2018-2019 Champions Cup

troyzer

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. One of the most impressive Pro 14 performances at the weekend. Far better at taking their chances than Glasgow or even Munster. Glasgow especially annoyed me. They absolutely threw that game because of their unwillingness to take the points on offer. Did anyone count the number of kickable ones they turned down?

Saracens conceded 7 penalties in their own half. I'm not sure how many of these were kickable for points.

Cookiemunster

troyzer wrote: »

Saracens conceded 7 penalties in their own half. I'm not sure how many of these were kickable for points.

There are two obvious occasions I remember. They went to the corner three times in a row in first half injury time with the score at 3-10 and then got turned over. And they had one in front of the posts with 10 to go to get back within 7, which they put into the corner and lost the line out. So that accounts for 4 of those pens and they took two shots at goal. I can't remember the other one.

Burkie1203

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looking ahead to this weekend, Munster have a good chance to move into poll position with a home 5 pointer against Gloucester. Nothing I saw in the game against Castres suggests to me that Gloucester are a threat to an increasingly organised Munster side. Exeter will test Castres home form and I'm predicting 4 for them albeit a 5 pointer wouldn't surprise me. Munster to be ahead by 1 or on points difference.

Ulster won't have enough to beat Racing but I hope they can keep it respectable. A lbp would be massive.

Leinster will have a much bigger test this weekend. Toulouse are a coming side and whilst they look vulnerable at times and ran out of gas a bit in the last quarter we know they'll offer much more at home and the away win gives them more to play for also. Still predict 4 for Leinster out of this, 5 points and the group is on the verge of being sown up.

Toulouse, Saracens and Racing have put themselves in a good position with away wins in round 1. Hard to know where Newcastle are at, brilliant win aside I think they'll struggle against Montpellier and Edinburgh.

Bit of a flat opening weekend. First round of the pro14 was more exciting to be honest.

Very early final 8 predictions:

Leinster
Racing
Saracens
Munster
Montpellier
Exeter
Scarlets / Ulster
Cardiff / Newcastle

That Munster v Exeter game could have a massive bearing on the whole shape of the QFs

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

That Munster v Exeter game could have a massive bearing on the whole shape of the QFs

Yup, Rob Baxter said a winner takes all final round would be a massive fixture but that he hoped they were through at that stage.

I'd say they are bitterly disappointed after the draw - they seem a team that really want to make their mark on Europe and an opening weekend draw at home must be quite a kick in the teeth.

Burkie1203

Feel real sorry for this guy

https://twitter.com/thepaulwilliams/status/1051850859427053569?s=19

prawnsambo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Feel real sorry for this guy

https://twitter.com/thepaulwilliams/status/1051850859427053569?s=19

Arm breaks aren't a usual rugby injury. What's he doing I wonder.

Is it the same arm?

If he had metalwork put in on a break and broke the same bone it's really problematic.

Burkie1203

prawnsambo wrote: »

Arm breaks aren't a usual rugby injury. What's he doing I wonder.

Billy - arm break
Mako - calf/Achilles
Isiekwe - ankle
Maro - broken nose
George - broken nose

Costly weekend

Burkie1203

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is it the same arm?

If he had metalwork put in on a break and broke the same bone it's really problematic.

No other one this time

ScrubsfanChris

To get back to Freddie Burns for a minute, I thought a showboating Bath player looked familiar :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXM96VTilmM

*Best quality I could find

Burkie1203

Interesting stuff

https://twitter.com/CharlieFelix/status/1051757802362826753?s=19

errlloyd

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

To get back to Freddie Burns for a minute, I thought a showboating Bath player looked familiar :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXM96VTilmM

*Best quality I could find

That's the tackle that stopped Wasps getting relegated IIRC.

Burkie1203

errlloyd wrote: »

That's the tackle that stopped Wasps getting relegated IIRC.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/9219622/Newcastle-the-real-losers-as-Wasps-grab-crucial-bonus-point-in-Premiership-defeat-to-Bath.html

Neil3030

You'd imagine PRL will eventually extend the salary cap, or make some sort of allowance for teams that qualify for Europe. Their league is just too tough / attritional for squads of the current size to compete in both tournaments.

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

You'd imagine PRL will eventually extend the salary cap, or make some sort of allowance for teams that qualify for Europe. Their league is just too tough / attritional for squads of the current size to compete in both tournaments.

Any info available on the number of players each side used last season?

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Interesting stuff

https://twitter.com/CharlieFelix/status/1051757802362826753?s=19

Some daft and frankly arrogant guff online since the weekend but it's been brewing since last season to be honest.

At the root of it all is probably a good deal of frustration from players, supporters, pundits and managers that the structure of rugby in England is leading to greater mediocrity and a weaker product over all.

The RFU have some soul searching to do on the future of the English game, the irony however being they've sold that soul to club shareholders.

errlloyd

Surely someone just ****ed up the market and it will correct itself eventually. I mean, there is enough money in the salary cap to have a competitive squad it just seems that a load of players are over-valued.

Neil3030

A massive benefit of the provincial academies is how cheaply you can put together a 2nd tier XV, or pad out the starting XV in an injury crisis.

At any given time you have promising youngsters on their first contracts, or lads who are happy to live in their home town, play for their childhood team and basically stick around and make up the numbers. Either way, you get these players at a significant discount to a player you need to convince to move either across the country or from another country.

So for me, it's not star wages that are crippling the English clubs, it's the wages of the next tier down.

They could fix this by improving their academies of course, but I am beginning to think the economics of a productive academy don't compute with a competitive private club model, i.e., no one single club can afford the scale without going seriously into debt (Sarries). Irish provincial academies get a lot of help from the central branch, same in NZ, I think.

Bridge93

They extend the salary cap in England to let them run up even more debt? Regardless of whether the cap is seen as too low or not, 95% of the clubs can’t afford to spend more money with taking on more debt. The cash isn’t there

Neil3030

Bridge93 wrote: »

They extend the salary cap in England to let them run up even more debt? Regardless of whether the cap is seen as too low or not, 95% of the clubs can’t afford to spend more money with taking on more debt. The cash isn’t there

Depends what kind of debt they have. Is the debt increasing each year due to wages exceeding income? Then yeah, expanding the cap mightn't be the best idea. But if the debt is servicing things like stadium or academy development, and an increased cap can be managed within current income levels, then it's a different story.

Iompair

Neil3030 wrote: »

Bridge93 wrote: »

They extend the salary cap in England to let them run up even more debt? Regardless of whether the cap is seen as too low or not, 95% of the clubs can’t afford to spend more money with taking on more debt. The cash isn’t there

Depends what kind of debt they have. Is the debt increasing each year due to wages exceeding income? Then yeah, expanding the cap mightn't be the best idea. But if the debt is servicing things like stadium or academy development, and an increased cap can be managed within current income levels, then it's a different story.

Yep not all debt is bad. Chatting to a few fans though they worry that the money from an increased salary cap will just go to a handful of stars to bring in the casual crowd rather than deepening the squad.

pickarooney

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

To get back to Freddie Burns for a minute, I thought a showboating Bath player looked familiar :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXM96VTilmM

*Best quality I could find

It's one of the best tackles I've ever seen.

Boscoirl

I prefer the one on Will Carling

https://youtu.be/rMSAb7YQ9RQ

molloyjh

Neil3030 wrote: »

A massive benefit of the provincial academies is how cheaply you can put together a 2nd tier XV, or pad out the starting XV in an injury crisis.

At any given time you have promising youngsters on their first contracts, or lads who are happy to live in their home town, play for their childhood team and basically stick around and make up the numbers. Either way, you get these players at a significant discount to a player you need to convince to move either across the country or from another country.

So for me, it's not star wages that are crippling the English clubs, it's the wages of the next tier down.

They could fix this by improving their academies of course, but I am beginning to think the economics of a productive academy don't compute with a competitive private club model, i.e., no one single club can afford the scale without going seriously into debt (Sarries). Irish provincial academies get a lot of help from the central branch, same in NZ, I think.

Are you Alex Shaw?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/englands-elite-stumble-in-champions-cup-yet-again-and-why-its-time-to-act

razorblunt

Billy V has come out saying he was rushed back from injury and had reported that he felt pain in the arm he's now broken after the game against Quins.

Burkie1203

razorblunt wrote: »

Billy V has come out saying he was rushed back from injury and had reported that he felt pain in the arm he's now broken after the game against Quins.

English pundits complain about Irish system
English pundits complain about the game going soft
English pundits complain.

English pundits are generally morons

Neil3030

molloyjh wrote: »

Are you Alex Shaw?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/englands-elite-stumble-in-champions-cup-yet-again-and-why-its-time-to-act

No.

I need to replace Luke Shaw in my FPL team though, so perhaps there is a tenuous link?

troyzer

razorblunt wrote: »

Billy V has come out saying he was rushed back from injury and had reported that he felt pain in the arm he's now broken after the game against Quins.

Wow.

pickarooney

Billy should quit international rugby and join Dragons.

Eod100

Are Virgin Media and Channel 4 always going to be showing the same game? Both showing Munster v Gloucester this weekend. Seems a bit odd if that's the case

The Lost Sheep

Eod100 wrote: »

Are Virgin Media and Channel 4 always going to be showing the same game? Both showing Munster v Gloucester this weekend. Seems a bit odd if that's the case

No it isnt odd. Makes sense from BT perspective. Theyd hardly want to have 2 games with people watching on free to air. One a weekend for them makes sense.

troyzer

Eod100 wrote: »

Are Virgin Media and Channel 4 always going to be showing the same game? Both showing Munster v Gloucester this weekend. Seems a bit odd if that's the case

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

No it isnt odd. Makes sense from BT perspective. Theyd hardly want to have 2 games with people watching on free to air. One a weekend for them makes sense.

From a British perspective, they're simply showing one game free to air for two different TV stations in two different markets.

Does anyone have a link to what Vunipola said and in what context? That's a serious accusation to make, put another way - he's accused his employer of negligence resulting in a serious enough injury. Them are fighting words and I'd be interested to know how that statement was communicated.

troyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to what Vunipola said and in what context? That's a serious accusation to make, put another way - he's accused his employer of negligence resulting in a serious enough injury. Them are fighting words and I'd be interested to know how that statement was communicated.

Can't find anything on it either but isn't this the third time he's broken an arm in less than a year?

Burkie1203

troyzer wrote: »

Can't find anything on it either but isn't this the third time he's broken an arm in less than a year?

He has broken his other arm this time tho

https://twitter.com/Sam_sportsnews/status/1051853309965950977?s=19

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

Can't find anything on it either but isn't this the third time he's broken an arm in less than a year?

I'm not sure. It's the second time anyway but I thought someone had said it was the other arm this time.

Burkie1203

Alex Lozowski cited for 2 separate incidents

https://twitter.com/AlexMLowe/status/1052170887468867584?s=19

troyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure. It's the second time anyway but I thought someone had said it was the other arm this time.

Seems like it was. He broke his right arm twice and this is his left.

But clearly he broke it already against Quinns and was playing injured.

aloooof

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to what Vunipola said and in what context? That's a serious accusation to make, put another way - he's accused his employer of negligence resulting in a serious enough injury. Them are fighting words and I'd be interested to know how that statement was communicated.

Huge accusation if accurate, along the same lines as Cudmore with Clermont.

He's previously said he'd be in favour of taking a pay cut to reduce the number of games, so is clearly in favour of player welfare.

OldRio

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Alex Lozowski cited for 2 separate incidents

https://twitter.com/AlexMLowe/stature /1052170887468867584?s=19

That doesn't surprise me. On a number of occasions he went flying into rucks like a missile.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure. It's the second time anyway but I thought someone had said it was the other arm this time.

The Indo report (I know :rolleyes:) said it was his third arm break this year. Not finding anything to dispute that.

razorblunt

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to what Vunipola said and in what context? That's a serious accusation to make, put another way - he's accused his employer of negligence resulting in a serious enough injury. Them are fighting words and I'd be interested to know how that statement was communicated.

It was on twitter that I saw it can't remember which journo, let me see if I can dig it out, hopefully I threw a like on it.


Found it:

https://twitter.com/Sam_sportsnews/status/1051853309965950977

Squidgy Black

razorblunt wrote: »

It was on twitter that I saw it can't remember which journo, let me see if I can dig it out, hopefully I threw a like on it.

Sam Peters of the Sunday Times. No direct quote though and hasn't been said anywhere else I don't think.

Burkie1203

razorblunt wrote: »

It was on twitter that I saw it can't remember which journo, let me see if I can dig it out, hopefully I threw a like on it.

I posted the tweet above from Sam Peters

razorblunt

That Lozowski ruck entry is ridiculous, right in front of the ref too.

MJohnston

razorblunt wrote: »

It was on twitter that I saw it can't remember which journo, let me see if I can dig it out, hopefully I threw a like on it.


Found it:

https://twitter.com/Sam_sportsnews/status/1051853309965950977

You're misreading the tweet - he's saying that Billy V has said he was rushed back in the past (he came back from his last arm break in the summer), not that he just said it about this break.

Squidgy Black

MJohnston wrote: »

You're misreading the tweet - he's saying that Billy V has said he was rushed back in the past (he came back from his last arm break in the summer), not that he just said it about this break.

I'd say read it again. What was reported is that Vunipola is saying he felt like he was rushed back previously from injury, and complained about his arm last week but was still played regardless. Which is what razorblunt said.

If true, it's fairly damning of Saracens and saying that they don't take player welfare as seriously as they should do.

MJohnston

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'd say read it again. What was reported is that Vunipola is saying he felt like he was rushed back previously from injury, and complained about his arm last week but was still played regardless. Which is what razorblunt said.

If true, it's fairly damning of Saracens and saying that they don't take player welfare as seriously as they should do.

Look - I'm just pointing out that I think the Tweet suggests that Vunipola made the 'rushed' complaint in the past. Others here are trying to find an interview where Vunipola has said that in the last couple of days - which I don't think exists.

troyzer

MJohnston wrote: »

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'd say read it again. What was reported is that Vunipola is saying he felt like he was rushed back previously from injury, and complained about his arm last week but was still played regardless. Which is what razorblunt said.

If true, it's fairly damning of Saracens and saying that they don't take player welfare as seriously as they should do.

Look - I'm just pointing out that I think the Tweet suggests that Vunipola made the 'rushed' complaint in the past. Others here are trying to find an interview where Vunipola has said that in the last couple of days - which I don't think exists.

He's saying two different things.

He was rushed back from his previous arm break.

He also complained about arm pain last week and yet played on Sunday

These are two unrelated incidents, he's using both to highlight how ****ty Saracens are.

Burkie1203

MJohnston wrote: »

Look - I'm just pointing out that I think the Tweet suggests that Vunipola made the 'rushed' complaint in the past. Others here are trying to find an interview where Vunipola has said that in the last couple of days - which I don't think exists.

The tweet is saying Billy V complained of a pain in his arm after the game v Quins which was October 6th

It's a bit vague on whether the pain he complained of last week was in same arm he broke this week though.