Social contradiction on how we treat animals

emaherx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You’re a farmer calling real footage of how animals are treated propaganda.

You guys must really be afraid of what the future holds to spend so much time in this forum.

The financial fear you guys have should actually make me feel better about how maybe things are going.

You have seen footage from what percentage of 570,000,000 farms?

We can all agree that the footage is real and the images are disturbing, but sugesting this is how all farms are run is nothing short of a lie.

I can find footage of completely crazy Vegans and there is plenty but I wouldn't be so bold as to say it's representative of Vegans.

irelandrover

Deleted User wrote: »

You’re a farmer calling real footage of how animals are treated propaganda.

You guys must really be afraid of what the future holds to spend so much time in this forum.

The financial fear you guys have should actually make me feel better about how maybe things are going.

There are also a lot of videos out there that show the mistreatment of "pet" animals so the videos you posted show no real contradiction on how animals are treated.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You’re a farmer calling real footage of how animals are treated propaganda.

You guys must really be afraid of what the future holds to spend so much time in this forum.

The financial fear you guys have should actually make me feel better about how maybe things are going.

Biased and hand picked extreme footage is propaganda Klopp.

'You guys' (sic) keep repeating the same rubbish all the time. I guess you must be really afraid of the people finding out exactly why you keep posting this rubbish on Boards. If its not propaganda as you claim - is it monetization perhaps?

Why the need to express that you are getting off posting this this kind of stuff and that you like to think of others doing badly? That type of comment comes across as a bit psychopathic tbh

ganmo

Deleted User wrote: »

You’re a farmer calling real footage of how animals are treated propaganda.

You guys must really be afraid of what the future holds to spend so much time in this forum.

The financial fear you guys have should actually make me feel better about how maybe things are going.

propaganda doesn't have to be false, it misrepresents and misleads to promote a point of view which clearly you are doing quiet well

Nekarsulm

Deleted User wrote: »

You’re a farmer calling real footage of how animals are treated propaganda.

You guys must really be afraid of what the future holds to spend so much time in this forum.

The financial fear you guys have should actually make me feel better about how maybe things are going.

That last sentance reveals a lot about the Vegan mindset.
Like someone going down to the Dell factory when its closure was announced, waving an Apple device at the workers....
But then it sems that, as with all belief systems, the need to divide people into "righteous" and "unwanted" is hard to suppress.

gozunda

Nekarsulm wrote: »

That last sentance reveals a lot about the Vegan mindset.
Like someone going down to the Dell factory when its closure was announced, waving an Apple device at the workers....
But then it sems that, as with all belief systems, the need to divide people into "righteous" and "unwanted" is hard to suppress.

The nice thing about that analogy is Dell (everyone who is not a vegan) is doing very well globally including Limerick(!) and that some Apples (vegans) remain a tiny minority and are still waving their multimedia devices in other peoples faces ....

¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯. 

davidjtaylor

I wrote this a few days ago:

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Nekarsulm, a story; you might have seen I mentioned this on the apples thread recently.

I had arthritic pains in my fingers (I put it down to decades of playing music) over the last 12-18 months or so. Not enough to stop me playing but uncomfortable.

This year, after the bumper crop of apples, I've been juicing them, drinking some of the juice, freezing some, making jam.

Within a couple of days of starting to drink the juice, my hands went pain-free and have stayed that way. I drink a glass every morning, the equivalent of eating 6 or 7 apples. Maybe it should be "half-a-dozen apples a day keeps the doctor away".

I don't have an explanation for it but the juice has all the crud and crap in it and it's obviously not pasteurised or filtered. It's a precursor to apple cider vinegar I suppose, with the mother and father in it!

There doesn't seem to be any other cause of the pain going - it's too coincidental. What will happen in the long run I don't know. I'll find out when I run out of apples/juice. For now, I feel zingy.

I just read that there was an experiment where people ate a teaspoon of dried apple peel per day and they reported an overall reduction in pain and increase in mobility.

It wasn't a full-blown study with controls, so there was only an 'association' between the consumption and result. Nonetheless, it's interesting and it may have a bearing on my experience.

Sorry if this is out of topic. :cool:

Nekarsulm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

I wrote this a few days ago:



I just read that there was an experiment where people ate a teaspoon of dried apple peel per day and they reported an overall reduction in pain and increase in mobility.

It wasn't a full-blown study with controls, so there was only an 'association' between the consumption and result. Nonetheless, it's interesting and it may have a bearing on my experience.

Sorry if this is out of topic. :cool:

Very interesting, and well worth trying.
It couldn't do you any harm anyway!

Might add it to the Glucosamine I take for the knees!

Tilikum17

You can bury and mourn for a dead animal, then eat a dead animal next door all in the one trip.

ganmo

Tilikum17 wrote: »

You can bury and mourn for a dead animal, then eat a dead animal next door all in the one trip.

How many of the 100 people that died in Ireland today are you mourning?
Grief is about your loss of a personal connection, so in order to mourn you first have to have a connection to what died

gozunda

Tilikum17 wrote: »

You can bury and mourn for a dead animal, then eat a dead animal next door all in the one trip.

Sigh ..... I really don't know if such comments are deliberatly misleading or just stupid tbh

One is raised for human consumption and produced to specific human food grade standards.

The other is not.

Unless of course you are in certain countries where food standards don't exist or are not enforced and anything goes....

Fake vegetables anyone?

http://m.gdnonline.com/details.html?id=413568&title=Police-bust-illegal-trade-of-fake-food-products

JeffKenna

Tilikum17 wrote: »

You can bury and mourn for a dead animal, then eat a dead animal next door all in the one trip.

Christ. You can be sure anyone who comes out with a statement like that has never lost or mourned for anybody they loved.

JeffKenna

JeffKenna wrote: »

Christ. You can be sure anyone who comes out with a statement like that has never lost or mourned for anybody they loved.

Baloney.

I’ve buried family members and I agree 100% with that statement.

What you ‘can be sure’ is that some people don’t need to be directly effected by something to understand it.

That’s called empathy.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Baloney.
I’ve buried family members and I agree 100% with that statement. What you ‘can be sure’ is that some people don’t need to be directly effected by something to understand it.
That’s called empathy.

Interesting that you refer to other people's opinions as 'baloney'. What you can be sure is there are certainly those who make use of emotion to try and push an agenda. That's the contradiction

A dog fed on a diet of hamburgers and was weighed at 6 stone when rescued by the rspca.

A fundraiser exceeded its target by 338%.

The dog was put on a strict diet and the money was used for medicine, vet bills and possibly a tummy tuck to remove excess skin.

The leftover money can be used to treat the dogs diabetes for the rest of its life.

Hattie the Fatty half the size and hungry for a home http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-45691914

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A dog fed on a diet of hamburgers and was weighed at 6 stone when rescued by the rspca. A fundraiser exceeded its target by 338%.
The dog was put on a strict diet and the money was use for medicine, vet bills and possibly a tummy tuck to remove excess skin.
The leftover money can be used to treat the dogs diabetes for the rest of its life.
Hattie the Fatty half the size and hungry for a home http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-45691914

Lol - where's the contradiction? If you mean that restrictive diets can be abused - then I don't think anyone would disagree

Restricted Diet

One of the biggest dangers of veganism is that the restricted diet may cause malnutrition. This isn't unique to veganism; any restrictive diet can lead to a lack of important nutrients. The main nutrients that can be lacking in a vegan diet include vitamin B12, vitamin D, calcium, iodine and omega-3 fatty acids. These deficiencies can cause ailments such as anemia and osteomalacia, a condition that damages bones. In children these deficiencies can result in rickets and other potentially serious illnesses.

While there are valid concerns, with a little extra care a vegan can receive all the necessary nutrients that are important for a healthy body. 

See: https://vegetarian.lovetoknow.com/Dangers_of_Veganism

The same goes for some idiot only feeding a dog fast food of course....

Tar.Aldarion

Story from the UK today, "This guy set up a petition on the street to get people to legalize eating dog meat. After a large mob of outraged citizens gathered he began to hand out vegan material."

Tilikum17

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Story from the UK today, "This guy set up a petition on the street to get people to legalize eating dog meat. After a large mob of outraged citizens gathered he began to hand out vegan material."

I saw that on reddit this morn alright.

emaherx

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Story from the UK today, "This guy set up a petition on the street to get people to legalize eating dog meat. After a large mob of outraged citizens gathered he began to hand out vegan material."

Be funny if he converted more people to dog meat than veganism!

Base price

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Story from the UK today, "This guy set up a petition on the street to get people to legalize eating dog meat. After a large mob of outraged citizens gathered he began to hand out vegan material."

Ah, some people eat dog meat, others eat rat, cat, horse, beef, pork, insects, grubs etc..

I'm tolerant of other peoples cultures. I may not consume some of the foods that they eat but I don't castigate them for doing so.

Tar.Aldarion

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Story from the UK today, "This guy set up a petition on the street to get people to legalize eating dog meat. After a large mob of outraged citizens gathered he began to hand out vegan material."

Perfect.

The people that approached him in anger will now have to consider how hypocritical their choices are.

uptherebels

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Perfect.

The people that approached him in anger will now have to consider how hypocritical their choices are.

How is it hypocritical? Dogs arent raised in Ireland for food!
If they were and people chose to not eat them and only other animals then you might actually have a point.

Tar.Aldarion

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Story from the UK today, "This guy set up a petition on the street to get people to legalize eating dog meat. After a large mob of outraged citizens gathered he began to hand out vegan material."

Was this story run in the media Tar ?

I’m trying to find a link to send on to nephews and nieces.

gozunda

^^^ Another 'why not eat dog though' huh hur daft argument that some can't seem to get enough of.

I'm surprised people didn't see through it tbh. Same stunt even tried here

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057856518

This has been brought up again repeatedly and
been thoroughly debunked many times

I wonder whether the above stunt would fall under the remit of false and misleading advertising in the UK:

The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations mean you cannot mislead or harass consumers by, for example:
including false or deceptive messages
leaving out important information

https://www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/regulations-that-affect-advertising

In either case the stunt was certainly harassing / misleading and deliberatly left out important information...

¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯. 

aaakev

Why is eating dog meat so bad? A guy i know from new Zealand killed his dog when it got old and they had a spit roast with all their friends. They saw it as a way to say good bye!

gozunda

Just to push this debate a bit further than a state of constant repetition.

It would appear that "there is much less difference in ethical values between vegans and meat eaters than you may think" with regard to who loves dogs more ....

Contradiction?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo-o8hDnZzs

JeffKenna

aaakev wrote: »

Why is eating dog meat so bad? A guy i know from new Zealand killed his dog when it got old and they had a spit roast with all their friends. They saw it as a way to say good bye!

Spit roast eh....

davidjtaylor

aaakev wrote: »

Why is eating dog meat so bad?

We've been told several times on this thread that dog meat is inedible and a health risk.

Tar.Aldarion

Deleted User wrote: »

Was this story run in the media Tar ?

I’m trying to find a link to send on to nephews and nieces.

I don't know, I just saw it on reddit.

uptherebels wrote: »

How is it hypocritical? Dogs arent raised in Ireland for food!
If they were and people chose to not eat them and only other animals then you might actually have a point.

I believe the very point is that the man was suggesting that they farm dogs in the UK and people got outraged, and people also get outraged at others in different countries doing same.

Being inconsistent goes both ways, they can either think that both are fine or neither or fine unless they is some form of pressing reason otherwise.

aaakev

davidjtaylor wrote: »

We've been told several times on this thread that dog meat is inedible and a health risk.

That doesnt make it true though. Dog meat is eaten in plenty of places and is most definitely edible. Eating carnivorous animals can pose a risk but it is certainly edible.

davidjtaylor

davidjtaylor wrote: »

We've been told several times on this thread that dog meat is inedible and a health risk.

aaakev wrote: »

That doesnt make it true though.

Exactly.

gozunda

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I don't know, I just saw it on reddit.

I believe the very point is that the man was suggesting that they farm dogs in the UK and people got outraged, and people also get outraged at others in different countries doing same.

Being inconsistent goes both ways, they can either think that both are fine or neither or fine unless they is some form of pressing reason otherwise.

It's your man pretending to want to advocate for eating dog meat simply to get a reaction. Fairly pathetic and dishonest behaviour tbh

But like that deranged woman who went into a restaurant and stated screaming - why the restaurant was not selling dog meat and then she and her friends started screaming at the restaurant diners.

Stupid dishonest and ignorant imo.

gozunda

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Exactly.

Wrong. The Philippines banned the eating of dog meat for health and animal welfare reasons. Hong Kong Taiwan ditto etc

Dog meat has been linked to cholera
and Ebola and some prion related diseases

Yes some people's do eat dog meat - but it is not recommended as the meat is neither reared for human consumption or killed in a regulated manner.

Plus on a biological level - carnivores avoid the eating of other carnivores as a rule. Yes there are exceptions but this has been extensively studied.

It's quite amazing how some vegan sources attempt to rewrite reality in an aim to push veganism.

I suppose in one way that's not a bad thing - because most people see that for what it is - simply more misinformation

Worztron

To gozunda and co. I'm curious - whenever ye see a story about an animal escaping from a slaughterhouse or truck bound for such place -- do ye root for the animal or slaughterers?

ganmo

Worztron wrote: »

To gozunda and co. I'm curious - whenever ye see a story about an animal escaping from a slaughterhouse or truck bound for such place -- do ye root for the animal or slaughterers?

Neither, a loose animal in an unfamiliar environment can be dangerous so I suppose I’d be rooting for the public.

But your question would never have a black or white answer

aaakev

Worztron wrote: »

To gozunda and co. I'm curious - whenever ye see a story about an animal escaping from a slaughterhouse or truck bound for such place -- do ye root for the animal or slaughterers?

Id be hoping thw animal was caught quick before it did damage to itself or someone in the road.

gozunda

I am in agreement with both of the above replies.

As to the query itself however - imo it is little more than simplified reductionism with the aim of setting the commentator as a moral arbitrator

Worztron

ganmo wrote: »

Neither, a loose animal in an unfamiliar environment can be dangerous so I suppose I’d be rooting for the public.

But your question would never have a black or white answer

It goes without saying that we'd all wish for nobody to be injured. Why should this question not be a clear cut answer?

aaakev wrote: »

Id be hoping thw animal was caught quick before it did damage to itself or someone in the road.

Agreed on the damage part, but that's not what I asked.

gozunda wrote: »

I am in agreement with both of the above replies.

As to the query itself however - imo it is little more than simplified reductionism with the aim of setting the commentator as a moral arbitrator

No, it's a simple question.

gozunda

Worztron wrote: »

It goes without saying that we'd all wish for nobody to be injured. Why should this question not be a clear cut answer?
Agreed on the damage part, but that's not what I asked.No, it's a simple question.

It remains the question makes no sense whatsover.

Why would anyone be 'rooting' (sic) for anyone as if it's a fracking football final or something

You got a number of answers. If they were not what you wanted
¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

Worztron

gozunda wrote: »

It remains the question makes no sense whatsover.

Why would anyone be 'rooting' (sic) for anyone as if it's a fracking football final or something

You got a number of answers. If they were not what you wanted
¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

It makes sense alright. Those were cop out answers. Why get caught up over the word 'root'? Change it to support if you please.

gozunda

Worztron wrote: »

It makes sense alright. Those were cop out answers. Why get caught up over the word 'root'? Change it to support if you please.

I disagree - Its remains it's a very stupid type of question.

I suggest you read about this type of questioning here

https://www.wwnorton.com/college/phil/logic3/ch6/falsealt.htm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

aaakev

Worztron wrote: »

It makes sense alright. Those were cop out answers. Why get caught up over the word 'root'? Change it to support if you please.

My answer was certainly not a cop out, it was a truthful answer based on the scenario you asked about.

At the end of the day the cow was reared to be slaughtered for food so id be hoping it got back to the factory as soon as possible so no one got hurt, nothing got damaged (including the cow) and the food production could start.

Does that answer your question more to your liking?

Worztron

aaakev wrote: »

My answer was certainly not a cop out, it was a truthful answer based on the scenario you asked about.

At the end of the day the cow was reared to be slaughtered for food so id be hoping it got back to the factory as soon as possible so no one got hurt, nothing got damaged (including the cow) and the food production could start.

Does that answer your question more to your liking?

Yes, you just completed your earlier answer there regarding how you'd prefer the escaped animal to end up. Although I never mentioned it was a cow.

Worztron

gozunda wrote: »

I disagree - Its remains it's a very stupid type of question.

I suggest you read about this type of questioning here

https://www.wwnorton.com/college/phil/logic3/ch6/falsealt.htm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

So if an animal escaped their slaughterhouse destiny, and zero harm came to the animal, people, or property -- you'd still prefer the animal caught and end up in the slaughter house and not for example an animal sanctuary?

Lady Haywire

Worztron wrote: »

Yes, you just completed your earlier answer there regarding how you'd prefer the escaped animal to end up. Although I never mentioned it was a cow.

There's no correct answer, if we say root for the beast, we'll get questioned why send it for slaughter in the first place. If we root for the factory, then we're horrible farmers hell bent on capturing the poor animal who tried to escape.

It's a worst case scenario because the escapee is far far more stressed out than it would be if it hadn't got out in the first place. If it's not able to be safely captured it can require shooters in to kill it while it runs as it's both a danger to itself and society.

If a sanctuary is willing to pay market value, let them have it, but no farmer is going to give it away for free because it got away.

ganmo

Lady Haywire wrote: »

There's no correct answer, if we say root for the beast, we'll get questioned why send it for slaughter in the first place. If we root for the factory, then we're horrible farmers hell bent on capturing the poor animal who tried to escape.

It's a worst case scenario because the escapee is far far more stressed out than it would be if it hadn't got out in the first place. If it's not able to be safely captured it can require shooters in to kill it while it runs as it's both a danger to itself and society.

If a sanctuary is willing to pay market value, let them have it, but no farmer is going to give it away for free because it got away.

like the gay bull that got castrated by the sanctuary in england

gozunda

Worztron wrote: »

So if an animal escaped their slaughterhouse destiny, and zero harm came to the animal, people, or property -- you'd still prefer the animal caught and end up in the slaughter house and not for example an animal sanctuary?

And how exactly did you arrive at that convoluted conclusion from my comment?

Worztron- if you insist on attempting to get a reaction and refuse to recognise the stupidity of your question - I can do nothing for you.

Worztron

gozunda wrote: »

And how exactly did you arrive at that convoluted conclusion from my comment?

Worztron- if you insist on attempting to get a reaction and refuse to recognise the stupidity of your question - I can do nothing for you.

It's a straightforward scenario. You're like a politician trying to avoid answering a question. I'm asking a question but you seem to see it simply as trying to get a reaction -- not so.

gozunda

Worztron wrote: »

It's a straightforward scenario. You're like a politician trying to avoid answering a question. I'm asking a question but you seem to see it simply as trying to get a reaction -- not so.

And if you wish to make use of analogies thats the closest thing to a wanabe chat show presenter looking for reaction imo. No one on boards is obliged to answer any directed 'question' especially where it has already been pointed out that the 'question' make a no sense whatsover. Tbh I have only bothered replying so far out of politeness despite the fact you've liked none of the replies so far and are still badgering posters. That tells me enough thanks.

Your question makes as much sense as this scenario tbh

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3101363/Have-drunk-dinosaur-urine-glass-water-contains-100-Jurassic-pee-claim-scientists.html

How do feel about drinking dinosaur pee as an animal by-product?

Ps I don't expect an answer ....

On the other hand If you wish to debate the merits or otherwise of vegan run sanctruries and / or how Irish slaughthouse operations are run - go ahead.
.

Nekarsulm

Worztron wrote: »

To gozunda and co. I'm curious - whenever ye see a story about an animal escaping from a slaughterhouse or truck bound for such place -- do ye root for the animal or slaughterers?

I would root for the farmer that owned the beast, and hope it was rounded up before it caused a fortune in damage to cars and property, or ran across a bunch of people and injured or killed someone.

I suppose you are using the verb "root" in the Americian meaning, not the Australian/Kiwi one?