Ireland v Australia - 2nd test, how the expected starting XVs compare.

PhlegmyMoses

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Good game and great win. Very entertaining.

Have to say that this morning on here has been a real eye-opener. I would have said that the Poms were the biggest wingers in sports but I think you Paddies have taken that title today. I suppose you do like beating the English so well done

On the yellow cards:
I think if Furlong doesn't score the Aussies would have been given one. It's something that does annoy me. Most refs seem to wipe the slate clean when a try is scored. I think he should have still carded one of them after the try but that almost never happens.
Foley's deliberate knock-on, I can understand no card. It's a dynamic situation and an instinctive re-action. I don't think the Aussies could complain if he did get carded by understand why he didn't.
McGrath was lying down at the bottom of the ruck and knew exactly what he was doing. It wasn't instinctive. 100% yellow card.

Now lads, chill out, enjoy the win (first in Australia in nearly 40 years) have a beer/wine/whiskey, kick back and enjoy the day of rugby and roundball. Cheers.

The problem with your take on the Foley incident is that you are looking at it in isolation. When looked at with the context of them having already done that in their own half, multiple ref warnings because they were infringing and then an Ireland player getting carded it causes frustration. Had Australia gone down to 10 on the Frulong try, it's game over. Instead we had phase after phase of bone crushing defence and Australia being allowed to continually push the envelope in the knowledge that the ref probably won't card.

Its a nice win but it was a frustrating morning.

WeleaseWoderick

Abril Flabby Scarecrow wrote: »

We should have won that by 15 or 20 points. Which is a worry imo, we need to convert dominance into points much better.

I think we would have if they weren't allowed to consistently infringe without a card.

Very hard to turn pressure into a try when the opposition keep illegally stopping you. Thankfully we kept the scoreline ticking up with the penalty kicks anyway.

Minderbinder

Referees in Rugby are more like conductors. They dictate the play to the point of being the most important people on the pitch.

They could probably find a penalty in every single phase if they wanted to and if they give a few obvious penalties in a row to one side you just know they’re going to find something, anything at all to penalise the other side. It’s just so orchestrated.

Great performance from Ireland. They really cut out all the silly mistakes from last week and made it impossible for Australia to get any momentum. Still, next week they’ll have to be more clinical because I think there’ll be a reaction from Australia.

kuang1

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Good game and great win. Very entertaining.

On the yellow cards:
I think if Furlong doesn't score the Aussies would have been given one. It's something that does annoy me. Most refs seem to wipe the slate clean when a try is scored. I think he should have still carded one of them after the try but that almost never happens.

This, this and this again.

Another example of inconsistent reffing. (Not just today I mean.)
A penalty try will often come with a yellow card, so why not a try scored from play?

Shefwedfan

Abril Flabby Scarecrow wrote: »

We should have won that by 15 or 20 points. Which is a worry imo, we need to convert dominance into points much better.

How can Ireland expect to score try or gain momentum when Australia are constantly infridging and been let away with it

It is a disgrace and ruining the game.....

It was right for yellow and penalty try against Ireland

But what the hell was the problem with doing the same with Australia done it? absolute joke and ruined the game

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

The problem with your take on the Foley incident is that you are looking at it in isolation. When looked at with the context of them having already done that in their own half, multiple ref warnings because they were infringing and then an Ireland player getting carded it causes frustration. Had Australia gone down to 10 on the Frulong try, it's game over. Instead we had phase after phase of bone crushing defence and Australia being allowed to continually push the envelope in the knowledge that the ref probably won't card.

Its a nice win but it was a frustrating morning.

Sending 5 of their players off is a bit extreme, even by Irish standards.

shootermacg

vienne86 wrote: »

So Joe says Carbery came on for .........Dev........hmmmm.

Joey better watch out or he might get no game time at 10 for Munster, what with calling the line-out from fullback!

Buer

Who was MOTM? Someone on here saying it was POM but the Indo says Furlong was given the award. Both worthy recipients.

Skyfloater

It's a pity Porter gave away such a high profile penalty when he came on, advance John Ryan I think. Toner really showed his value in the line out today.

Former Former

Lads.

We won. A first win in Australia in 39 years. We played the better rugby. We turned things around massively in the space of a week. We were 7-0 down inside two minutes and we didn't panic.

There is so much to be positive about.

Anthracite

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Had Australia gone down to 10 on the Frulong try, it's game over.

Yeah, a five man advantage would probably have seen us home.

Clegg

The press say Genia has broken his arm and will have surgery tomorrow. That's his series over.

Synode

Anyone see what happened Leavy? Will he be back next week?

Great win. Thoroughly deserved but my heart was in my mouth the last 5 minutes

mangobob

Buer wrote: »

Fair enough. That hardly warrants this though:

Its honestly how I see it now, but in fairness I'm hangry and very sober. In my case neither of those are conducive to diplomatic and dispassionate analysis. Come back after lunch and a few beers and I will probably be more forgiving.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Good game and great win. Very entertaining.

Have to say that this morning on here has been a real eye-opener. I would have said that the Poms were the biggest wingers in sports but I think you Paddies have taken that title today. I suppose you do like beating the English so well done

Sorry but even in that department the AB's are the best in the world I was in New Zealand after their world cup loss to France. It was the Krakatoa of whining. Nothing I have ever seen before or since even begins to approach that level and it lasted for years afterwards. Even today, my kiwi in laws virtually spit on the ground when Wayne Barnes name get mentioned :pac:

Now lads, chill out, enjoy the win (first in Australia in nearly 40 years) have a beer/wine/whiskey, kick back and enjoy the day of rugby and roundball. Cheers.

Sage advice.

Buer

Skyfloater wrote: »

It's a pity Porter gave away such a high profile penalty when he came on, advance John Ryan I think. Toner really showed his value in the line out today.

I'm not sure he did. We lost a few and he runs it so he always has to carry some blame for that. Also one off the top was sloppy and threw it to the deck. We rarely even challenged their ball aside from POM twice. He has definitely had better days at the line out, I thought and made a mess of the first kick off.

He was good generally though. Got through a huge number of rucks, levering people off the Irish ball. Took one restart brilliantly too before being pinged for holding out more due to the support being poor than any fault of his.

Anthracite

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/dominant-ireland-send-series-to-a-decider-with-drought-breaking-win-20180616-p4zlux.html

Young gun Ireland winger Keith Earls broke the game open in the 49th minute, taking a short ball just inside half way and belting down field to within striking distance of the try line.

I know 40 is the new 30, but I didn't realise 30 was the new 20.

PhlegmyMoses

Anthracite wrote: »

Yeah, a five man advantage would probably have seen us home.

Haha, I'm back watching football so brain in is round ball mode. Some day for sport all the same

bilston

Great win.

Furlong and Ringrose were outstanding.

On another day and with a other referee we would have won by a lot more.

Clegg

James Ryan was every bit as good as last week. He's the best second row in Ireland by a mile. That's not a slight on Toner or Henderson either. They're both quality players.

Former Former

In other positives, Toner was good but James Ryan is going to be an all-time great, he's only 21 and he's​ incredible, ANOTHER 80 minute stint.

POM was awesome, Furlong was just Furlong. Thought Jordi had a good display when he came on too.

Midfield looks so much better with Ringrose at 13. Henshaw definitely looked the better for it.

Earls and Kearney keep producing the goods, both excellent. Larmour still finding his feet but did nothing wrong. Your heart would break for Conway, poor bastard.

Elvisjuice

Buer wrote: »

Who was MOTM? Someone on here saying it was POM but the Indo says Furlong was given the award. Both worthy recipients.

powers paid out on Furlong

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

James Ryan was every bit as good as last week. He's the best second row in Ireland by a mile. That's not a slight on Toner or Henderson either. They're both quality players.

And he's an absolute dog as well. When asked about his first loss he said it was a silver lining so that 'other' people would stop going on about it.

He's our Martin Johnson with better hands and more mobility. You can't win a world cup without a players like him.

We're gonna win the world cup.

PhlegmyMoses

Former Former wrote: »

In other positives, Toner was good but James Ryan is going to be an all-time great, he's only 21 and he's​ incredible, ANOTHER 80 minute stint.

POM was awesome, Furlong was just Furlong. Thought Jordi had a good display when he came on too.

Midfield looks so much better with Ringrose at 13. Henshaw definitely looked the better for it.

Earls and Kearney keep producing the goods, both excellent. Larmour still finding his feet but did nothing wrong. Your heart would break for Conway, poor bastard.

Ryan, Toner, Henderson and Beirne is as strong as we've ever been for second row options imo.

razorblunt

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Ryan, Toner, Henderson and Beirne is as strong as we've ever been for second row options imo.

A blessing for those of us who grew up watching the Malcolm O'Kelly and Gary Longwell years.

PTH2009

It's always a good day when we win down under

Rare enough, next week will be some match and please please don't end in a draw and we share the series lol

DDC1990

Elvisjuice wrote:

powers paid out on Furlong

Wow. Furlong was good but O'Mahony dominated the game. He was head and shoulders above anyone else IMO. Eapecially he was up against Pocock and Hooper. A real captains roll this week.

Buer

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Ryan, Toner, Henderson and Beirne is as strong as we've ever been for second row options imo.

I thought Beirne was a little quiet, to be honest. He very nearly was the villain but took his man down at the second attempt.

I'll reserve judgement on him at this level until we see a few games from him. At the moment though, I don't think he's making our 23.

Buer

razorblunt wrote: »

A blessing for those of watching the Malcolm O'Kelly and Gary Longwell.

Very harsh on MOK who was a superb player.

PhlegmyMoses

Buer wrote: »

I thought Beirne was a little quiet, to be honest. He very nearly was the villain but took his man down at the second attempt.

I'll reserve judgement on him at this level until we see a few games from him. At the moment though, I don't think he's making our 23.

No, and he might be better in the even more competitive back row even. But on paper those are some nice options.

CurryFlavoured

Great performance, I thought we dominated the game. But it is disconcerting to think that despite all of our possession, territory and penalty advantages, Aus had the ball and were within a score of us at the end. We should have been further ahead.


On the flip side, it's amazing that as fans we're in a position where we expect to beat Aus on their own turf. We're blessed with a really excellent team and coaching staff right now

letowski

Former Former wrote:

Midfield looks so much better with Ringrose at 13. Henshaw definitely looked the better for it.

I thought Ringrose was probably the biggest difference from last week. Rock solid on defense and carried/distributed very well in attack. Aki/Farrell have made very solid contributions for Ireland these last 12 months but Henshaw and Ringrose is definitely our best midfield for me.

ScrubsfanChris

Clegg wrote: »

The press say Genia has broken.hia arm.and.will.have surgery tomorrow. That's his series over.

The minute a temperary cast was going on his arm and not an ice pack you knew it was bad.
Big loss for them.

Burkie1203

Loads of positives. Henshaw and Ringrose is by far our best centre pairing

Scannell staying healthy will be a huge positive. Toner has really developed his game hugely in the last 2 seasons.

Thought Murray had a shocker today.

Ref was a joke. WR can help the situation by introducing mandatory YC after X number of penalties in your own 22. I can only remember 3 or 4 penalties conceded by Ireland in their own 22. Australia must have been double that at least and received 2/3 warnings and the card count was 2-0 in Australia's favour

Buer

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

The minute a temperary cast was going on his arm and not an ice pack you knew it was bad.
Big loss for them.

Big blow to Australia. He is a far better player than Phipps.

Was Beale's departure tactical? I was surprised to see him go off.

joseywhales

Deleted User wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

James Ryan was every bit as good as last week. He's the best second row in Ireland by a mile. That's not a slight on Toner or Henderson either. They're both quality players.

And he's an absolute dog as well. When asked about his first loss he said it was a silver lining so that 'other' people would stop going on about it.

He's our Martin Johnson with better hands and more mobility. You can't win a world cup without a players like him.

We're gonna win the world cup.

You just had to say it

cython

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Loads of positives. Henshaw and Ringrose is by far our best centre pairing

Scannell staying healthy will be a huge positive. Toner has really developed his game hugely in the last 2 seasons.

Thought Murray had a shocker today.

Ref was a joke. WR can help the situation by introducing mandatory YC after X number of penalties in your own 22. I can only remember 3 or 4 penalties conceded by Ireland in their own 22. Australia must have been double that at least and received 2/3 warnings and the card count was 2-0 in Australia's favour

2-1, lest you forget the tackle on Kearney....... We put up 13 points while they had a player in the bin.

May Contain Small Parts

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Ref was a joke. WR can help the situation by introducing mandatory YC after X number of penalties in your own 22. I can only remember 3 or 4 penalties conceded by Ireland in their own 22. Australia must have been double that at least and received 2/3 warnings and the card count was 2-0 in Australia's favour

IMO there's been a bit of a trend over the last 1-2 years of refs rarely giving cards for repeated infringement.

On the other hand they're more likely to give them for dangerous play.

squawker

DDC1990 wrote: »

Wow. Furlong was good but O'Mahony dominated the game. He was head and shoulders above anyone else IMO.

still laughing at some posts here after last weeks test

saying POM isn't good enough and does nothing around the pitch

Pudsy33

What exactly happened to Genia? Apparently the Aussies aren't happy but I can't recall the incident at all.

errlloyd

Ringrose undefeated season marches on.

POM was obviously excellent today, but was he a bit lucky? 3 turnovers, his first looked like he had hands on the deck before the ball, and the third he didn't look on his feet? Also thought we get penalised for throwing him at Pocock in the lineout. Annoying given his earlier penalty at the lineout.

bilston

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Loads of positives. Henshaw and Ringrose is by far our best centre pairing

Scannell staying healthy will be a huge positive. Toner has really developed his game hugely in the last 2 seasons.

Thought Murray had a shocker today.

Ref was a joke. WR can help the situation by introducing mandatory YC after X number of penalties in your own 22. I can only remember 3 or 4 penalties conceded by Ireland in their own 22. Australia must have been double that at least and received 2/3 warnings and the card count was 2-0 in Australia's favour

Clearly I'm going to look at things through green tinted spectacles but I thought we were on the wrong side of a few dubious calls by the officials today.

I've no complaints on McGrath's yellow but Foley alone must have given away 3 cynical penalties in the second half so can count himself lucky not to have been binned. I also reckon there should have been a card for off the ball hit on Ryan in the first half. Anyway we won so I'll not lose any sleep over it.

The series is set up well. No time for experimentation next week. Hopefully Leavy is ok.

Bridge93

Pudsy33 wrote: »

What exactly happened to Genia? Apparently the Aussies aren't happy but I can't recall the incident at all.

He was hit off the ball and broke his arm. Having surgery tomorrow

Buer

squawker wrote: »

still laughing at some posts here after last weeks test

saying POM isn't good enough and does nothing around the pitch

POM was good last week and brilliant today.

But they're probably the two best performances of his entire season, to be honest. With the incredible level of competition in the Irish back row, no player's spot is guaranteed.

It's also curious that he has been taken off in his last 5 internationals. I'd have him in my starting side definitely but I'm not sure Schmidt sees any back row as being untouchable in the same manner as guys like Furlong, Sexton, Murray etc.

flatty

The refereeing bias is the the hapenny place to the absolute rodgering France have had over the years. We should keep things in perspective. Great win. I expected more from Australia tbh.
Looking forward to the SA England this afternoon. I don't think England can improve that much, they played pretty much to potential last week, but we'll see. We, on the other hand, were transformed. I'm not sure why, as actually we looked worse last week when sexton came on, but in truth he has always a big game starter rather than a big game changer (I mean that in a good way).

razorblunt

Buer wrote: »

Very harsh on MOK who was a superb player.

I wouldn't say superb he flew out of the blocks and then didn't do much for the majority of his caps. In my opinion of course.

Tigerandahalf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We're gonna win the world cup.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic but I'd be very surprised if we win it. I'd be very worried about our ability to create and finish off opportunities.
The Earls break today was beautiful but we don't do it often enough. Off turnover ball we are extremely poor at recognising the space available and putting a player away into it.

Our attack is still far too reliant on phases of trucking the ball up. We have turned into England trying to bash our way over the line.

With the short turn around between games in the World Cup we will end up knackered and down in player numbers by the knockout stages as we are going into contact too often instead of attacking the space in front of us.

On several occasions today we had possession and were going over and back across the field without threatening a line break. We are hugely reliant on the kick chase to gain territory.

The positives are a solid scrum and lineout with great backup for both areas. Our control at half back is very good and the backup is quite decent especially if Cooney is reserve 9 as he could take penalty duties from Carberry.

We have good depth in the backrow and centres.
Full back is the one area where Schimdt needs to blood someone since Zebo is out of the picture. Conway if ok should be given the call to start at FB. I even wouldn't mind giving Earls a try there as he has improved a lot in the air and would be a lot stronger on the counter if given the freedom by Schmidt.

So overall we have a great squad. I think NZ are the only side to match us there but their attacking/converting off turnovers is miles ahead of us unfortunately.

Just to add: Dan Leavy looks a super competitive player but today was not the first time he was done for pace on the channel outside the ruck.

Burkie1203

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Not sure if you are being sarcastic but I'd be very surprised if we win it. I'd be very worried about our ability to create and finish off opportunities.
The Earls break today was beautiful but we don't do it often enough. Off turnover ball we are extremely poor at recognising the space available and putting a player away into it.

Our attack is still far too reliant on phases of trucking the ball up. We have turned into England trying to bash our way over the line.

With the short turn around between games in the World Cup we will end up knackered and down in player numbers by the knockout stages as we are going into contact too often instead of attacking the space in front of us.

On several occasions today we had possession and were going over and back across the field without threatening a line break. We are hugely reliant on the kick chase to gain territory.

The positives are a solid scrum and lineout with great backup for both areas. Our control at half back is very good and the backup is quite decent especially if Cooney is reserve 9 as he could take penalty duties from Carberry.

We have good depth in the backrow and centres.
Full back is the one area where Schimdt needs to blood someone since Zebo is out of the picture. Conway if ok should be given the call to start at FB. I even wouldn't mind giving Earls a try there as he has improved a lot in the air and would be a lot stronger on the counter if given the freedom by Schmidt.

So overall we have a great squad. I think NZ are the only side to match us there but their attacking/converting off turnovers is miles ahead of us unfortunately.

Leave Earls on the wing.

shootermacg

https://soundcloud.com/green-and-gold-rugby

I await this pod cast with glee.

Buer

razorblunt wrote: »

I wouldn't say superb he flew out of the blocks and then didn't do much for the majority of his caps. In my opinion of course.

I would. He was a stalwart for years and still delivering for Ireland long after his debut.

I think it said a lot that when a Jake White team came to town he said POC, BOD and MOK were the only players good enough to make the SA team. That was the same season he took apart England in Twickenham and destroyed their line out. He had about 60 caps at that point.

Buer

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Just to add: Dan Leavy looks a super competitive player but today was not the first time he was done for pace on the channel outside the ruck.

He could have done better but there was nothing about pace involved in his role. His man was Foley. Sexton was lined up against Beale and Stander was the cover.

Leavy couldn't react with enough agility to take Beale (it was a lovely line though), Sexton was completely taken out of the picture and Stander was too slow across.