Boy 14 Killed After Car He Was Driving Crashed in Donegal

jluv

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I presume they have learned from their father and their grandfather before them how to drive a tractor and trailer

I'd actually argue that most of them do not have a licence to do so. speed limits do need to be adhered to. So fathers and grandfathers may be putting them and us at a risk? Thats like saying my father drives a car so I don't need to sit my test as he'll teach me to drive..

GarIT

Happy4all wrote: »

Woman in her fifties died same time as a result of ride on lawnmower incident. Maybe women in there 50s in general are reckless grass cutters

A woman in her fifties is likely to have enough awareness to take safety into account for herself. Barring a mechanical fault she was likely the cause of her own death via a mistake or negligence. A 14 year old child is not often mature enough to consider safety and by law needs to be protected by their parents, the cause of their death barring a mechanical fault the cause of their death was the negligence of their parents.

A 14 year old child dying in a car crash they shouldn't have been driving in is as much the fault of the parents as a child drinking bleach would be. They may not have made it happen but it was their responsibility to take the necessary steps to prevent it.

jluv

Happy4all wrote: »

Woman in her fifties died same time as a result of ride on lawnmower incident. Maybe women in there 50s in general are reckless grass cutters

Seriously

Happy4all

GarIT wrote: »

A woman in her fifties is likely to have enough awareness to take safety into account for herself. Barring a mechanical fault she was likely the cause of her own death via a mistake or negligence. A 14 year old child is not often mature enough to consider safety and by law needs to be protected by their parents, the cause of their death barring a mechanical fault the cause of their death was the negligence of their parents.

A 14 year old child dying in a car crash they shouldn't have been driving in is as much the fault of the parents as a child drinking bleach would be. They may not have made it happen but it was their responsibility to take the necessary steps to prevent it.

The point is accidents happen. The parents don't need your condemnation. They will bear a heavy burden.

Chewbacca

Chewbacca wrote: »

So a person under 16 is legally able to drive a vehicle without passing a test, holding a licence or a motor insurance policy as long as its on private land?

Licenses, insurance, tax, age of driver, condition of vehicle etc etc are all irrelevant on private land, why would you think otherwise? Of course road traffic law does not apply on private property.

Chewbacca wrote: »

Anyway, technicalities aside. The State has deemed anyone under 16 cannot hold a licence, therefore should not be driving.

Just because you guys have done it on the farm from an early age does not mean it's right nor does it mean you werent putting yourself or others at risk....and yes yes....I know we all take the risk when we drive no matter what age but thats not a point worth making.

It's too young, just because you could, doesnt mean you should.

This is exactly the age and younger that people should be learning to drive. It's just unfortunate that the only people who can learn this young are those with private property to drive on. All teens should be learning to drive long before they reach 16 or 17. I was a well able to drive long before I was 16 which is when I got my first provisional and was driving on the road immediately in tractors. The minute I turned 17 I did one and a half driving lessons mostly to get to know the routes and passed my test first time almost flawlessly. No way would I be as compensation a driver as I was at 17 if I hadn't been driving for years by the time I first went out on the road.

GarIT

Happy4all wrote: »

The point is accidents happen. The parents don't need your condemnation. They will bear a heavy burden.

Accidents can happen to anyone, when you let a child do something dangerous and illegal you are responsible for dramatically increasing the odds of an accident happen.

If I let my two year old walk along the top of a wall, which isn't even illegal, when they fall is it my fault or do accidents happen so everything is ok?

Pugzilla

I don't think a child should be in control of a tonne plus of fast moving metal, private property or not. By that logic, they should learn how to shoot guns at that age as well.

GarIT

Joseph Wet Dove wrote: »

why would you think otherwise? Of course road traffic law does not apply on private property.

Almost all other laws apply on private land. Maybe driving ones should too.

Pretty much irrelevant in this case though as RTE and the Independent are now reporting it was a public road.

freshpopcorn

Pugzilla wrote: »

I don't think a child should be in control of a tonne plus of fast moving metal, private property or not. By that logic, they should learn how to shoot guns at that age as well.

You can shot legally when your around 14!

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

Pretty much irrelevant in this case though as RTE and the Independent are now reporting it was a public road.

The original report suggested it was on private land that was what my comments were based on. If its not private land then of course it's illegal and he should not have been driving there.

Pugzilla wrote: »

I don't think a child should be in control of a tonne plus of fast moving metal, private property or not. By that logic, they should learn how to shoot guns at that age as well.

They can and do (legally).

GarIT

Pugzilla wrote: »

By that logic, they should learn how to shoot guns at that age as well.

I actually completely agree that children should be learning to drive earlier, but on a track with no actual traffic in something like a Renault Twizzy. Under 16's shouldn't be allowed on a public road, under 21's shouldn't be allowed drive farm equipment or any other industrial machinery on a public road.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Nekarsulm

Pugzilla wrote: »

I don't think a child should be in control of a tonne plus of fast moving metal, private property or not. By that logic, they should learn how to shoot guns at that age as well.

"Learn how to shoot guns at that age as well"?

With the written consent of a parent, you can be issued a training licence and own a gun at 14.
There is a 14 year old girl at our clay pigeon club who has been shooting for years.
She can out shoot 90% of us, and is perfectly safe doing so.

Pugzilla

Is this Texas? Didn't know there was that many gun nuts in Ireland.

GarIT

Pugzilla wrote: »

Is this Texas? Didn't know there was that many gun nuts in Ireland.

Why would you think this is Texas, he said they were shooting clay pigeons not their classmates.

Mountainsandh

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I presume they have learned from their father and their grandfather before them how to drive a tractor and trailer

I don't think it's about the technicalities of driving really. Children are well able to press buttons and pedals, and some have excellent spatial awareness.

It's more about the decisions and risk taking involved. A young brain simply does not have the maturity required to make the safe decision in some situations.
In the same manner that some kids are very likely to decide to swim in an unsafe area, they are very likely to make the wrong decisions (especially quick, spontaneous decisions) while handling a car.

We don't trust children in many instances, and so we shouldn't, for their safety.

Mountainsandh

Happy4all wrote: »

The point is accidents happen. The parents don't need your condemnation. They will bear a heavy burden.

Thing is, with the attitude above, more such accidents will happen.




If we talk about whether the child should or should not have been let drive, there is a chance one parent or two might reconsider giving in to their child's demands, thereby possibly saving a life.

I would guess that, sadly, there is little in this thread that hasn't crossed the parents' minds, and there is little that can be said to help them with their grief either.

mdwexford

Joseph Wet Dove wrote: »

Any child in our family will have a steering wheel in their hands as soon as they can sit up and will be taught to drive to drive tractor from the age of 8 or 9 same as I was myself.

Then your family don't sound like they should be responsible for children.

You are posting some absolute tripe in this thread.

bloodless_coup

All those horrified at the concept of young people learning to drive around a field on thier own land must be sheltered city/town folk.

Or else we've just gone soft as a society.

Mountainsandh

doylefe wrote: »

All those horrified at the concept of young people learning to drive around a field on thier own land must be sheltered city/town folk.

Or else we've just gone soft as a society.

I agree we have gone soft, but not in the same mindset as you.
It seems we are soft on safety, rules, parenting.

Every time a tough parenting issue surfaces, the discussion is not how parents should handle it, but how the state, or schools, should be put in charge.

Sex education, bullying, internet safety, mobile phones, road safety (the suggestion schools should sort this problem has been made on this very thread), drugs, alcohol, sugary drinks and obesity... If it's challenging, it is increasingly suggested that schools will sort it.

jimmycrackcorm

Mountainsandh wrote:

It's more about the decisions and risk taking involved. A young brain simply does not have the maturity required to make the safe decision in some situations. In the same manner that some kids are very likely to decide to swim in an unsafe area, they are very likely to make the wrong decisions (especially quick, spontaneous decisions) while handling a car.

It's nothing to do with a youthful brain. It's about experience. Only experience allows you to make good decisions. If anything, a youthful Brian might make them quicker or sharper, but irrelevant without that experience.

I remember a news article a few years ago about a young 18 year old, he passed his driving test on a Friday and died in a single car accident by Sunday.

Mountainsandh

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's nothing to do with a youthful brain. It's about experience. Only experience allows you to make good decisions. If anything, a youthful Brian might make them quicker or sharper, but irrelevant without that experience.

I remember a news article a few years ago about a young 18 year old, he passed his driving test on a Friday and died in a single car accident by Sunday.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/11/why-teenagers-are-so-impulsive

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://web.stanford.edu/group/sparklab/pdf/Tarullo,%2520Obradovic,%2520Gunnar%2520(2009,%25200-3)%2520Self-Control%2520and%2520the%2520Developing%2520Brain.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjM4aPs8cfbAhXNmLQKHSkFCXgQFjAFegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2zPNyfsU_R0wPOsyHfZGxg

Self-control skills continue to develop throughout childhood and adolescence. The brain regions involved in self-control are immature at birth and are not fully mature until the end of adolescence, which helps to explain why developing self-control is such a long, slow process.

dreamers75

Donegal and person killed in a car crash....well thats new.

mazwell

dreamers75 wrote: »

Donegal and person killed in a car crash....well thats new.

I must have forgot there's never been a car crash in any other part of Ireland. Well done.
I'm from Donegal. My husband was driving quads at 7, tractors at 9 and cars probably before those ages.
I've 3 sons and they won't be getting near a car till they're old enough. That's 17 and provisional licence time.
**** off with your "big surprise donegals in the news must be a car crash" ****e.
When have you ever heard Donegal mentioned on the news unless it's bad news?
Possibly a skewed perspective

dreamers75

mazwell wrote: »

I must have forgot there's never been a car crash in any other part of Ireland. Well done.
I'm from Donegal. My husband was driving quads at 7, tractors at 9 and cars probably before those ages.
I've 3 sons and they won't be getting near a car till they're old enough. That's 17 and provisional licence time.
**** off with your "big surprise donegals in the news must be a car crash" ****e.
When have you ever heard Donegal mentioned on the news unless it's bad news?
Possibly a skewed perspective

thats nice, Dublin has a lot more people than Donegal yet you have a higher average for people dying in cars. Sort your ****ing selves out.

Or ignore it and it will be fine........

greeno

dreamers75 wrote: »

mazwell wrote: »

I must have forgot there's never been a car crash in any other part of Ireland. Well done.
I'm from Donegal. My husband was driving quads at 7, tractors at 9 and cars probably before those ages.
I've 3 sons and they won't be getting near a car till they're old enough. That's 17 and provisional licence time.
**** off with your "big surprise donegals in the news must be a car crash" ****e.
When have you ever heard Donegal mentioned on the news unless it's bad news?
Possibly a skewed perspective

thats nice, Dublin has a lot more people than Donegal yet you have a higher average for people dying in cars. Sort your ****ing selves out.

Or ignore it and it will be fine........

Yea but you have a lot lot more people killed by shootings and stabbings. So sort your ****ing selves out. He without sin and all that. I know where I’d rather bring my child up and it’s not in the drug addled alleys of Dublin.

Atoms for Peace

GarIT wrote: »

I actually completely agree that children should be learning to drive earlier, but on a track with no actual traffic in something like a Renault Twizzy. Under 16's shouldn't be allowed on a public road, under 21's shouldn't be allowed drive farm equipment or any other industrial machinery on a public road.

If under 21 we're banned from driving tractors the entire silage contracting business would be should down.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I dunno, hard to see how a 14 year old driving and having a fatal crash on a minor public road is just bad luck.

Even though it is still illegal it might have been somewhat better to have a qualified driver accompanying him at least.

DrPhilG

doylefe wrote: »

Or else we've just gone soft as a society.

I thought that was a given?

On a side note, I was always told that it was the roads and layout of Buncrana that made it easier to pass your test. I was advised to do my test there to increase my chances.

I did it in Letterkenny.

massey265

dreamers75 wrote:

thats nice, Dublin has a lot more people than Donegal yet you have a higher average for people dying in cars. Sort your ****ing selves out.

Such a statement, this sort off accident could off happened anywhere, boys will be boys! may this little lad rest in peace. And you dreamer go back to dream land and play your games.

Nekarsulm

Pugzilla wrote: »

Is this Texas? Didn't know there was that many gun nuts in Ireland.

About 210,000 firearms licenced in Rep.of Ireland.
About 12,000 of those are in Dublin.

Galwayguy35

jluv wrote: »

I'd actually argue that most of them do not have a licence to do so. speed limits do need to be adhered to. So fathers and grandfathers may be putting them and us at a risk? Thats like saying my father drives a car so I don't need to sit my test as he'll teach me to drive..

Who are you saying doesn't have a license?

The lads you have seen driving the tractors on the road at silage or young fellas just driving in a field?

Poor_old_gill

My nephews used to always try take my sisters car keys when they were 12/13/14 and she had to hide them to stop the lads from driving the cars. Once, the younger lad (13 at the the time) tipped the car off a wall and made **** of the side of it.

I'm not from Donegal.
My sister and her husband both have good jobs, the 2 lads are now both finished college and with decent jobs.

This stuff happens everywhere and to all different kinds of families- it's not a Donegal thing or a bad parenting this- it's a young lads being a bit reckless and chancing their arm thing.

Dakota Dan

irish_goat wrote: »

Can't speak for the rest of the country but I grew up outside Buncrana and it was standard practice for teenagers to drive on the road before getting their licence. The town has, afaik, the highest pass rate in the country and part of that has to be down to the fact that people are driving around for months before taking the test.

Good drivers in Donegal, pull the other one.

Mountainsandh

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

This stuff happens everywhere and to all different kinds of families- it's not a Donegal thing or a bad parenting this- it's a young lads being a bit reckless and chancing their arm thing.

We don't know if the young fellow borrowed the car without permission or whether using the car was something he was allowed to do, as far as I know ?

Mrmoe

He shouldn't have been driving on the road in a car at that age but he should have been allowed to drive on private land. It us a mistake sometimes to expect 18 year olds to do absolutely everything as soon as it is their 18th birthday. You need to have a balance between allowing some responsibility and making their own mistakes or Molly coddling them.

I would have learned to drive from 10-11 on tractors in a wide open field where it was safe. Many still do the same without the need for constant supervision.

Mountainsandh

Deciding not to allow your 14 year old to drive a car is not mollycoddling them in my book.

How anyone can argue that a child who's not allowed to drive a car at 14 is being mollycoddled is utterly puzzling imo.

GarIT

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

This stuff happens everywhere and to all different kinds of families- it's not a Donegal thing or a bad parenting this- it's a young lads being a bit reckless and chancing their arm thing.

Just because it's common doesn't mean it's not bad parenting. There are a lot of bad parents. If your child takes your car to go out for a drive you take their games consoles or whatever else they enjoy for a long time and you keep your keys out of their reach, whether that is in your pocket, hidden or in a safe if you have to.

A child getting access to keys once is an accident, a child getting access to car keys a second time after taking the car for a drive the first time means they have a ****ty parent.

If a child of mine took my car keys they'd be watching me drive over their phone, laptop and xbox and it would be a year before they would be allowed replace them with their own money. That would be the end of them being driven anywhere they want to go too, they can walk or get the bus.

runrun2

I used to work with a girl who learnt to drive at the age of 12 on the fields surrounding their farm in Tyrone. Its pretty common, passed her test first time at 17. Her siblings were the same.

Dakota Dan

runrun2 wrote: »

I used to work with a girl who learnt to drive at the age of 12 on the fields surrounding their farm in Tyrone. Its pretty common, passed her test first time at 17. Her siblings were the same.

The thing is learning to drive in a field at a young age you'll pick up many bad habits that have to be corrected with driving lessons before doing a driving test. Also driving around a field is a million miles away from driving on the road. I would imagine she also had lessons before the test. The thing about driving anything you're better off being a bit afraid of it rather than not having any fear.

runrun2

Dakota Dan wrote: »

The thing is learning to drive in a field at a young age you'll pick up many bad habits that have to be corrected with driving lessons before doing a driving test. Also driving around a field is a million miles away from driving on the road. I would imagine she also had lessons before the test. The thing about driving anything you're better off being a bit afraid of it rather than not having any fear.

Agreed but it is common in rural areas for kids as young as 12 to learn to drive. This girl is a college professional, not some young hooligan. Its just something they do in the country and all of her siblings were the same both male and female.

Gravelly

RIP to the young lad, very tough on the family. Myself, my brothers, and all our friends would have learned to drive between the ages of 10 and 14 in "field cars" that we bought ourselves, it's a long tradition in rural Ireland.

Billy86 wrote: »

It's grand, he wasn't black, Muslim or a traveler so the usual suspects have and will continue to move on in disappointment after scouring the link in the OP.

Sicko.

Dakota Dan

runrun2 wrote: »

Agreed but it is common in rural areas for kids as young as 12 to learn to drive. This girl is a college professional, not some young hooligan. Its just something they do in the country and all of her siblings were the same both male and female.

Yeah I know all that as I did it myself but driving around a field won't help you pass the test. I did a few lessons before the test even though I had a provisional licence for 3 years beforehand.

jaykay74

RIP to the young lad. Lucky no one else was killed or injured.

County Tyrone Lad

An almost identical crash happened today in County Mayo:

RT&#201 wrote: »

A teenage boy has died following a road crash on Clare Island off the coast of Co Mayo.

The boy has been named locally as 13-year-old Morgan Pinder, and was from the island.

He was fatally injured when the car he was driving crashed into a ditch at The Quay at approximately 1am this morning.

He was the only occupant of the car and was pronounced dead at the scene.

The stretch of road where the crash occurred has been closed for an examination.

His body has been taken to Mayo University Hospital in Castlebar.

A post-mortem examination has been carried out.

An investigation is under way and gardaí are appealing for witnesses to contact Westport Garda Station on 098-50230, the Garda Confidential Line on 1800 666 111, or any garda station.

smelly sock

County Tyrone Lad wrote: »

An almost identical crash happened today in County Mayo:

Rip to the youngster. Young lads really have no concept of danger. 13 is way to young. Again more parents have to bury a child.