Kim Trump Summit, 2 am (Pay-Per-View)

JMNolan

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

I'm a bit dismayed at all the negativity on here, in a single act he's done more for world Peace than the two previous presidents, ok that sets the bar basically on the floor but it's a start.

I'm not shocked at all, from what I have seen the story is

"Trump is the worst because he is antagonizing North Korea"
"Trump is the worst because he making peace with North Korea"

yosser hughes

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

I'm a bit dismayed at all the negativity on here, in a single act he's done more for world Peace than the two previous presidents, ok that sets the bar basically on the floor but it's a start.

I agree. It's mostly informed by the negative media commentary. It's been relentless since Trump's election.
If this was Obama that managed to get this summit can you imagine the beatification that would be happening right now?
Trump was elected because of a failure of main stream politics, but he was elected and he should be given a fairer press than he is getting. It's not impartial, it is biased.
The people will have their chance in two years to vote him out if they wish.
We are witnessing an erosion in democracy and it is been conducted by the media.

yosser hughes

yosser hughes wrote: »

I agree. It's mostly informed by the negative media commentary. It's been relentless since Trump's election.
If this was Obama that managed to get this summit can you imagine the beatification that would be happening right now?
Trump was elected because of a failure of main stream politics, but he was elected and he should be given a fairer press than he is getting. It's not impartial, it is biased.
The people will have their chance in two years to vote him out if they wish.
We are witnessing an erosion in democracy and it is been conducted by the media.

Can you imagine CNN saying that the Obama administration is putting North Korea on the same level as Canada.. Because the White House published what they'd eat for lunch during the summit.

It's retarded nonsense, but it fills people's rage meters, and people want their rage meters filled, so they do it.

Beechwoodspark

some expert fella on RTÉ just now saying the document is too vague and loose and hardly worth the paper it is signed on. So now!

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

some expert fella on RTjust now saying the document is too vague and loose and hardly worth the paper it is signed on. So now!

Yes, it's an absolute travesty that countries can only sign one document together per decade. Someone needs to do something about that.

TomOnBoard

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If I were Ivanka I wouldn't be wasting my finger movements to post on an internet forum.

True that... You'd be too busy counting the $82 million you made in 2017 from your various businesses while occupying a senior advisor role in the White House.

Bob24

In terms of PR, the contrast between the friendship and optimism on display at the Korean summit in Singapore today and the defiance at the G7 in Canada last weekend is quite striking!

Bob24

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

some expert fella on RTÉ just now saying the document is too vague and loose and hardly worth the paper it is signed on. So now!

I don't think anyone seriously expected a detailed agreement today (or they had unrealistic expectations), it was more about making a political statement.

IMO it's very hard to decipher what happened just now and it will take a bit of time for things to settle and to really understand if it was just smoke and mirrors or if it kicked-off an actual change.

tigger123

While Trump deserves some credit, this is more so Kim Jong Un's decision.

Can't for the life of me figure out why he'd want to come to the table now, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

But Trump does deserve some credit for it too.

TomOnBoard

Bob24 wrote: »

I don't think anyone seriously expected a detailed agreement today (or they had unrealistic expectations), it was more about making a political statement.

IMO it's very hard to decipher what just happened just now and it will take a bit of time to really understand if it was just smoke and mirrors or if it kicked-off an actual change.

+1

I wouldn't subscribe to the "this was simply a nothing burger photo-op" cynicism that some CNN commentators are pushing out this morning. I also wouldn't subscribe to the "this was a major peace initiative and DJT should be given the Nobel prize immediately" thinking that Hannity and Ingraham were pushing on Fox.

This was a good start in a process, and hopefully there will be significant progress over a short time towards achieving the high level aspirations contained in the document. That can only be a good thing and must be welcomed. I fear it will be a rocky road, but that shouldn't prevent ppl taking the necessary steps to travel it.

TomOnBoard

tigger123 wrote: »

While Trump deserves some credit, this is more so Kim Jong Un's decision.

Can't for the life of me figure out why he'd want to come to the table now, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

But Trump does deserve some credit for it too.

And in particular, Moon of South Korea has played a huge role.

Malayalam

Yeah, I started reading this thread during a bout of early morning insomnia and the yawning at the majority ripping the piss out of Trump for this summit did the trick and sent me off to sleep. So, er, thanks. If it was slick and cool Obama shaking Kim's hand commentators would be orgasming on air at the ''new leap forward'' or ''historic days''. Trump is gauche and oafish, orange and unattractive-looking, narcissistic and petulant, but thus far I have not seen him do any worse than his predecessors who simply looked suave while drawing up their kill lists and gave good speech. And aside from not doing any worse (those pictures of children in cages were Obama era, remember) - it seems he occasionally is prepared to move outside the box, however clumsily, and do things that might be worthwhile, like meet a nuclear-armed dictator who holds a whole part of the globe hostage and try and talk him down. What's so wrong with that? Anyways, bad and all as he is - and feck me, he's embarrassing - I am quite glad it is him who is US president and not that evil witch who cackled exuberantly on live TV at the memory of Gaddafi being sodomised to death by metal implements on a Libyan street by a lynch mob. I got some standards. :rolleyes:

Atlantic Dawn

What a historic day to witness, it's up there with watching the first man walking on the moon live.

Atlantic Dawn

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

some expert fella on RTjust now saying the document is too vague and loose and hardly worth the paper it is signed on. So now!

RTE would say that wouldn't they, they are still in bits over Hillary not getting in.

Beechwoodspark

Trump just said that *after* they signed the document Kim agreed to further measures.

TomOnBoard

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Trump just said that *after* they signed the document Kim agreed to further measures.

Yeah, he implied that a missile testing site would be taken out of commission shortly.

Hermy

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

I'm a bit dismayed at all the negativity on here, in a single act he's done more for world Peace than the two previous presidents, ok that sets the bar basically on the floor but it's a start.

While at the same time falling out with Europe, China, Canada, Mexico, Iran...


Lets not count our chickens just yet.

Hande hoche!

Hermy wrote: »

While at the same time falling out with Europe, China, Canada, Mexico, Iran...


Lets not count our chickens just yet.

Rather Trump ends up feuding with Trudeau than Kim. Glad the Warmbiers got a mention.

alchemist33

I can't help thinking of Neville Chamberlain and "peace in our time" but maybe I'm being too cynical. Time will tell whether Kim's doing a deal now saves the world from Trump or not.

TomOnBoard

The agreement on repatriation of the remains of 6,000 US soldiers from the Korean War is a real and immediately achievable result, and a good one for many US families..

seamus

tigger123 wrote: »

While Trump deserves some credit, this is more so Kim Jong Un's decision.

Can't for the life of me figure out why he'd want to come to the table now, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

But Trump does deserve some credit for it too.

North Korea's nuclear programme has collapsed. Literally - the mountainside where they were conducting their tests has collapsed, completely destroying the test facility and allegedly killing hundreds of nuclear scientists.

They've completely lost any leverage so it was time to come to the table.

To be fair to South Korea, this has been a life goal of their President, who has been working his ass off behind the scenes. He deserves more credit than anyone.

"Credit" to Trump is that he dropped the posturing and didn't mock Kim. Neither him nor his team actually did anything to make this happen except to be (eventually) amenable to the meeting.

Bob24

alchemist33 wrote: »

I can't help thinking of Neville Chamberlain and "peace in our time"

I would to some extend agree if it only refers to the 2 Koreas and the attitude of the South Korean president.

But in the grand scheme of things the situation is very different and North Korea is not to Asia what Germany was to Europe at the time. They’re no going to take over the continent and there are many other regional and global powers in the area with a strong hand.

Arbitrary

Trump deserves some credit here. However, his supporters who are calling for him to be nominated for the Nobel peace prize need to get a grip.


He brought about peace by threatening war. A dangerous precedent and president. Thankfully Kim listened to China on this occasion but this could have gone very differently.

suicide_circus

TomOnBoard

Someone needs to get the hook out now and take him off the stage... He's beginning to answer questions he's not being asked.. Time for beddy-bies. He's done well at this Press Conference... Don't let him ramble on at this stage and do damage...

Roger_007

Since Kim acquired his nuclear toys, there has been a remarkable turnaround in the American and South Korean attitudes to him. Up till then he was just regarded as a somewhat unhinged dictator and a pariah in the world. Now that he has nuclear clout, he has suddenly been elevated to a status where he has to be taken seriously.
There is a message here for all aspiring dictators.........get yourself some nukes and other world leaders will come running to your door.

Hande hoche!

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Someone needs to get the hook out now and take him off the stage... He's beginning to answer questions he's not being asked.. Time for beddy-bies. He's done well at this Press Conference... Don't let him ramble on at this stage and do damage...

He was just congratulated by a journalist. He seems in happy form.

TomOnBoard

Hande hoche! wrote: »

He was just congratulated by a journalist. He seems in happy form.

That's what I mean.. But he's beginning to ramble and should finish up while he's ahead..

BoJack Horseman

Hande hoche! wrote: »

He was just congratulated by a journalist. He seems in happy form.

Toms right though.

Enough is enough..... well into the ramble-zone now.

Hande hoche!

TomOnBoard wrote: »

That's what I mean.. But he's beginning to ramble and should finish up while he's ahead..

Fair point. Seems to be in the wrapping up stage thankfully.

TomOnBoard

Roger_007 wrote: »

Since Kim acquired his nuclear toys, there has been a remarkable turnaround in the American and South Korean attitudes to him. Up till then he was just regarded as a somewhat unhinged dictator and a pariah in the world. Now that he has nuclear clout, he has suddenly been elevated to a status where he has to be taken seriously.
There is a message here for all aspiring dictators.........get yourself some nukes and other world leaders will come running to your door.

Its been like this since forever.... Once it was archers, other times it was muskets, and today its nukes...

SEPT 23 1989

DickSwiveller

seamus wrote: »

North Korea's nuclear programme has collapsed. Literally - the mountainside where they were conducting their tests has collapsed, completely destroying the test facility and allegedly killing hundreds of nuclear scientists.

They've completely lost any leverage so it was time to come to the table.

To be fair to South Korea, this has been a life goal of their President, who has been working his ass off behind the scenes. He deserves more credit than anyone.

"Credit" to Trump is that he dropped the posturing and didn't mock Kim. Neither him nor his team actually did anything to make this happen except to be (eventually) amenable to the meeting.

I'm sure you would have commended him if he did.

Duck Soup

TomOnBoard

Duck Soup wrote: »

Jeez, that's a powerful little clip! This whole double standards aspect of US politics sickens me alright!

ricero

Fair play to Trump he is silencing his critics with this act.

Got to hand it to the Donald hes doing a great job for America.

TomOnBoard

ricero wrote: »

Fair play to Trump he is silencing his critics with this act.

Got to hand it to the Donald hes doing a great job for America.

Bob24

Roger_007 wrote: »

Since Kim acquired his nuclear toys, there has been a remarkable turnaround in the American and South Korean attitudes to him. Up till then he was just regarded as a somewhat unhinged dictator and a pariah in the world. Now that he has nuclear clout, he has suddenly been elevated to a status where he has to be taken seriously.
There is a message here for all aspiring dictators.........get yourself some nukes and other world leaders will come running to your door.

It is nothing new really.

Dictator or not, once you have nukes you are entering a restrictive club and other nations are forced to take you a lot more seriously. This is nothing new and has been true for over 70 years.

If there was a mistake it was to let NK reach a point where it has nukes. Acknowledging its status now is just a logical and unavoidable consequence.

Danzy

Arbitrary wrote: »

Trump deserves some credit here. However, his supporters who are calling for him to be nominated for the Nobel peace prize need to get a grip.


He brought about peace by threatening war. A dangerous precedent and president. Thankfully Kim listened to China on this occasion but this could have gone very differently.

As if that Is a new approach.

The threat of further and continued tightening of sanctions. His putting pressure on China to rein in its pet state.

These were the game changers.

TomOnBoard

Trump announces at his press conference that the joint military exercises between US & South Korea will stop...

South Korean government dont appear to know what he means!!!


Ouch!!! Confusion already!!!

Danzy

tigger123 wrote: »

While Trump deserves some credit, this is more so Kim Jong Un's decision.

Can't for the life of me figure out why he'd want to come to the table now, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

But Trump does deserve some credit for it too.

Trump has been tightening sanction enforcement, pressuring China to play ball and rein in North Korea.

The North Korean State is on borrowed time and a century behind in many ways.

BoJack Horseman

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Trump announces at his press conference that the joint military exercises between US & South Korea will stop...

All, or just the big one in August the North asked to be cancelled?

They hold a very large combined arms exercise over 2 weeks every summer.
NK hates this one.

But there are many smaller training efforts throughout the year.

TomOnBoard

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

All, or just the big one in August the North asked to be cancelled?

That's the kind of question South Korea"s government is asking right now. It looks like Trump agreed it with Kim without consulting SK. He said they were stopping the "War Games", and gave a rambling rationale for it.

Hande hoche!

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

All, or just the big one in August the North asked to be cancelled?

They hold a very large combined arms exercise over 2 weeks every summer.
NK hates this one.

But there are many smaller training efforts throughout the year.

Yeah, seems like a good "carrot" for the North Koreans. If they make tangible steps towards denuclearizing then cancel the August war games.

Danzy

seamus wrote: »

North Korea's nuclear programme has collapsed. Literally - the mountainside where they were conducting their tests has collapsed, completely destroying the test facility and allegedly killing hundreds of nuclear scientists.

They've completely lost any leverage so it was time to come to the table.

To be fair to South Korea, this has been a life goal of their President, who has been working his ass off behind the scenes. He deserves more credit than anyone.

"Credit" to Trump is that he dropped the posturing and didn't mock Kim. Neither him nor his team actually did anything to make this happen except to be (eventually) amenable to the meeting.

Jeeze but your not much different to a tea party type in their view of Obama and climate change.

Twins.

WinnyThePoo

Danzy wrote: »

Jeeze but your not much different to a tea party type in their view of Obama and climate change.

Twins.

He really isn't.

dr.fuzzenstein

seamus wrote: »

North Korea's nuclear programme has collapsed. Literally - the mountainside where they were conducting their tests has collapsed, completely destroying the test facility and allegedly killing hundreds of nuclear scientists.

They've completely lost any leverage so it was time to come to the table.

To be fair to South Korea, this has been a life goal of their President, who has been working his ass off behind the scenes. He deserves more credit than anyone.

"Credit" to Trump is that he dropped the posturing and didn't mock Kim. Neither him nor his team actually did anything to make this happen except to be (eventually) amenable to the meeting.

Anything positive that happens in the world does so more despite Trump rather than because of him.

Ipso

So why the big need for talks with NK but then pulls out of the Iran deal?

dr.fuzzenstein

Ipso wrote: »

So why the big need for talks with NK but then pulls out of the Iran deal?

Trump is a psychopath and narzicist. He will promise anything to get a deal and be charming as you like.
As soon as he has what he wants, he will then return to being the rude, boorish bully that he is.
As I said before, he doesn't think any contract applies to him and that he can simply refuse to abide by it or pay what was agreed, but he will spit fire and brimstone if you don't fulfill your part 100% and then give him whatever extras he wants.
The problem is, this kind of horsehs*t will work in the short term, but once people realise that all he does is tell you anything you want to hear to get you to sign on the dottet line and then later he'll dump all over you from the safety of Twitter, they will not want to engage in any dealings with him.
Because he is untrustworthy and unreliable and should not be accepted as a valid partner in any negotiations.
The G7 summit was a perfect case in point.
The only thing Trump will understand is massive tarrifs on food exportet from the USA, which will only let up if he falls back into line and any sign of him acting the twat will have to incurr further fines.
Though it is also entirely possible that he will let the US burn, blame the Democrats and those evil Europeans and his cabbages will carry him into the sunset a-whoopin' and a-hollerin'.

MikeyTaylor

ebbsy wrote: »

Doubt it. They voted for him.

No they didn't. The Electoral College did.