Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

..

MadYaker

I think I'm just a bit burnt out on the Fromsoft experience after playing Elden Ring straight through, which I never do with games, and finishing Dark Souls 3 afterwards. This game feels quite similar only it's harder because you have none of crutches available in the other games like crazy magic or summoning help. It also drives me nuts how it's impossible to make progress in these games without looking at walkthroughs, ruins the sense of exploration. I will go back to it eventually though.

theteal

@Penn I've just done it, you only need to kill the first goon around the corner from the shrine, then pop up onto the roof and hunker-walk all the way up to the end (the little alert arrow did pop up but it never went red), hop down at the end and stroll into the lake. I made the mistake of talking to the old guy straight away and he runs into battle with the Drunk and his cronies - fire arrow guys are a pain and nearly killed me. @MadYaker you should stick to the left and get rid of the handful of guys in the building before engaging the fat pr!ck. When you do start the fight, peg it over to the lake and talk to the guy, he helps a lot, especially if it's just the Drunkard left.

nix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119838526#Comment_119838526

The gameplay is nothing like the other games, which is why its seeming overwhelmingly hard all over again, you just need to "learn" how to play this game now. I havent played elden ring yet myself, but it looks mostly similar to the souls games, so completing elden ring, you can carry over what you learned in that to all other souls games and they wont seem anywhere as difficult, as you know how to play them now..

Going into sekiro with what you learned in souls/elden wont help at all, you need to play completely different, instead of doging and windmilling in, you need to go completely on the defensive, you need to focus on just deflecting/countering your enemies attacks and breaking their guard for you to then massivley punish them.. You can try dodge and flip around and cheese the bosses as best you can, which is probably what you're trying to do right now to mush frustration, but you're eventually going to hit a boss in which that wont work on..

I was in the same boat as you, as im sure we all were playing Sekiro for the first time, i cheesed my way through the first 4-5 bosses i think before i got to a boss where i just had to learn how to play proper. And it was then after that fight that the game just clicked and became a whole lot more fun to tackle. It was much easier to proceed but still some real big but rewarding challenges

You will come across some bosses that you can approach like you would a Dark souls boss, but humanoids with steel? Get ready to make those blades sing :D

MadYaker

Gyoubo and Junou are both beaten now but I haven't progressed much further. I enjoyed fighting Gyoubo but the other fight was just annoying. Gyoubo could have dished out a bit more damage imo, I could take 4 or 5 hits from but only 1 or 2 from Junou the Drunkard. I watched walkthroughs of the early parts of Ashina Outskirts and Hirata Estates and I realised here's few things missed so I'm going back before moving forwards.

MadYaker

Also this game isn’t that different to Elden Ring or DS3. I’m having a way easier time of Sekiro than I would have if I hadn’t played through those. Deflecting and parrying feel the same. A lot of the principles are the same even if some aspects of the combat and other game mechanics differ slightly. You can tell that it runs on the same engine and was made by the same people.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880697#Comment_119880697

Dude, might want to hold off on saying that until Genichiro makes a fool of you. That's when 'real Sekiro starts here'.

johnny_ultimate

A lot of the game is very comfortably in the Fromsoft mould - from the lack of handholding to the level design to the trademark gameplay ideas like fog gates and 'bonfires' (idols). It is far from a full departure from the series standards, but nonetheless its more intense combat focus, toned-down RPG mechanics, zippier traversal, and lack of multiplayer do give it a very different flow and vibe. Like Bloodborne, it's more a variation on the established basics than a totally new thing.

I do personally reckon playing all these games in quick succession would lead to pretty rapid burnout on the formula. They're intense, time/attention-consuming games - if you're not feeling it I'd definitely recommend going away for a few months and playing something totally different. The game will still be there... but you might need to get that parry timing down again :P

petes

When I hadn't even played a Fromsoft game I started with Bloodborne, found it too hard so said fork that, went back to it and it's a fantastic game.

Sekiro was a bit the same although I did persevere with it and once as someone has said it clicks it's great although I still died loads 😀

Once you get to Genichiro, get your ass handed to you and then beat him it's so different after that, for me anyway. I also though it was enough removed from the souls games to enjoy it without comparisons

theteal

Am I the only one who fights LB first - even before Gyobu? As a new player, she's definitely harder than him (he's easiest in the game in truth) but very much forces you to get with the deflecting mechanic.

theteal

Not sure if they've patched it in the last while but Owl Father put manners on me last night (NG+5 maybe). I couldn't step through his fire-crackers like I used to, I had to back away and be more patient to finally put him down.

Edit - never mind, I just checked this old excellent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z95edG-Djw8 (hint, it's mine :D ) and I can see that I was making the mistake of going left through the firecrackers and not right as in the video. Meh still got it done if with more attempts than expected, I also didn't resort to using the Mortal Blade as I did in the past.

MadYaker

I went back to this and just killed that bull with the flaming horns, died twice before I realised I could parry his charges?? That makes sense.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233811#Comment_120233811

You can pretty much parry every kind of physical attack in the game other than the 3 types of attacks with the red symbol (grab, sweep, thrust).

Unearthly

I’m obsessed with this game last few weeks. Just beat Owl Father in Hirata after many hours of failure (his firecrackers are devastating). Celebrated far too much afterwards!

McFly85

I’ve gone back to this to get the platinum after doing the same with Bloodborne - I almost forgot how genuinely brilliant the combat is.

Some real highlights in the boss fights where I have to force myself to ignore all my instincts of staying away and waiting for a chance to strike and instead, get in close and engage relentlessly. Pulling off several perfect parries and counters is immensely satisfying.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121045121#Comment_121045121

The fights against Owl are two of my favourite boss fights of all time. Both fights it takes a while to get used to recognising and avoiding/countering his attacks, but once you do and you start getting into that rhythm, it's just so goddamn satisfying.

Unearthly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121045565#Comment_121045565

Yeah the first one I found hard but got the hang of it much faster. 2nd one by far the toughest opponent I’ve faced. Guardian Ape phase 1 was my previous toughest part.

Although I’m much better at the game now I’m still weak in some parts I’d like to improve on. I sometimes struggle to know if it’s a thrust or a sweep the opponent is doing. Also for some reason I can’t quite get my combat arts command to work sometimes (clearly panicking during a fight) and I end up doing either a thrust stab or standing there blocking like an idiot. Owl Father really punished me for not getting the command right as he would Mikiri counter my accidental thrust

McFly85

Platinum done this morning. Just a phenomenal game, kind of sad it’s over!

If any From title deserves a sequel it’s this one, the combat is too good to limit to one game!

Unearthly

Completed it this morning. Started the final boss last night but the 3rd and 4th phase kept getting me.

What a game. Probably one of the best games I’ve ever played. Now to decide if I should go hunting for platinum or move onto another FromSoftware game

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088406#Comment_121088406

Definitely go for platinum. After 3 months or so of not playing, I felt I had to relearn the timing/rythms etc.

Was glad I already had the platinum under my belt!

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088406#Comment_121088406

You'll be amazed how quickly you get through the game second/this time around. Not just knowing where to go, but muscle memory for bosses and tougher enemies should be seared into your fingertips.

awec

If I loved Ghost of Tsushima, would I also love this?

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185719#Comment_121185719

Very different game. Ghosts is standard ubi open world formula with very simple combat while this is a mix of stealth and dark souls with very complex combat you have to learn. It's quite linear as well.

I much prefer Sekiro but it's also a game that isn't for everyone. You will be bumbling your way through the game for the first few hours until you meet a very tough skill check boss and be stuck for a bit. You either learn how to be good at the game from him or get frustrated.

A better barometer is if you like dark souls games. The parrying is also quite similar to metal gear revengeance but that game is more forgiving than Sekiro.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185983#Comment_121185983

Never played any Dark Souls games.

I liked the samurai combat in Ghost, hence why this popped up.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185996#Comment_121185996

I would say there's probably too many differences between Ghost and Sekiro that the combat can't really be compared. Maybe check out some gameplay videos of Sekiro and see if it looks good. To be honest the closest comparator would actually be the Star Wars Jedi games, in that enemies have a posture meter which you wear down by attacking and forcing them to block your moves, and also blocking their moves.

I will say that personally, I think Sekiro has the best combat system ever. It's a constant back and forth clash of steel, a delicate dance.

Here's a video of a fight against a minor boss found in the open world, so there's no spoilers. This is just a taste of the combat.

https://youtu.be/WQ2B8CIsToQ?si=-eMLB6lADfKnEQRh

awec

Picked this up, took me about 10 attempts to kill the very first mini boss guy 😅

Gotta say though, games that don’t let you pause cutscenes need to get in the bin. Accidentally skipped one early on. And pressing home doesn’t even pause it, it continues on in the background. Wtf.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221001#Comment_121221001

From Software seem to hate people pausing the game. Gameplay, cutscenes, menu.... doesn't matter. Even Lies of P, a Soulslike game, also won't let you pause, presumably because they're really trying to go for that From Software feeling.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221117#Comment_121221117

On the tied up fire ogre guy now. Must have died 15 times already on this guy alone, I’d say 50+ deaths in the game already. Am I wasting my time with this? 😅

Getting particularly frustrated when he jumps at me, but while he’s mid air he somehow changes the direction he’s moving so he comes straight at me.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221332#Comment_121221332

You definitely have to beat him but he gives everyone trouble at the start. If you are getting frustrated you can try the new area that opens by that stage, it's a flashback area. Been a while so I'm not too sure how to access it.

Stick with the game. You're currently floundering about and not playing it properly. The first proper skill check is when the game starts to make sense.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221332#Comment_121221332

Yeah the tracking of enemies during both the wind-up and execution of their attacks can be.... frustrating to say the least. I remember getting really annoyed at another early game mini-boss who would hold his sword up like he's going to slice downwards, and no matter how many dodges I'd get around him, he could practically do a full 360 on the heel of one foot twisting around to hit me. But you get used to it once you start getting the timing and direction of your dodge right. Sometimes a dodge to the side is better, sometimes dodging backwards is better. Sometimes not staying too close to begin with is better.

The Ogre is definitely tough because of his wide grabs and how his attacks can track you. If you have a fire prosthetic on your arm he's pretty weak to it (enemies with glowing red eyes are weak to fire), so you can hit him with that and get a good few hits in before he recovers (even better if you throw a thing of oil first). If you don't have the flamethrower you might need to go to Hirata Estate if you haven't been there yet. Main advice though is keep distance. Once you've gotten one or two hits in, dodge backwards as much as possible, bait an attack, then go in for another few hits. The area at the base of the stairs is more open and I think there's a tree branch you can use to grapple over him to get distance.

Unearthly

Took me a while to realise it but you can get a deathblow on mini bosses to wipe out their first life. It usually involves taking out the normal guys near the boss, running away from the boss so they lose sight of you then quickly running back and catching them from behind. Fire works well on the Ogre to

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222072#Comment_121222072

Yeah I was trying to think if there was a way to get the first deathblow on the Ogre as I'm pretty sure you can't sneak around him. But I think on some tries I did manage to bait him out, hide to de-aggro him, then get the first deathblow from sneaking up behind him as he walked back.

Another tip I forgot to mention, as weird as it may sound, you can deflect/parry some of his grab attacks. Only moves where the red symbol appears above his head can't be parried. Other than that, even grabs can be parried/blocked.

Retr0gamer

You just have to get used to parrying as much as possible. It's the quickest way to build up the stagger guage, damage seems to affect more how quickly that stagger gauge recovers.

TitianGerm

Don't forget you can stun him with firecrackers.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222064#Comment_121222064

Regarding the Hirata Estate, when I woke up after getting the prosthetic arm, the game didn't really tell me where to go. So I was just wandering aimlessly and happened to come across this guy.

Have I missed something?

I randomly found 1 tool for the arm, the throwing dagger thing.

Regarding the death blow, I tried to do that but I couldn't see how you can de-aggro him. As far as I can see the only way to get behind him is to run up the stairs where he can see you, the left hand side has an insurmountable wall and the right hand side is a cliff?

Retr0gamer

In the area just before the ogre near the end of it there's a guy near some crows high up that is a vendor and will sell you the fire cracker arm which is very useful for beast enemies. He is high up near the ruined house with the old lady in it.

Unearthly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222212#Comment_121222212

You can definitely get up on the wall on the left side, then drop down and crouch staying close to the wall and then catch him when he is on the steps. If he see’s you just run away and try again.

Edit: Sorry memory letting me down. Not the wall, but there is a ledge right beside where the 2 guys are. You can hop down from there and crouch staying close to wall

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222212#Comment_121222212

There's an area called Hirata Estate you can access, but in fairness, it's not well explained to you how to get there.

If you met an old woman talking/crying about her son, she may have given you an item called Young Lord's Bell Charm. If you return to the sculptor and talk to him, he'll say something about offering it up in prayer. There's a Buddha statue in the sculptors shack, pray to it with the bell and you'll be transported to Hirata Estate.

It's a new area with different enemy types, and some good weapons/upgrades to find for your prosthetic, including an axe that can break shields, and a flamethrower attachment. It'll also help you level up a bit if you're getting stuck on the Ogre and want to move on somewhere else. Once you find the first shrine in Hirata Estate you can travel freely between both areas anyway. It's worth checking out.

But again, don't feel bad for missing it, because it's pretty poorly explained and I think I found it by accident and didn't know what the hell was happening when it transported me there.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222743#Comment_121222743

Is the game in general like this though, providing no direction and you have to figure everything out yourself?

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222845#Comment_121222845

Other than Hirata estate the game is much more linear than other from games. There's some branching paths but the level overlapping isn't as complex as other from games.

The only thing is if you want to go for the best ending (worth doing) then follow a playthrough for that, it's a little complex. It's also worth getting the bad ending in Ng+ as you'll unlock two new bosses that are a real challenge and once you learn how to play the game you'll be surprised how short it is.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222845#Comment_121222845

No, as Retro says, the rest of the game is pretty linear in terms of the rest of the areas being connected and following on from each other. Getting the different items for different endings can be a bit confusing and some of the requirements, I don't know how anyone ever figured out without a guide, but it's also not a requirement anyway as most of the endings lead to the same final boss. Getting the best ending can involve a lot of eavesdropping on NPCs multiple times, resetting the area and talking to them again, eavesdropping again etc. It's quite strange.

Hirata Estate though is one area that's separated from the rest and accessed differently, so it's easily missed. Never be afraid to check a guide for where to go next though if you do get stuck, or if you want the best ending (which usually involves seeing more of the game, going through areas with new enemies etc). Ultimately the joy of the game is the combat. No matter how much you spoil the game by seeing where to go, the combat and boss fights are what matters most.

McFly85

Generally in From games any sort of side quest can be fairly obtuse but there’s a principal around them all about player cooperation - you’re not really expected to figure everything out purely based on what the game says but also around discussion with fellow players.

Also you’re definitely at the part where the whole game is going to feel a bit overwhelming but if you put some time into it I think it’s definitely worth it. Once it clicks, the combat system is one of the greatest in gaming and produced some of the most memorable fights ever.

awec

Making slow, but steady progress on this now. Have killed a few bosses, but still feel like I'm relying on a lot of luck! And guides, keep having to read up what to do, there's absolutely no way I would figure some of the stuff out naturally.

The combat really doesn't want you to ever button-smash, feels like you need to time everything you do. Hits, blocks, dodges etc.

I like the mixture of stealth and combat, unlike most games you really cannot just wade into a group of enemies and take them out, you're going to die, so you have to figure out how to best kill them off 1 by 1.

I did that for the mini boss in Hirata, go in, stealth kill 1, then run away and de-aggro. Rinse and repeat. But it felt a bit like a cheese, not sure if this is how the game is supposed to be played.

It's fun though!

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275036#Comment_121275036

If anyone tells you they didn't cheese in some way in their first playthrough then they are a filthy liar! Literally every boss in the game is cheesing YOU.

My personal (and likely unpopular) opinion of the game is that it is closer to games like guitar hero than a souls game i.e. button press timing and rhythm essential!

Retr0gamer

Yep you're just going to be playing the game totally wrong until you get to that skill check boss and they will school you on how to play the game properly.

Penn

I don't think pulling minor enemies away and taking them out one-by-one counts as a cheese. It's pretty much a necessity. There will absolutely be bosses where you have no way to gain an advantage other than just stand and fight, but thinning herds through stealth so you can at least get one deathblow on a boss and face them one-on-one.... Well that's just good Sekiro-ing!

And like Markus said above, the combat can be closer to a rhythm game than an action game. Particularly boss fights, which become a back-and-forth exchange, a delicate dance.... That constant clashing of steel is better than any soundtrack the game could play in the background.

MadYaker

This thread has reminded me that I must go back to this game, killed that bull and then kind of forgot about it.

Unearthly

Got all the endings now. Class game. Except the headless bosses. They can feck off

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284774#Comment_121284774

By far and away the worst part of that game. A literal slog getting those down, I have no problem admitting that once was enough and every play through since they have been skipped!