Boy 14 Killed After Car He Was Driving Crashed in Donegal

jackofalltrades

RIP to the young lad.

Billy86 wrote: »

It's grand, he wasn't black, Muslim or a traveler so the usual suspects have and will continue to move on in disappointment after scouring the link in the OP.

Using a thread about a kid dying to score points, you stay classy.:rolleyes:

irish_goat

Can't speak for the rest of the country but I grew up outside Buncrana and it was standard practice for teenagers to drive on the road before getting their licence. The town has, afaik, the highest pass rate in the country and part of that has to be down to the fact that people are driving around for months before taking the test.

Billy86

jackofalltrades wrote: »

RIP to the young lad.

Using a thread about a kid dying to score points, you stay classy.:rolleyes:

Not 'scoring' any points, just saying the thread thankfully shouldn't descend into a cesspit as is often the case in these threads, in response to a post concerned that "I can't see this thread going anywhere good in this cesspit."

dublinman1990

That is terrible news. I don't know too much about driving on private lands myself. But his family must be thinking about how their young fella had so much to live for & died in such a tragic end for all concerned. R.I.P.

The Backwards Man

irish_goat wrote: »

Can't speak for the rest of the country but I grew up outside Buncrana and it was standard practice for teenagers to drive on the road before getting their licence. The town has, afaik, the highest pass rate in the country and part of that has to be down to the fact that people are driving around for months before taking the test.

Not so sure about that. I can only speak anecdotally, but I knew all there was to know about driving before I was 17, failed the test first time because the tester wasn't as experienced as I was, took a couple of lessons and passed the second time. Everyone I know up here that passed first time took lessons, everybody who already knew how to drive failed first time.

Good instructors and a handy then enough route for the test are the reasons for the high pass rate, rallying stock cars and rolling silage pits not so much.

Trasna1

retro:electro wrote: »

“Donegal strikes again”

Well that’s a really stupid thing to say. This could have happened anywhere.
RIP to the young lad.

It could have happened anywhere but it didn't. Another tragic road death in Donegal. Again.

When it comes to tragedy on the roads, Donegal is in the headlines with unfortunate regularity.

The Backwards Man

Trasna1 wrote: »

It could have happened anywhere but it didn't. Another tragic road death in Donegal. Again.

When it comes to tragedy on the roads, Donegal is in the headlines with unfortunate regularity.

Donegal has 7000 km of the total 100000ish km of roads in the country.

So far this year, 5 fatalities out of 65 nationally.

So, 7% of the fatalities on 7% of the roads, which is way too high, 1 is too high. But this 'Donegal again' bollocks has to stop. We don't elect politicians that condone road deaths like they do in Kerry, Tipperary, and elsewhere.

Rikand

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There was a poor lady killed driving a tractor lawnmower yesterday too, you don't have to be speeding to get into difficulty.

We need to teach people how to drive ride on mowers from an early age so tragedies like this can be avoided in future

irish_goat

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Not so sure about that. I can only speak anecdotally, but I knew all there was to know about driving before I was 17, failed the test first time because the tester wasn't as experienced as I was, took a couple of lessons and passed the second time. Everyone I know up here that passed first time took lessons, everybody who already knew how to drive failed first time.

Good instructors and a handy then enough route for the test are the reasons for the high pass rate, rallying stock cars and rolling silage pits not so much.

Sorry am I reading this right? You did your test and failed first time because you think you were a better driver than the man/woman qualified to judge your driving skills? Is this not the problem we're talking about? Teenage drivers being overconfident when they get behind the wheel...

The route is handy but plenty of other smalls town would have a handy route as well.

GarIT

I'm interested in the legal side of this. As far as I know if you lend someone your vehicle knowing they are uninsured your insurance can be made pay up and you can lose your NCB. In other countries it is definitely the case but I'm not sure about Ireland, that if you allow an unlicensed driver drive your vehicle you can be convicted of whatever they did or at least convicted of assisting them.

Imprisoning anyone wouldn't help anything in this situation but I think the vehicle owner should mabe receive a criminal conviction and an suspended sentence if they allowed the 14 year old to drive their vehicle on a public road.

I'm unsure if I think the parents should receive any sanction, separate to the above. Maybe it should be considered if they knowingly allowed a 14 year old to drive on a public road especially if they have other children.

The Backwards Man

irish_goat wrote: »

Sorry am I reading this right? You did your test and failed first time because you think you were a better driver than the man/woman qualified to judge your driving skills? Is this not the problem we're talking about? Teenage drivers being overconfident when they get behind the wheel...

The route is handy but plenty of other smalls town would have a handy route as well.

You need to read it again. When I thought I knew it all, I didn't. Most of us learn that we will never know it all, some aren't so lucky.

GarIT

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Donegal has 7000 km of the total 100000ish km of roads in the country.

So far this year, 5 fatalities out of 65 nationally.

So, 7% of the fatalities on 7% of the roads, which is way too high, 1 is too high. But this 'Donegal again' bollocks has to stop. We don't elect politicians that condone road deaths like they do in Kerry, Tipperary, and elsewhere.

I mostly agree with what you are saying but something interesting which they probably aren't numbers for is if donegal has a higher number of accidents with underage drivers. I live in Dublin but the attitudes I've experienced in the west to driving are very different. Growing up here I've heard of some 16 year olds driving and maybe a 15 year old but I'm not sure, out west I know 12-13 year old that learned on a farm but will now drive a couple of hundred meters on an almost private but still public road to his grannys to collect bread and bring her eggs and maybe for some other things. I knew of a 14 year old of an ethnic community driving themselves to school and a good few 15 and 16 year olds. I don't think they would happen in Dublin probably as they see other drivers as hazardous but often the road itself is the most dangerous aspect especially in some extremely rural areas.

irish_goat

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You need to read it again. When I thought I knew it all, I didn't. Most of us learn that we will never know it all, some aren't so lucky.

I don't think you've written your original post correctly, but the point stands, teenagers up here are overconfident.

PARlance

irish_goat wrote: »

Can't speak for the rest of the country but I grew up outside Buncrana and it was standard practice for teenagers to drive on the road before getting their licence. The town has, afaik, the highest pass rate in the country and part of that has to be down to the fact that people are driving around for months before taking the test.

Ah well, as long as there's a high percentage passing their tests we'll ignore the major issue with young drivers dying on the roads in the County.

Donegal is a real black spot. My own Mayo isn't a whole lot better. The most dangerous drivers are the youngsters who are actually quite "good" drivers imo, good and having no fear is not a good combination.

RIP to the young lad. I don't know the circumstances but I'm guessing he wasn't practising a 3 point turn. That is harsh, a 14 year old dying is incredibly harsh. People need to change their attitudes in these areas.

Edit: Didn't see your other posts. Took up your original one up wrong. My other point stands though.

The Backwards Man

irish_goat wrote: »

I don't think you've written your original post correctly, but the point stands, teenagers up here are overconfident.

It's written correctly, you have to read it differently.

And it's well for them to be overconfident, sure they already know everything about driving that there is to know.

cdeb

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Donegal has 7000 km of the total 100000ish km of roads in the country.

So far this year, 5 fatalities out of 65 nationally.

So, 7% of the fatalities on 7% of the roads, which is way too high, 1 is too high. But this 'Donegal again' bollocks has to stop. We don't elect politicians that condone road deaths like they do in Kerry, Tipperary, and elsewhere.

I don't want to take away from the tragic loss of life here, but that analysis doesn't stand up.

Roads don't kill people. Cars on them do. So you can't apportion road deaths by the amount of road in a county. The amount of miles driven makes far more sense. The only data I can find on that is below (from the Indo), and Donegal is fourth worst in that in 2015, behind Longford, Leitrim and Mayo. That said, the number of deaths is so few that even one extra will change the stats a lot.

It's hard to compare that globally as many countries don't track road miles driven. But bottom line is our roads are actually quite safe - which is by no means a suggestion that we don't keep trying to improve road safety. (In that regard, the 70% reduction in the past 20 years, with last year being the safest year post-war, is quite remarkable)

Donegal appears to be at the lower end of that within Ireland, but by no means as bad as the stereotype would make out.

Sometimes, unfortunate things just happen.

Summer wind

Much too young to drive and much much too young to die. So very sorry to hear about this poor child’s death. It’s absolutely heartbreaking all the young people that have died in recent weeks.

Franz Von Peppercorn

irish_goat wrote: »

Can't speak for the rest of the country but I grew up outside Buncrana and it was standard practice for teenagers to drive on the road before getting their licence. The town has, afaik, the highest pass rate in the country and part of that has to be down to the fact that people are driving around for months before taking the test.

The highest pass rate could easily be lenient instructors. And judging by the results in Donegal, probably is.

Yer Da sells Avon

When I was 14, my cousin (who was also 14) bought a rusty old Mini for £75 to drive around in a field (in Co. Dublin, incidentally). We spent the summer of 1996 racing it around our own custom-built 'track', timing each other and generally just being 14-year-old idiots. It seemed like harmless fun at the time, but thankfully, the car died before it had a chance to kill anyone. Anyway, I'm in no position to judge.

fullstop

cdeb wrote: »

I don't want to take away from the tragic loss of life here, but that analysis doesn't stand up.

Roads don't kill people. Cars on them do. So you can't apportion road deaths by the amount of road in a county. The amount of miles driven makes far more sense. The only data I can find on that is below (from the Indo), and Donegal is fourth worst in that in 2015, behind Longford, Leitrim and Mayo. That said, the number of deaths is so few that even one extra will change the stats a lot.

And when was the last time you read "Longford/Leitrim/Mayo strikes again" or similar on boards in relation to a road death?

Ash.J.Williams

Pelvis wrote: »

It's called progress.

Driving on a farm at 14 isn't odd

Signore Fancy Pants

This post has been deleted.

8-10

Learned to drive myself on the same roads around Moville at 13 and 14. Surprised he was on his own though.

mdwexford

Terrible thing to happen.

Under age kids should not be driving cars though.

Find it bizarre people are saying otherwise.

Was doing the same at 15. Unlucky and an awful thing for the family.

Captain Obvious

Chewbacca wrote: »

It might not be odd but is it legal? Is it responsible?

No to both. And the person who owns the car should be prosecuted if the child is caught driving.

Galwayguy35

RIP

Most lads my age were driving tractors at his age, Was doing it myself at 13 and I guess looking back at it we were too young to be doing it but during the busy summer season everyone was needed and sometimes that meant driving as well.

Not saying it was right but 30 years ago it was seen as normal to be up in a tractor at that age.

Rubberchikken

He obviously didnt know how to drive safely if the car 'went out of control.

Cars dont go out of control, drivers lose control of the car. Very big difference.

I can't for one second agree with anyone who thinks its ok for a 14 yo to be driving a car anywhere including a field/off road.
What difference does it make. Its hardly legal. Hes probably not insured, hasnt a licence, shouldnt be doing it. Any adult who encourages it is reckless and its pointless being hypocritical about it.

No 14yo should be allowed behind the wheel of a car.

Yes its tough on his family and yes its tough to be dead at 14 but the 'aw sure kids do these things' attitude is crap and doesnt hold with me.

PowerToWait

Rubberchikken wrote: »

He obviously didnt know how to drive safely if the car 'went out of control.

Cars dont go out of control, drivers lose control of the car. Very big difference.

I can't for one second agree with anyone who thinks its ok for a 14 yo to be driving a car anywhere including a field/off road.
What difference does it make. Its hardly legal. Hes probably not insured, hasnt a licence, shouldnt be doing it. Any adult who encourages it is reckless and its pointless being hypocritical about it.

No 14yo should be allowed behind the wheel of a car.

Yes its tough on his family and yes its tough to be dead at 14 but the 'aw sure kids do these things' attitude is crap and doesnt hold with me.

So he got what he deserved then, in your eyes?

Who knows if he was 'allowed' anyway? First time I drove I was 13. Took my mother's car when folks were away. Completely reckless but 13 year olds will do reckless things.

Graces7

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Even if you are mentally handicapped. (Seen it done)

Graces7

GarIT wrote: »

I'm interested in the legal side of this. As far as I know if you lend someone your vehicle knowing they are uninsured your insurance can be made pay up and you can lose your NCB. In other countries it is definitely the case but I'm not sure about Ireland, that if you allow an unlicensed driver drive your vehicle you can be convicted of whatever they did or at least convicted of assisting them.

Imprisoning anyone wouldn't help anything in this situation but I think the vehicle owner should mabe receive a criminal conviction and an suspended sentence if they allowed the 14 year old to drive their vehicle on a public road.

I'm unsure if I think the parents should receive any sanction, separate to the above. Maybe it should be considered if they knowingly allowed a 14 year old to drive on a public road especially if they have other children.

A callous and singularly inappropriate comment at a time like this.

Graces7

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0609/969312-donegal-crash/

A fine looking lad. Such a tragedy. Requiescat in Pace, in Lux Eternum

boombang

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

A callous and singularly inappropriate comment at a time like this.

I don't think so in the slightest. Let a child play with a car and you think that's fine?

AllForIt

Pops_20 wrote: »

The headline makes it sound like the car crashed itself.

You do make a very good point about the way incidents are reported in the press that I have become aware of for some time now. I don't drive myself.

The general angle is that if someone has died then - spin the story as if it were an act of god. In a way it's understandable because it's a sensitive issue, families are grieving and it would look churlish and cruel to apportion any kind of blame.

On the other hand I think that strategy to be wrong as kind hearted as it's meant to be. I think a better way to do it is not to report it on the day, but in time report the story accurately so that ppl who view it really see the kinds of things that go on in the hope that it would make ppl more careful when it comes to their driving attitudes.

The reports that most get on my wick are the ones where on many weekends the story goes that a vehicle at 3:30am crashed on some quite county road. No other vehicles involved. We all know what's going one here - either it's drunk driving or as likely it's ppl taking advantage of quite roads so they can go rally driving. The failure to point this out in news reports is a serious error imo because it don't give any attention to the dangerous activity where it will just happen again and again and again.

GarIT

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

A callous and singularly inappropriate comment at a time like this.

I'm really mixed in my feelings about it but one part of me thinks any other children in the house should be taken into care until it can be ensured that they are safe given that their parents did just cause the death of their child through negligence.

Another part of me thinks that's too harsh but if the parents had acted on their parental responsibilities and prevented their child from breaking the law and doing something dangerous he would still be alive.

They may not have allowed it so it could be a pointless discussion but if they did allow their child do something that is illegal because of the risk of injury and obviously death then they are responsible for that death.

Graces7

boombang wrote: »

I don't think so in the slightest. Let a child play with a car and you think that's fine?

If you had ever lost a child... Do you think they are not suffering enough with guilt? And in grief. Hitting someone when they are down ...

Over and out. Ignore?

Graces7

GarIT wrote: »

I'm really mixed in my feelings about it but one part of me thinks any other children in the house should be taken into care until it can be ensured that they are safe given that their parents did just cause the death of their child through negligence.

Another part of me thinks that's too harsh but if the parents had acted on their parental responsibilities and prevented their child from breaking the law and doing something dangerous he would still be alive.

They may not have allowed it so it could be a pointless discussion but if they did allow their child do something that is illegal because of the risk of injury and obviously death then they are responsible for that death.

See my other post. Callous people ..ignore is grand

GarIT

Graces7 wrote: »

See my other post. Callous people ..ignore is grand

If the parents did allow their child to break the law and do something known to be dangerous to the child and others are they not responsible? They should probably let the parents off because they have already been punished enough already but that does not make them any less at fault if they chose to enable their child to do this.

Chewbacca

Chewbacca wrote: »

It might not be odd but is it legal? Is it responsible?

If it's private land then it's legal. Whether it's responsible or not will depend on the person and if they are trust worthy enough to drive alone or shouldn't always be accompanied.

Any child in our family will have a steering wheel in their hands as soon as they can sit up and will be taught to drive to drive tractor from the age of 8 or 9 same as I was myself.

Gorgeousgeorge

The poor young lad did what most of us that live in a rural area do.

Like myself at that age i had an aul toyota carina e to fly around in, mad for driving machinery, diggers cutting turf and noting anyone said to me made a difference.

RIP young fella

Gorgeousgeorge

Joseph Wet Dove wrote: »

If it's private land then it's legal. Whether it's responsible or not will depend on the person and if they are trust worthy enough to drive alone or shouldn't always be accompanied.

Any child in our family will have a steering wheel in their hands as soon as they can sit up and will be taught to drive to drive tractor from the age of 8 or 9 same as I was myself.

And to me that is a good idea as it will drive home the dangers of farm machinery and implements around the yard.

Understanding rather than being curious about that spinning shaft at the back of the machine. Fair play to you.

AllForIt

Joseph Wet Dove wrote: »

Any child in our family will have a steering wheel in their hands as soon as they can sit up and will be taught to drive to drive tractor from the age of 8 or 9 same as I was myself.

I grew up on a farm. Have 3 brothers. All of them couldn't wait to drive the tractor. They were allowed to drive the tractor without being given any kinds of warnings whatsoever. Just instruction on how to make it move, that's it.

I'll never ever understand the fascination with driving in young lads. In the country town I live in I see young lads driving around in souped up cars ever single day. The way I explain this is that they have f-all to do other than drive at night. Then it escalates where they are competing with each other. I find the whole scene quite pathetic. Getting a high for having the best souped up car. I don't mean to be snobby but uggh.

I think we have a serious mixed up muddled up contradictory attitude about driving in this country and it needs to be sorted out.


Edit: I just saw a thread on the Motorcycle forum and the title of the thread is : "Do you ever keep to the speed limit". Just says it all really doesn't it.

jluv

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

A callous and singularly inappropriate comment at a time like this.

Sorry grace..have to disagree..not callous or inappropriate. We are discussing,as far as we know a 14 year old child,who was allowed to drive (any vechicle),totally against the law. A lot of folk saying" oh but I did it" does not make it right or lawful. Callous and inappropriate would lead us to believe that this kid was involved in an activity that would be appropriate for his age which he was not. I'm sure his family can only wish right now that they had curbed (his natural) wish to drive at that young age. Pointing out the obvious is not callous or inappropriate..

Mountainsandh

Poor young fellow.

I don't think it is "unlucky" though, I think it is brought on by circumstances and could have been avoided.

Just like when you see a child of 4 or 5 years climbing all over the front seat of a car (in motion) in our local village, or with their nose stuck to the windscreen, not even a belt to secure them. If something happens it's not bad luck, it's really bad choices on the part of the adult(s) in charge.

It is tough mentioning it when the event is so raw, and yet, I think there is a real element of responsibility here. Sometimes the parents have to say no, because they know better. That's parenting.

I understand how some may think it's callous, and yet, if we keep pussyfooting around when such events occur, and referring to bad luck, then no discussion is opened, and similar events are likely to re-occur.

Signore Fancy Pants

This post has been deleted.

Happy4all

The callousness in this thread makes me despair.

rip to the young boy. Thoughts with his grieving family who must be going through hell.

jluv

And I live in a country area..know all the young fellas who want to drive the tractors from young age..have you ever faced a 16 year old driving a silage tractor? Absolutely scary!!!They drive massively scary tractors and trailers at excessive speeds. Why? They don't know any difference..they're young,they're invincible but it's a rite of passage in the farming word! Health and safety training needs to be introduced here and soon!

SEPT 23 1989

jluv wrote: »

And I live in a country area..know all the young fellas who want to drive the tractors from young age..have you ever faced a 16 year old driving a silage tractor? Absolutely scary!!!They drive massively scary tractors and trailers at excessive speeds. Why? They don't know any difference..they're young,they're invincible but it's a rite of passage in the farming word! Health and safety training needs to be introduced here and soon!

I presume they have learned from their father and their grandfather before them how to drive a tractor and trailer

Happy4all

jluv wrote: »

And I live in a country area..know all the young fellas who want to drive the tractors from young age..have you ever faced a 16 year old driving a silage tractor? Absolutely scary!!!They drive massively scary tractors and trailers at excessive speeds. Why? They don't know any difference..they're young,they're invincible but it's a rite of passage in the farming word! Health and safety training needs to be introduced here and soon!

Woman in her fifties died same time as a result of ride on lawnmower incident. Maybe women in there 50s in general are reckless grass cutters

Signore Fancy Pants

This post has been deleted.