Should Dublin Football be split?

TrueGael

Dublin fans just don't want to hear or acknowledge they have any advantage whatsoever, doesn't matter what point you bring up or how detailed they'll blindly say black is white to defend this farce

it's all a miracle hallelujah all hail the miracle worker Jim Gavin how does he do it on such meagre and limited resources!!!! How does he cope having to overcome the disadvantage of having every game played at home!!!!!

There I'm on the bandwagon now

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

odyssey06

TrueGael wrote: »

Dublin fans just don't want to hear or acknowledge they have any advantage whatsoever, doesn't matter what point you bring up or how detailed they'll blindly say black is white to defend this farce

They have an advantage. But the point I'm making is that lots of other sports have teams with advantages but it doesn't invalidate the sport or the challenge of victory. India at cricket, England & France at rugby, Brazil at soccer.

Take Dublin out of it and look at the advantages Cork has in Munster or Galway in Connacht - they have nearly half the population in a 6 county competition.

Sport is not about equality. It's about glory, overcoming the odds or overcoming the weight of expectation on the favourites.

BarryD2

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And there is no guarantee that these Dublin councils will remain unchanged fro too long.

On the other hand, it is clear that many rural counties will lose population and clubs going forward whilst Dublin will gain. So it's all smoke and mirrors.

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's about glory, overcoming the odds or overcoming the weight of expectation on the favourites.

Try telling that to the likes of Carlow who in 130 years odd of the GAA have never won a single AI in either code and just one Leinster title in football and that many decades ago.

It's the like the church telling the poor not to worry in this life, 'because the poor will inherit the kingdom of heaven' etc. Meanwhile the rich feckers screw the poor in their life on earth.

BonnieSituation

BarryD2 wrote: »

On the other hand, it is clear that many rural counties will lose population and clubs going forward whilst Dublin will gain. So it's all smoke and mirrors.



Try telling that to the likes of Carlow who in 130 years odd of the GAA have never won a single AI in either code and just one Leinster title in football and that many decades ago.

It's the like the church telling the poor not to worry in this life, 'because the poor will inherit the kingdom of heaven' etc. Meanwhile the rich feckers screw the poor in their life on earth.

Wicklow haven't even won a provincial.

No Dubs are suggesting we don't have an advantage.

It's like all that shoite a few years ago where we kept on being told we don't travel. It's hard to travel when the other counties in your province vote to make you play at home in CP.

Give it a rest.

What's incumbent on the GAA is to make other counties come up to the level of Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal etc.

And I wouldn't be surprised to hear that any suggestions of help from Dublin would have been knocked back from Kildare and Mordor because of pride no doubt.

As much as I want to stand on the neck of Meath and Kerry and never see them win another game of tiddlywinks, nevermind football, you hardly think that we would want that in reality given it dilutes our achievements.

But likewise, did any Kerryman think that them getting to 6 AIs in a row from 2004-2009 without us doing a tap in the process dilutes their achievements? Do they f**k.

And right they are.

---

Identifying with our locality, be it Ballyfermot or Smithfield or Lucan or Stoneybatter is what makes us, but it's these identities that makes us Dubs.

The second that's taken away then to be perfectly honest you can shove your championship.

And I doubt I'm alone with that attitude.

odyssey06

BarryD2 wrote: »

Try telling that to the likes of Carlow who in 130 years odd of the GAA have never won a single AI in either code and just one Leinster title in football and that many decades ago.
It's the like the church telling the poor not to worry in this life, 'because the poor will inherit the kingdom of heaven' etc. Meanwhile the rich feckers screw the poor in their life on earth.

I think you are confusing sport with some sort of crusade for cosmic social justice!

Carlow haven't won an All Ireland in 130 years. Splitting Dublin in 2 or 4 won't change that. The only thing that might is some sort of US style draft system - which would be impossible in an amateur sport and is probably only possible in the unique US collegiate setup.

Glory doesn't come necessarily from winning. Ireland didn't win the World Cup in Italia 90, and we likely never will - but we celebrated the glory of exceeding expectations and putting everything on the line and going as far as body and mind would allow.

munster87

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Wicklow haven't even won a provincial.

No Dubs are suggesting we don't have an advantage.

It's like all that shoite a few years ago where we kept on being told we don't travel. It's hard to travel when the other counties in your province vote to make you play at home in CP.

Give it a rest.

What's incumbent on the GAA is to make other counties come up to the level of Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal etc.

And I wouldn't be surprised to hear that any suggestions of help from Dublin would have been knocked back from Kildare and Mordor because of pride no doubt.

As much as I want to stand on the neck of Meath and Kerry and never see them win another game of tiddlywinks, nevermind football, you hardly think that we would want that in reality given it dilutes our achievements.

But likewise, did any Kerryman think that them getting to 6 AIs in a row from 2004-2009 without us doing a tap in the process dilutes their achievements? Do they f**k.

And right they are.

---

Identifying with our locality, be it Ballyfermot or Smithfield or Lucan or Stoneybatter is what makes us, but it's these identities that makes us Dubs.

The second that's taken away then to be perfectly honest you can shove your championship.

And I doubt I'm alone with that attitude.

Did you know there are more tiddlywinks counters in Dublin than any other county? How are we even to compete?

harpsman

blanch152 wrote: »

You have to leave out 1975 to get that statistic from Kerry. In order to do the same with Dublin, you would have to leave out 2011 which was Gilroy's team, not Gavin's.

Furthermore, it is now a 21 or 22-man game, and there is similar variance between the 2013 Gavin team and the current team as seen in the Kerry team of the 1970s/80s. Of the 20 players used by Gavin in the 2013 All-Ireland final, 15 saw action in the 2017 All-Ireland final. That is a similar percentage to the 11 out of 15 you quote. If you include MacAuley and Daly who were on the bench, but didn't feature, you have 17 of the 20 used in 2013 still involved. Of the three who are gone, Bastick and Brennan have retired, while O'Carroll is off in New Zealand. Hardly a radical changing of the guard.

For 2018, Connolly is the only one of that 2013 team who can be added to the list of definite departures, and hopefully it is only temporary. O'Gara hasn't featured yet and may not. Brogan, O'Sullivan and McCaffrey will feature once they recover from long-term injuries, so I would expect at least 15 of the 20 involved in 2013 to play a part in the 2018 campaign. With Connolly returning next year, that could go up to 16 in 2019.

Fair point. I thought there was more changes than that but I stand corrected. In which case I agree this is the GOAT.

BonnieSituation

munster87 wrote: »

Did you know there are more tiddlywinks counters in Dublin than any other county? How are we even to compete?

You never had a chance.

Even with the standard of tiddlywinks in Lixnaw you don't have a chance. As virtuous as your attempts to succeed might be.

TrueGael

There was a documentary on Dublin winning the Leinster title 2005 (cant remember what it was called) and the players and fans were absolutely delighted to win that yet people on here will have you believe that what is happening now has always been the way

2005! Not exactly ancient history or from the black and white days!

munster87

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You never had a chance.

Even with the standard of tiddlywinks in Lixnaw you don't have a chance. As virtuous as your attempts to succeed might be.

Lixnaw, the unofficial home of tiddlywinks

TrueGael

odyssey06 wrote: »

I think you are confusing sport with some sort of crusade for cosmic social justice!

Carlow haven't won an All Ireland in 130 years. Splitting Dublin in 2 or 4 won't change that. The only thing that might is some sort of US style draft system - which would be impossible in an amateur sport and is probably only possible in the unique US collegiate setup.

Glory doesn't come necessarily from winning. Ireland didn't win the World Cup in Italia 90, and we likely never will - but we celebrated the glory of exceeding expectations and putting everything on the line and going as far as body and mind would allow.

Yes you're right it's not all about the winning but seeing your team get devoured constantly by the same team drains interest in the sport (for kids and adults alike) and breeds apathy that pushes players from bothering to commit (Just 6 Westmeath players there this year after the 30+ slaughter last year) and talented young athletes will pick other sports where ritual hammerings isn't the ultimate reward



This has already happened in Leinster and will eventually happen on a national scale (already is). You'll never have 32 equal counties, yes but after the Blue Behemoth the next 8-10 counties are all on a even level playing field the very smallest unfortunately will never reach last 4 last 8 stage but still having 10-12 teams that can the main prize is a lot heather than 1 winning it 90% of the time

while Hurling where there is only 8/9 serious counties all have dreams of competing on a big stage without dread of inevitable slaughterings

Dr. Bre

TrueGael wrote: »

Dublin fans just don't want to hear or acknowledge they have any advantage whatsoever, doesn't matter what point you bring up or how detailed they'll blindly say black is white to defend this farce

it's all a miracle hallelujah all hail the miracle worker Jim Gavin how does he do it on such meagre and limited resources!!!! How does he cope having to overcome the disadvantage of having every game played at home!!!!!

There I'm on the bandwagon now

Well if Croke Park wasn’t in Dublin it would be somewhere else obviously in Ireland and that team would hve home advantage all the time! So what ya suggest?

blanch152

BarryD2 wrote: »

Try telling that to the likes of Carlow who in 130 years odd of the GAA have never won a single AI in either code and just one Leinster title in football and that many decades ago.

It's the like the church telling the poor not to worry in this life, 'because the poor will inherit the kingdom of heaven' etc. Meanwhile the rich feckers screw the poor in their life on earth.

Splitting up Dublin does nothing for Carlow or Wicklow. You can easily spot the Mayo and Kerry supporters who are cheerleading this everytime it comes up on these boards. Special pleading is all it is.

Vita nova

No definitely not! We shouldn't punish a team or area because they are successful, rather, we should try to make others more successful. Instead of dividing Co. Dublin, the GAA should be encouraging the less successful counties to combine. Otherwise, good players from the more sparsely populated counties will have no chance of reaching the pinnacle of their sport.

The existing county structure was imposed on us from outside, it doesn't serve us well from a sporting or economic point of view. The GAA could be in the vanguard of encouraging change and then perhaps some counties might see the benefit of combining in areas other than sport.

Coillte_Bhoy

Vita nova wrote: »

No definitely not! We shouldn't punish a team or area because they are successful, rather, we should try to make others more successful. Instead of dividing Co. Dublin, the GAA should be encouraging the less successful counties to combine. Otherwise, good players from the more sparsely populated counties will have no chance of reaching the pinnacle of their sport.

The existing county structure was imposed on us from outside, it doesn't serve us well from a sporting or economic point of view. The GAA could be in the vanguard of encouraging change and then perhaps some counties might see the benefit of combining in areas other than sport.

Ah now, lets not blame the Brits for this. In the early years of the GAA it was club sides that were the reps of the counties.

Coillte_Bhoy

Allt he talk of Wicklow, Carlow, Longord etc etc not being able to compete withe Dubs is nonsense, they havent been able to compete at the top level EVER, regardless of how strong Dublin was or wasnt. That aint changing anytime soon. What is ridiculous is the cship structure that puts all these teams on the same level. Do like every county does and indeed every major sport in the world and have a tiered cship. See Carlow for example, great buzz around them at the moment, imagine them having a crack at and winning a Div 2 or B cship whatever you want to call it and then earning the right to compete on the Sam Maguire the following year. Imagine what that would do for the promotion of games in the county, week in week out major exposure in the media etc etc

Oh and dont give me that ****e about players deserving the chance to test themselves against best. if the likes of Leitrim want to play Mayo then they have to earn that right and im dam sure that if a Leitrim team were going well in the lower tiers with a chance to get in among the big boys we wouldnt hear as much about the 'star' players heading to the US every summer

Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree. I think they should look at the funding model fair enough but otherwise i think too many counties are feeling sorry for themselves. Carlow are the opposite of this at the moment. They are focused on what they are good at and have a real team spirit within the squad

Stoner

Deleted User wrote:

I agree. I think they should look at the funding model fair enough but otherwise i think too many counties are feeling sorry for themselves. Carlow are the opposite of this at the moment. They are focused on what they are good at and have a real team spirit within the squad

You lost him at Carlow Tipp

Stoner

Stoner wrote: »

You lost him at Carlow Tipp

Im under no illusions that Carlow sadly havent a hope of winning even Leinster but at least they are not beaten before they start. I think the small counties should get an extra few bob though to help them out

Vita nova

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Ah now, lets not blame the Brits for this. In the early years of the GAA it was club sides that were the reps of the counties.

Nah, it's just a bit ironic that the GAA sticks so rigidly to a county structure that was created by the Normans, HenryVIII of England and subsequent British monarchs when such a structure does not serve modern Ireland well from a sporting or economic point of view. Besides, there was a lot more in my original post than the one line you chose to comment on.
.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

DONTMATTER

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And not one person would support them bar a few in North Dublin who hold onto their "Fingal" identity and some in and around the "Borough" of Dún Laoghaire.

The idea of the county is so ingrained, for better or worse, in our identities, and it is largely because of the GAA that it is so. I mean, Andy Moran and others from Ballaghaderreen would never countenance the idea that they are Roscommon men no matter what the jurisdictional reality.

So to split Dublin in 4 will achieve what exactly?

I identify with none of the current LA's why would I do so in the event of a nonsensical split.

Well it won't be anyone else's fault. Dublin Gaa took the money, continue to take the money and refuse to stop taking the money. What are the rest of us supposed to do? Allow them to continue as a professional entity while GAA dies in other counties? Something has to be done.

DONTMATTER

TrueGael wrote: »

Dublin fans just don't want to hear or acknowledge they have any advantage whatsoever, doesn't matter what point you bring up or how detailed they'll blindly say black is white to defend this farce

it's all a miracle hallelujah all hail the miracle worker Jim Gavin how does he do it on such meagre and limited resources!!!! How does he cope having to overcome the disadvantage of having every game played at home!!!!!

There I'm on the bandwagon now

That's why the decision has to be taken away from them. It's up to the rest of us to put an end to the financial doping. The Dublin county board and Dublin Gaa supporters in general, are the most self entitled group you can come across.

DONTMATTER

odyssey06 wrote: »

They have an advantage. But the point I'm making is that lots of other sports have teams with advantages but it doesn't invalidate the sport or the challenge of victory. India at cricket, England & France at rugby, Brazil at soccer.

Take Dublin out of it and look at the advantages Cork has in Munster or Galway in Connacht - they have nearly half the population in a 6 county competition.

Sport is not about equality. It's about glory, overcoming the odds or overcoming the weight of expectation on the favourites.

Why are you comparing international professional sports to a domestic amateur (in 31 counties) sport?

DONTMATTER

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Wicklow haven't even won a provincial.

No Dubs are suggesting we don't have an advantage.

It's like all that shoite a few years ago where we kept on being told we don't travel. It's hard to travel when the other counties in your province vote to make you play at home in CP.

Give it a rest.

What's incumbent on the GAA is to make other counties come up to the level of Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal etc.

And I wouldn't be surprised to hear that any suggestions of help from Dublin would have been knocked back from Kildare and Mordor because of pride no doubt.

As much as I want to stand on the neck of Meath and Kerry and never see them win another game of tiddlywinks, nevermind football, you hardly think that we would want that in reality given it dilutes our achievements.

But likewise, did any Kerryman think that them getting to 6 AIs in a row from 2004-2009 without us doing a tap in the process dilutes their achievements? Do they f**k.

And right they are.

---

Identifying with our locality, be it Ballyfermot or Smithfield or Lucan or Stoneybatter is what makes us, but it's these identities that makes us Dubs.

The second that's taken away then to be perfectly honest you can shove your championship.

And I doubt I'm alone with that attitude.

"You can shove your championship"

It's interesting, many players and supporters from other counties are saying the same thing now but no Dublin supporter seems to care.

DONTMATTER

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Well if Croke Park wasn’t in Dublin it would be somewhere else obviously in Ireland and that team would hve home advantage all the time! So what ya suggest?

Am, that doesn't make sense, every other county plays away games. Dublin still haven't had an away game since 2006!!

DONTMATTER

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Allt he talk of Wicklow, Carlow, Longord etc etc not being able to compete withe Dubs is nonsense, they havent been able to compete at the top level EVER, regardless of how strong Dublin was or wasnt. That aint changing anytime soon. What is ridiculous is the cship structure that puts all these teams on the same level. Do like every county does and indeed every major sport in the world and have a tiered cship. See Carlow for example, great buzz around them at the moment, imagine them having a crack at and winning a Div 2 or B cship whatever you want to call it and then earning the right to compete on the Sam Maguire the following year. Imagine what that would do for the promotion of games in the county, week in week out major exposure in the media etc etc

Oh and dont give me that ****e about players deserving the chance to test themselves against best. if the likes of Leitrim want to play Mayo then they have to earn that right and im dam sure that if a Leitrim team were going well in the lower tiers with a chance to get in among the big boys we wouldnt hear as much about the 'star' players heading to the US every summer

How many Joe mcdonagh cup games have you seen on TV this year?

machiavellianme

odyssey06 wrote: »

It should be laughed at.

To use an example from other sports Portugal (10m) beat France (60m) in France in the 2016 European Championship soccer final, their first ever title.

Had they lost and urged FIFA to split up France they'd have become a global laughing stock.

To look at it another way, when Yugoslavia split into several new countries, they didn't continue to compete under the former combined and far more successful team. The same happened with Czechoslovakia.
France hasn't split into multiple countries as far as I'm aware, so why should the team be split?

BonnieSituation

DONTMATTER wrote: »

That's why the decision has to be taken away from them. It's up to the rest of us to put an end to the financial doping. The Dublin county board and Dublin Gaa supporters in general, are the most self entitled group you can come across.

U ok Hun?

I'm guessing you never met a Corkman.

---

What are your solutions for our financial doping?

BonnieSituation

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Am, that doesn't make sense, every other county plays away games. Dublin still haven't had an away game since 2006!!

I could have sworn I was in Port Laoise a couple of weeks ago...

Patser

Why not combine a few counties instead. As others have said above, Carlow, Wicklow, Longford and the likes have never really ever had a chance of successfully winning the Championship, so why not make a combined Southeast team of Wexford/Carlow/Wicklow, stick Offaly and Laois together (sure they look like ying and yang anyway) maybe throw in Longford. Reunify Meath, tear down that wall! Maybe add Louth too. Kildare? No one really cares about Kildare, they've their own civil wars to fight.

Sure club players complain about too many matches in the championship, and Leinster has too many counties anyway compared to other provinces.

It's no more a silly idea than splitting Dublin.

BonnieSituation

DONTMATTER wrote: »

"You can shove your championship"

It's interesting, many players and supporters from other counties are saying the same thing now but no Dublin supporter seems to care.

You do know that I and others, support Dublin by virtue of being from there right?

It's not some sort of glory hunting job

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Coillte_Bhoy

Vita nova wrote: »

Nah, it's just a bit ironic that the GAA sticks so rigidly to a county structure that was created by the Normans, HenryVIII of England and subsequent British monarchs when such a structure does not serve modern Ireland well from a sporting or economic point of view. Besides, there was a lot more in my original post than the one line you chose to comment on.
.

Indeed there was and i would largely agree with most of it.

Patser

Patww79 wrote: »

True. Both are equally silly.

Yep, but we don't have an annual 'debate' about combining teams.

Coillte_Bhoy

DONTMATTER wrote: »

How many Joe mcdonagh cup games have you seen on TV this year?

Im not sure what your point is?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

BonnieSituation

The worst thing we can do is acknowledge it and make a thread

DONTMATTER

BonnieSituation wrote: »

U ok Hun?

I'm guessing you never met a Corkman.

---

What are your solutions for our financial doping?

You're worse than cork men!

Read the thread for solutions.

DONTMATTER

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I could have sworn I was in Port Laoise a couple of weeks ago...

You've been playing at home for so long that you don't even know what an away game is!

DONTMATTER

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You do know that I and others, support Dublin by virtue of being from there right?

It's not some sort of glory hunting job

What's that got to do with your utter contempt for the health of Gaelic Games in other counties?

BonnieSituation

DONTMATTER wrote: »

You've been playing at home for so long that you don't even know what an away game is!

Hmmm... Explain to me so?

Playing in Port Laoise or Kilkenny isn't an away game?

DONTMATTER wrote: »

You're worse than cork men!

Read the thread for solutions.

The only solution I've seen s "split Dublin".

But you seem to have all the ideas.

Lay out your manifesto?

DONTMATTER

Patser wrote: »

Yep, but we don't have an annual 'debate' about combining teams.

Also every other county doesn't have an annual 1.5 million coming to them to develop players.

DONTMATTER

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Im not sure what your point is?

The B championship would be exactly the same.

BonnieSituation

DONTMATTER wrote: »

What's that got to do with your utter contempt for the health of Gaelic Games in other counties?

How are you getting that i have uttered contempt for GAA in other counties?

I have utter contempt at people posting shoite and complaining about something and offering no solution.

BonnieSituation

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Also every other county doesn't have an annual 1.5 million coming to them to develop players.

And ever other county doesn't have 1.5million people and rugby, soccer, cricket, athletics, running and cycling to contend with either.

machiavellianme

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Hmmm... Explain to me so?

Playing in Port Laoise or Kilkenny isn't an away game?



The only solution I've seen s "split Dublin".

But you seem to have all the ideas.

Lay out your manifesto?

Playing in Portlaoise against Laois would be an away game.
Playing in Portlaoise against Wicklow would be a neutral venue.

DONTMATTER

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Hmmm... Explain to me so?

Playing in Port Laoise or Kilkenny isn't an away game?



The only solution I've seen s "split Dublin".

But you seem to have all the ideas.

Lay out your manifesto?

No. An away game would be playing wicklow in wicklow, playing Carlow in Carlow, playing Laois in Laois.

Splitting Dublin is a good start, we can work from there.