BusConnects

Grassey

LennoxR wrote:

And the last point I want to make on this is that I don't think this plan is actually about getting less cars on the road because while cyclists are being rerouted in all kinds of fanciful ways in the plans shown to date, cars are not.

On the radio they had the woman from nta on explaining the proposal to provide bus and bike space was to make rathmines 1way for cars I bound, and route them via ranelagh 2 way outbound in a major shift...

... Que what ifs on motor tax and car tax and the poor locals who will be locked into their houses unable to go anywhere by car as the roads won't exist anymore...

DanDublin1982

Certainly from what I've read so far I'm in the sceptical camp from the point of view that it's too grand a plan with too many interconnected parts for it all to come off..which probably means that, eventually, most of it won't.

I admire long term planning but the problem this seeks to solve exist now so is there anything being tabled to solve them? Not from what I can see. And there's nothing to stop them doing both.

I have changed my commuting route a few times as traffic has increased over the years but my favoured route used to be long Mile road, crumlin road dolphins barn direction. Just around where that Tesco Express is they changed a lane into a right turning lane leaving just one lane for traffic going straight which includes the merging of traffic and a bus lane. Should have just stopped the traffic turning right, extended the bus lane and problem solved. Nope, now they have backed up traffic in that lane all the time. For the sake of the maybe 10% that want to turn right. They should be identifying areas like this they can change overnight and assessing the impact they make. They may find that with proper use of the space we do have we don't have to go inventing more.

This is the junction. Google maps isn't quite up to date.

https://goo.gl/maps/2UepDz6k8et

We all know at least one of these right? Where an idiotic decision has made the main traffic flow worse.

RayCun

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

I have changed my commuting route a few times as traffic has increased over the years but my favoured route used to be long Mile road, crumlin road dolphins barn direction. Just around where that Tesco Express is they changed a lane into a right turning lane leaving just one lane for traffic going straight which includes the merging of traffic and a bus lane. Should have just stopped the traffic turning right

There is no right turn from Crumlin Road onto the canal, so there has to be a right turn onto South Circular

theyoungchap

People seem to miss the fact that this is an initial proposal. There are lots of logistics to be figured out, Dublin has adjusted to hundreds of changes in traffic operations over the years. There was massive objection to the pedestrianisation of Grafton Street back in the day!
I would suspect that a law will be created where it will be illegal for cyclists to use a bus only lane - lets be honest, there no point having a high-speed bus service stuck behind a load of cyclists (I know some cyclists can cycle at a speed to not delay a bus, but not all can). But once there is a decent alternative, I am sure a decent compromise can be reached.
It is good to see such a plan and if the whole scheme costs just 1.3bn it is probably better spent than the Metro North, given the number of areas and people it serves. I just hope it doesn't take years and years to even get the ball rolling.......

schemingbohemia

LennoxR wrote: »

I'm sorry too, that you can't reply civilly.

In the sections that concern me, which is what I've been posting about the plan proposes getting rid of cycle lanes and keeping the lanes for cars.

Because they are spending a lot of money does not imply anything about bike infrastructure or reducing cars. As I understand it, the goal is simply to improve commute times.

I don't think my reply was uncivil, but point taken.

However, Rathmines is reducing car traffic to one lane, that is a massive change. The bike lanes in Rathmines are not very effective, the right turn to Montpellier Hill is an accident waiting to happen, the number of junctions, bus stops and illegal parking render the bike lanes sub-par for the most part especially with the huge number of buses using the road too.
I know i'd use an alternate route if I was going through Rathmines every day if it made me feel safer.
We don't know yet what will happen with cyclist interaction with bus lanes post implementation, I can't imagine though that cyclists will be banned from Rathmines.
Have you never adjusted your route to take account of dangerous sections or pinch points? I know I have, I tend to use the park between Blackrock and Booterstown instead of the main road as the narrowness of the road going past Blackrock college isn't pleasant.

DanDublin1982

RayCun wrote: »

There is no right turn from Crumlin Road onto the canal, so there has to be a right turn onto South Circular

Why "has to be"? Couldn't the line be taken that someone wishing to access that road has to take a different route? Just as they do to get onto the canal.

The Crumlin road is the main road on that route and forcing a line of traffic and a bus lane into one lane to accommodate right turns is causing serious delays and encouraging people to break the rules of the road and enter the bus lane early. This often means the traffic is backed up beyond the previous junction too.

Maybe I'm wrong about blocking right turns but reducing the two lanes into one was certainly a mistake.

RayCun

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Why "has to be"? Couldn't the line be taken that someone wishing to access that road has to take a different route? Just as they do to get onto the canal.

Because South Circular Road and the canal are the two east/west arteries. Traffic coming from Long Mile Road/Crumlin and wanting to go east has to take one of those roads.

Maybe the road should be widened, or the right turn onto the canal should be allowed, or some other change should be made, but there has to be a right turn there somewhere.

magicbastarder

it's been confirmed that taxis will be allowed use the new infrastructure:

https://twitter.com/BusConnects/status/1006878724330082304

Grassey

magicbastarder wrote:

it's been confirmed that taxis will be allowed use the new infrastructure:

New bus lanes... Just like the old ones but now with 100% less cyclists

LeoD

Tbf, the proposal covers 230km of network which is pretty impressive. And it's not just more bus lanes - it's about updating routes, increasing frequency, simplifying ticketing, integrating with other modes of transport, etc. From my limited experience cycling around Dublin recently I was surprised how rubbish the cycle infrastructure was considering the increase in numbers commuting by bike so if I was living in Dublin I'd be welcoming an investment like this. There might be a few stretches that bicyclists may not be happy with in the proposal but perhaps they can be updated to take into account the needs of those on bikes and the non-DMURS compliant continued prioritisation of private cars over bikes. Of course the devil will be in the detail and if cycle infrastructure gets dropped/downgraded/rerouted due to pressure on politicians over the next couple of elections then it will all be a pile of ****e but I would hold fire for now.

If you have time, here is an interesting presentation given by the consultant Jarrett Walker for the project to Engineers Ireland 12 months ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm3xa5Z847Q&t=3552s

superman28

Quite impressive, If they actually follow through..

I presume the dedicated cycle track passes behind each bus stop? I believe this is based off the Copenhagen style road layout (which I have cycled on) and is amazing.. Also I hope they include eye level traffic lights for cyclists to match lights at each cross section. I don't see this mentioned. Can cyclists also use the bus lanes? I presume no..

theyoungchap

superman28 wrote: »

Also I hope they include eye level traffic lights for cyclists to match lights at each cross section. I don't see this mentioned.

They are already there on the canal, nobody pays a blind bit of attention to them!

cdaly_

superman28 wrote: »

Can cyclists also use the bus lanes? I presume no..

Yes they can. It's in the legislation.

SPDUB

RayCun wrote: »

Because South Circular Road and the canal are the two east/west arteries. Traffic coming from Long Mile Road/Crumlin and wanting to go east has to take one of those roads.

Maybe the road should be widened, or the right turn onto the canal should be allowed, or some other change should be made, but there has to be a right turn there somewhere.

I live in the area so quite familiar with these junctions

There is a right turn allowed onto the canal just not directly .

You are meant to turn right at the Rutlland Ave flats ( Seagull House ) and then go round the green and turn to the right at the Dolphins Barn fire station .There is a yellow box on the canal road at that point so that you are given space to turn onto the canal when the canal traffic is waiting at the lights .

Apart from at the Donore Avenue junction it is very difficult to turn directly back onto the canal from the Sth Cir Rd .

Annie get your Run

cdaly_ wrote: »

Yes they can. It's in the legislation.

I think he may have been referring to the new bus connect lanes? which we will not be able to use AFAIK (but taxis will :mad:)

loyatemu

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I think he may have been referring to the new bus connect lanes? which we will not be able to use AFAIK (but taxis will :mad:)

as of now, the "Busconnect lanes" are just Bus Lanes, there has been no suggestion that they will be anything else. There's a difference between providing a designated cycling route and barring cyclists from using the old route.

It's still perfectly legal to cycle on the coast road at Clontarf, or on the roads adjacent to the grand canal cycle route.

Grassey

loyatemu wrote:

as of now, the "Busconnect lanes" are just Bus Lanes, there has been no suggestion that they will be anything else. There's a difference between providing a designated cycling route and barring cyclists from using the old route.

Does busconnect overlap/compliment the BRT routes though? Eg the BRT from Rathfarnham to CC via harolds Cross. Pretty sure I saw that the BRT are planned to be BRT/bus only for rapid transit times.

loyatemu

Grassey wrote: »

Does busconnect overlap/compliment the BRT routes though? Eg the BRT from Rathfarnham to CC via harolds Cross. Pretty sure I saw that the BRT are planned to be BRT/bus only for rapid transit times.

nothing really revealed about BRT yet. It was proposed a couple of years ago, but when BusConnects was announced last year it initially looked like BRT had been scrapped altogether. However the BusConnects documents mention it in a couple of places so maybe it will reappear. The proposed new bus routes are to be unveiled in July so we may find out more then.

theyoungchap

I suspect cyclists will be banned from the new lanes though, no point promising a high-speed bus lane and buses getting stuck behind cyclists (I used to hate on N11 at the rugby pitch holding up a bus behind me but it wasn't my fault they didn't have room to overtake).
Once they make provision for us all, I don't think anybody will mind.

Thinkingaboutit

theyoungchap wrote: »

I suspect cyclists will be banned from the new lanes though, no point promising a high-speed bus lane and buses getting stuck behind cyclists (I used to hate on N11 at the rugby pitch holding up a bus behind me but it wasn't my fault they didn't have room to overtake).
Once they make provision for us all, I don't think anybody will mind.

The thing with Irish off road or partitioned cycle lanes is there seems to be a habit of implementing extraordinarily bad design to the 'ah shure, it'll be grand' standard. Maybe it's too much to hope Councils follow international best practice, but at least a measure of common sense.

theyoungchap

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

The thing with Irish off road or partitioned cycle lanes is there seems to be a habit of implementing extraordinarily bad design to the 'ah shure, it'll be grand' standard. Maybe it's too much to hope Councils follow international best practice, but at least a measure of common sense.

True, but at the same time it must be a nightmare to make room for everybody in Dublin with the narrow streets, etc. I don't envy them!

tommythecat

But surely in a situation like Rathmines they can’t say that you cannot cycle through Rathmines anymore? How do you access the local amenities in that case. I can’t see how that would work.

theyoungchap

I'd say the loser in Rathmines will be the car driver. There is 3 lanes (mainly), 1 for a bus each way, probably enough for a cycle path, the 3rd lane to be one way traffic?

Macy0161

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

The thing with Irish off road or partitioned cycle lanes is there seems to be a habit of implementing extraordinarily bad design to the 'ah shure, it'll be grand' standard. Maybe it's too much to hope Councils follow international best practice, but at least a measure of common sense.

It's a "perfectly good" design that has me going up and down every driveway, and giving way at every junction which the mainline road has priority...

Rechuchote

theyoungchap wrote: »

I'd say the loser in Rathmines will be the car driver. There is 3 lanes (mainly), 1 for a bus each way, probably enough for a cycle path, the 3rd lane to be one way traffic?

Their plan is to make a parallel cycle route going through (it appears) Cathal Brugha Barracks. Which must be a nightmare for the barracks, as they have to have soldiers on every entrance.

tommythecat

Rechuchote wrote: »

Their plan is to make a parallel cycle route going through (it appears) Cathal Brugha Barracks. Which must be a nightmare for the barracks, as they have to have soldiers on every entrance.

Yes but will that mean you are not allowed cycle through Rathmines to access the shops?

Chips Lovell

You're allowed cycle on a bus lane. They haven't announced any plans to change that.

theyoungchap

tommythecat wrote: »

Yes but will that mean you are not allowed cycle through Rathmines to access the shops?

I'm sure they have or will think through that people want to cycle to the shops in Rathmines......

tommythecat

theyoungchap wrote: »

I'm sure they have or will think through that people want to cycle to the shops in Rathmines......

I wouldn't hold my breath! I'm not sure they would be talking about this other cycling route if they intended that you could still use the bus lane. Who knows

theyoungchap

tommythecat wrote: »

I wouldn't hold my breath! I'm not sure they would be talking about this other cycling route if they intended that you could still use the bus lane. Who knows

It is only at high level design.....literally a drawing on a map. Hasn't been a rap of consultation, etc as yet.
I am sure the Retailers in Rathmines would be fuming if they didn't have passing cyclist traffic.
I wouldn't stay awake worrying about any element of this plan at this stage.........