Kimmage at it again

howiya

Tell me how wrote: »

He won't on Twitter but he's trying to illicit some form of a response due to public attention.

I suspect they will eventually try to placate him. They know he's like a dog with a bone.

Out of the three pieces he's wrote this is the one I'd be most interesting in hearing answers on due to the involvement of Croke Park and money.

I don't however like him writing about what essentially are volunteers who for whatever reason thought they were doing the right thing at the time.

I don't think because you become a club chairman in your parish that you should be answerable to the likes of a national journalist like Paul Kimmage.

He affords anonymity to the Driver because he agrees with him but the club chairman's name is all over the Indo. Both are volunteers in their community.

At least in the case of this week's article, the inter county manager has already chosen to be in the public spotlight.

Felexicon

howiya wrote: »

Tell me how wrote: »

He won't on Twitter but he's trying to illicit some form of a response due to public attention.

I suspect they will eventually try to placate him. They know he's like a dog with a bone.

Out of the three pieces he's wrote this is the one I'd be most interesting in hearing answers on due to the involvement of Croke Park and money.

I don't however like him writing about what essentially are volunteers who for whatever reason thought they were doing the right thing at the time.

I don't think because you become a club chairman in your parish that you should be answerable to the likes of a national journalist like Paul Kimmage.

He affords anonymity to the Driver because he agrees with him but the club chairman's name is all over the Indo. Both are volunteers in their community.

At least in the case of this week's article, the inter county manager has already chosen to be in the public spotlight.

So would you feel the same for any individual who goes against a court ruling or is it purely because this is happening within the bubble of the GAA?

clint_silver

clint_silver wrote: »

With doping theres a straight answer.

His series of articles here all finish the same way with questions akin to "wont someone think of the poor children". No alternate view. Nothing to suggest what should happen. Lazy.

His job is to investigate and report, not give answers

howiya

Felexicon wrote: »

So would you feel the same for any individual who goes against a court ruling or is it purely because this is happening within the bubble of the GAA?

Let the courts deal with any breach of their rulings. If you read the article there is no record of the court case or what was actually agreed upon in court.

Surely any half decent journalist would have quoted from the records of the case.

Tell me how

howiya wrote:

Let the courts deal with any breach of their rulings. If you read the article there is no record of the court case or what was actually agreed upon in court.

I think the fact that there was a judgement from the courts means that all information is definitely in the public domain.

clint_silver

Deleted User wrote: »

His job is to investigate and report, not give answers

"theres deathly silence from the gaa as usual" or words to that effect.

which is not true, a lot of time and meetings were held behind closed doors dedicated to getting a resolution. Theyre private organisation matters, no need for them to be in public domain. Kimmage WANTS them in the public domain so he has something to write about. Why do they have to be in public domain?

Who said every matter arising in an organisation like the GAA needs to be in the public domain?

What happened to respect and privacy of the individual?

rosknight

I say fair play to Kimmage.


Is there one person on here that cannot resonate with the stories that he has brought to the fore?


Don’t tell me that there aren’t stories like this in other Clubs around the country. There are decent families lives ruined because of some of the "morons" that sit at the top table on their GAA Clubs. I believe Kimmage has only just started and if he wanted he could write a book with all the complaints/stories he has received at this stage. Let people not forget that these stories are real and members have been grossly affected by the consequences of same.


It is well time GAA Club’s started looking at the personnel that they have in place on their Executive Committees.


I am sorry to say (and I will probably get slated for this), that gone are the days when any “Joe Soap” can go for Chairman/Secretary of a GAA Club. With all the governance issues these days, you need people that have experience of these issues. Too often Chairperson/Secretary’s are caught out by saying the wrong thing and going off on a solo run to boost an ego.

howiya

Tell me how wrote: »

I think the fact that there was a judgement from the courts means that all information is definitely in the public domain.

Anywhere we can read this?

carter10

clint_silver wrote: »

"theres deathly silence from the gaa as usual" or words to that effect.

which is not true, a lot of time and meetings were held behind closed doors dedicated to getting a resolution. Theyre private organisation matters, no need for them to be in public domain. Kimmage WANTS them in the public domain so he has something to write about. Why do they have to be in public domain?

Who said every matter arising in an organisation like the GAA needs to be in the public domain?

What happened to respect and privacy of the individual?

Really? You're asking about respect and privacy of the individual- is that the same privacy he afforded the driver when making allegations in a public meeting?

Bonniedog

If Kimmage is that interested in the GAA, other than to attempt to damage it, then I am sure there is a club near him he could join. Although I wouldn't even wish that on Kilmacud :-)

clint_silver

I say fair play to Kimmage.


Is there one person on here that cannot resonate with the stories that he has brought to the fore?


Don’t tell me that there aren’t stories like this in other Clubs around the country. There are decent families lives ruined because of some of the "morons" that sit at the top table on their GAA Clubs. I believe Kimmage has only just started and if he wanted he could write a book with all the complaints/stories he has received at this stage. Let people not forget that these stories are real and members have been grossly affected by the consequences of same.


It is well time GAA Club’s started looking at the personnel that they have in place on their Executive Committees.


I am sorry to say (and I will probably get slated for this), that gone are the days when any “Joe Soap” can go for Chairman/Secretary of a GAA Club. With all the governance issues these days, you need people that have experience of these issues. Too often Chairperson/Secretary’s are caught out by saying the wrong thing and going off on a solo run to boost an ego.

Theres many stories like his reported ones and worse. Far worse. But dealt with. Do you think there's some illuminati type corruption conspiracy?

Im still not getting this. From anyone who says well done Kimmage. Other than the stories being a voyeuristic dip into someones personal life that they never signed up to when they volunteered, what do you want to happen at the end of them other than enjoying the read?

southstar

Kimmage...man with a very high opinion of his own opinion...lots of hubris...needs to take a cold shower every now and then.

rosknight

Just because you volunteer, doesn't mean you can walk all over people and treat members with disrespect. The code is Give Respect - Get Respect but we all know people who volunteer for the wrong reasons.

I too am a volunteer and have coached kids to play the game for the past 10 years but when you see some of the crazy stuff that underage coaches get up to in my own Club and other Clubs, you just wonder is it worth it?

Every day you go out on the field you have to be equipped to keep stum or you end up falling out with someone. Picture this - in my last 2 games with my current crop of u12's, I have had to listen to supporters of the opposition roaring 'Kill them', 'Kill them' when our girls started to get on top towards the end of the game. In the other game I had to listen to the opposition manager roar out on the field 'Take her down' as one of our girls went through on goal.

Now what sort of an example is this setting for 10,11,12 year old girls?
Kimmage is right when he says "is there anyone accountable"?

theyoungchap

clint_silver wrote: »

Who would you want them to be accountable to though? Whats the end goal in putting names in the paper here of volunteers? Whats that going to achieve.
If anyone ever feels hard done by theres appeals processes all the way to croke park and beyond. And even if those are exhausted, what more do you want to happen? Where do you want it go? Im asking same question of the kimmage article, other then selling newspapers I dont know what he wants to happen.

The GAA love people saying "ah sure we're a great organisation, full of volunteers".

Yes maybe at club U12, but when you get to adult grade at either club or county the GAA is a complete gravy train for all involved.

I look at county managers earning a fortune - why haven't the GAA done anything about it? Players now taking time out for hurling/football - are we seriously to expect they don't get anything for it?

Players kick the cr@p out of one another in a club match and nobody saw anything? Or "ah sure it was heat of the moment, nobody got injured".

Why do referees have to get a Garda escort off the pitch? Or umpires? Why is it a GAA thing to confront him when a borderline call has went against them? Why isn't Andy McEntee a referee himself if it is so easy?

I am a GAA supporter, have been all my life. And I detest Paul Kimmage. But it is time the GAA cleaned up their act and stopped defending managers/players/etc, or making an example of a club player but letting a county player off for the same thing.

Have you ever seen a rugby referee being escorted off the pitch, in spite of the fact that the calls are just as if not more borderline?

theyoungchap

rosknight wrote: »

I am sorry to say (and I will probably get slated for this), that gone are the days when any “Joe Soap” can go for Chairman/Secretary of a GAA Club. With all the governance issues these days, you need people that have experience of these issues. Too often Chairperson/Secretary’s are caught out by saying the wrong thing and going off on a solo run to boost an ego.

Gone are the days when most Joe Soaps would be stupid enough to go for Chairman/Secretary of a GAA club!

Tell me how

clint_silver wrote:

Im still not getting this. From anyone who says well done Kimmage. Other than the stories being a voyeuristic dip into someones personal life that they never signed up to when they volunteered, what do you want to happen at the end of them other than enjoying the read?

You say it yourself. You're still not getting it so I don't know if his will make a difference.

Its not complicated for me, I'd just like to see a sense that clubs behave as they should with moral decency, transparency and consistency.

harpsman

I like Kimmage, and nearly always read his pieces. I found the 2 on Athenry and Balbriggan interesting, even if they were essentially local issues.


But I have to draw the line at kissing Ger Gilroys arse-as if he wasn't enough of a pompous blow hard already

Felexicon

Bonniedog wrote: »

If Kimmage is that interested in the GAA, other than to attempt to damage it, then I am sure there is a club near him he could join. Although I wouldn't even wish that on Kilmacud :-)

I really don't understand how people only see this as an attempt to damage the image of the GAA.

The GAA is an organisation that is deeply ingrained in Irish culture and if they are overseeing and seemingly doing nothing about major incidents at either club or county level I think it should be highlighted and answers should be sought.

We are too comfortable swallowing the story sold to us by RTE/Sky that everything is rosey in the garden when in fact there are major issues at all levels that are having a knock on effect to participation in GAA.

Felexicon

harpsman wrote: »

I like Kimmage, and nearly always read his pieces. I found the 2 on Athenry and Balbriggan interesting, even if they were essentially local issues.


But I have to draw the line at kissing Ger Gilroys arse-as if he wasn't enough of a pompous blow hard already

To be fair to Gilroy he is one of the few reporters/interviewers in this country who doesn't let people off the hook for fear they might not come on his show again.

The Stephen Wallace interview was uncomfortable to listen to but he would be doing a dis-service to his listeners/viewers if he didn't press him on the incident that lead to his suspension.

You have to wonder why Wallace was so against admitting his actions since it is clear to see from the video that he throws a punch and it had also been appealed and upheld by the time of the interview.

Felexicon

howiya wrote: »

Let the courts deal with any breach of their rulings. If you read the article there is no record of the court case or what was actually agreed upon in court.

Surely any half decent journalist would have quoted from the records of the case.

I read the article and there are certainly details of what the court ordered the club chairman to do and he did not follow those rulings.

And no a journalist would not quote from court records when the outcome can be laid out in normal language.

howiya

Felexicon wrote: »

I read the article and there are certainly details of what the court ordered the club chairman to do and he did not follow those rulings.

And no a journalist would not quote from court records when the outcome can be laid out in normal language.

Maybe you could provide a quote?

As far as I can see the only mention of what was agreed in court are the following quotes from an unnamed third party;

"You didn't read out what was agreed in court,"

"(The Driver) did not sue O'Dwyer's - he sued you. He didn't sue the club, he sued you. That wasn't what was agreed."

"But you did not read what was agreed. It was a breach of the terms of the settlement"

There is no mention of what was actually agreed. The article is very much a collection of he said, she said quotes. A few more facts wouldn't go astray.

clint_silver

Tell me how wrote: »

You say it yourself. You're still not getting it so I don't know if his will make a difference.

Its not complicated for me, I'd just like to see a sense that clubs behave as they should with moral decency, transparency and consistency.

Everyone would, but other than isolated incidents, the ones reported by him notwithstanding, they generally do.

The Wallace one is a particularly bad one for me and maybe the only one that should be making national news. If a county manager is throwing a punch, and he did throw one, the punishment should be draconian. The refs being escorted off the pitch should be answerable by the GAA. Any team that force a *referee to be escorted off the pitch should be hit with fines and suspensions to such a level that would curtail it. And thats what Kimmage should be appealing for rather than coming at it with nearly illuminati type accusations of "deathly silence"

Look at meath tyrone at the weekend, as emotional as it was, if there was a straight forward 6 months ban for speaking to the referee after the game to say anything other than thank you then those incidents drop off. Youd like to hope anyway.

Richmond Ultra

clint_silver wrote: »

Everyone would, but other than isolated incidents, the ones reported by him notwithstanding, they generally do.

The Wallace one is a particularly bad one for me and maybe the only one that should be making national news. If a county manager is throwing a punch, and he did throw one, the punishment should be draconian. The refs being escorted off the pitch should be answerable by the GAA. Any team that force a *referee to be escorted off the pitch should be hit with fines and suspensions to such a level that would curtail it. And thats what Kimmage should be appealing for rather than coming at it with nearly illuminati type accusations of "deathly silence"

Look at meath tyrone at the weekend, as emotional as it was, if there was a straight forward 6 months ban for speaking to the referee after the game to say anything other than thank you then those incidents drop off. Youd like to hope anyway.

Another problem with the GAA is that they appear to like giving time bans as opposed to game bands. If he gets six months now, he misses pretty much nothing as he'll be good to go come January, however if you put it at six competitive games, he'd be out action until February or near the start of the league. Which would make a better statement towards discipline in the GAA.

brocbrocach

clint_silver wrote: »

The Wallace one is a particularly bad one for me and maybe the only one that should be making national news. If a county manager is throwing a punch, and he did throw one, the punishment should be draconian.

Where's the problem though? Wallace was caught and suspended for the best part of the season. It's not very lenient at all, although it could be worse. Understandably he's embarrassed about throwing a cowards blow and not mad to talk about it on national radio. I can't see where the "won't someone think of the kids" wailing comes from at all.

As it happens Wallace wasn't acting in the capacity of a county manager when he got involved so it's debateable whether that has any relevance at all even.

Tell me how

brocbrocach wrote:

As it happens Wallace wasn't acting in the capacity of a county manager when he got involved so it's debateable whether that has any relevance at all even.

It was a GAA event. Same happens in all sporting organisations. You misbehave in one corner, it affects the other.

It's not exactly to do with children, it's to do with an individual accepting responsibility and not trying to sugar coat it or dismiss it.

Wallace isn't alone in this respect. Several do the same, Kimmage is consistent, when he sees this behavior, he calls BS.

Look at how he fell out with David Walsh because David allowed his moral compass to be readjusted.

howiya

Tell me how wrote: »

It was a GAA event. Same happens in all sporting organisations. You misbehave in one corner, it affects the other.

It's not exactly to do with children, it's to do with an individual accepting responsibility and not trying to sugar coat it or dismiss it.

Wallace isn't alone in this respect. Several do the same, Kimmage is consistent, when he sees this behavior, he calls BS.

Look at how he fell out with David Walsh because David allowed his moral compass to be readjusted.

The time travel element of these articles undermines their relevance. Is he not capable of writing about something that happened in the more recent past?

Eg Friday night in the Athletic Grounds or Andy McEntee's behaviour on Saturday evening in Navan. Perish the thought that he might have to write up until the print deadline...

brocbrocach

I know it's not to do with children, it's a child-like wail though... who will punish the bad man... for god's sake.
"accepting responsibility"? Most of us go through life evading responsibility. Like every other sport in the world people will fudge and evade the rules and the sports administrators need to enforce them. It's not evidence of lack of moral compass or a corruption at the heart of the GAA, it's a fella trying to push his side of a little dispute. It's a very small story that we all understand, but Kimmage feels he needs to ladle it out with a big dose of sanctimoniousness.
Now if the article was about how Offaly ignored Wallace's act, he might be able to knock a paragraph or two of outrage out of it. As it is, man is bad, man is punished, man is grumbling ... big woopee.

Felexicon

howiya wrote: »

The time travel element of these articles undermines their relevance. Is he not capable of writing about something that happened in the more recent past?

Eg Friday night in the Athletic Grounds or Andy McEntee's behaviour on Saturday evening in Navan. Perish the thought that he might have to write up until the print deadline...

Well you can't expect him to have inside knowledge of every GAA matter the minute it happens.

The stories are still relevant no matter how long ago they happened.

Should we just tell the women of the Laundries to keep their mouths shut and get over it because it happened years ago?

randd1

I like Kimmage's articles, they're usually well written and well researched. Some of them are absolutely outstanding in what they reveal.

But he can be a chore to read at the same time as everything he writes about is viewed through the eyes of a sports cynic as opposed to a sports fan.

His writing style is such that I'd love to see an article written by him where he promotes a sport, where he really portrays the excitement and beauty of a sport, I'd say it'd be a savage read.

I suspect though I'll be waiting.

Tell me how

randd1 wrote:

His writing style is such that I'd love to see an article written by him where he promotes a sport, where he really portrays the excitement and beauty of a sport, I'd say it'd be a savage read.

He still has a love for Golf and particularly the Masters.

ohnonotgmail

randd1 wrote: »

I like Kimmage's articles, they're usually well written and well researched. Some of them are absolutely outstanding in what they reveal.

But he can be a chore to read at the same time as everything he writes about is viewed through the eyes of a sports cynic as opposed to a sports fan.

His writing style is such that I'd love to see an article written by him where he promotes a sport, where he really portrays the excitement and beauty of a sport, I'd say it'd be a savage read.

I suspect though I'll be waiting.

Tell me how wrote: »

He still has a love for Golf and particularly the Masters.

He still has a massive love for cycling, the tour de france in particular. That really shone through in the documentary he did a couple of years ago.

Tell me how

ohnonotgmail wrote:

He still has a massive love for cycling, the tour de france in particular. That really shone through in the documentary he did a couple of years ago.

I think I remember a particular part from that where he was sitting on the seats, I think near a finish line or at some ceremony to which he was invited. Below him was Stephen Roche. Paul was on his own with no one even near him and Roche was surrounded by people. Dignatries and other officials I think. This was around the time when Roche was being linked to Michele Ferrari (of EPO fame).

I thought it was a very poignant shot. Roche, still being adored, and Kimmage still an outcast. He was looking at Roche and the people around him in the shot. I'd love to know what was going through Paul's head at that moment.

howiya

Felexicon wrote: »

Well you can't expect him to have inside knowledge of every GAA matter the minute it happens.

The stories are still relevant no matter how long ago they happened.

Should we just tell the women of the Laundries to keep their mouths shut and get over it because it happened years ago?

He’s a sports journalist. Should he not be up to date?

Felexicon

howiya wrote: »

He’s a sports journalist. Should he not be up to date?

So what timeframe do you use to decide if something is "up to date"?

Athenry still can't play underage games so that seems fairly current to me

rpurfield

howiya wrote: »

He’s a sports journalist. Should he not be up to date?

The type of article he is writing isn't a match report, it takes time to research and get the various comments. Should sports news only be match reports and previews?

howiya

Felexicon wrote: »

So what timeframe do you use to decide if something is "up to date"?

Athenry still can't play underage games so that seems fairly current to me

I was referring to the article about Stephen Wallace. The Indo has the video of the assault on its website since April. Same month would be up to date?

There’s a difference between rehashing content and writing something new. There was nothing new in the article.

Dr_serious2

Flipping Kimmage. Always preferred Crumlin as a suburb.

howiya

Felexicon wrote: »

I read the article and there are certainly details of what the court ordered the club chairman to do and he did not follow those rulings.

And no a journalist would not quote from court records when the outcome can be laid out in normal language.

Any sign of a quote from the article yet? Since you're replying to my more recent posts. Maybe you could reply to the previous one?

Tell me how

howiya wrote:

Any sign of a quote from the article yet? Since you're replying to my more recent posts. Maybe you could reply to the previous one?

I'm curious why are you ei interested in quotes?

Do you think he miscommunicated the outcome of court proceedings?

Do you always look for trial transcripts?

howiya

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm curious why are you ei interested in quotes?

Do you think he miscommunicated the outcome of court proceedings?

Do you always look for trial transcripts?

I’m looking for quotes from the article because the other poster said that there are details of what the court ordered in the article. If so I’ve missed it and am happy to be proven wrong.

The only account of the the court ruling that I can see are quotes from an unnamed third party. The article doesn’t even name the judge or a date of the court case.

The article is titled “The curious case of a Dublin club, a twenty grand cheque and some unanswered questions for the GAA”.

Lets just say I’m curious too

Maybe the other poster can provide the detail he/she says that they read in the article.

randd1

Tell me how wrote: »

I think I remember a particular part from that where he was sitting on the seats, I think near a finish line or at some ceremony to which he was invited. Below him was Stephen Roche. Paul was on his own with no one even near him and Roche was surrounded by people. Dignatries and other officials I think. This was around the time when Roche was being linked to Michele Ferrari (of EPO fame).

I thought it was a very poignant shot. Roche, still being adored, and Kimmage still an outcast. He was looking at Roche and the people around him in the shot. I'd love to know what was going through Paul's head at that moment.

"If only I had taken the drugs like the rest of them, I'd be that rich and famous"?

Felexicon

Felexicon wrote: »

I read the article and there are certainly details of what the court ordered the club chairman to do and he did not follow those rulings.

And no a journalist would not quote from court records when the outcome can be laid out in normal language.

howiya wrote: »

Any sign of a quote from the article yet? Since you're replying to my more recent posts. Maybe you could reply to the previous one?

I said there were details not quotes.

howiya

Felexicon wrote: »

I said there were details not quotes.

I know what you said. I'm asking you to quote the details you read in the article. It appears I've missed it.

Felexicon

Armagh manager angry that players are suspended after a mass brawl.

Surely he should be happy that it is an early lesson for these young lads that there are consequences for your actions.

http://www.the42.ie/armagh-u20s-brawl-suspensions-4072766-Jun2018/

ProudDUB

Felexicon wrote: »

Armagh manager angry that players are suspended after a mass brawl.

Surely he should be happy that it is an early lesson for these young lads that there are consequences for your actions.

http://www.the42.ie/armagh-u20s-brawl-suspensions-4072766-Jun2018/

Eh yeah - because GAA managers have such a long and glorious tradition of wanting their charges to learn the hard way that there are consequences for your actions. :rolleyes:

Bonniedog

Felexicon wrote: »

Armagh manager angry that players are suspended after a mass brawl.

Surely he should be happy that it is an early lesson for these young lads that there are consequences for your actions.

http://www.the42.ie/armagh-u20s-brawl-suspensions-4072766-Jun2018/

Lucky they weren't thrown out altogether. Imagine the mayhem if the supporters had joined in the fray!

Felexicon

ProudDUB wrote: »

Eh yeah - because GAA managers have such a long and glorious tradition of wanting their charges to learn the hard way that there are consequences for your actions. :rolleyes:

That's the point pal.

Tell me how

Felexicon wrote:

Armagh manager angry that players are suspended after a mass brawl.

ProudDUB wrote:

Eh yeah - because GAA managers have such a long and glorious tradition of wanting their charges to learn the hard way that there are consequences for your actions.

The Tyrone county board launched an appeal that the game be replayed because of the brawl, even though their player (allegedly) instigated it.

Former Tyrone player, Philip Jordan, expressed joy that they failed in their appeal as it would have implied that their players were faultless.

Paul Kimmage would be an admirer of Jordan's approach I imagine.