gaelic football or Hurling and have no interest in doing so.

IN 2015 Dublin had 40,000 registered GAA players, Cork had 33,000 and Galway had 21,000. Dublin had three times the population of Connaught but less registered GAA players than in that province.

Don’t worry-the gaa are spending plenty of cash making sure you’ll have double that number in a couple of years. Cos you couldn’t have the chisellers putting up with the facilihies that the culchies have to.

BarryD2

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Are you joking?? What county are you from?

Counties like Louth, Carlow, Wicklow, Westmeath etc are perpetual whipping boys. What's so great about the beloved counties that consigns them to endless defeats??

And for the record, Dublin HAS FOUR COUNTIES: Fingal, Dunlaoighre/ Rathdown, South Dublin and Dublin City with populations of 250,000 to 500,000 apiece. Each with it's own county buildings and local administration.

Coillte_Bhoy

BarryD2 wrote: »

Are you joking?? What county are you from?

Counties like Louth, Carlow, Wicklow, Westmeath etc are perpetual whipping boys. What's so great about the beloved counties that consigns them to endless defeats??

And for the record, Dublin HAS FOUR COUNTIES: Fingal, Dunlaoighre/ Rathdown, South Dublin and Dublin City with populations of 250,000 to 500,000 apiece. Each with it's own county buildings and local administration.

Ridiculous argument. They are merely administrative local govt areas, they could easily be changed in the future

DONTMATTER

They're perfectly set out for splitting. Those 4 teams would still have populations far higher than a lot of counties.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

harpsman

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Ridiculous argument. They are merely administrative local govt areas, they could easily be changed in the future

So is every other county. They’ve just been around a bit longer

odyssey06

harpsman wrote: »

So is every other county. They’ve just been around a bit longer

Dublin first played in the All Ireland Hurling in 1889, their first All Ireland Football title came in 1891. That predates the foundation of the state.

In the 1880s Clontarf and Pembroke existed as separate administrative 'councils'.

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown & Fingal are important entities when it comes to paying your local property tax, but it has no GAA stadium, from a sporting point of view, it does not exist!
And if Dublin gets a mayor I dont know where that leaved those divisions.

munster87

At the end of the day, as a person from outside of Dublin, I would prefer to beat, or put it up to, a full Dublin team than a team divided up.

Powerhouse

harpsman wrote: »

Powerhouse wrote: »

2002 Leinster final with same teams had 82,000 and probably could have got 90,000 had the space been available. Average Dublin crowds pre all Ireland semifinal much better then than now

In fairness I think when you stray into the 2000s and Celtic Tiger eras attendances I think comparisons are more problematic. I remember Cork and Wexford pulling nearly 70k for an All Ireland semi final in 2003. Also the Ulster final had to move to Croke Park to accommodate the demand when, funnily enough in the context of this conversation, the Ulster teams were most successful. But late 1990s when Dublin were not winning I have no recollection of 70k or 80k at Leinster Finals or at Dublin's regular Leinster games.

Some I can verify: 1999 Leinster quarter-final: Dublin v Louth Attendance 39,009; Leinster semi-final: Dublin v Laois Attendance 28,371; Dublin v Laois Replay Attendance 33,268; Leinster Final Meath v Dublin Attendance 56,315.

2000 Leinster semi-final: Dublin v Westmeath Attendance 30,792.









.

Powerhouse

harpsman wrote: »

Don’t worry-the gaa are spending plenty of cash making sure you’ll have double that number in a couple of years. Cos you couldn’t have the chisellers putting up with the facilihies that the culchies have to.

Culchies are far too busy lining the pockets of team trainers at €100 a night with money from their local GAA lotto instead of developing facilities of their own. They can't really complain. The generate a lot of money but insist on enriching the small few instead of investing it in facilities.

TrueGael

Powerhouse wrote: »

Culchies are far too busy lining the pockets of team trainers at €100 a night with money from their local GAA lotto instead of developing facilities of their own. They can't really complain. The generate a lot of money but insist on enriching the small few instead of investing it in facilities.

I'd read Paul Kimmage last Sunday before moralising about spending money

You think the high profile managers in Dublin clubs are doing it solely for the love of the game? Or St Judes space age facilities as advertised recently and they aren't the only ones up there with jaw dropping facilities

TrueGael

Powerhouse wrote: »

Kilkenny had just five of the same players in the 2012 final as in 2006 so they were churning them out as much as anyone ever did. They too regressed organically.

Yes they have regressed organically they are hugely reliant on TJ Reid and very little else, the AI's they won in 2014 & 15 they had nowhere the best players and won due to others fearing them

Every great team in the GAA (Down, Galway 60's, Kerry, Dublin 70s, Offaly 80s Meath, Cork late 80s , Down 90's , Kerry, Tyrone , Armagh, Cork 00's all regressed organically once their time had come and neverhad 25-30 interchangeable players that they could replace seamlessly without suffering a drop of in performance - every one of them dependent on 18-20 players and 3/4 key ones pivotal to winning AI's

If we look at Mayo this decade, this was their team in 2011

Robert Hennelly; Tom Cunniffe, Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins; Richie Feeney, Donal Vaughan (0-3), Trevor Mortimer; Aidan O’Shea, Seamus O’Shea; Kevin McLoughlin, Alan Dillon, Andy Moran (0-2); Enda Varley (0-2), Alan Freeman, Cillian O’Connor (1-3). Subs: Ronan McGarrity for Seamus O’Shea, Lee Keegan (0-1) for Feeney, Aidan Campbell for Freeman, Jason Doherty for Varley.

Nearly all of the players used then have been key players for Mayo in the last 8 years and not peripheral squad players who never get a run, Dublin have had essentially 3 different teams since 2011 and there is no hint of fall-off or regression if anything the system is producing become more refined and churning out elite young players at higher rates as time moves on

BarryD2

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Ridiculous argument. They are merely administrative local govt areas, they could easily be changed in the future

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/

https://www.sdcc.ie/en/

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/

http://www.dublincity.ie/

These are ALL county councils - they administer areas which they consider counties.

They call themselves county councils e.g

Fingal County Council
County Hall
Main Street
Swords
County Dublin

etc etc

Therefore they are counties in every sense of the word just the same as Wicklow or Meath or Kildare or Mayo etc etc

Powerhouse

TrueGael wrote: »

I'd read Paul Kimmage last Sunday before moralising about spending money

You think the high profile managers in Dublin clubs are doing it solely for the love of the game? Or St Judes space age facilities as advertised recently and they aren't the only ones up there with jaw dropping facilities

I don't but at least the players can have a shower after training and Dublin don't have to go to other counties for pitches at certain times of the year.

odyssey06

BarryD2 wrote: »

They call themselves county councils e.g

Fingal County Council
County Hall
Main Street
Swords
County Dublin

etc etc

Therefore they are counties in every sense of the word just the same as Wicklow or Meath or Kildare or Mayo etc etc

There aren't counties in the most important sense of the word - ask someone in the Fingal administrative area, or South Dublin, or DLR what county they are living in and they will answer Dublin.

Maybe Ross O'Carroll-Kelly's mother would answer Dun Laoghaire Rathdown but she's not saying that with GAA in mind!

salmocab

BarryD2 wrote: »

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/

https://www.sdcc.ie/en/

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/

http://www.dublincity.ie/

These are ALL county councils - they administer areas which they consider counties.

They call themselves county councils e.g

Fingal County Council
County Hall
Main Street
Swords
County Dublin

etc etc

Therefore they are counties in every sense of the word just the same as Wicklow or Meath or Kildare or Mayo etc etc

So to bring this to it’s logical conclusion you’ll be happy to have the British government decide how the 6 northern counties should be split up?

Powerhouse

TrueGael wrote: »

Yes they have regressed organically they are hugely reliant on TJ Reid and very little else, the AI's they won in 2014 & 15 they had nowhere the best players and won due to others fearing them

Every great team in the GAA (Down, Galway 60's, Kerry, Dublin 70s, Offaly 80s Meath, Cork late 80s , Down 90's , Kerry, Tyrone , Armagh, Cork 00's all regressed organically once their time had come and neverhad 25-30 interchangeable players that they could replace seamlessly without suffering a drop of in performance - every one of them dependent on 18-20 players and 3/4 key ones pivotal to winning AI's

If we look at Mayo this decade, this was their team in 2011

Robert Hennelly; Tom Cunniffe, Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins; Richie Feeney, Donal Vaughan (0-3), Trevor Mortimer; Aidan O’Shea, Seamus O’Shea; Kevin McLoughlin, Alan Dillon, Andy Moran (0-2); Enda Varley (0-2), Alan Freeman, Cillian O’Connor (1-3). Subs: Ronan McGarrity for Seamus O’Shea, Lee Keegan (0-1) for Feeney, Aidan Campbell for Freeman, Jason Doherty for Varley.

Nearly all of the players used then have been key players for Mayo in the last 8 years and not peripheral squad players who never get a run, Dublin have had essentially 3 different teams since 2011 and there is no hint of fall-off or regression if anything the system is producing become more refined and churning out elite young players at higher rates as time moves on

You missed my point completely about Kilkenny. They had huge churn and got through a high number of players as well yet nobody talks about different teams/eras when discussing them. And then they regressed organically anyway when the players coming through were not good enough.

The matter of whether there's a hint of a fall-off with Dublin is impossible to discuss as those who can do will just deny any evidence but here goes.

In their last seven championship matches with Kerry and Mayo, Dublin drew twice, won by two points twice, by one point once, by three points another time and once by seven. Most of those margins are overturnable with slightly changed events during a game. Jason Doherty's failure to score a goal in the All-Ireland final last year which would have put Mayo in a hugely strong situation cannot be attributed to population or funding. Likewise Donal Vaughan's rush of blood which deprived Mayo of an extra man for a long period of the game cannot be attributed to population or funding. Some day a team will get these basics right and you will see fall-off with Dublin.

In a historical context this is arguably very competitive environment for such a successful team. Forty years ago Kerry won the All Ireland semi final and final by an average of 14 points. They had won the Munster semi-final by 25 points. A year later their All Ireland series average margin was 16 points and the Munster semi-final was won by 36 points.

And in case anyone claims it was just that it was a great Kerry team take a look at the Cork team in 1973 which won the Munster semi-final by 17 points the Munster final by 9, the All-Ireland semi-final by 15 and the final by 7.
I hope people are enjoying the cliff-hangers during the Dublin era because it was not always like that!

BonnieSituation

DONTMATTER wrote: »

They're perfectly set out for splitting. Those 4 teams would still have populations far higher than a lot of counties.

And not one person would support them bar a few in North Dublin who hold onto their "Fingal" identity and some in and around the "Borough" of Dún Laoghaire.

The idea of the county is so ingrained, for better or worse, in our identities, and it is largely because of the GAA that it is so. I mean, Andy Moran and others from Ballaghaderreen would never countenance the idea that they are Roscommon men no matter what the jurisdictional reality.

So to split Dublin in 4 will achieve what exactly?

I identify with none of the current LA's why would I do so in the event of a nonsensical split.

salmocab

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And not one person would support them bar a few in North Dublin who hold onto their "Fingal" identity and some in and around the "Borough" of Dún Laoghaire.

The idea of the county osingrained fir better it eurse in our identity and it is largely because of the GAA that it is so. I mean, Andy Moran and others from Ballaghaderreen would never countenance the idea that they are Roscommon men no matter what the jurisdictional reality.

So to split Dublin in 4 will achieve what exactly?

I identify with none of the current LA's why would I do so in the event of a nonsensical split.

I live in south Dublin and in a few years my son will be brought to a club in DLR as it’s the closest.
If asked where I’m from I’ve never said south Dublin.
People it would seem are also happy to see Dublin lads be the only ones denied s chance to play for their county.

Powerhouse

BarryD2 wrote: »

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/

https://www.sdcc.ie/en/

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/

http://www.dublincity.ie/

These are ALL county councils - they administer areas which they consider counties.

They call themselves county councils e.g

Fingal County Council
County Hall
Main Street
Swords
County Dublin

etc etc

Therefore they are counties in every sense of the word just the same as Wicklow or Meath or Kildare or Mayo etc etc

It’s gas that someone actually looked up the website of the various local authorities!! You have to love internet discussions!

BonnieSituation

Powerhouse wrote: »

It’s gas that someone actually looked up the website of the various local authorities!! You have to love internet discussions!

And it's funny that even in his response he failed to notice that Fingal list their address as "County Dublin" rather than "County Fingal"!

And I'm sure he's aware of the original proposal to call South Dublin, "Belgard" and "Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown" like "South Dublin" is a 24yo placeholder.

Also, I'm sure he's aware of the political atmosphere that led to the splitting of the old Dublin County Council which led to what we have, in 1994.

Coillte_Bhoy

BarryD2 wrote: »

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/

https://www.sdcc.ie/en/

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/

http://www.dublincity.ie/

These are ALL county councils - they administer areas which they consider counties.

They call themselves county councils e.g

Fingal County Council
County Hall
Main Street
Swords
County Dublin

etc etc

Therefore they are counties in every sense of the word just the same as Wicklow or Meath or Kildare or Mayo etc etc

Thats simply not true, its nonsense to suggest so

Dr. Bre

If dubs win the allireland hurling this year people on this thread will lose their minds

Coillte_Bhoy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And it's funny that even in his response he failed to notice that Fingal list their address as "County Dublin" rather than "County Fingal"!

And I'm sure he's aware of the original proposal to call South Dublin, "Belgard" and "Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown" like "South Dublin" is a 24yo placeholder.

Also, I'm sure he's aware of the political atmosphere that led to the splitting of the old Dublin County Council which led to what we have, in 1994.

:pac::pac::pac:

Charles Babbage

odyssey06 wrote: »

Debating tactic #1 - tar the people on the opposing side by reference to a different group.

Analogies are sometimes informative.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Debating tactic #2 - straight out insult the opposing side by describing the team they are defending as a "growing monster"

OK, then, growing elephant in the room.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Debating tactic #3 - "Nobody can realistically defend this." Dismiss without rebuttal all the opposing points by saying they are unrealistic.

I haven't seen anyone successfully defend having one team larger than the provinces. The main "defence" seems to be that Dublin supporters would not like it.

Nobody here is saying GAA development funding should be set in stone, but language like "growing monster" and "madness" is just going to get people's backs up. It would be better if we could hear some positive suggestions for how to strengthen Leinster football excluding Dublin, and some exact figures on how much say Kildare got... rather than the current empasis on stopping Dublin.

Fair point about the likes of Kildare stepping up to the plate. And the funding should be looked at in places like Belfast and Derry city also. The point is not really finding, though, it is population imbalance that is growing all the time.

TrueGael

Since the abolition of Dublin County Council in 1994, for local government it has been divided into four administrative areas: Dublin city, Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown, Fingal and South Dublin

Re:Powerhouse

Of course KK had a couple of different eras because you are talking about a 16 year period of dominance - you'd hardly expect them to have just 1 group of players spanning that length of time, even in their pomp 06-09 they used a grand total of 8 subs in the 4 finals

Of the 8 - 3 of them were presumably for injury in the 2007 final as they were all in the 1st half including Henry who had already scored a goal and they were well ahead

So even the greatest and most dominant Hurling team we are ever likely to see in our lifetimes had nowhere the depth of elite talent in the ranks that the Dublin Juggernaut have and will always will thanks to the overwhelming pick and development system

You always hear of teams in transition - this always means there is a relatively fallow period for at least 4/5 years up to potentially decades , Dublin have so many players they are able to be in 'transition' perpetually and their team never weakens because of the numbers of elite players churned out on such a ridiculous scale and the situation will become even moire entrenched as sponsors continue to pour money allied to he millions doled out by the GAA and the rapid increase in population that will happen in the decades to come while rural Ireland goes the other way

DEFTLEFTHAND

You can't punish a county for being successful.

Should KK have been split when they were dominating hurling?


This Dub generation have revitilised the game imo. They play a lovely brand of attractive football.


Far removed from the nordie puke of the 00s.


They should be praised not criticised.

salmocab

I think cork is two councils, a quick google suggests the 6 counties up north are split over 11 councils but I could well be wrong on that, good news for Kerry and Donegal I would think.

BarryD2

salmocab wrote: »

So to bring this to it’s logical conclusion you’ll be happy to have the British government decide how the 6 northern counties should be split up?

News for you - it was the Brits that brought in the shiring of territories and gave us the county system so beloved of the GAA today

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

You can't punish a county for being successful. Should KK have been split when they were dominating hurling?

Apples and oranges. Kilkenny is modestly populated county and always will be so. There would no logic at all in splitting KK for GAA.

Dublin is the economic and population powerhouse of the country and will continue to expand both in economy and population at a steady rate. The relative assets of say County Dublin and County Carlow or County Longford are vastly different. And yet the GAA puts them on a par. Madness.

If nothing is done about this, the loss will be the games themselves. You'd have to think that Dublin as it stands will dominate football for the future whilst they will steadily get a hold on hurling and come to dominate there as well.

BarryD2

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Thats simply not true, its nonsense to suggest so

Please explain why it's nonsense! Look up the websites - they call themselves County Councils, they have boundaries like counties, they function like all County Councils. They are County Councils.

You ask someone who grew up in the Liberties and I'd wager if you asked them where they came from, they wouldn't say County Dublin. They'd say Dublin or I'm a Dub, as in the city.

Whereas someone from say Rathcoole or Swords would identify more with Dublin County. So there's always been a divided identity like this.

Coillte_Bhoy

BarryD2 wrote: »

Please explain why it's nonsense! Look up the websites - they call themselves County Councils, they have boundaries like counties, they function like all County Councils. They are County Councils.

You ask someone who grew up in the Liberties and I'd wager if you asked them where they came from, they wouldn't say County Dublin. They'd say Dublin or I'm a Dub, as in the city.

Whereas someone from say Rathcoole or Swords would identify more with Dublin County. So there's always been a divided identity like this.

Yes they are county councils they are not counties as we traditionally understand them with hundreds of years of history, culture and shared identity. And there is no guarantee that these Dublin councils will remain unchanged fro too long. Boundaries will change in the future, some of these new councils will be expanded, condensed, amalgamated etc etc

Powerhouse

BarryD2 wrote: »

News for you - it was the Brits that brought in the shiring of territories and gave us the county system so beloved of the GAA today



Apples and oranges. Kilkenny is modestly populated county and always will be so. .

In hurling terms it is not modestly populated. There’s 100k people there, a figure not enhanced by colleges and the same level of transient population you get in bigger population centres. And does not have to share it resources with developing Gaelic football. Or share its population with othe4 sports and activities as large cities do. Of course population wise nowhere in the country is comparable to Dublin but in hurling terms Kilkenny are far from short of players. They have, for example, far greater numbers to call on than Galway which has a bigger population.

odyssey06

BarryD2 wrote: »

Please explain why it's nonsense! Look up the websites - they call themselves County Councils, they have boundaries like counties, they function like all County Councils. They are County Councils.
You ask someone who grew up in the Liberties and I'd wager if you asked them where they came from, they wouldn't say County Dublin. They'd say Dublin or I'm a Dub, as in the city.
Whereas someone from say Rathcoole or Swords would identify more with Dublin County. So there's always been a divided identity like this.

By you own admission Fingal as a county of identity is a nonsense.
It's nonsense because nobody says they are from DLR or South Dublin or Fingal. Nobody.
And nobody absolutely nobody, would describe someone as a Fingallian unless they play for that club.
Is anyone in GAA terms ever described as a Rathdowner?
To anyone from outside Dublin, they would be a Dub.

If you were asked what county you were from, you would have said Dublin. You'd have been laughed at if you came out with this county council angle because any other answer would have been ridiculous.
There is no divided identity except in your head. On Hill 16 there is no divided identity they all support Dublin. That goes for Pats of Donabate, Brigids, Erins Isle, Ballyboden, Ciarans and St Vincents - no matter how many lumps they knock out of each other in club games.

TrueGael

odyssey06 wrote: »

By you own admission Fingal as a county is a nonsense.
It's nonsense because nobody says they are from DLR or South Dublin or Fingal. Nobody.
If you were asked what county you were from, you would have said Dublin. You'd have been laughed at if you came out with this county council nonsense because any other answer would have been ridiculous.

Do county councils play sports? No.

There is no divided identity except in your head. On Hill 16 there is no divided identity they all support Dublin.

Yeah Southsiders and Northsiders never make fun of the other side, the million and a half of ye are all one big happy homogenized group

Imagine telling a sports fan from New York, Los Angeles, Sydney or London (where there are multiple sports teams in each city because of sheer population) that the region where there is a third (and growing) of the entire population field 1 team in a 32 team competition, they'd say it's bat**** mental and they'd be right

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

odyssey06

TrueGael wrote: »

Yeah Southsiders and Northsiders never make fun of the other side, the million and a half of ye are all one big happy homogenized group

That's just a local derby. No matter how small you draw the boundaries, lumps will be knocked out in club games - Vincents v Ciarans, Marino & Donneycarney are a poc fada apart. Their games are decidedly unfriendly.

Imagine telling a sports fan from New York, Los Angeles, Sydney or London (where there are multiple sports teams in each city because of sheer population) that the region where there is a third (and growing) of the entire population field 1 team in a 32 team competition, they'd say it's bat**** mental and they'd be right

England, France and Italy have 10 times the population each of Wales, Scotland and Ireland. That's a 6 team competition where 3 of the teams have 10 times the populations of the others. Yet in the last 20 years the teams with 5 million have won as many titles as the teams with 50 million.

Australia, South Africa and Argentina all have multiples of the population of New Zealand yet somehow New Zealand don't seem to be bothered at rugby at least.

If you add up the populations of all the other cricket test nations in the world, it doesn't come close to the population of India.

The USA has a population of 300 million. Costa Rica has 5 million. Do you want to explain to America Costa Rica are the reason they aren't at the soccer world cup this year?

When you've done that explain that the sport is an amateur game to the Yanks.

The american football team that once played in LA will now be playing in Las Vegas. Look at what happened when Wimbledon tried to move to Milton Keynes. In short sport has many local characteristics.

TrueGael

odyssey06 wrote: »

That's just a local derby. No matter how small you draw the boundaries, lumps will be knocked out in club games - Vincents v Ciarans, Marino & Donneycarney are a poc fada apart. Their games are decidedly unfriendly.



England, France and Italy have 10 times the population each of Wales, Scotland and Ireland. That's a 6 team competition where 3 of the teams have 10 times the populations of the others. Yet in the last 20 years the teams with 5 million have won as many titles as the teams with 50 million.

Australia, South Africa and Argentina all have multiples of the population of New Zealand yet somehow New Zealand don't seem to be bothered at rugby at least.
The USA has a population of 300 million. Costa Rica has 5 million. Do you want to explain to America Costa Rica are the reason they aren't at the soccer world cup this year?

When you've done that explain that the sport is an amateur game to the Yanks.

The american football team that once played in LA will now be playing in Las Vegas. Look at what happened when Wimbledon tried to move to Milton Keynes. In short sport has many local characteristics.

That is international sport and every country and sport you mentioned happen to be niche sports and nowhere among the most popular - Soccer in USA nowhere close to the Big 4, Rugby Union dying on it's feet in Australia and South Africa. Similarly in northern hemisphere in Italy rugby is a no-mark sport in comparison to soccer. England and France place a far stronger on club rugby which seriously impacts it's international performances

The Raiders are based in Oakland and only had a brief period in LA, the notion that any of the cities(who are nowhere as big and economically domineering as Dublin in relative terms to the country) I mentioned would have 1 team is ludicrous and they can't get their head round when I have told friends/relatives from abroad etc of the situation

odyssey06

TrueGael wrote: »

That is international sport and every country and sport you mentioned happen to be niche sports and nowhere among the most popular - Soccer in USA nowhere close to the Big 4, Rugby Union dying on it's feet in Australia and South Africa. Similarly in northern hemisphere in Italy rugby is a no-mark sport in comparison to soccer. England and France place a far stronger on club rugby which seriously impacts it's international performances

The Raiders are based in Oakland and only had a brief period in LA, the notion that any of the cities(who are nowhere as big and economically domineering as Dublin in relative terms to the country) I mentioned would have 1 team is ludicrous and they can't get their head round when I have told friends/relatives from abroad etc of the situation

All the examples I listed involved at least 1 sport played in the country the city is based in. The notion that sports fans in those countries couldn't get their head around population mismatches between geographic based sports is ludicrous. They might find the concept of an amateur sport where players play for club and county as bizarre, but that's a different story.

GAA at all ireland level is an amateur geography based sport. How relevant are Arsenal and Chelsea as professional teams - one of which is a publicly listed company owned by shareholders and the other has been bankrolled with hundreds of millions of oil money - to GAA?

Finally neither Dublin nor Cork nor Galway nor Belfast play as a city. They play as a county.

In rugby Dublin doesn't play as a city it plays as a province.