What do you all think of this?

Grizzly 45

Can't see how that would be done as then it wouldn't be IPSC anymore.

Take that up then with the federation that runs IPSC.They have allowed National chapters to adapt to their countries firearms rules.IE the UK having to use .22 SA rifles and airsoft for the handgun part.
China,everything is airsoft as it is impossible for the average Chinese to own live firearms legally.Ergo,Germany has done the same in their "non IPSC" organisation with the largest growing segment in shooting sports.

Contradiction much? Especially as Government have control over firearms law once the minimum EU law is observed they can make them as strict as they want thereafter

How can we ask the PTB to consider what others do in one breath & ask them to ignore what others do in another?

.

Might as well ban all the handguns then as the UK has banned them anyway so obviously we must follow suit going by your logic,or we might as well allow concealed carry permits as Northern Ireland and the Czech Republic also allows them.[Which I would be all for as well]. Ergo contradiction much occurs a lot in national and EU legislation.

Sure, they can say "NO! pee off! "after considering a proposal, and that's fair enough but you are not even considering allowing that proposal to be made.Why?

Grizzly 45

Re deer stalking was to allow bigger calibres for more humane dispatch (still not convinced there was a problem there apart from people wanted to be quasi snipers shooting at longer range instead of actually stalking)

Was apprently because of the EU directives on hunting and some work also on FACE's part

Re target shooting was probably down to the opening of rifle ranges catering for "long range" shooting.

They were there for .22 even back then. Big calibre only took off post-2004

Te pistols DOJ apparently offered .22 pistols & they were refused. What calibre was Mr Brophy's case taken for?

Russian TOZ.22 and a Beretta 92 F 9mm.Apprently is the right word..it was another sop, and long finger exercise, that would be still ongoing today if this hadn't forced the govt of the day's hand with a court case.

I reckon, just my opinion, that the situation in the North & the opening of more ranges done us a lot of favours that the local "gun club" (read game/clay club) did.

Something like 15 years posts the IRA ceasefire and Good Friday agreement before the Brophy cases hit the courts?
Game clubs and NARGC like everyone else was a "don't rock the boat or mention the war!" attitude.If Brophy and others hadn't put their heads up over the parapet,we would still be shooting unsuitable calibres at deer and talking about pistol shooting.:rolleyes:

It may not have fallen in but it still could :

Indeed it could,but hardly for asking could an issue be discussed in an adult fashion in a diplomatic manner about a point of law,that doesn't actually need changing, but with certain restrictions on it could allow an international sport to be practised in Ireland.

Walter Mittys Brother

So why don't the two of you (Grizzly & Gunny) ask if there's no risk asking?

Or get NARGC to ask (I doubt they will or put their cash behind it ...... again)?

Gallery shooting is there now, well established & is challenging with timed shooting with both rifle & pistol. Is that not dynamic enough for you?

Can we get confirmation that Mr Brophy's case included a 9mm?

Nicholas Flood was the case that opened up above .270 (for fullbore silhouette shooting with .308 IIRC). Not sure of date.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

Most of that regression is down to half a dozen plonkers looking to commercialise the shooting sports in Ireland, not the ptb really. If someone runs to the minister with "recommendations" and he takes the opportunity of a wide open goal, we have no one but ourselves to blame. This is the security recommendation for gun dealers recently i am on about.

Plonkers being the operative word for faffing up the IPSC situation, and the "Tactical tools" of walking about the place in public with their thigh rigs, or running Ninja bodyguard courses up in Louth in that time.:mad:
Nothing against either thigh rigs or BG courses, but FFS sake! Does the word "discretion " mean anything here? I am 100% convinced watching the carry on of our orgs and idiocy of them and some members thereof, that 100% we are our own worst enemies.:(

Grizzly 45

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

So why don't the two of you (Grizzly & Gunny) ask if there's no risk asking?

Or get NARGC to ask (I doubt they will or put their cash behind it ...... again)?

Gallery shooting is there now, well established & is challenging with timed shooting with both rifle & pistol. Is that not dynamic enough for you?

No,I don't fancy having to ask my CS for "Another" semi-auto CF rifle for gallery.:D Now if they allowed a course for 9mm carbine I could get a Roni carbine conversion kit for my Glock and join in:)

Unfortunately,I don't represent a recognised national shooting organisation by the DOJ or will be recognised by them as we[Firearms United EU] seemingly upset them by having a primary agenda of preventing more draconian EU legislation enforced upon gun owners EU wide:rolleyes:.

Strange way for a Govt dept to treat a registered in Brussels EU NGO lobby group, that has national chapters advising govt depts in Spain, Finland, Sweden, Italy, Poland and the Czech Republic on the EU directive and its implementation...But that's IRL for ya.:rolleyes:

No, I wouldn't ask NARGC to do this as it is none of their beeswax, and I'm not a member of any club that is NARGC affiliated.
If anyone it should be NARSPC or ITS, as the former has got a seat or two at the FCP.
But maybe that is the reason for your reluctance on this issue?That this lot would make a hames of a pretty simple diplomatic request and go into full table thump diplomacy mode?? On that point, I would be somewhat in agreement with you.

Walter Mittys Brother

So DOJ won't talk to your EU wide group that would be willing to discuss this with them?

So you haven't asked NASRPC and/or ITS to make the approach to DOJ?

So you're not going to do it as an individual?

So what do you propose?

Looks like nobody apart from yourself & Gunny want this? Although if ye get it sorted I'd have a go

Grizzly 45

http://www.sportscoalition.org/153/

Correction! It was Declan Keogh who had the 1st 9mm liscensed here since 1972.:o Flood was a .308 My bad!

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Walter Mittys Brother;107254795]So DOJ won't talk to your EU wide group that would be willing to discuss this with them?

It has to be a national group.And DOJ would have to bring FU IRL to the FCP panel.Something I doubt both DOJ or the Irish bodies there would want,somehow.

So you haven't asked NASRPC and/or ITS to make the approach to DOJ?

Do you want me to????:D:D:D A "Hold ma beer" moment in Irish shooting sports history.:D:D:D But I dont think so for reasons below.

So you're not going to do it as an individual?

Who 'll listen to me??All I have been doing is trying to get practical shotgun going since ..oh 1984..Back when it was known as "combat shotgun" in the UK going here,and suggested it as a fallback position in case IPSC pistol went tits up in the Republic??shure what would I know and who would listen to me??

What do I propose...Nothing! I am simply pointing out as I have been doing all through this thread is the fact that IPSC could be shot here 100% legally,if certain restrictions are put in place and agreed on by the PTB,and the fact they have a template to use that is used by a country that knows its guns and laws and the difference between combat training, which they have banned since...1945, and a ligit shooting sport.

What people do with this info is up to them.If they want it back, there is a very strong case for them to make to their orgs.If not, well sit and bemoan the fact for another 35 years, while losing ground steadily for CF pistols as well for all I care.

Looks like nobody apart from yourself & Gunny want this? Although if ye get it sorted I'd have a go

Apart from this little discussion here...Who else has been asked? We could always stick up a petition on change.org and see what happens?

Walter Mittys Brother

So safe to say it's not going to happen?

So, lets get on with what we have got, while we have it & not be posting ammo here for the PTB to try & use against us in the future? I think that covers my contribution to this

gunny123

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

So why don't the two of you (Grizzly & Gunny) ask if there's no risk asking?

You seem to have a notion in your head walther, that the simple, usual, reasonable process of asking a civil servant to consider something, leads to dire retribution.

Why ? They will either say yes, no, or we'll get back to you and kick the can down the road. They don't say no and then start a vendetta against you.

Where is the risk you speak of ? I happen to know Frank Brophy, Nick Flood and Neil Mcveigh, who all crashed into the doj and gardai head on, they haven't told me of waking up beside any horses heads.

And you can still licence pistols, rifles of .308 and heavy game rifles respectively, so apart from centrefire pistols, there has been no revenge.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

You seem to have a notion in your head walther, that the simple, usual, reasonable process of asking a civil servant to consider something, leads to dire retribution.

Why ? They will either say yes, no, or we'll get back to you and kick the can down the road. They don't say no and then start a vendetta against you.
.

Exactly, we aren't in Soviet Russia or Iran. This is a pretty normal day to day process that is done every day in the Western World. Going to talk to politicians about changing a law.


It's up to our orgs or whoever represents IPSC in the ROI to take this further if they have the mandate to do , and they have the moxie to ask.

Walter Mittys Brother

If there's no problem why don"t ye?

gunny123

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

If there's no problem why don"t ye?

Because the first thing they would say is "who the **** are you" ? And they would be right. An approach to one of the shooting orgs, the straight ones, might be a better course of action.

I would not really be interested in practical pistol shooting, but the shotgun looks real fun.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

I would not really be interested in practical pistol shooting, but the shotgun looks real fun.

You haven't lived unless you have shot 3 gun match.:)

Heckler

The logic defies belief.

CS: Why do you want the pistol ?

Me: To shoot competition. T&P, Multi etc.

CS: Ok. Here ya go but restrict the mag to 5 rounds.

Me: Sure.

Theres Guards at my club who shoot competition ffs.

Melodeon

Heckler wrote: »

The logic defies belief.

CS: Why do you want the pistol ?

Me: To shoot competition. T&P, Multi etc.

CS: Ok. Here ya go but restrict the mag to 5 rounds.

Me: Sure.

Theres Guards at my club who shoot competition ffs.

Is there any rational reason for the 5-round magazine thing?
Does ANY internationally governed course of fire strictly require only 5 rounds at a time, or is it just some sort of PTB dog-in-the-manger strategy to make things awkward and difficult for Irish pistol owners?

Walter Mittys Brother

ISSF disciplines?

BattleCorp

Melodeon wrote: »

Is there any rational reason for the 5-round magazine thing?
Does ANY internationally governed course of fire strictly require only 5 rounds at a time, or is it just some sort of PTB dog-in-the-manger strategy to make things awkward and difficult for Irish pistol owners?

Olympic pistol is 5 rounds. I think that's how they settled on 5.

Absolutely retarded that a 6 shot revolver must have one chamber plugged.

Heckler

BattleCorp wrote: »

Olympic pistol is 5 rounds. I think that's how they settled on 5.

Absolutely retarded that a 6 shot revolver must have one chamber plugged.

And a mag having 5 plugged.
So much safer having one in the chamber and five in the mag on a firing line :rolleyes: Which we all do to comply with the law.

Farcical.

Heckler

Makes the timed bit of T & P a joke and also the precision. Must be why scores are so low...

gunny123

BattleCorp wrote: »

Absolutely retarded that a 6 shot revolver must have one chamber plugged.

I have seen plenty of Smith and Wesson 617's 10 shots with half the chambers in the cylinder plugged, absolutely daft.

Heckler

If Guards are shooting comp the whole thing is a debacle. They might as well drive home drunk. Probably be a lesser penalty.

Melodeon

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

ISSF disciplines?

BattleCorp wrote: »

Olympic pistol is 5 rounds. I think that's how they settled on 5.

Absolutely retarded that a 6 shot revolver must have one chamber plugged.

Ah, that explains it so.

Still, I strongly suspect that the PTB could barely conceal their glee when they discovered they could use the regulations of a Blue Riband sport to feck around with everyone else

Walter Mittys Brother

BattleCorp wrote: »

Olympic pistol is 5 rounds. I think that's how they settled on 5.

Apparently it was suggested to ptb by someone.

gunny123

The super demanded that i have one chamber in my revolver WELDED up when i went to renew my licence !

I informed him that any welding or brazing on the cylinder, would render the gun out of proof and possibly dangerous.

In fairness he relented and i locktited in a brass pin.