Bank lost title deeds

Sullygirl

Hi,
My mum passed away last year, we have gone through probate etc. we were told we could sell her house. Bank of Ireland, held her title deeds even though she had fully paid her mortgage in 2006. We have a receipt from Bank of Ireland acknowledging receipt of the title deed. We have a buyer and now we are blue in the face trying to get the title deeds from Bank of Ireland.
This is sooo frustrating as Bank of Ireland have not done anything to help us nor have they admitted the deeds are lost. We are now left in a position were we have a buyer for the house but we can not proceed due to the negligence of Bank of Ireland.

Please let me know if you have had a similar problem.

L1011

Moving to A&P but you will really need to contact a solicitor; recommendations for solicitors are not allowed on boards.

Graham

Mod Note

folks, the forum charter has recently been updated, including clarification about legal advice in A & P:

Legal advice is not permitted on Boards. Here in A&P though there’s a lot of discussion about legalities surrounding property, so the rules are as follows. You can offer suggestions and point to a relevant law or clause by linking to it. You can offer opinion as to whether or not something may or may not be legal, but make it clear it’s your opinion. You may not offer your opinion as expert fact – we can’t verify professional qualifications or real life expertise. When you feel someone is wrong regarding a legal clause, either civilly debunk it on thread with your own supporting links, or report to a moderator as necessary.

Thanks

Sullygirl

I should not have to employ a solicitor in order to deal with the bank, I am a customer!

marklazarcovic

Sullygirl wrote: »

I should not have to employ a solicitor in order to deal with the bank, I am a customer!

You want it sorted or not? You need a solicitor

M.Cribben

Sullygirl wrote: »

I should not have to employ a solicitor in order to deal with the bank, I am a customer!

Get a quote from your solicitor for reconstituting the deeds and tell BoI you'll be invoicing them the amount.



Btw are you sure they are actually lost? There's a recent thread on this forum about the time it takes banks to release deeds. Times seem to range anywhere from 2 to 9 weeks on average.

Sleeper12

Sullygirl wrote:

I should not have to employ a solicitor in order to deal with the bank, I am a customer!

You will need to employ a solicitor for the house sale so why not let him /her engage with the bank? It's all well and good saying that you shouldn't have to but if you have to then you have to.

cruizer101

marklazarcovic wrote: »

You want it sorted or not? You need a solicitor

Whilst I agree a solicitor may be the best route to go it really irks me how often this gets suggested as the solution, there should be no reason why someone has to pay good money to employ someone to get something that is rightfully theirs, its not any sort of unusual situation.

Would you really have any chance of getting the cost back from the bank if you do employ one?

EdgeCase

I wonder could you approach this from a Data Protection legislation point of view. Perhaps ask your solicitor about using new rules under the GDPR. Technically speaking, this is a data loss as they have no idea where the deeds are.

Graham

cruizer101 wrote: »

Whilst I agree a solicitor may be the best route to go it really irks me how often this gets suggested as the solution, there should be no reason why someone has to pay good money to employ someone to get something that is rightfully theirs, its not any sort of unusual situation.

You're right, the OP shouldn't have to employ a solicitor. Unfortunately if a provider has failed in their obligations/responsibilities, 'going legal' is often the fastest/cheapest route to a resolution.

Alternatively, sit, wait and hope.

JamesM

marklazarcovic wrote: »

You want it sorted or not? You need a solicitor

I did not need a solicitor, but maybe I got lucky. Last year, following the death of my mother, I tried to get the deeds of her house from BOI. They could not find them. They found a note that they had released them after my father had died, but my mothers records said that the bank had them. I was very insistent, knowing how meticulous my mother was. Because I was so sure, the assistant manager and a colleague went through the items in storage by hand and found them. It seems that whoever had digitised the records had skipped that page in the old records by mistake. You should have a solicitor anyway for the house sale. I did the probate myself.

Graham

EdgeCase wrote: »

I wonder could you approach this from a Data Protection legislation point of view. Perhaps ask your solicitor about using new rules under the GDPR. Technically speaking, this is a data loss as they have no idea where the deeds are.

I wouldn't be entirely convinced there would be any of the OPs 'personal data' with the original deeds.

jimmycrackcorm

Sullygirl wrote:

We have a buyer and now we are blue in the face trying to get the title deeds from Bank of Ireland. This is so frustrating as Bank of Ireland has not done anything to help us nor have they admitted the deeds are lost.

What answer has the bank given you about getting the deeds? Is it just taking the normal long time to process?

JamesM

It's a year since our deeds were lost, and it's amazing how quickly you forget, but I think that if you have a "Folio Number" for the property, you may not need the deeds. However, many older houses still do not have folio numbers.

Sleeper12

Sullygirl wrote:

Hi, My mum passed away last year, we have gone through probate etc. we were told we could sell her house. Bank of Ireland, held her title deeds even though she had fully paid her mortgage in 2006. We have a receipt from Bank of Ireland acknowledging receipt of the title deed. We have a buyer and now we are blue in the face trying to get the title deeds from Bank of Ireland. This is sooo frustrating as Bank of Ireland have not done anything to help us nor have they admitted the deeds are lost. We are now left in a position were we have a buyer for the house but we can not proceed due to the negligence of Bank of Ireland.

I'm not saying that it's so but Just because you have a receipt from the bank acknowledging receipt of the deed does not mean that they did not return the deed in 2006 or since then.

tedpan

If the mortgage was paid in 2006 the deeds should have been transferred from the bank to your mother's solicitor and then to her back in 2006

Strange story...

JamesM

tedpan wrote: »

If the mortgage was paid in 2006 the deeds should have been transferred from the bank to your mother's solicitor and then to her back in 2006

Strange story...

Not so strange. When my father died nearly 20 years ago, my mother took the deeds from the bank and had them registered in her name. And, even though the bank had no record of it, she gave them back to the bank for safe keeping. Only a physical search in a store room found them.

EdgeCase

Graham wrote: »

I wouldn't be entirely convinced there would be any of the OPs 'personal data' with the original deeds.

If there's a name on the deeds, or stored with the deeds, it's personal data. The GDPR is extremely broad in terms of what could e interpreted as personal data. Any data that can identify a natural person is personal data. It also does not just apply to computer data.

It's far broader and deeper than the old Data Protection Act.

There would be no harm in making the suggestion that the bank should alert its Data Controller though to cause a bit of a focus of attention.

Darkglasses

EdgeCase wrote: »

If there's a name on the deeds, or stored with the deeds, it's personal data. The GDPR is extremely broad in terms of what could e interpreted as personal data. Any data that can identify a natural person is personal data. It also does not just apply to computer data.

It's far broader and deeper than the old Data Protection Act.

There would be no harm in making the suggestion that the bank should alert its Data Controller though to cause a bit of a focus of attention.

The person in question has passed away, and therefore is no longer covered by GDPR.

Darkglasses

Sullygirl wrote: »

Hi,
My mum passed away last year, we have gone through probate etc. we were told we could sell her house. Bank of Ireland, held her title deeds even though she had fully paid her mortgage in 2006. We have a receipt from Bank of Ireland acknowledging receipt of the title deed. We have a buyer and now we are blue in the face trying to get the title deeds from Bank of Ireland.
This is sooo frustrating as Bank of Ireland have not done anything to help us nor have they admitted the deeds are lost. We are now left in a position were we have a buyer for the house but we can not proceed due to the negligence of Bank of Ireland.

Please let me know if you have had a similar problem.

Did your parents Discharge the mortgage charge in 2006 on the folio or since then? If so, the relevant solicitor should have a record of the title deeds coming to them for it and what they did with them. If you are unsure, you can look up the folio on landdirect.ie

EdgeCase

Darkglasses wrote: »

The person in question has passed away, and therefore is no longer covered by GDPR.

Actually, and this is just a technical point, the GDPR is unclear on that. The assumption, although this hasn't been tested in the European courts yet, is that it's something left within the latitude of member states. Denmark for example, enforces data protection law for 10 years after someone's deceased. It's not all that relevant here, as you'd have to go a long way to have it interpreted, but from what I've read, the GDPR as yet is a little vague on this topic.

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The OP should pursue this through a solicitor. If they're not going that route, I would at least suggest that they perhaps make an appointment to speak directly to the branch or regional manager, and not just deal with customer service call centres or counter staff. It's too serious a matter to just let the bank just procrastinate on.

Just bear in mind that the banks have changed their local branch structures quite a lot and it's become increasingly difficult to contact the management. Often requests are being filtered through call centres and messages don't really get passed on the way they used to when you'd a manager on hand in every branch.

the_syco

Sullygirl wrote: »

Bank of Ireland, held her title deeds even though she had fully paid her mortgage in 2006. We have a receipt from Bank of Ireland acknowledging receipt of the title deed.

Have you contacted your mothers solicitor?