New bus lanes set to greatly reduce journey times by 50%

AndrewJRenko

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Ok then, list off those six things please

Here's my six things:

Enforcement of bus lanes
Enforcement of bus lanes
Enforcement of bus lanes
Enforcement of bus lanes
Enforcement of bus lanes
Enforcement of bus lanes

The Charlemont St bus lane is blocked by 5-10 builders vans and cars (mostly Skodas, mostly NI regs) every morning

It was blocked back up in Ranelagh by two private detectives in two cars one morning last week during rush hour, doing a surveillance op, but they didn't seem keen to chat.

We really, really need to enforce existing lanes urgently. But I guess that's not as much fun as making plans for the next generation.

Chris_5339762

Dublin actually has quite a lot of bus lanes. Certainly in the center. The suburbs are awful in general for that.

But if we enforced the bus lanes we'd probably get a decent reduction in journey times. Its absolutely bonkers.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZZHvZduLmHq

Harolds Cross inbound. Bus lane, inbound lane, outbound lane, bus lane. This plan will basically not change this.

Inbound traffic lane gets blocked by a single car (legally) turning right at the canals.

So traffic queues in the bus lane. Morning, noon and night. Right back to where this image is taken. Its this kind of attitude that will kill this project.

Seth Brundle

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It was blocked back up in Ranelagh by two private detectives in two cars one morning last week during rush hour, doing a surveillance op, but they didn't seem keen to chat.

How do you know they were private dicks doing a surveillance OP?

Charles Babbage

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Dublin actually has quite a lot of bus lanes. Certainly in the center. The suburbs are awful in general for that.

But if we enforced the bus lanes we'd probably get a decent reduction in journey times. Its absolutely bonkers.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZZHvZduLmHq

Harolds Cross inbound. Bus lane, inbound lane, outbound lane, bus lane. This plan will basically not change this.

Inbound traffic lane gets blocked by a single car (legally) turning right at the canals.

So traffic queues in the bus lane. Morning, noon and night. Right back to where this image is taken. Its this kind of attitude that will kill this project.

Yet if at Harolds Cross road there are relatively new buildings at the corner of the canal. If these had been set back 3m in their planning there would have been space for a short right turn or left turn lane and that pinch point would have been eliminated.

ED E

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Yet if at Harolds Cross road there are relatively new buildings at the corner of the canal. If these had been set back 3m in their planning there would have been space for a short right turn or left turn lane and that pinch point would have been eliminated.

Also a prime example of enforcement. Far side is constantly blocked with shop clientele. Note: Within spitting distance of DSPS headquarters....

Stephen15

I don't get why you see so many cars parked outside local shops surely the whole idea of local shops is that they are within walking distance of your house compared to supermarkets and shopping centres.

GhostyMcGhost

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't get why you see so many cars parked outside local shops surely the whole idea of local shops is that they are within walking distance of your house compared to supermarkets and shopping centres.

The same reason traffic around local schools is nothing short of a farce

The same reason we're the most obese in Europe

People even park in wheelchair spots because regular spots aren't close enough

I'd say if you took a survey, we'd be Europe's most lazy by a country mile

ED E

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't get why you see so many cars parked outside local shops surely the whole idea of local shops is that they are within walking distance of your house compared to supermarkets and shopping centres.

Large portion of the blockers there are builders in transit vans stopped to visit the deli then spend 20 mins in the van, in a clearway+cycle lane, to eat it.

trellheim

As a counter, look at the Old Cabra Road for example. There is no bus lane, nor room for one ( as it stands at the moment) . Enforcement of existing bus lanes will not wash - none exist. The same goes for Prussia St right down to the junction with Aughrim st. This is the always-jammed 37/39/39a/70 corridor and it is one of those planned to be 24/7

In most times you can see one or two 39s caught along this stretch with nowhere to go. This plan would directly improve these routes.

cgcsb

trellheim wrote: »

As a counter, look at the Old Cabra Road for example. There is no bus lane, nor room for one ( as it stands at the moment) . Enforcement of existing bus lanes will not wash - none exist. The same goes for Prussia St right down to the junction with Aughrim st. This is the always-jammed 37/39/39a/70 corridor and it is one of those planned to be 24/7

In most times you can see one or two 39s caught along this stretch with nowhere to go. This plan would directly improve these routes.

There is a plan in place to demolish Prussia Street shopping Centre and replace it with student accommodation(no parking) and a small Tesco(I think with a small underground car park). There's a car garage on Prussia street which may be gone in a few years. Other than that there's a few old houses with no existing parking facilities, so the local access problem is probably manageable. The Old Cabra Road However is another story. Perhaps they could CPO a few gardens down as far as Glenbeigh avenue and have two bus lanes and two traffic lanes, with the traffic lanes turning right onto glenbeigh. That only leaves you with a few houses and a Lidl store. The car access for the Lidl store can be relocated to Anamoe. Trickey but doable with limited local access.

Markcheese

So is one body (NTA maybe?) going to take responsibility for the whole bus route... Road surface,bus stops, lanes buses the lot...
So if enforcement is needed they can hire a tow truck.. Or employ a lane warden, or put in cameras... Basically unilaterally fix the pinch point problems...

monument

cgcsb wrote: »

There is a plan in place to demolish Prussia Street shopping Centre and replace it with student accommodation(no parking) and a small Tesco(I think with a small underground car park). There's a car garage on Prussia street which may be gone in a few years. Other than that there's a few old houses with no existing parking facilities, so the local access problem is probably manageable. The Old Cabra Road However is another story. Perhaps they could CPO a few gardens down as far as Glenbeigh avenue and have two bus lanes and two traffic lanes, with the traffic lanes turning right onto glenbeigh. That only leaves you with a few houses and a Lidl store. The car access for the Lidl store can be relocated to Anamoe. Trickey but doable with limited local access.

I think I might have been the first one to suggested a bus gate on Old Cabra Road, at least publicly on here. And there shouldn’t be any issue even Lidl.

Back then I recall posting it at least thinking that the builders/plumber’s providers entrance could be relocated — sad but not suprissing to hear where the entrance to Lidl was built even when the BRT route planned.

cgcsb

We have number plate recognition and camera enforcement should be a central part of bus connects so it should be possible to exempt residents fairly easily. It's visitors and shoppers that would threaten the integrity of the system you could set a min time to enter/exit old cabra road and/or Prussia street in a car. Say if you spend less than 10 mins on either road you're not a visitor of shopper and should be fined. It's a 1.5 km stretch, managing it could be tricky.

markpb

ED E wrote: »

The m50 has cameras, you will be fined if you miss the 48hr window. Ask yourself why college green doesn't have cameras at the bus gate.

Because the ANPR system on the M50 cost €29 million and is ugly AF. Also it's more or less self-financing.

cgcsb

€29mil is chicken feed, besides Belfast operated a much lower cost camera enforcement system across the whole city.

bk

dfx- wrote: »

How long did it take to widen that short section of road? What happened to the traffic while it was being done? How long would it take at that rate to do the whole city?

I remember it taking about 3 months. There was little or no impact on traffic. Most was done off road and then the on road finishing bits (lines, etc.) was done mostly off peak with some cone re-arranging. I think it was also done in summer months, so that helps too.

It will take as long as it needs. Of course it all won't happen simultaneously and of course traffic management plans will be put it place to try and limit impact.

Bambi wrote: »

The road widening that has busy bus stops jamming a tiny path and just shifted the northbound bottleneck down to the bridge AND narrowed a footpath to turn it into a cycle lane which the cyclists ignore .

There is actually 4 lanes on that bridge. Though you are correct they aren't dedicated bus lanes and some definitely non-ideal traffic movements off to the junctions. But it is nowhere near the horrible pinch point that Cat&Cage was, that required buses to have to try and squeeze out of a bus lane back into the normal traffic lane, it was insane :eek:

BTW you will be happy to hear that widening the bridge was part of the Swiftway plans, I assume it will be widened as part of this BusConnects plan.

BBTW while they narrowed the footpath on the DCU side, they did a great job on the other side of the road. Such that a number of nice new restaurants and a great butchers have opened up with very attractive street furniture, really rejuvenating the place, looks much nicer now then it use to. It use to be really run down stretch of street. The chipper is the only old run down bit left now on that stretch. Thought the Cat & Cage could do with a lick of paint too.

While the narrow footpath on the DCU side isn't ideal. It is still fine IME. It isn't a particularly heavily trafficked footpath, most people walk on the other side that is more attractive (lots of little cafes and restaurants). The DCU side is mostly just used for students waiting for the bus. The high walls of DCU don't make it an attractive footpath to walk down. You feel a bit squeezed between a high wall on one side and the road on the other. Pity they couldn't get DCU to knock the wall. Even just more open style fences would open it up a lot and make it more attractive.

While it would be preferable if that footpath was wider, overall the job has been a fantastic success, both in the improvements to the bus movements, to the cycling (yes I use these Cycle lanes) and to helping rebuild the footpath and rejuvenate the area on the non DCU side.

cython

markpb wrote: »

Because the ANPR system on the M50 cost €29 million and is ugly AF. Also it's more or less self-financing.

It's also covering about 8 lanes or more, and monitoring a much greater number of vehicles travelling much faster. Not to mention that the equiment is not solely ANPR, but also tag readers, etc.

It's a safe assumption that a more discreet and cheaper solution could be implemented for College Green without having to try too hard. You only have to look as far as the few red light cameras on the Luas red line for an example.

bk

Interestingly Google Maps has pictures of the Cat & Cage area from both before and after the widening and I think it could give folks a good idea what is involved in this sort of thing. Obviously the details will differ from place to place.

This is what the street looked like at the Cat & Cage before widening. Notice just two lanes, one in each direction. There are four lanes (dedicated bus lane going both directions) before and after this 100m section. Buses use to have to try and squeeze out of the bus lanes and into these two lanes :eek:

This is looking North



Here you can see the widening works. You see little impact on traffic as it was being built:



And now you can see the result, four continuous lanes, brilliant. You can even sort of see to the left that they also put an inset bus stop off the bus lane, so stopped buses shouldn't block other buses. I think that was part of the Swiftway plans for the area.



BTW Those pictures remind me that the footpath outside DCU was always narrow, as you can see in the first picture. The new footpath is no more narrow, it is just set back further.

Interestingly the above three pictures were obviously taken by Google Maps at three different times, the Cat & Cage is three different colours in them!

bk

Even better after picture here. It covers the same area as the second picture above (maybe 2 meters ahead of it):

wakka12

Wow, job well done.

cfuserkildare

So tell me,

Who is going to Fund all these traffic improvements?

marno21

cfuserkildare wrote: »

So tell me,

Who is going to Fund all these traffic improvements?

BusConnects Dublin has a €2bn funding allocation under the National Development Plan 2018-2027.

cgcsb

cfuserkildare wrote: »

So tell me,

Who is going to Fund all these traffic improvements?

The state of course, the project has a €2bn budget.

Seth Brundle

cfuserkildare wrote: »

So tell me,

Who is going to Fund all these traffic improvements?

The same people who fund other infrastructure projects including motorway projects, why?

loyatemu

wakka12 wrote: »

Wow, job well done.

except for the cycle lanes - I think (hope) BusConnects is planning higher quality cycle facilities with segregation/protection and with the lanes going around the back of bus stops.

bk

loyatemu wrote: »

except for the cycle lanes - I think (hope) BusConnects is planning higher quality cycle facilities with segregation/protection and with the lanes going around the back of bus stops.

I'm not sure about going around the back of the bus stops, but the drawings from the BusConnects document published last week show the bike lanes being higher then the bus lane and thus physically separated.

Obviously we need to wait and see the detailed plans.

cgcsb

I'm very keen to see what happens in the City Centre, what happens there will dictate what happens on each corridor anyway and it is the biggest pinch point. I expect punative car bans from the quays will greatly reduce car traffic on many corridors and possibly move some traffic from one corridor to another which may impact the design of infrastructure.

Also the orbital routes may also be competing with cars and they cannot be forgotten about, it is absolutely bonkers that the M50, the state's busiest road has no parallel public transport alternative of any kind.

ED E

bk wrote: »

I'm not sure about going around the back of the bus stops, but the drawings from the BusConnects document published last week show the bike lanes being higher then the bus lane and thus physically separated.

Obviously we need to wait and see the detailed plans.

I hope we'll see a Tallaght Village style setup.

I expect we'll see an N11 style dogs dinner.

loyatemu

ED E wrote: »

I hope we'll see a Tallaght Village style setup.

I expect we'll see an N11 style dogs dinner.

the proposals for Fairview look good, so hopefully more of that.

Qrt

ED E wrote: »

I hope we'll see a Tallaght Village style setup.

I expect we'll see an N11 style dogs dinner.

I take it you're talking about the whole Tallaght Village-M50 cycle track and not the village in general? Because that's just two big bitumen bikes on the road...

ED E

Qrt wrote: »

I take it you're talking about the whole Tallaght Village-M50 cycle track and not the village in general? Because that's just two big bitumen bikes on the road...

Indeed. One of the few places with proper floating bus stops (https://goo.gl/maps/aNXarVNYjpk for those that dont know the area). Now upgraded with flexi wands too.

howiya

ED E wrote: »

Indeed. One of the few places with proper floating bus stops (https://goo.gl/maps/aNXarVNYjpk for those that dont know the area). Now upgraded with flexi wands too.

Took a long time to build. May need to extend the deadline for this project if the Tallaght project is anything to go by.

Was out and about earlier and was reminded of an example of a current bus lane that only needs a simple change to make it a lot more effective.

Dolphins Barn inbound. There are two lanes, one of which is a bus lane part of the way. At the junction with SCR, there is a right turn and traffic wanting to continue to Cork St has to merge into the left making the bus lane totally pointless. Bus lane then resumes on Cork St. Banning the right turn to SCR and extending the bus lane closer to the junction would avoid this merge and make traffic move smoother.

RayCun

howiya wrote: »

Banning the right turn to SCR and extending the bus lane closer to the junction would avoid this merge and make traffic move smoother.

That traffic comes from Crumlin, Long Mile Road, M50. If it didn't turn right there, where should it turn?

howiya

RayCun wrote: »

That traffic comes from Crumlin, Long Mile Road, M50. If it didn't turn right there, where should it turn?

There are multiple right turns. Kildare Road, Sundrive Road, Rutland Avenue, Donore Avenue as examples.

RayCun

howiya wrote: »

There are multiple right turns. Kildare Road, Sundrive Road, Rutland Avenue, Donore Avenue as examples.

Kildare Road is through a residential area with speed bumps

Sundrive Road leads to the Kimmage traffic jam

There is no right-turning lane for Rutland Avenue, so you'd have the same problem - a queue of cars turning right, and straight-ahead cars joining the bus lane

Donore Avenue is into residential areas again (and is much further on)

pclive

A well placed bus lane enforcement camera would solve this problem over night

Chris_5339762

howiya wrote: »

Dolphins Barn inbound. There are two lanes, one of which is a bus lane part of the way. At the junction with SCR, there is a right turn and traffic wanting to continue to Cork St has to merge into the left making the bus lane totally pointless. Bus lane then resumes on Cork St. Banning the right turn to SCR and extending the bus lane closer to the junction would avoid this merge and make traffic move smoother.

I save loads of time by ignoring the traffic queueing in the bus lane, merging where I should and continuing onwards. Much to the ire of those queueing.

howiya

RayCun wrote: »

Kildare Road is through a residential area with speed bumps

Sundrive Road leads to the Kimmage traffic jam

There is no right-turning lane for Rutland Avenue, so you'd have the same problem - a queue of cars turning right, and straight-ahead cars joining the bus lane

Donore Avenue is into residential areas again (and is much further on)

It's probably going to happen under the Bus Connects plan anyway as this is one of the corridors included. All I'm saying is it could be done tomorrow without great fanfare.