The Jews can revive a dead language reserved for ceremonial purposes

Professor Moriarty

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Both cohorts should be treated with the respect they deserve and be ignored.

valoren

Reviving an all but extinct language is entirely in keeping with this morbid fascination of Ireland with isolation.
We got conquered by the British, we emigrated to English speaking countries, their dominant language won out. Just deal with it. That's how the chips fell.

The Irish language is no longer a productive entity. Important to remember yes, necessary to thrive, no. It is a cultural, historical one and this endeavor to revive it and the idea of it actually becoming our dominant language again is backwards thinking at best, deluded at worst more appropriate to the De Valera notion of an Ireland with the cailín's dancing at the crossroads.

LeinsterDub

RandomName2 wrote: »

You may have to make some words up in your transaltion, as Irish isn't a living language, but that seems to be pretty standard practice

monkey = moncaí

Sure it does.

You may have to make some words up in your transaltion, as English isn't a living language, but that seems to be pretty standard practice

battalion, dragoon, soldier, marine, grenadier, guard, officer, infantry, cavalry, army, artillery, corvette, musketeer, carabineer, pistol, fusilier, squad, squadron, platoon, brigade, corps, sortie, reconnaissance/reconnoitre, surrender, surveillance, rendezvous, espionage, volley, siege, terrain, troop, camouflage, logistics, matériel, accoutrements, bivouac, latrine, aide-de-camp, legionnaire, morale, esprit de corps, cordon sanitaire. See also military ranks: corporal, sergeant, lieutenant, captain, colonel, general, admiral. baba au rhum, beef, beef bourguignon, boudin, caramel, casserole, cassoulet, clafoutis, confit, consommé, cream, croissant, custard, foie gras, flognarde, fondant, fondue, gateau, gratin, marmalade, mayonnaise, meringue, mille-feuille, mustard, mutton, navarin, pâté, pastry, petit four, pork, ragout, roux, salad, sauce, sausage, soufflé, stew, terrine, trifle, veal.

Sure they are .


I only speak pure Anglish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIo-17SIkws

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

wexie

RandomName2 wrote: »

I'm not sure about Dutch but I'm skeptical. I'm not aware of the Netherlands ever having Spanish as a main language.

Maybe a historian (or someone with more time or interest to google this) might come along and prove me wrong.

But as far as I'm concerned that simply didn't happen. I grew up speaking Dutch and there isn't a trace of Spanish in the language from what I can tell and you'd be hard pressed to find many remnants of Spanish culture.

More so French if anything (napoleon)

From what I recall the oppression was more of a religious rather than a linguistic nature. There are a number of rivers roughly dissecting Holland north/south which is more or less how far the Spanish got. Broadly speaking everything below the rivers it Catholic and everything above the rivers is protestant. (we just never went round killing each other over it )

This is all from memory so I may well have it wrong (I don't think I do though). Holland has a pretty complicated history and has existed in many different forms under many different names. (like United Kingdom of the Netherlands )

farmerwifelet

Peig - the ramblings of a senile horrible old woman immortalised because it was Irish. Until this is removed from the curriculum and a broader range brought in you are fighting a failing battle. We have to lose the poor Irish we had it so hard mentality it is not relevant. If you want to bring back Irish make it fun and usable or let it die. Sometimes culture moves on. I find the entrenched attitudes of Irish revivalists completely off putting. This notion that if you don't speak Irish fluently and want everyone to do so you are some sort of traitor and selling out our heritage is sad.

Until people can critically look at our selves and our history and accept that we have some good and bad and just because it is Irish it is not always good then we have ourselves a failure to communicate.

Professor Moriarty

valoren wrote: »

Reviving an all but extinct language is entirely in keeping with this morbid fascination of Ireland with isolation.
We got conquered by the British, we emigrated to English speaking countries, their dominant language won out. Just deal with it. That's how the chips fell.

The Irish language is no longer a productive entity. Important to remember yes, necessary to thrive, no. It is a cultural, historical one and this endeavor to revive it and the idea of it actually becoming our dominant language again is backwards thinking at best, deluded at worst more appropriate to the De Valera notion of an Ireland with the cailín's dancing at the crossroads.

A lot of things are no longer 'productive' but warrant being taught and learnt. History springs to mind. I couldn't be arsed getting into a debate about compulsory Irish but I very much think for Irish children to have no grounding in the language would be wrong.

kazamo

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Just disappointed the OP wasnt 'as Gaeilge'

If he had posted "as Gaeilge" there wouldn't be 104 replies, more likely 2-3 of which one will probably point out some grammatical error made by OP.

wexie

RandomName2 wrote: »

I think you'll find (if you ever have the compulsion to do research) that countries like the Netherlands and Sweden (countries with languages that noone besides themselves speak) all have to be able to speak English in order to function in the modern world (granted that it's not their official language, but it's compulsory in school and 86% of the population speak it).

I would imagine that percentage to be higher at this stage. I started learning English at age 12 (first year of secondary school) and I'm pretty sure that has now been brought down to either 6 or 8. Also all english and american TV in Holland (there's a lot) isn't dubbed (I'm not sure why, always assumed that the market wouldn't be big enough but the population is about 17 million at this stage) so kids pick up an awful lot of english just from watching tv.

As an aside, subtitles are a great way to help learn a language.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

farmerwifelet wrote: »

Peig - the ramblings of a senile horrible old woman immortalised because it was Irish. Until this is removed from the curriculum and a broader range brought in you are fighting a failing battle. We have to lose the poor Irish we had it so hard mentality it is not relevant. If you want to bring back Irish make it fun and usable or let it die. Sometimes culture moves on. I find the entrenched attitudes of Irish revivalists completely off putting. This notion that if you don't speak Irish fluently and want everyone to do so you are some sort of traitor and selling out our heritage is sad.

Until people can critically look at our selves and our history and accept that we have some good and bad and just because it is Irish it is not always good then we have ourselves a failure to communicate.

Pretty sure it has been. Although probably replaced with something just as pointless and depressing, as whoever sets the syllabus has no more idea on how to facilitate a revival via education than my neighbour's cat.

LeinsterDub

farmerwifelet wrote: »

Peig - the ramblings of a senile horrible old woman immortalised because it was Irish. Until this is removed from the curriculum and a broader range brought in you are fighting a failing battle.

Happened nearly 20 years ago .

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-irish-syllabus-gets-a-shot-of-realism-26131037.html

Jesus some people need information spoon fed to them.

farmerwifelet

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Happened nearly 20 years ago .

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-irish-syllabus-gets-a-shot-of-realism-26131037.html

Jesus some people need information spoon fed to them.

I missed that!!
it is a step in the right direction but i am not sure a heroin addict is the best replacement either.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

RandomName2

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You may have to make some words up in your transaltion, as English isn't a living language

I only speak pure Anglish.

There's never been any pretense that half of English is composed of Germanic words, and half composed of French words. English was forced on the Anglo-Saxons and British by Normans, and as such is a weird combination of the two languages, with basic words being Germanic, and more complicated (prestigious) words being French.

Mind you, that was back in the 11th/12th centuries

It's very different from some department issuing statements saying that the word taxi (which stands for taximeter cab) should be referred to as tacsaí in Irish

wexie wrote: »

I would imagine that percentage to be higher at this stage.

Yes, sorry, that percentage was specifically for Sweden! I do think it's higher for Netherlands

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Happened nearly 20 years ago .

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-irish-syllabus-gets-a-shot-of-realism-26131037.html

Jesus some people need information spoon fed to them.

Oh yes, the cringe fest of the legislators trying to be hip with talk about 'na drugaí'. The problem is that there isn't a body of literature in the language to fall back on, because it wasn't a written language until about the 18th century, and by that stage it was almost dead. The written language of the Catholic Church in Ireland was always Latin.

LeinsterDub

RandomName2 wrote: »

It's very different from some department issuing statements saying that the word taxi (which stands for taximeter cab) should be referred to as tacsaí in Irish

Loan words need to be changed to maintain the grammatical rules of the language.
Some of these are imposed by some department Rothar.
Some like Selfie take an English concept and give you féinín
Some are naturally invented like Brexit Breatimeacht

English is still borrowing words to this day https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26014925
Loan words in a language indicate it's still active and developing
The French have a whole department for dictating new words

LeinsterDub

RandomName2 wrote: »

Oh yes, the cringe fest of the legislators trying to be hip with talk about 'na drugaí'. The problem is that there isn't a body of literature in the language to fall back on, because it wasn't a written language until about the 18th century, and by that stage it was almost dead. The written language of the Catholic Church in Ireland was always Latin.

Not a single book https://www.litriocht.com

Professor Moriarty

RandomName2 wrote: »

There's never been any pretense that half of English is composed of Germanic words, and half composed of French words. English was forced on the Anglo-Saxons and British by Normans, and as such is a weird combination of the two languages, with basic words being Germanic, and more complicated (prestigious) words being French.

Mind you, that was back in the 11th/12th centuries

It's very different from some department issuing statements saying that the word taxi (which stands for taximeter cab) should be referred to as tacsaí in Irish




Yes, sorry, that percentage was specifically for Sweden! I do think it's higher for Netherlands



Oh yes, the cringe fest of the legislators trying to be hip with talk about 'na drugaí'. The problem is that there isn't a body of literature in the language to fall back on, because it wasn't a written language until about the 18th century, and by that stage it was almost dead. The written language of the Catholic Church in Ireland was always Latin.

That's incorrect. There are many books and documents written in Irish stretching back as far as the 11th century and it appears in annotations on manuscripts as far back as the 5th century. Ogham stones were also written in old Irish. In fact, Irish has the distinction of being the first vernacular Northern European language to be written down. Also, Irish remained the first language of the large majority in Ireland until the 19th century.

odyssey06

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's incorrect. There are many books and documents written in Irish stretching back as far as the 11th century and it appears in annotations on manuscripts as far back as the 5th century. Ogham stones were also written in old Irish. In fact, Irish has the distinction of being the first vernacular Northern European language to be written down. Also, Irish remained the first language of the large majority in Ireland until the 19th century.

Is that really body of literature though? How much of it was actually being read in the 18th and early 19th century by that large majority in Ireland - or even its literate class?

It's telling that the Book of Kells is in Latin. One of the great drivers for literacy in Protestant countries was translations of the Bible into the local language.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

farmerwifelet wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

If the person writing the source material had experience of heroin it might, but I'm guessing that's not the case. Something a bit more light-hearted would be a better option. Modern day Barrytown Trilogy kinda thing.

One way or the other, I seriously feel that the whole point of secondary level Irish is not to facilitate any sort of a revival, t's - like every other subject, to be fair - purely to get points for a college application.

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

A wee bit long, don't you think?! Also, I think something written in original Irish by someone a) who knows kids/teenagers, b) can write and c) can keep the language relatively simple. Not sure if such a person exists though (or, if they did, would ever be approached in the first place).

Professor Moriarty

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is that really body of literature though? How much of it was actually being read in the 18th and early 19th century by that large majority in Ireland?

It's telling that the Book of Kells is in Latin. One of the great drivers for literacy in Protestant countries was translations of the Bible into the local language.

What are books and documents if not a body of literature? Anyway, I doubt if much was being written or read in Irish by the 18th century considering English domination had been completed by 1700 and the large majority of Irish people would have been illiterate.

My point was in response to the bizarre assertion that Irish "wasn't a written language until about the 18th century, and by that stage it was almost dead."

feargale

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You will find nothing in my posts which contradicts this. I am simply advocating mutual respect. You will not find any reference by me to "West Brits" or "800 years of oppression". As you say it cuts both ways.
It's a pity that both sides in this don't take a look at how other Western European countries deal with their language minorities.

Taytoland

So it's in decline in the Republic and here in East Belfast we are trying to revive it with people all over learning it here. This is more anti Irish language from the Irish Republic.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Taytoland wrote: »

So it's in decline in the Republic and here in East Belfast we are trying to revive it with people all over learning it here. This is more anti Irish language from the Irish Republic.

At least read a few posts before you post: the reasons for said decline have been stated often enough, but I suppose it takes less effort to read nothing and type "anti Irish language" and stroll off again.

RandomName2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's incorrect. There are many books and documents written in Irish stretching back as far as the 11th century and it appears in annotations on manuscripts as far back as the 5th century.

We have a few. There's Pangur Bán. But Irish culture was predominantly an oral tradition. People educated enough to write were almost exclusively either in the Church, or from non-Irish speaking areas. Almost exclusively isn't the same as exclusively, but it's close.

Old English also has a dearth of surviving work. Beowulf and not a huge amount else.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In fact, Irish has the distinction of being the first vernacular Northern European language to be written down.

That's debatable, to be sure. I'm not very familiar with the ogham stones but their runic nature makes me think a Scandinavian (Viking settler?) connection.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

My point was in response to the bizarre assertion that Irish "wasn't a written language until about the 18th century, and by that stage it was almost dead."

Yep, almost dead, seeing as we're speaking in the region of millenia. Old English was almost dead by the 12th century. Pictish was almost killed off by Gaelic languages by about the 10th century. Pictish also wasn't a written language, which is one of the reasons for it now being extinct.

This is very understandable - writing is a difficult technology to master, and printing even more so. The creation of books has typically cost vast sums. It's a pity that Gaelic Ireland never became rich enough, or technologically advanced enough that it produced a substantial body of work in the language, by artists and historians.

Taytoland wrote: »

So it's in decline in the Republic and here in East Belfast we are trying to revive it with people all over learning it here. This is more anti Irish language from the Irish Republic.

The way in which militant republicans and ultra-nationalists have worn the language like a flag has done more to harm the language than anything. Speak cupla focal and carry an armalite.

odyssey06

RandomName2 wrote: »

The way in which militant republicans and ultra-nationalists have worn the language like a flag has done more to harm the language than anything. Speak cupla focal and carry an armalite.

And to the cause of a united Ireland... the English language is a bridge between the two communities.
Any suggestion that a united Ireland must also be a gaelic speaking Ireland is only going to keep the two communities further apart.

LeinsterDub

odyssey06 wrote: »

And to the cause of a united Ireland... the English language is a bridge between the two communities.
Any suggestion that a united Ireland must also be a gaelic speaking Ireland is only going to keep the two communities further apart.

The Irish language is also acting as a bridge. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056380205

Is anyone seriously suggesting a Irish speaking United Ireland ?

DEFTLEFTHAND

odyssey06 wrote: »

And to the cause of a united Ireland... the English language is a bridge between the two communities.
Any suggestion that a united Ireland must also be a gaelic speaking Ireland is only going to keep the two communities further apart.

Unionism had links to the language also. It was actually spoken in certain communities 100 yrs ago. Even paramilitary groups like the Red Hand Commandos used an Irish language motto, 'Laimh Dearg Abu'.

The PUP ran Irish language classes for Unionists in east Belfast recently and decent interest was shown. Their goal was to revive interest and educate people on the history between the two.

JohnKyle39

We pay lip service to it as it is part of our culture and heritage yet nobody can be bothered to speak it. We hate the idea of losing the language but are unwilling to put any effort into saving it.

We cling to our Irish identity and resent being confused with the English but we are reluctant to put the effort into reviving and saving it.

It's so bizzare.

Mutant z

Who's stopping anyone from learning Irish this militant attitude about forcing it on everyone is counterproductive and certainly won't help its revival.

Taytoland

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

odyssey06 wrote: »

And to the cause of a united Ireland... the English language is a bridge between the two communities.
Any suggestion that a united Ireland must also be a gaelic speaking Ireland is only going to keep the two communities further apart.

Unionism had links to the language also. It was actually spoken in certain communities 100 yrs ago. Even paramilitary groups like the Red Hand Commandos used an Irish language motto, 'Laimh Dearg Abu'.

The PUP ran Irish language classes for Unionists in east Belfast recently and decent interest was shown. Their goal was to revive interest and educate people on the history between the two.

You have nationalists going into East Belfast for Irish language classes. It's a bit mad but a revival is under way in the Unionist community on the language and it's all done out of curiosity and enjoyment and not forced on anyone. As time goes on you might have a lot of Prods learning it.

Donald Trump

Taytoland wrote: »

You have nationalists going into East Belfast for Irish language classes. It's a bit mad but a revival is under way in the Unionist community on the language and it's all done out of curiosity and enjoyment and not forced on anyone. As time goes on you might have a lot of Prods learning it.

Curry my yoghurt.

Ipso

Taytoland wrote: »

You have nationalists going into East Belfast for Irish language classes. It's a bit mad but a revival is under way in the Unionist community on the language and it's all done out of curiosity and enjoyment and not forced on anyone. As time goes on you might have a lot of Prods learning it.

Their ancestors spoke Gaelic, so not too mad.

_Kaiser_

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

We can't revive our own language, and choose to speak the language of a nation that caused us 700 years of oppression

Why?

Let's see...

- 800 years anti-Brit nonsense... check
- Irish language rant... check

Others have already explained why both of these attitudes are counter-productive, but for what it's worth...

Irish is of no practical value to anyone in 2018 beyond as a novelty, and that's fine.. by all means, feel free to learn it if you wish, send your kids to Gaeltact schools so they can too etc.

But PLEASE.. get over this resentment that it didn't survive (like many other languages throughout history) into modern everyday Ireland and stop trying to force it onto those who have no interest in it.

As for the "Anti-Brit" stuff.. back in those days that WAS how countries expanded - the strong conquered the weak - and pretty much every major European power was at it at the time. You can't rewrite or ignore history to suit a "modern" narrative, and you can be damn sure that if fate had played out differently, the Irish would have been out raping, pillaging and seizing territory with the rest of them!

ohnonotgmail

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Let's see...

- 800 years anti-Brit nonsense... check
- Irish language rant... check

Others have already explained why both of these attitudes are counter-productive, but for what it's worth...

Irish is of no practical value to anyone in 2018 beyond as a novelty, and that's fine.. by all means, feel free to learn it if you wish, send your kids to Gaeltact schools so they can too etc.

But PLEASE.. get over this resentment that it didn't survive (like many other languages throughout history) into modern everyday Ireland and stop trying to force it onto those who have no interest in it.

As for the "Anti-Brit" stuff.. back in those days that WAS how countries expanded - the strong conquered the weak - and pretty much every major European power was at it at the time. You can't rewrite or ignore history to suit a "modern" narrative, and you can be damn sure that if fate had played out differently, the Irish would have been out raping, pillaging and seizing territory with the rest of them!

given how many irish people have served in the british army down through the years that is exactly what we did do.

odyssey06

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Is anyone seriously suggesting a Irish speaking United Ireland ?

The OP?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The Irish language is also acting as a bridge. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056380205

Is anyone seriously suggesting a Irish speaking United Ireland ?

You'd have to be a bit delusional (not to mention slightly fascist) to think that's possible.

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

We pay lip service to it as it is part of our culture and heritage yet nobody can be bothered to speak it. We hate the idea of losing the language but are unwilling to put any effort into saving it.

We cling to our Irish identity and resent being confused with the English but we are reluctant to put the effort into reviving and saving it.

It's so bizzare.

So, John, how much Irish do YOU Speak?

Taytoland wrote: »

You have nationalists going into East Belfast for Irish language classes. It's a bit mad but a revival is under way in the Unionist community on the language and it's all done out of curiosity and enjoyment and not forced on anyone. As time goes on you might have a lot of Prods learning it.

Which is fair enough, but, as I said before, you biggest problem isn't anti-Irish, it's pure indifference. What do you suggest (seeing as you started the thread) to overcome this?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So, John, how much Irish do YOU Speak?

How is that relevant? Not being proficient with a musical instrument shouldn't prevent one liking Irish traditional music.

Which is fair enough, but, as I said before, you biggest problem isn't anti-Irish, it's pure indifference. What do you suggest (seeing as you started the thread) to overcome this?

8% of primary schools teach in the Irish medium, but 23% of parents would like to send their child to a gaelscoil if it was available according to an ESRI study, so you're tad wide of the mark with that.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/more-gaelscoileanna-must-be-opened-to-breathe-life-into-irish-1.3424365

hatrickpatrick

The problem with the Irish language is remarkably simple to fix, therefore it must be assumed that there are those who simply refuse to contemplate this for political or ideological reasons. Purge the entire course of any and all "living in the middle of nowhere is so lonely and depressing" bullsh!t literature and watch level of disengagement plummet overnight.

RandomName2

Deleted User wrote: »

How is that relevant? Not being proficient with a musical instrument shouldn't prevent one liking Irish traditional music.

Don't you mean deriding everyone who doesn't know and play Irish traditional music, and saying that they are 'weak, lazy and submissive' for not being able to play that music? This has never been about people's personal choices, but about making it compulsory in schools, in the media, on all literature produced by the state, and having billions spent on it.

Deleted User wrote: »

8% of primary schools teach in the Irish medium, but 23% of parents would like to send their child to a gaelscoil if it was available according to an ESRI study, so you're tad wide of the mark with that.

I wonder how many of that 23% are doing it purely because of the love of the language, and not more pragmatic reasons, such as the quality of teaching in those schools, and the fact that their children will have to become fluent in the language if they ultimately want to get into any high point course at third level.

wexie

RandomName2 wrote: »

I wonder how many of that 23% are doing it purely because of the love of the language, and not more pragmatic reasons, such as the quality of teaching in those schools, and the fact that their children will have to become fluent in the language if they ultimately want to get into any high point course at third level.

I for one would be pretty confident that number of 23% would drop dramatically if people had an option to send their kids to a school that would see their children bilingual in a language the kids might actually use outside of the country, french, spanish, chinese whatever.

Zubeneschamali

RandomName2 wrote: »

I wonder how many of that 23% are doing it purely because of the love of the language

How many are doing it because Irish scares off knackers, immigrants and riffraff generally?

RandomName2

RandomName2 wrote: »

Don't you mean.....

No I don't actually.

wexie

wexie wrote: »

I for one would be pretty confident that number of 23% would drop dramatically if people had an option to send their kids to a school that would see their children bilingual in a language the kids might actually use outside of the country, french, spanish, chinese whatever.

A wild guess I take it, since such a very thing is being piloted in Gaelscoileanna.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/children-in-gaelscoileanna-to-learn-foreign-languages-1.3298859

ohnonotgmail

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

How many are doing it because Irish scares off knackers, immigrants and riffraff generally?

There are immigrants in gaelscoils as well. It is not restricted to just the true born sons of eire.

VinLieger

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

They've been teaching it the same way for decades and are still doing it. We had to read stupid stories to learn it. Why can't it be taught like a normal language?Why won't people take a hint and realize that it isn't working?

We need to take a leaf out of Wales book and do it the way they do.

The people involved in the welsh revival came over and gave advice like stopping making it mandatory and teach it as spone instead of by rote, people like yourself obsessed with 800 years etc didnt like their advice and sent them packing

VinLieger

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

They've been teaching it the same way for decades and are still doing it. We had to read stupid stories to learn it. Why can't it be taught like a normal language?Why won't people take a hint and realize that it isn't working?

We need to take a leaf out of Wales book and do it the way they do.

The people involved in the welsh revival came over and gave advice like stopping making it mandatory and teach it as a spoken language instead of by rote, people like yourself obsessed with 800 years etc didnt like their advice and sent them packing

VinLieger

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

They've been teaching it the same way for decades and are still doing it. We had to read stupid stories to learn it. Why can't it be taught like a normal language?Why won't people take a hint and realize that it isn't working?

We need to take a leaf out of Wales book and do it the way they do.

The people involved in the welsh revival came over and gave advice like stopping making it mandatory and teach it as a spoken language instead of by rote, people like yourself obsessed with 800 years etc didnt like their advice and sent them packing

Professor Moriarty

RandomName2 wrote: »

We have a few. There's Pangur Bán. But Irish culture was predominantly an oral
tradition. People educated enough to write were almost exclusively either in the
Church, or from non-Irish speaking areas. Almost exclusively isn't the same as
exclusively, but it's close.

Almost all cultures were predominantly oral in their tradition until a couple of centuries ago. A poster said that Irish wasn't a written language until 200 years ago. That's completely untrue. I'm not sure what point you're making?

Old English also has a dearth of surviving work. Beowulf and not a huge amount
else.

Well, no. For instance, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle predates Beowulf by 150 years. Anyway there are lots of manuscripts, documents and books written in English in the past 1000 years that survive to this day. Far more than Irish. However, Irish has been written down since the 8th century and especially so since the 11th century.

That's debatable, to be sure. I'm not very familiar with the ogham stones but
their runic nature makes me think a Scandinavian (Viking settler?) connection.

No, Ogham predates Runes.

Yep, almost dead, seeing as we're speaking in the region of millenia. Old
English was almost dead by the 12th century. Pictish was almost killed off by
Gaelic languages by about the 10th century. Pictish also wasn't a written
language, which is one of the reasons for it now being extinct.

I don't see the relevance of Pictish or Old English. Irish was not "almost dead" by 1800. In 1840, there were 4,000,000 people whose mother tongue was Irish.

This is very understandable - writing is a difficult technology to master, and
printing even more so. The creation of books has typically cost vast sums. It's
a pity that Gaelic Ireland never became rich enough, or technologically advanced
enough that it produced a substantial body of work in the language, by artists
and historians

.

True by comparison to England and other major European powers. Though there was more Irish books and documents than is commonly known. This site is well worth visiting.

wexie

Deleted User wrote: »

A wild guess I take it, since such a very thing is being piloted in Gaelscoileanna.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/children-in-gaelscoileanna-to-learn-foreign-languages-1.3298859

you appreciate of course you're proving me right?

right?

wexie

wexie wrote: »

you appreciate of course you're proving me right?

right?

Its the Gaelscoil who’s offering it though, which was my original point.