HKC Sold!!

KoolKid

Interesting development to the market.

http://www.professionalsecurity.co.uk/news/commercial-security/assa-abloy-acquires-hkc/

kub

For someone who constantly knocks them i am surprised at your interest.

bk

That is interesting, so the same company who owns Yale and their security systems.

KoolKid

bk wrote: »

That is interesting, so the same company who owns Yale and their security systems.

Thats what I thought. Those fancy end user packaging might be making sense now. Might be seeing those panels on the shelves of B&Q and Homebase.

kub

Are Abloy Assa locks available in such places?

Also that " fancy packaging " did not just appear tonight did it.?

That must be on the go for the last 4 years now, so please explain your comment.

bk

KoolKid wrote: »

Thats what I thought. Those fancy end user packaging might be making sense now. Might be seeing those panels on the shelves of B&Q and Homebase.

Yep. I was just thinking if they combined the solid hardware of HKC, with the well known Yale brand and brought in some Smart Home integration smarts from their relationship with Nest then it would make for a powerful combo.

Makes sense given the way the market is going. Though they will have to drop the monitoring charge, that won't fly. And perhaps redesigned wireless panel for the more DIY market.

kub wrote: »

Are Abloy Assa locks available in such places?

Yale? Everywhere, including their alarm systems, CCTV systems, locks, etc.

kub

bk wrote:

Yale? Everywhere, including their alarm systems, CCTV systems, locks, etc.

Yes I know Yale are available as a brand in the retailers as previously mentioned.

My question is, is the Assa Abloy brand also available in these retailers also?

bk

kub wrote: »

Yes I know Yale are available as a brand in the retailers as previously mentioned.

My question is, is the Assa Abloy brand also available in these retailers also?

Ah, sorry perhaps I'm misunderstanding you?

Assa Abloy owns many brands and seem to sell under different brands in different countries, depending on what is best known in each. Yale in US/UK/Ireland, Union/Chubb in UK/Ireland, Medeco in US, etc.

You wouldn't find the Assa Abloy brand here in hardware shops as it simply isn't well known to common people, though you would certainly find Abloy locks in hardware stores all over the nordic countries.

I mentioned Yale as they are probably by far their most widely known brand with consumers and of course already make a range of security systems and are moving into the smart home arena with Google Nest and Smart locks. It makes the most sense for where HKC to end up. HKC is almost a completely unknown brand outside Ireland.

Having said all that, perhaps they will keep the brand completely separate and use it as their professional alarm system arm, while Yale does the consumer level stuff. Totally possible too. Though if they do, I hope they share and cross pollinate technology, I think both have pro's and con's that would nicely fix each others issues.

Have you any insight or thoughts that you'd like to share?

I'm genuinely interested and I think it potentially has great opportunities for HKC to grow and expand. I hope it is a good move for all the folks at HKC.

kub

Good informative post, thank you.

I reckon though that the reason Assa Abloy are not available in general retail here probably has more to do with the cost of their equipment, stuff Joe Soap would never purchase.
One that comes to mind to me is the cost of one of their electric locks, you would have a dozen mag locks for the same price. Hence they are only available in trade suppliers, for guys who know what they want or what has been specified for a job.

Great to hear that Yale have made in roads to home automation, that technology hopefully will be brought over to HKC's portfolio in the long run.

bk

kub wrote: »

Good informative post, thank you.

I reckon though that the reason Assa Abloy are not available in general retail here probably has more to do with the cost of their equipment, stuff Joe Soap would never purchase.
One that comes to mind to me is the cost of one of their electric locks, you would have a dozen mag locks for the same price. Hence they are only available in trade suppliers, for guys who know what they want or what has been specified for a job.

Yep, that would make sense. Lots of companies have different brands, aimed at different markets and price points with different distribution channels.

It will be very interesting to see what they do with HKC and where they position them.

I'd agree that the current HKC products aren't really "consumer oriented". The Yale Smart Alarms are more consumer oriented. But I think both could benefit from technology sharing.

kub wrote: »

Great to hear that Yale have made in roads to home automation, that technology hopefully will be brought over to HKC's portfolio in the long run.

Yes, they seem to be positioning Yale as their smart home tech brand. In the US, they are doing cross branded Smart Locks with Google Nest that integrate with Nest Cameras and security systems.

https://nest.com/lock/nest-yale-lock-key-free-smart-lock/overview/

In the UK they have been doing some limited HA stuff with their "Smart Alarm Systems" but so far it is pretty limited to a smart plug and smoke detectors.

You can kind of partly "hack" it to work with the wider SmartThings ecosystem.

All seems a bit early days yet, but definitely steps in the right direction. Would be great to see the same tech end up in HKC panels.

kub

Overall the general consensus is this is great development for HKC, from installers and staff there.


No doubt integration with home automation is the future and it is great that we have a quality Irish manufacturer being taken over by a quality International manufacturer with plenty of experience in future technologies.

bk

kub wrote: »

Overall the general consensus is this is great development for HKC, from installers and staff there.

No doubt integration with home automation is the future and it is great that we have a quality Irish manufacturer being taken over by a quality International manufacturer with plenty of experience in future technologies.

Brilliant, I'm delighted to hear it. I've been through a few mergers myself and they can be a bit worrying and bumpy at first, different corporate cultures, etc. but they often work out to be great opportunities in the end.

I hope it goes well for them and I can't wait to see what comes out of it.

Drifter50

Interesting development alright, ASSA Abloy are the Swedish IKEA of the security business. The Abloy locks are only for sale through the distributors and are aimed at the very top end of the physical and electric locking business.

Unusual move for ASSA Abloy, they have only just finished disentangling themselves from the Securitas Group. However it looks like they were maybe looking for a new direction or opportunity.

All us installers got an e-mail from the MD this afternoon saying the deal was done last Friday evening. All will remain as is and nothing changes according to Gerry Kelly. Well we will watch this space.

My slant on this is different from some of you guys. Its been clear for some time that HKC had gone as far as they could in Ireland and could`nt get anymore substantial growth in Ireland. They have failed to crack the UK market so far and they need to grow to evolve so I guess that ASSA Abloy see the opportunity in the UK market and thats where they are going to focus. As a result they will leave Ireland alone as such but it will be interesting to see if they rebrand the name.

Don`t see them going downwards to the DIY stores tho

bk

Drifter50 wrote: »

Unusual move for ASSA Abloy, they have only just finished disentangling themselves from the Securitas Group. However it looks like they were maybe looking for a new direction or opportunity.

The way that I expect the market will go over the next few years, specially at the high end, is smart locks which will be integrated with security systems, access control, CCTV, etc.

Combining very high quality locks, with a high quality alarm system hardware and a sprinkling of smart tech and you could have real interesting solutions.

Drifter50 wrote: »

My slant on this is different from some of you guys. Its been clear for some time that HKC had gone as far as they could in Ireland and could`nt get anymore substantial growth in Ireland. They have failed to crack the UK market so far and they need to grow to evolve so I guess that ASSA Abloy see the opportunity in the UK market and thats where they are going to focus. As a result they will leave Ireland alone as such but it will be interesting to see if they rebrand the name.

The effects of Brexit could be in the back of HKC minds too. ASSA Abloy could help avoid that and give them a leg in to other EU markets.

They seem to have a strong presence in the UK market at the consumer DIY level with their Yale kit sold on Amazon, B&Q, etc. and it seems to review very well.

They don't seem to have much of a presence at the professional install market there and their Yale kit lacks shock sensors, so maybe there are where HKC will fit in the UK for them.

Drifter50 wrote: »

Don`t see them going downwards to the DIY stores tho

Yes, I'd agree, not with their current product range anyway, I don't think it would really be suited to the consumer DIY market.

davidconroy46

Hkc needed that sell out, not know to much outside Ireland.big company who makes yale etc, should make the buy over work well. Hopefully the way the market has gone they might do away with the payn app and yearly fee.

kub

davidconroy46 wrote:

Hkc needed that sell out, not know to much outside Ireland.big company who makes yale etc, should make the buy over work well. Hopefully the way the market has gone they might do away with the payn app and yearly fee.

I can't see that happening, that App is head and shoulders above anything else available.
You get what you pay for.
HKC are head and shoulders above every other manufacturer in the quality of their products, their dependability and their back up service.
Little wonder an International company of the calibre that Assa Abloy are came and bought them.

KoolKid

There are a lot of installers that would argue with you there after 2 major outages on Securecom in so many weeks.
Certainly a good reason for them to increase their poll fail notifications down from 5 hours. I really don't understand this when the numerous free services offer 5 minutes or less.

kub

KoolKid wrote:

There are a lot of installers that would argue with you there after 2 major outages on Securecom in so many weeks. Certainly a good reason for them to increase their poll fail notifications down from 5 hours. I really don't understand this when the numerous free services offer 5 minutes or less.

I find that installers who do not have that chip on their shoulder, as you keep demonstrating throughout these threads, get it.
Unfortunately your hatred of that company keeps shining through and you never will.
We have already had discussions about the consequences of your free options.

Personally I prefer to be honest with my customers and logically a power cut / broadband issue is a lot more probable than any other issue.

Let's call it as it is, you are blinded by your hatred of HKC.

Anyway that is your issue, personally I will continue using their equipment because I know it is a quality product and is by a mile the best available in this market.
Commercial realities have to be recognised in business, perhaps some time you might have to recognise that.

KoolKid

I think we have been seeing some nice balance in this thread recently.
Is everyone questioning HKC driven by hatred???
There's also a lot of people questioning on the FB page as you know. Will you be accusing all them of hatred. 😕
HKC, GSD, Vanderbilt, UTC etc are all just company's not people. I find it strange that you take any criticism of a company so personally and accuse people of hate because they choose to look at alternative options in the market.
Anyway I suppose that is just an example of how some people push the product they want to use.
As for the free options vs paid.. All those on the free service weren't affected by a second major outage the other day.
My phone wasn't hopping all day with irate customers wondering why their alarms were not communicating. I'd say that was scary for some if this happened after an alarm event. Even scarier if it was a monitored system that went without a response.
The thing about duel path communication that is being sold to customers is that it's still going through a single path that is the services like Securecom.
Anyway, it's good to see all these issues being raised. It gives posters a good view of both sides of the differences between these services.

kub

KoolKid wrote:

I think we have been seeing some nice balance in this thread recently. Is everyone questioning HKC driven by hatred??? There's also a lot of people questioning on the FB page as you know. Will you be accusing all them of hatred. 😕 HKC, GSD, Vanderbilt, UTC etc are all just company's not people. I find it strange that you take any criticism of a company so personally and accuse people of hate because they choose to look at alternative options in the market. Anyway I suppose that is just an example of how some people push the product they want to use. As for the free options vs paid.. All those on the free service weren't affected by a second major outage the other day. My phone wasn't hopping all day with irate customers wondering why their alarms were not communicating. I'd say that was scary for some if this happened after an alarm event. Even scarier if it was a monitored system that went without a response. The thing about duel path communication that is being sold to customers is that it's still going through a single path that is the services like Securecom. Anyway, it's good to see all these issues being raised. It gives posters a good view of both sides of the differences between these services.

My oh my, I must have touched a nerve.
Grab yourself a coffee and relax.

I must go now and purchase more of that excellent HKC equipment and connect more people to their excellent securecomm service.

So let me get back to you on your post and whatever hatred driven points you raised

stuartkee

KoolKid wrote: »

I think we have been seeing some nice balance in this thread recently.
Is everyone questioning HKC driven by hatred???
There's also a lot of people questioning on the FB page as you know. Will you be accusing all them of hatred. ��
HKC, GSD, Vanderbilt, UTC etc are all just company's not people. I find it strange that you take any criticism of a company so personally and accuse people of hate because they choose to look at alternative options in the market.
Anyway I suppose that is just an example of how some people push the product they want to use.
As for the free options vs paid.. All those on the free service weren't affected by a second major outage the other day.
My phone wasn't hopping all day with irate customers wondering why their alarms were not communicating. I'd say that was scary for some if this happened after an alarm event. Even scarier if it was a monitored system that went without a response.
The thing about duel path communication that is being sold to customers is that it's still going through a single path that is the services like Securecom.
Anyway, it's good to see all these issues being raised. It gives posters a good view of both sides of the differences between these services.

I think we can all agree that you dont like or use HKC. So thats clear.
Can i ask you a question . Why did Assa Abloy want to buy HKC ? Is it that thye provide Free self monitoring ? Is it because they have a business model that works and is profitable ? Why not but GSD . It would have cost them alot less money than to buy HKC.
HKC have a product that people want to buy and a service that people are willing to pay for. Abloy bought HKC to make money and good luck to them. Im sure they will.

bk

kub wrote: »

I can't see that happening, that App is head and shoulders above anything else available.

What?! The app is nothing special from what I see, quiet old fashioned in terms of apps for modern security systems.

Just go and take a look at Nests app or ADT SmartThings app or if you want a more installer oriented panels, the apps that come with DSC iotega or Honeywell Lyric apps.

Hell even Yales app is superior.

stuartkee wrote: »

Can i ask you a question . Why did Assa Abloy want to buy HKC ? Is it that thye provide Free self monitoring ? Is it because they have a business model that works and is profitable ?

Huh, Yale (owned by Assa Alboy) security systems come with free monitoring and free app and you can be sure that Yales systems sell a hell of a lot more then HKC.

I think it is naive to think HKC's business model will continue to thrive with the likes of Google Nest, Amazon Ring, ADT SmartThings, etc. all bringing security systems to the market with free apps and monitoring.

HKC seem to make very good quality hardware. But they definitely choose the wrong path with their monitoring, just like Climote did. I think they knew that their business model doesn't have a future and that is why they have sold out to Assa Alboy.

I hope with them joining Assa there will be a healthy exchange and sharing of tech between their companies.

Yale gaining HKC sensors and HKC gaining Yales better app and free monitoring and likely the servers behind that. Would make for great products, each targeting their respective markets.

KoolKid

For the record I am not I am not commercially aligned with any systems or manufacturer.
I have lots of HKC systems installed. I have NEVER stated I don't install them
As I have have said over and over there is no system that's perfect for everything. Different options and different features for different customers needs and wants.
Imagine a world with only iPhones and no Android.
Only Fords and no Mazda.
Only Sky and no Virgin Media
Only Burger King no McDonald's

Choice is great and different people have different tastes wants and needs from a product.
If you come up with a brand that suits everyone you will be a billionaire or trillionaire.

It seems there is more blindness by love than hate.

stuartkee

bk wrote: »

What?! The app is nothing special from what I see, quiet old fashioned in terms of apps for modern security systems.

Just go and take a look at Nests app or ADT SmartThings app or if you want a more installer oriented panels, the apps that come with DSC iotega or Honeywell Lyric apps.

Hell even Yales app is superior.



Huh, Yale (owned by Assa Alboy) security systems come with free monitoring and free app and you can be sure that Yales systems sell a hell of a lot more then HKC.

I think it is naive to think HKC's business model will continue to thrive with the likes of Google Nest, Amazon Ring, ADT SmartThings, etc. all bringing security systems to the market with free apps and monitoring.

HKC seem to make very good quality hardware. But they definitely choose the wrong path with their monitoring, just like Climote did. I think they knew that their business model doesn't have a future and that is why they have sold out to Assa Alboy.

I hope with them joining Assa there will be a healthy exchange and sharing of tech between their companies.

Yale gaining HKC sensors and HKC gaining Yales better app and free monitoring and likely the servers behind that. Would make for great products, each targeting their respective markets.

Have i just looked into Nest and Ring and you get what you pay for. Access is free for 30 days and then you can view for free after 30 days of sign up for monthly charges. $ 5 for 5 day play back etc.

Ring is the same 4 $ 3 for 60 day play back single came $10 for multiple cameras.

Yale is a DIY alarm and not a graded EN insurance graded system. For what i have been told Abloy want to interrogate a Graded Alarm into Smart home and Smart door release control.

Maybe Free Wi-Fi conection but paid for back up like above. ( Yes i know , one is data storage the other is GSM connectivity) But you get my drift.

Stoner

kub wrote:

I can't see that happening, that App is head and shoulders above anything else available. You get what you pay for. HKC are head and shoulders above every other manufacturer in the quality of their products, their dependability and their back up service. Little wonder an International company of the calibre that Assa Abloy are came and bought them.

The app is not head and shoulders above everything else available.

It's a limited platform imo.

The Siemens app was well ahead of it and it played catch up, and Siemens are behind the play now too.


There is almost nothing "smart" available on the hkc app. It's a closed shop.

Where are there are much more smart options out there.

HKC are so near yet so far.

I've named some of the others before but the Irish installers are sticking just a few panels, some use just one

I've seen another panel recently with dedicated links to Arlo cctv, nest smoke alarms, Alexa, Google home etc.

I'd hope the sale will drag hkc into the world of IOT. It would be good for the industry imo.

bk

stuartkee wrote: »

Have i just looked into Nest and Ring and you get what you pay for. Access is free for 30 days and then you can view for free after 30 days of sign up for monthly charges. $ 5 for 5 day play back etc.

Ring is the same 4 $ 3 for 60 day play back single came $10 for multiple cameras.

Nest and Ring Alarm systems are both completely free for self monitoring as alarm systems.

Cellular backup understandably requires a sub.

Nest it is $5 per month for cellular backup, which sounds expensive to us, but is cheap for the US where most mobile plans costs $80 to $100 per month! US cell market really sucks.

With Ring, if you activate a sub for the cameras then it also activates the SIM as a backup comms channel. That is actually pretty cool.

Subcriptions for cloud IP cameras is understandable. Streaming and storing video is millions of times more data then simple status commands (your talking megabytes per second versus the odd kilbobit packet), massive difference and thus much more costly.

One nice thing is that they also have options for professional monitoring and it is cool that you can activate it on just a month to month basis. For instance if away on holidays. Pretty handy.

But again, this is all optional. They give you free monitoring over broadband.

stuartkee wrote: »

Yale is a DIY alarm and not a graded EN insurance graded system. For what i have been told Abloy want to interrogate a Graded Alarm into Smart home and Smart door release control.

Funny, I've bought one and I'm literally installing it today

It isn't perfect, but I'm pretty impressed so far.

Why isn't it EN certified? I don't see anything it is missing that is required by that EN cert. Not that is bothers me at all. I never put my alarm on the insurance anyway due to the issues with it.

I can easily see how combining the strengths of HKC tech, wireless sensors, with the strengths of the Yale setup would make for a great system.

stuartkee wrote: »

Maybe Free Wi-Fi conection but paid for back up like above. ( Yes i know , one is data storage the other is GSM connectivity) But you get my drift.

Yep. I agree completely. The way the world is going IMO is free app monitoring via broadband with optional paid for dual path GSM backup. It makes a lot of sense.

KoolKid

bk wrote: »

The way the world is going IMO is free app monitoring via broadband with optional paid for dual path GSM backup. It makes a lot of sense.

That is it exacty. With the further step of ARC monitoring if needed.
With decent polling it makes the free options even more attractable.
But for some reason those obsessed with the one system won't even entertain or offer that option.

Yet it's amazing how not that long ago we were selling standalone systems with no monitoring and that was perfectly acceptable. To listen to the some of the speel now they would have you convinced that's worse than no alarm and leaving the door open.

The tide is turning, and turning very quickly I,d imagine many will be left behind if they don't see the light

kub

Can we all just please concentrate on Intruder Alarm systems that comply with En50131 rather than these silly home automation things that offer a security feature that does not comply with that standard please?

As a professional who knows my profession inside out then I choose the best for my customers and me.
Right now that is HKC, it is head and shoulders above all others.
That Siemens app does not allow me to access engineering features on one of my customers systems so as basic as you might find that Stoner, I can tell you I find it very handy if I need to access a customers system in the middle of the night or urgently.
So from my point of view the HKC app is better, it may not be cool and have go faster stripes or a spoiler but it ticks all the boxes for me.

kub

KoolKid wrote:

With decent polling it makes the free options even more attractable.

Now please tell the audience.

What happens in this case if the electricity in the area where the alarm with the free options is installed fails and that premises is broken into during this time?

bk

kub wrote: »

Now please tell the audience.

What happens in this case if the electricity in the area where the alarm with the free options is installed fails and that premises is broken into during this time?

Huh, if the power goes down, Siemens will continue to work as a standard bells and lights alarm and will make lots of noise.

You will also get a notification in the app that your system is offline (quick polling).

Why don't you tell us what happens when HKC's service was down a few days ago?

Or what if a burglar uses a jammer? And HKC's 5 hours polling?

No prefect system, all trades offs, but Siemens comms and polling doesn't seem to be anything special.

KoolKid

kub wrote: »

That Siemens app does not allow me to access engineering features on one of my customers systems so as basic as you might find that Stoner, I can tell you I find it very handy if I need to access a customers system in the middle of the night or urgently.
So from my point of view the HKC app is better, it may not be cool and have go faster stripes or a spoiler but it ticks all the boxes for me.

I think you need to broaden your horizons before presuming that.
The Vanderbilt V2 portal is way ahead of anything there regarding engineer functions.
I could rattle off all the functions it has all night but you still wouldn't see it because it's not what you want to use.
Even the GSD Portal has more features than HKCs app or Smart link which looks like something from Windows 98.