Transsexual Prisoners

padd b1975

Owen Jones is a hateful little bitch with absolutely zero tolerance of any opinion that differs from his own.

sbsquarepants

wexie wrote: »

your mates wife has an adams apple? Maybe you should tell him

She could have a mickey too - he'd know better than me;)

I'm not joking though - she's a bloody ringer for that German tranny!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mutant z wrote: »

They are scum whatever they want to identify as i hope they rot in their cells surrounded by faeces and piss for the rest of their lives.

That's a bit harsh - I mean, I don't like the actions any more than you do, but they have a right to say to say what they want on their own Twitter accounts...

RocketRaccoon

sbsquarepants wrote: »

She could have a mickey too - he'd know better than me;)

I'm not joking though - she's a bloody ringer for that German tranny!

Uh oh, mind yourself around these parts for saying tranny.

jimgoose

I'm confused - are we outraged because Ian Huntley wants to be called Loretta, or because Graham Linehan is outraged?

Gravelly

jimgoose wrote: »

I'm confused - are we outraged because Ian Huntley wants to be called Loretta, or because Graham Linehan is outraged?

Outraged by huntley, amused by linehan being savaged by his own pets.

jimgoose

Gravelly wrote: »

Outraged by huntley, amused by linehan being savaged by his own pets.

Lord and master, hear me crying! -
Ah, he comes excited.
Sir, my need is sore.
Spirits that I've cited
My commands ignore.

Neyite

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The reason why a lot of these despised criminals are claiming to be trans is because life is easier in a female prison for them.

Huntley is far from the only one.

If they don't like the prison, then they shouldn't have done the crimes they are banged up for. They shouldn't get moved. Most of those claiming to self identify are serving convictions for violent crimes - usually towards women.

Putting someone who's serving a sentence for rape into a woman's prison because he dons a wig and has decided to be called Loretta is like putting a fox into a hen house. Female prisoners have the right to safety while serving their sentences.

By the way, Huntley wanted to change his name to the same name as the mother of one of his victims. That tells you what kind of a person he is. He's just doing it to get attention just like Ian Brady back in the day toyed with authorities and grieving parents for entertainment value during his incarceration. Huntley is no more trans than I am.

corner of hells

Omackeral wrote: »

Before this descends into poisonous bile, let me share a somehat relevant and kinda weird story with y'all.

My very first week as a young prison officer I had to deal with inmates on protection such as vunerable and at risk prisoners. This was in a male prison. One of the very first inmates I met was trans. It was a surreal thing to deal with on my first week. He/She was 6 foot, shaped like a Fanta bottle and was driving all the other inmates mad with confusion and whatever else that they had to house her elsewhere. It gets weirder. I was there supervising them all getting their supper and she walks up, all hips and all, to collect her food. Looks at me and asks ''hey sweetie, what are we having?''. I'm all nervous and such and say ''em, it's just a pie and some peas''. She retorts ''I hope it's a sweet pie like you!''. So surreal.

And yet, that's not the end of it. She was apparently on the German version of Big Brother back in the early 2000's ha ha. I'll see if I can can find her.

Ha here, she is.

Big Brother Germany profile

Is that not you Omackeral ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jimgoose wrote: »

I'm confused - are we outraged because Ian Huntley wants to be called Loretta, or because Graham Linehan is outraged?

Neither, you're supposed to be outraged by the neo-liberal bleeding-heart pinko-hippy apologist left, and against any form of self-expression that goes against the norm in an country allegedly open to free expression, but you know yourself - the moment someone mentions a convicted pedophile, the thread will instantly be about that pedophile and graphic cartoon-like depictions of what should be done with them.

RocketRaccoon

Neyite wrote: »

Huntley is no more trans than I am.

How do you know? He has as much right to decide as every other person who has decided their born gender isn't for them.

Horrible crimes, disgusting human being but still should be allowed to make that decision for himself.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

How do you know? He has as much right to decide as every other person who has decided their born gender isn't for them.

Horrible crimes, disgusting human being but still should be allowed to make that decision for himself.

Perhaps Neyite IS transgender...? How do YOU know?!

Ragnar Lothbrok

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

How do you know? He has as much right to decide as every other person who has decided their born gender isn't for them.

Horrible crimes, disgusting human being but still should be allowed to make that decision for himself.

Unless that decision is based purely on an ulterior motive, of course, in which case the psychological/medical authorities would hopefully recognise this for what it probably is: a means to a move into a safer environment.

razorblunt

Is it a reboot? I'd be interested if Michael Bay wasn't directing.

RocketRaccoon

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Unless that decision is based purely on an ulterior motive, of course, in which case the psychological/medical authorities would hopefully recognise this for what it probably is: a means to a move into a safer environment.

And that decision is down to those authorities you mentioned, not a bunch of hypocrites online and on the street.

Ragnar Lothbrok

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

And that decision is down to those authorities you mentioned, not a bunch of hypocrites online and on the street.

Yes, absolutely.

I suppose the most important thing to think about is if in future he is accepted as female, what happens to him then?

Perhaps there's an argument for prisons to have some sort of transgender wing? I would still want Huntly to be very securely imprisoned, and kept away from all other prisoners, be they male, female, transgender or whoever they identify as.

suicide_circus

The scramble to be the most woke is a pathetic spectacle

Franz Von Peppercorn

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

How do you know? He has as much right to decide as every other person who has decided their born gender isn't for them.

Horrible crimes, disgusting human being but still should be allowed to make that decision for himself.

How does anybody know. Is it always self identification?

EdgeCase

He's a minimum term of 40 years - it needs to be served on way or the other.

It's hard to make good law for a hard case like this, but my view of it is why bother wasting good money and elective health services on him.

Chelsea Manning was a whole other category of prisoner, in for what was basically a political crime of whistleblowing and exposing the state's wrongdoing.

Trying to compare the two people is impossible. One's someone who was trying to expose wrong and was punished extraordinarily heavily for it, the other is a child murderer. There just isn't a comparison at all.

How do you universally legislate for something like this though? Who judges?
It's a bit of a mess.

Also, if you did put him into a women's prison, how long before it turns Prisoner Cell Block H and he's beaten to a pulp and claiming he needs special treatment and protection? Women aren't some kind of delicate flowers and many don't really have much time for violent child murders.

Someone like Huntley shouldn't really be in the normal prison population anyway. There should be a special place for that kind of prisoner. It's unfair on your average criminal to have to share space and air with someone like that.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

How does anybody know. Is it always self identification?

Good question actually.

I feel so I am.

How could any doctor tell a person that they're not transgender.

Kimbot

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Yes, absolutely.

I suppose the most important thing to think about is if in future he is accepted as female, what happens to him then?

Perhaps there's an argument for prisons to have some sort of transgender wing? I would still want Huntly to be very securely imprisoned, and kept away from all other prisoners, be they male, female, transgender or whoever they identify as.

Well I'm pretty sure all jails have a section where they keep vunerable prisoners already so they should be placed in there but from what I know they would be locked up 23 hours a day which human rights would have a field day on it.

GingerLily

I don't think a prisoner with male genital should be housed in a women's prison.

I don't think a rapist (Huntley had been accused of several underage rapes before the murders), should be allowed in a women's prison.

Its not about trans rights, its about a horrible monster trying to manipulate the rules.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Perhaps Neyite IS transgender...? How do YOU know?!

Changes every day mebbe.

Trans isn’t like other social libertarian ideologies, those are generally live and let live. Gay marriage doesn’t harm hetro marriage despite what some people claimed. Abortion is about letting women do what they want with their bodies. Without a religious belief in the humanness of the early stage foetus that was simply a no brainer.


This one comes with fairly radical consequences.

jmayo

You know at times like these there is a lot to be said for the likes of the Chinese justice system.

In China this would never be up for debate because the scumbag that is mr huntley would have had a firing squad and the human race would have been done a massive favour.

Also the more I hear of the rabid debates and pontificating by the celebrity classes on twatt-er the more I am glad I never go near it.

Malayalam

GingerLily wrote: »

I don't think a prisoner with male genital should be housed in a women's prison.

I don't think a rapist (Huntley had been accused of several underage rapes before the murders), should be allowed in a women's prison.

Its not about trans rights, its about a horrible monster trying to manipulate the rules.

problem is that it will be made (ludicrously) about trans rights. It's the absolutely logical and rational conclusion to self identification.

Why don't they house prisoners according to actual empirically-observable genitalia? You know, just to avoid rape and such.
(Hmmm, that opens another can of worms.)
It's very perplexing, isn't it.

And what about a future case of a young and vulnerable FtM trans prisoner who if it became practice by law to house MtF trans in women's prisons would by logical extension HAVE to be housed in male units? That would be a bloody disaster.

Burn everything. It's the only solution.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

GingerLily wrote: »

I don't think a prisoner with male genital should be housed in a women's prison.

I don't think a rapist (Huntley had been accused of several underage rapes before the murders), should be allowed in a women's prison.

Its not about trans rights, its about a horrible monster trying to manipulate the rules.

Oh, he most certainly won't be, one way or the other. In any case, I don't think the HSE (or whoever deals with this) is any way required to give him estrogen pills and other aids to help his transition

Also, your second second contradicts itself: being accused of something doesn't make you something.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Changes every day mebbe.

Trans isn’t like other social libertarian ideologies, those are generally live and let live. Gay marriage doesn’t harm hetro marriage despite what some people claimed. Abortion is about letting women do what they want with their bodies. Without a religious belief in the humanness of the early stage foetus that was simply a no brainer.


This one comes with fairly radical consequences.

Generally speaking, or specifcially to Huntley/prisoners in general?

Malayalam wrote: »

problem is that it will be made (ludicrously) about trans rights. It's the absolutely logical and rational conclusion to self identification.

Why don't they house prisoners according to actual empirically-observable genitalia? You know, just to avoid rape and such.
(Hmmm, that opens another can of worms.)
It's very perplexing, isn't it.

And what about a future case of a young and vulnerable FtM trans prisoner who if it became practice by law to house MtF trans in women's prisons would by logical extension HAVE to be housed in male units? That would be a bloody disaster.

Burn everything. It's the only solution.

Again, people have that right. No one can take it away. They can take away your right to express it, but not your ability to identify.

Malayalam

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Generally speaking, or specifcially to Huntley/prisoners in general?



Again, people have that right. No one can take it away. They can take away your right to express it, but not your ability to identify.

I am not trying to take away people's rights to identify however they wish..as Martians, rabbits, whatever. I'm saying that there are certain unavoidable logical conclusions to gender self-identification, which includes persons with intact male organs seeking to enter and probably eventually succeeding in entering what have been previously female only spaces, such as female prisons, women's refuges, girl's dressing rooms. Likewise FtM will be able to enter male spaces, although this does not yet arise as such a flashpoint because the female's body even transitioned to male does not have the same physical strength in general. Yes, it is ultimately a question of physical capacity to inflict threat/violence/disturbance. Once we have got that far - trans women with intact male genitals freely moving in confined spaces where women are disempowered (eg prisoners with vaginas who cannot leave spaces where trans women sex offenders are now present, battered women traumatised and without other places of refuge), and it looks like we will, then we have to deal with the consequences, and they look difficult and complex from where i am sitting.

RocketRaccoon

GingerLily wrote: »

I don't think a prisoner with male genital should be housed in a women's prison.

I don't think a rapist (Huntley had been accused of several underage rapes before the murders), should be allowed in a women's prison.

Its not about trans rights, its about a horrible monster trying to manipulate the rules.

He's identifying as a transgender human, he deserves to get everything every other trans demands.

wexie

Malayalam wrote: »

then we have to deal with the consequences, and they look difficult and complex from where i am sitting.

I think more messy rather than anything else.

Of course in theory...a transition(ing)(ed) mtf prisoner would presumably have little interest in using their male sex organs, with consent or otherwise....presuming they are on the level....

Uncharted

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

He's identifying as a transgender human, he deserves to get everything every other trans demands.

Huntley deserves the death penalty.

Not one other thing else.

wexie

\

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

He's identifying as a transgender human, he deserves to get everything every other trans demands.

I'm trying to remember which prison movie I saw this in, I think it was Brubaker perhaps.

Anyways, they made an implement out of 2 serving spoons I think, with which to facilitate 'gender transitioning'...prison style.

Looked something like this

That's about all he should be 'entitled' to

crustybla

neonsofa wrote: »

Came in to see if you'd posted this story

#metoo

SEPT 23 1989

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

He's identifying as a transgender human, he deserves to get everything every other trans demands.

He left the children he murdered in a ditch

The world has gone mad lads..

But like, if you buy the whole trans rights craic this is the logical progression..

Makes a joke out of the justice system..and reality..

That dude lenihen needs to sit down and have a cup of tea or a Xanax or something..

Thank god I'm not on Twitter..

DEFTLEFTHAND

I'd say Huntley is already in a segregated unt, somebody tried to murder him a few years back.

A man with his crimes wouldn't be safe to house in general population or whatever the equivalent term is.


He'd be a walking target.

RocketRaccoon

Uncharted wrote: »

Huntley deserves the death penalty.

Not one other thing else.

I wholeheartedly agree, I have 2 daughters myself but this is the snowflake generation we live in. If anyone else is able to just up and change their gender on a whim then unfortunately subhuman creatures like Huntley can do the same.

wexie

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'd say Huntley is already in a segregated unt, somebody tried to murder him a few years back.

A man with his crimes wouldn't be safe to house in general population or whatever the equivalent term is.


He'd be a walking target.

and that would be bad because.....?

oh yeah....'human' rights

RocketRaccoon

wexie wrote: »

and that would be bad because.....?

oh yeah....'human' rights

You'd still have people protesting against him receiving that sort of treatment in prison, it's a sad world we live in.

Malayalam

wexie wrote: »

I think more messy rather than anything else.

Of course in theory...a transition(ing)(ed) mtf prisoner would presumably have little interest in using their male sex organs, with consent or otherwise....presuming they are on the level....

I don't think that the full import of self identifying trans is understood. A person may desire to use their tackle as much as ever but still self identify as a woman - as far as I understand. For example in autogynophelia (though hush now that may be only a small part of transexualism, I ain't saying otherwise..) the thought of having sex using said tackle while identifying as a woman is the specifically arousing factor. The basic idea being fought for is that women have penises too - and they re not necessarily disinclined to use them.

Uncharted

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree, I have 2 daughters myself but this is the snowflake generation we live in. If anyone else is able to just up and change their gender on a whim then unfortunately subhuman creatures like Huntley can do the same.

I'm not exactly certain about the "on a whim" bit but back on topic,Huntley deserves nothing.
Especially at the expense of the British tax payer!
That's just sick irony.
He has proven himself to be an egocentric,manipulative and murdering pyscopath.

He's manipulating the system to have a cosier innings... scummy piece of sh1t that he is.

An Ri rua

Omackeral wrote:

My very first week as a young prison officer I had to deal with inmates on protection such as vunerable and at risk prisoners. This was in a male prison. One of the very first inmates I met was trans. It was a surreal thing to deal with on my first week. He/She was 6 foot, shaped like a Fanta bottle and was driving all the other inmates mad with confusion and whatever else that they had to house her elsewhere. It gets weirder. I was there supervising them all getting their supper and she walks up, all hips and all, to collect her food. Looks at me and asks ''hey sweetie, what are we having?''. I'm all nervous and such and say ''em, it's just a pie and some peas''. She retorts ''I hope it's a sweet pie like you!''. So surreal.

Omackeral wrote:

Before this descends into poisonous bile, let me share a somehat relevant and kinda weird story with y'all.

Omackeral wrote:

And yet, that's not the end of it. She was apparently on the German version of Big Brother back in the early 2000's ha ha. I'll see if I can can find her.

Omackeral wrote:

Ha here, she is.

You've retired then? Ex prison officer? I hope so, or this is a serious breach of your public office ethics. Not to mention this person's rights.
Great story, without needing specifics.

Manic Moran

EdgeCase wrote: »

Chelsea Manning was a whole other category of prisoner, in for what was basically a political crime of whistleblowing and exposing the state's wrongdoing.

Trying to compare the two people is impossible. One's someone who was trying to expose wrong and was punished extraordinarily heavily for it, the other is a child murderer. There just isn't a comparison at all.

I would disagree with this. One's gender identification has very little to do with the nature of the crime committed, or of the prison sentence to be carried out, no? Possible exception of some sexually based crimes.

For instances of forced proximity and confinement, such as prison, I do think the US military's current policy is the correct one to follow. Treat the person as an identified gender only in the case of a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria: An inability to function normally when treated as a member of the biological sex. By definition, a prisoner without gender dysphoria can function normally when in a prison for one gender when identifying as the other. The smooth running of a prison is more important than the personal preferences of any particular prisoner.

Further, such confined statuses allow easier assessments of whether the person actually does identify as the other gender or is just faking it. Whatever policies one wishes to hold out in the general public, in the general public there is always the opportunity for someone who feels unhappy to turn around and walk the other way. Not so in a prison.

DEFTLEFTHAND

wexie wrote: »

and that would be bad because.....?

oh yeah....'human' rights

I know but the prison has a duty of care to its prisoners.

No matter how heinous their crimes.

wexie

Malayalam wrote: »

I don't think that the full import of self identifying trans is understood. A person may desire to use their tackle as much as ever but still self identify as a woman - as far as I understand. For example in autogynophelia (though hush now that may be only a small part of transexualism, I ain't saying otherwise..) the thought of having sex using said tackle while identifying as a woman is the specifically arousing factor. The basic idea being fought for is that women have penises too - and they re not necessarily disinclined to use them.

mmmmmyeah......I try to be understanding and open minded and all....

But that's not gender dysphoria, that's mental illness.

AllForIt

I think trans women can ever loose their muscularity no matter what they can snip off so they should be in a male prision. They would have a physical advantage if they were put in a woman's section which I don't think they should have.

Tigger

Omackeral wrote: »

Before this descends into poisonous bile, let me share a somehat relevant and kinda weird story with y'all.

My very first week as a young prison officer I had to deal with inmates on protection such as vunerable and at risk prisoners. This was in a male prison. One of the very first inmates I met was trans. It was a surreal thing to deal with on my first week. He/She was 6 foot, shaped like a Fanta bottle and was driving all the other inmates mad with confusion and whatever else that they had to house her elsewhere. It gets weirder. I was there supervising them all getting their supper and she walks up, all hips and all, to collect her food. Looks at me and asks ''hey sweetie, what are we having?''. I'm all nervous and such and say ''em, it's just a pie and some peas''. She retorts ''I hope it's a sweet pie like you!''. So surreal.

And yet, that's not the end of it. She was apparently on the German version of Big Brother back in the early 2000's ha ha. I'll see if I can can find her.

Ha here, she is.

Big Brother Germany profile

how many kids did they kill?

Uncharted

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I know but the prison has a duty of care to its prisoners.

No matter how heinous their crimes.

No doubt about the law and what it states regarding welfare of prisoners,but there ain't a human on the planet who wouldn't look the other way if that bastard was being shivved in his cell.

doolox

The question is should society have gender based prisons? In the West we deny prisoners alcohol and other psycho tropic drugs, we segregate the sexes so that romantic liaisons cannot happen and we dictate everything from freedom of movement, food eaten and when eaten and when the prisoners sleep and are awake. They are not even allowed control of their lights or TV etc.

As a society we infantalise them.

Since society have fertility control and the means to prevent conception there should be no reason to prevent sexual congress between prisoners except that there exists a will to punish prisoners in a vindictive way for their crimes.

Most Western societies boast of imprisonment as being a reformative process. The revenge motive for prison has, in most official eyes, being relegated to history like burning at the stake, confinement to the stocks and public execution as barbaric acts of a bygone age.

Since modern society still confines people by gender, denies them the comforts of alcohol ( strangely prisoners are still allowed to smoke, powerful tobacco lobby????) and still separate men from women like 19th century school children we can say that the prison systems of most so-called liberal western societies still have much room for improvement.

The goal of prisons in my mind should be to separate people from society who have demonstrated dangerous levels of anti - social violence towards other members of society. To be used only when we need to protect other people in general society from harm. In my mind it should not be used for theft, crimes against property or non violent crimes because this only amounts to State terrorism. Where it can be proven that one mans acts have led to suicide or massive social dislocation then prison might be an answer, such as the recent Anglo-Irish Bank case but this smacks of populist revenge to my mind. It seems obvious that the boss of Anglo-Irish will never resort to personal violence and would not be a rational candidate for imprisonment but others think differently.

wexie

doolox wrote: »

The question is should society have gender based prisons? In the West we deny prisoners alcohol and other psycho tropic drugs, we segregate the sexes so that romantic liaisons cannot happen and we dictate everything from freedom of movement, food eaten and when eaten and when the prisoners sleep and are awake. They are not even allowed control of their lights or TV etc.

As a society we infantalise them.

Since society have fertility control and the means to prevent conception there should be no reason to prevent sexual congress between prisoners except that there exists a will to punish prisoners in a vindictive way for their crimes.

Most Western societies boast of imprisonment as being a reformative process. The revenge motive for prison has, in most official eyes, being relegated to history like burning at the stake, confinement to the stocks and public execution as barbaric acts of a bygone age.

Since modern society still confines people by gender, denies them the comforts of alcohol ( strangely prisoners are still allowed to smoke, powerful tobacco lobby????) and still separate men from women like 19th century school children we can say that the prison systems of most so-called liberal western societies still have much room for improvement.

The goal of prisons in my mind should be to separate people from society who have demonstrated dangerous levels of anti - social violence towards other members of society. To be used only when we need to protect other people in general society from harm. In my mind it should not be used for theft, crimes against property or non violent crimes because this only amounts to State terrorism. Where it can be proven that one mans acts have led to suicide or massive social dislocation then prison might be an answer, such as the recent Anglo-Irish Bank case but this smacks of populist revenge to my mind. It seems obvious that the boss of Anglo-Irish will never resort to personal violence and would not be a rational candidate for imprisonment but others think differently.

are you actually saying you think coed prisons would be a good idea?

you don't see any drawbacks there at all?