customer unable to pay for petrol

notacrackpot · 08-06-2018 10:40am #1

Hello,
Yesterday, I had a customer come into the petrol station to pay for petrol and another product. Only had the contactless phone app no money otherwise (the store doesn't have contactless). Got him to fill out the drive off form (he didn't get the other product) after finding out when he can come back in to pay it. customer left before I could inform the manager.
However, I got in trouble for doing this, as it "wasn't a charity, if you don't have the money don't give him the product." Ended up paying for the petrol (said I'll get it back if he comes back in to pay it and if I didn't I'd lose my job).
I can't see what else I could've done. This is petrol not bread, not like we can siphon it out. Other co-workers have done what I've done in similar situations and it's mixed results sometimes pay, other times no. What else could I have done or was I bull****ted out of money (which I suspect)? I plan to get the manager each time a scenario like this occurs whenever possible

08-06-2018 10:42am

How important is this job to you?

Your manager shouldn't do this but it has come up here before.

TheBlock · 08-06-2018 10:45am

Did you ask the Boss what they expect you to do if this situation occurs again? Is this a Large Company is there no procedure for this? Are the allowed to make an employee pay for this? It sounds very dodgy to me.

Where do you work I fancy getting a full tank of petrol on you

nikkibikki · 08-06-2018 10:51am

Ask your boss what the procedure is if it happens again. And tell him to get a new machine that'll take contactless. I've been in the customers situation a few times in shops. Only had the phone on me. I can't think of one place that doesn't have contactless nowadays, especially fuel stations.

OMM 0000 · 08-06-2018 10:53am

I agree with TheBlock.

This kind of thing (customer can't pay) seems like something which should be escalated to a manager.

You made a mistake. It's ok. Use it as a life lesson.

When you're older and working in an office, we have a concept called "Cover Your Ass". In a nutshell, you are always trying to protect yourself. "Could I get in trouble for this? Yes. OK, let me e-mail the manager and wait for her to confirm, in writing, that I should proceed. Until then I wait." Etc.

notacrackpot · 08-06-2018 10:54am

He didn't exactly gave me a chance to let me ask questions, just to listen what happened.
the only thing we have is a drive off form.
I'm not sure if they're allowed, it says nothing about this in the contract.
lol

notacrackpot · 08-06-2018 10:59am

my job isn't hugely important but I do need to raise money for a course I plan to enroll in. I'm already looking at other jobs

CeilingFly · 08-06-2018 11:02am

so a customer can't pay and you don't get a supervisor / manager.

Default position if its a situation where you don't know what to do is to move it to someone who can.

Possibly this was a scam and you'll never see the money - or it could have been genuine. (I reckon it was a scam) and its in a way correct that you are out of pocket (I assume under €30).

A manager would have been able to deal with it differently - get customer to call someone who can give card details by phone.

listermint · 08-06-2018 11:04am

Customer may come back today. Hold tight. But clarify with management what they require to do in future

Supercell · 08-06-2018 11:08am

OP your manager seems pretty mean to me.
FWIW something similar happened to me however in this case I was the customer.
I was hugely embarrassed of course, the person behind the till was very nice and suggested that I leave my wallet or one of the cards in it with them and they would give it back on return with the funds. They said it nicely, I felt it wasn't unreasonable in the circumstances and it all worked out fine. Maybe a suggestion if there is a next time?

Atlantic Dawn · 08-06-2018 11:12am

Next time take the spare wheel or customers mobile as security until they come back.

Reati · 08-06-2018 11:14am

This thread comes up a bit doesn't it?

Mikenesson · 08-06-2018 11:21am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Next time take the spare wheel or customers mobile as security until they come back.

I thought they used to take the driving license as security?

Mrcaramelchoc · 08-06-2018 11:24am

heres what you ll do. leave the job and go abroad.for the next six years train in every martial art there is and learn how to handle weapons of every kind.loose tons of weight and muscle up.come back armed to the teeth blow the **** out of the petrol station and surrounding townlands.then hunt down that customer and get your money back.
simple.

Riskymove · 08-06-2018 11:32am

the usual approach is call guards

I know someone who got petreol and when went in to pay discovered had no purse in bag

explained, gave options including leaving collateral, driving licence etc . while went and got money but no guards called and details taken

I guess they have had people not return and pay in such circumstances

Dixie Chick · 08-06-2018 11:36am

This used to happen in a garage my friend worked in and the Guards would be called to ring the customer if they had not returned in 24 hours.

It is a common occurrence, I would leave a job that would make me pay for something like this esp when there is no procedure there on how to deal with it.

cruizer101 · 08-06-2018 11:41am

When you say you got him to fill in drive off form what do you mean?
Is that a form you fill in if a customer drives off, why did he fill it in then? or is it something else.
When did he say he would come back, I'd be on to the guards if not back by then.
Surely owner has insurance against what is in this case theft, you should not be out of money, what did manager expect you to do.

BarryD2 · 08-06-2018 11:46am

notacrackpot wrote: »

I'm already looking at other jobs

That's the pay back - if / when you leave, make sure you communicate this event to the owners and advise them to treat their staff with more respect. That's if they want staff.

raddo · 08-06-2018 11:58am

More than a few years ago, my wife was working in a petrol station.
Customer filled car, came into the shop and said that he had forgotten his wallet.
Asked if he had anything to leave while he was away.
Hold on a moment he says, goes out to the car and brings in his girlfriend.
He left her there while he went and got money, she was ready to murder him!
Doubt that relationship lasted much longer!!

Muppet Man · 08-06-2018 12:27pm

I was that custmer one time. The lad on the till got panicky, and called the manager and he was fine about the whole thing. Had to fill in a form with a load of details and he asked for some form of ID which he took a photocopy of. I think I gave him a swipe card from work or something... he was pretty cool about it to be honest and told me not to rush back.

My sense is your manager over reacted a bit, or maybe its been happening a lot and they are being targetted for that sort of carry on. Having a formal process/procedure in place will avoid the awkward manager conversation afterwards (so long as you follow the formal procedure!

)

Muppet Man

mloc123 · 08-06-2018 12:31pm

If I only have contactless payment method on me... I would stick my head in to the shop first and ask if they accept it before I filled up...

I worked in a garage years ago, it happened a bit.. hence why garages garages make you prepay now. What can you do tho, take the fuel back?

my3cents · 08-06-2018 12:32pm

I hope there is a sign on the pumps saying sorry we don't accept contactless payment?

s7ryf3925pivug · 08-06-2018 12:35pm

Unless you were told at some point to handle this differently then it's a training issue and on them, not you. Ordering you to pay is bullying and possibly worse. You could look up one of those free legal advice centres. Or meet it head on and ask him to out it in writing that you need to pay. Does the manager own the place? Find out who to complain to in the organisation if not.

RossieMan · 08-06-2018 12:43pm

It's not mandatory to take contactless.

Customer should always check first.

LionelNashe · 08-06-2018 12:45pm

notacrackpot wrote: »

...Ended up paying for the petrol (said I'll get it back if he comes back in to pay it and if I didn't I'd lose my job)....

This is the part where I disagree with the manager - he can't make you pay for the petrol AND fire you if the guy doesn't come back in. Making you pay should be enough.

And, there should have been clear instructions left for this situation, and if there weren't, you should have called the manager to deal with it.

Glass fused light · 08-06-2018 12:47pm

Get looking for a new job ASAP. This is something which should have been covered in your training. If it was not then that is a failing of your manager. If the pump is not prepay you should not have been asked to paid for the fuel nor be threatened with being sacked over this.

If you are in the position that the customer is going to leave and a manger is not available then you should have informed the customer that you dont have the authority to allow them credit and if they leave your only option would be to call the Gardai. If the manager was not on the premises you could not physically detain the person, until the manage became back. if the manage was on the premises you should have gotten the manager first and not tried to deal with this yourself but still could not stop the customer from leaving.

You need to get clear instructions as to how to deal with this, but make it clear that you won't be making any other payments.

Glass fused light · 08-06-2018 12:52pm

Zelda Flat Carp wrote: »

Unless you were told at some point to handle this differently then it's a training issue and on them, not you. Ordering you to pay is bullying and possibly worse. You could look up one of those free legal advice centres. Or meet it head on and ask him to out it in writing that you need to pay. Does the manager own the place? Find out who to complain to in the organisation if not.

It would be viewed as a deduction from wages if the employee has no provision in the contract to allow this it's viewed as an illegal.
Depending on the value of the fuel the company could have problems as it could bring the wages under the minimum wage too.

The op is entitled to a recipe for the deduction too

Lyle Lanley · 08-06-2018 12:53pm

Dixie Chick wrote: »

This used to happen in a garage my friend worked in and the Guards would be called to ring the customer if they had not returned in 24 hours.

You can't call the guards if you allowed them to leave, only if they drove off without paying.

OP always get the manager. If they're not around the customer will have to wait for them. Don't give the customer any sympathy either, he went and filled up his car when he had no money on him..

Klopp · 08-06-2018 12:53pm

What is the purpose of the 'Drive off form you got the customer to fill out and complete? If it is in situations like this than you followed the process and training provided, your Manager is out of order. If the form is not fit for purpose, the form should be removed and new process should be introduced to all staff. The Manager needs to take some responsibility and inform all staff and retrain staff on whatever new proposal he or the company decides.

Guffy · 08-06-2018 12:53pm

Op do you work for a chain or and independant retailer?

This happens all the time. General policy we have here is take the details, license number (not license), reg, phone number (ring it to make sure if you are suspicious) and name. Get an estimated time of when they can come back and if they dont show rung the guards who can follow it up.

Your manager was bang out of order intimidating yoy into paying.

Lyle Lanley · 08-06-2018 12:54pm

OMM 0000 wrote: »

When you're older and working in an office, .

Do you assume this is a natural progression? Bit weird, no?

Guffy · 08-06-2018 12:55pm

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

You can't call the guards if you allowed them to leave, only if they drove off without paying.

OP always get the manager. If they're not around the customer will have to wait for them. Don't give the customer any sympathy either, he went and filled up his car when he had no money on him..

That's not true.

You can't call the guards if you forget to ask them for fuel and they dont pay. But believe me whether you did or didn't you have always asked them for fuel.

Mickeroo · 08-06-2018 12:57pm

Drive off/no means to pay are pretty standard procedures on forecourts,if it's not the shop's policy to do them then the tills shouldn't have the functionality configured.

kev1.3s · 08-06-2018 12:58pm

RossieMan wrote: »

It's not mandatory to take contactless.

Customer should always check first.

Its not unreasonable to assume a reasonably modern petrol station will have contactless payment. It happened to me lately in a tesco petrol sration, teller was very polite but refused to allow me to leave until someone payed for the fuel, I told him I could read him the numbers and he could put it in manually which he refused I also told him I'd leave collateral which he refused, in the end I had to get a friend drive the 25 miles to pay the bill.
I know rhat technically it was my fault but surely some of the blame must lie on tescos shoulders, if this is a common occurrence then surely it would be easier to put up a sign stating that there is no contactless available.

Glass fused light · 08-06-2018 1:13pm

kev1.3s wrote: »

Its not unreasonable to assume a reasonably modern petrol station will have contactless payment. It happened to me lately in a tesco petrol sration, teller was very polite but refused to allow me to leave until someone payed for the fuel, I told him I could read him the numbers and he could put it in manually which he refused I also told him I'd leave collateral which he refused, in the end I had to get a friend drive the 25 miles to pay the bill.
I know rhat technically it was my fault but surely some of the blame must lie on tescos shoulders, if this is a common occurrence then surely it would be easier to put up a sign stating that there is no contactless available.

I have been in places which did not take credit cards mostly down the county but if it's new tech the onus is on the buyer to check the payment method.

kev1.3s · 08-06-2018 1:38pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

I have been in places which did not take credit cards mostly down the county but if it's new tech the onus is on the buyer to check the payment method.

Contactless is hardly considered new tech. I know petrol stations that dont take cards for sure But I would almost expect modern ones to take them. Its not very difficult for stations that dont offer this service to display it on top of the pumps.

drunkmonkey · 08-06-2018 1:40pm

Reati wrote: »

This thread comes up a bit doesn't it?

As long as people think it's ok to give away other people's things for for free without asking permission it won't be the last.

I'd be charging op for the fuel and yes it's perfect legal. They didn't ask permission or advice. It's now his debt.

yabadabado · 08-06-2018 1:46pm

A lesson learned OP but next day you are working get the manager to put it in writing what the correct procedure is.

Hopefully the customer returns and you arent out of pocket.

TheChizler · 08-06-2018 1:55pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

As long as people think it's ok to give away other people's things for for free without asking permission it won't be the last.

I'd be charging op for the fuel and yes it's perfect legal. They didn't ask permission or advice. It's now his debt.

Strange logic, are you saying the OP accepted the customer's debt as they didn't apprehend the customer until the manager arrived. The OP would have been acting illegally by preventing them from leaving. Pumped petrol is a debt owed once the customer provided their details, not a criminal matter like stealing.

An Ri rua · 08-06-2018 2:04pm

They can't legally take a deduction from your wages. Payment of Wages Act.
They could fire you, for gross negligence, if they treat your error the same as they have treated other similar errors. If not, they haven't a leg to stand on.

TheChizler · 08-06-2018 2:10pm

Am I the only person missing where the OP made an error, or what it was? The customer left before they could, for whatever reason, get the manager. How is this negligence?

CeilingFly · 08-06-2018 2:12pm

An Ri rua wrote: »

They can't legally take a deduction from your wages. Payment of Wages Act.
They could fire you, for gross negligence, if they treat your error the same as they have treated other similar errors. If not, they haven't a leg to stand on.

They didn't deduct it. OP was given option to pay voluntarily or the other option was that the job was finished. If he'she paid and the customer returned, they'd get the money back.

Assuming the OP is working there less than a year, he/she can be let go without reason.

At the end of the day, if in doubt you call your manager.

Jimbob1977 · 08-06-2018 2:13pm

Take collateral..... like a watch

Something they have to return for

drunkmonkey · 08-06-2018 2:13pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Strange logic, are you saying the OP accepted the customer's debt as they didn't apprehend the customer until the manager arrived. The OP would have been acting illegally by preventing them from leaving. Pumped petrol is a debt owed once the customer provided their details, not a criminal matter like stealing.

I'm saying he gave away goods for free without asking anyone, if he has an issue paying for it just fire his ass. Company will probably take it in the chin the first time, any more dumb moves and he's gone though.
If in doubt ask and you'll always be ok.
It is a criminal matter if the customer doesn't pay. He's just been scammed.

TheChizler · 08-06-2018 2:16pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm saying he gave away goods for free without asking anyone, if he has an issue paying for it just fire his ass. Company will probably take it in the chin the first time, any more dumb moves and he's gone though.
If in doubt ask and you'll always be ok.
It is a criminal matter if the customer doesn't pay. He's just been scammed.

Where did they give goods away for free? And they were asking, the customer left before they could get in contact with the manager.

It's a criminal matter if the customer had no intent of paying. They came in to pay, realized they couldn't then left their details. Unless those details were fake then I don't know how you can prove they had no intent to pay.

drunkmonkey · 08-06-2018 2:18pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Take collateral..... like a watch

Something they have to return for

Or get them to do an online transfer on their phone, rubbish excuse to say they only had their phone so can't pay.
They also have their card details on the app and could manually give the details. Customer knew exactly what they were doing. Easy fool fresh staff.

dixiefly · 08-06-2018 2:19pm

Question for the OP...

What details of the customer did you get, i.e. name, address etc?
Did you get any confirmation (cards etc) as to the correctness of those details?
Did you get the licence plate of the car?

If you haven't got some pretty decent details then put this down as a life lesson and hope that the customer is honest and returns with the money.

Either way ask / insist on the manager providing a procedure for this and similar cases.

An Ri rua · 08-06-2018 2:19pm

drunkmonkey wrote:

I'd be charging op for the fuel and yes it's perfect legal. They didn't ask permission or advice. It's now his debt.

CeilingFly wrote:

They didn't deduct it. OP was given option to pay voluntarily or the other option was that the job was finished. If he'she paid and the customer returned, they'd get the money back.

CeilingFly wrote:

Assuming the OP is working there less than a year, he/she can be let go without reason.

CeilingFly wrote:

At the end of the day, if in doubt you call your manager.

I think a WRC would find differently. That's a deduction of wages in the servant master relationship. And you are 100% incorrect.

Mikenesson · 08-06-2018 2:19pm

Just don't take the watch..

That can be part of the scam too

drunkmonkey · 08-06-2018 2:21pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Where did they give goods away for free? And they were asking, the customer left before they could get in contact with the manager.

They didn't take any means of payment, did they ring the phone number to verify they got a real number before they left.
The customer should have staid until someone was contacted. End of story one ok let them out without paying it's on his head. That's the number 1 part of his job.

TheChizler · 08-06-2018 2:22pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They also have their card details on the app and could manually give the details.

Google Pay certainly doesn't, and I don't think Apple Pay does either, provide the card details of the virtual card used. Any Irish bank I know either doesn't provide card details in app. Revolut and N26 do but it's a stretch to assume what the customer was using.

Customer knew exactly what they were doing. Easy fool fresh staff.

I really hope the OP updates us soon when the situation has been resolved! You've made a fairly solid prediction there!

customer unable to pay for petrol

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