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Currently renting and landlord has indicated he will be looking to sell soon...

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  • 13-06-2018 4:27pm
    #1
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭


    Myself and my gf are living there a year in July, we love the house and the area in particular and would entertain the idea of buying it if we could afford it.
    Its a rural location, so basically nothing comparable for sale in the area right now so as to gauge a price.
    He mentioned he had it valued at a certain figure, but when I look at houses for sale in the nearest location, that are in some cases substantially bigger, they are either similar or less than what he claims it was valued at.
    My question is that given I am dubious of his valuation claims, is there any issue with us obtaining a valuation of our own, given we are tenants and dont own it?
    Probably not I'm guessing, but just want to be sure.
    Like everything these days, I'm thinking it will end up being an auction and we will be priced out given this country's farcical and shameful property situation, but I'd love the opportunity to buy it if affordable.


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    #2
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    terrydel wrote: »
    Myself and my gf are living there a year in July, we love the house and the area in particular and would entertain the idea of buying it if we could afford it.
    Its a rural location, so basically nothing comparable for sale in the area right now so as to gauge a price.
    He mentioned he had it valued at a certain figure, but when I look at houses for sale in the nearest location, that are in some cases substantially bigger, they are either similar or less than what he claims it was valued at.
    My question is that given I am dubious of his valuation claims, is there any issue with us obtaining a valuation of our own, given we are tenants and dont own it?
    Probably not I'm guessing, but just want to be sure.
    Like everything these days, I'm thinking it will end up being an auction and we will be priced out given this country's farcical and shameful property situation, but I'd love the opportunity to buy it if affordable.

    You could also wait until he puts it on the open market and then pay the real market price. But you also risk others coming in and driving it up higher that the agreed valuation.

    I would probably get a valuation done myself and if it’s in or around the landlords valuation, you then know he is not trying to take advantage.


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    #3
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Nothing stopping you getting a valuation yourself to get a better idea, should be around 150 quid.
    In a way you should get discount on market price as they should be able to rent to you right up to close, but depends on LL.
    There is also another possibility that they have no interest in selling but just saying it to get you out so can increase rent, that may explain the over valuation


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    #4
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    Did he tell you the valuation because he knows you are interested in buying the house?
    A valuation is meaningless unless someone is willing to buy it for that price. If you feel it is overvalued offer what you think it is worth.


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    #5
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    He'd have mentioned the valuation a couple of times since we moved in, first time I dont think he'd have had an idea we were particularly interested. I think he knows now that we really like it here and would be happy staying. I've told him we'd certainly be interested obviously subject to cost.
    I know he has a set of circumstances were selling would be a good option, I dont think at all that he wants us out to drive up the rent.
    I think he paid over the odds for it at the wrong time and maybe that is playing into it.
    I could be wrong in thinking his figure is exagerated but just wanted to find out if its ok for me to ascertain a valuation myself without his permission.


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    #6
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    Your best bet might be to be honest & say you are interested and given that there is nothing similar in the area to help gauge the price, you would like to get a valuation done on the property.

    Alternatively say nothing & get it done anyway.

    I think the first gives you better leverage if the valuation is lower than the number he has quoted.


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    #7
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    This really is a pie in the sky thread.

    As a matter of interest to those advising the op to get a valuation, what effect do you expect this to have? Do you honestly think a seller will reduce the asking price just because a buyer found an EA that valued it lower than advertised?

    What has a seller got to lose by putting a property on the open market? Absolutely nothing, in fact it is all upside. If a buyer wants to get a property before it is advertised, they have to make an offer the seller can't refuse, that will be above asking, not below.

    The seller isn't trying to take advantage, he is trying to get the highest price achievable and the way to achieve that would be to open the biding to as many buyers as possible.


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    #8
    ross2010
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭ross2010


    davo10 wrote: »
    The seller isn't trying to take advantage, he is trying to get the highest price achievable and the way to achieve that would be to open the biding to as many buyers as possible.

    Exactly. We are accidental landlords. Tenant approached us interested in buying and we obtained a valuation. Tenant was horrified at price. We got 2 more valuations done. Both same outcome. Listing price is bit less than price given to tenant but expected price to achieve on open market same as price quoted to tenant. Very little sells for asking price. They sell 10% or more above asking. If you dont want others bidding against you then you need to pay the market rate.


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    #9
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    davo10 wrote: »
    This really is a pie in the sky thread.

    As a matter of interest to those advising the op to get a valuation, what effect do you expect this to have? Do you honestly think a seller will reduce the asking price just because a buyer found an EA that valued it lower than advertised?

    What has a seller got to lose by putting a property on the open market? Absolutely nothing, in fact it is all upside. If a buyer wants to get a property before it is advertised, they have to make an offer the seller can't refuse, that will be above asking, not below.

    The seller isn't trying to take advantage, he is trying to get the highest price achievable and the way to achieve that would be to open the biding to as many buyers as possible.

    If its pie in the sky dont read or reply to it. Simple.


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    #10
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    terrydel wrote: »
    If its pie in the sky dont read or reply to it. Simple.

    You asked if there is any issue with you getting your own valuation, no there isn't. Is it any use to you? No it isn't, it will not matter a jot to the property owner, you will have wasted your money. The value of a property is what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it, not what it is valued at by an EA. If you want to buy this property before other bidders have a chance to view it, you have to offer more than what the owner valued it at, not less, otherwise why on earth would he not want to put it on the market? Simple.


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    #11
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    davo10 wrote: »
    You asked if there is any issue with you getting your own valuation, no there isn't. Is it any use to you? No it isn't, it will not matter a jot to the property owner, you will have wasted your money. The value of a property is what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it, not what it is valued at by an EA. If you want to buy this property before other bidders have a chance to view it, you have to offer more than what the owner valued it at, not less, otherwise why on earth would he not want to put it on the market? Simple.

    I asked from a legal perspective, so that I can then see if the value he is quoting is correct or accurate. If it is then I know straight away its out of our budget and not worth pursuing, as it will have in all likelihood and in the current market, a number of people willing to meet or exceed that valuation.
    Do you understand now? You are assuming (wrongly) that I don't understand how value actually works.


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    #12
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    terrydel wrote: »
    Do you understand now? You are assuming (wrongly) that I don't understand how value actually works.
    How does it work?


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    #13
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,864 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    davo10 wrote: »
    You asked if there is any issue with you getting your own valuation, no there isn't. Is it any use to you? No it isn't, it will not matter a jot to the property owner, you will have wasted your money. The value of a property is what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it, not what it is valued at by an EA. If you want to buy this property before other bidders have a chance to view it, you have to offer more than what the owner valued it at, not less, otherwise why on earth would he not want to put it on the market? Simple.

    It matters to the buyer. If the ll has said the house is worth 400k but has bumped it 50k as a starting point for negotiations, then it is good to know the value is really 350k so the buyer knows where to start the bidding from.

    Also the actual value impacts the amount they can borrow. If the LL says it's 400k but the bank values it at 350k then they won't approve the mortgage.


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    #14
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    There is nothing to stop you getting an independent valuation. Try to find a company that only does valuations one who's report the bank will accept. In the end it might not be his decision. If the bank are involved they may look to have it put on the open market to get the highest price possible. But if you have a report they may accept it.

    If you really want to buy in. Get it valued, make sure you can raise the money approach the LL and talk to him let him have a copy of the report. You may find an EA is filling his head full of nonsense. Offer him the figure on the valuation report (and I know others won't like this but if the bank are involved offer to pay rent in cash until it closes up to a max of say 10K).


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    #15
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    terrydel wrote: »
    I asked from a legal perspective, so that I can then see if the value he is quoting is correct or accurate. If it is then I know straight away its out of our budget and not worth pursuing, as it will have in all likelihood and in the current market, a number of people willing to meet or exceed that valuation.
    Do you understand now? You are assuming (wrongly) that I don't understand how value actually works.

    The landlord has already said what he wants for the property, so you getting a valuation of less doesn't matter. If you want the property you pay what the landlord is willing to accept not what you are willing to pay.


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    #16
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The landlord has already said what he wants for the property, so you getting a valuation of less doesn't matter. If you want the property you pay what the landlord is willing to accept not what you are willing to pay.

    If the valuation you get is higher than the Landlord wants, you take the hand of him to buy. If the valuation is lower tell him to go jump.


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't see what is pie in the sky about this.
    The OP has spoken to a person about a property that they are interested in but that isn't currently on the open market. The seller has mentioned a price and the OP is unsure of where to go from here.

    OP by all means if you are struggling to value it yourself get a valuation done.
    Have a look at the legal and planning situation too.

    What you do with that valuation is up to you.
    davo10 wrote: »
    As a matter of interest to those advising the op to get a valuation, what effect do you expect this to have?.
    It will inform the OP and they can go from there.
    The seller could be spot on with their valuation, deluded, underpriced. The OP could be in denial, not looking at it from an outsiders point of view or whatever. Getting their own valuation will give a bit more light about it, but I agree that it might not influence the landlord at all, but they aren't valuing it for the benefit of the landlord.


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    #18
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    If the valuation you get is higher than the Landlord wants, you take the hand of him to buy. If the valuation is lower tell him to go jump.

    So the value of a house is determinable before buyers have a chance to bid? Interesting. I always thought that the value of a property is whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay. If you are right, all properties should sell at the valuation price, of course it also could be nonsense.


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    #19
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Grumpypants wrote: »
    It matters to the buyer. If the ll has said the house is worth 400k but has bumped it 50k as a starting point for negotiations, then it is good to know the value is really 350k so the buyer knows where to start the bidding from.

    Also the actual value impacts the amount they can borrow. If the LL says it's 400k but the bank values it at 350k then they won't approve the mortgage.

    How do you know the "value is really €350"?, wouldn't the actual value be whatever the highest bid is?

    The bank may not give a 90% mortgage to one person, but a cash buyer can buy at €500k for example, then the actual value is €500k, not €350k


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    #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    davo10 wrote: »
    So the value of a house is determinable before buyers have a chance to bid? Interesting. I always thought that the value of a property is whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay. If you are right, all properties should sell at the valuation price, of course it also could be nonsense.
    How do you value a property to make a bid:
    Ask the person selling what they want for it?
    Compare similar properties nearby?
    Ask an independent expert their opinion?
    Throw a dart at a board?

    No one knows what it will sell at but what are you suggesting? That they go in blind and use the sellers price as a starting point?
    What if there are no other bidders to establish a market (which is possible if the property is say very rural or unusual in some way)

    The property price register was introduced to introduce a bit of transparency into the market to add to the above options.


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    #21
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    How do you value a property to make a bid:
    Ask the person selling what they want for it?
    Compare similar properties nearby?
    Ask an independent expert their opinion?
    Throw a dart at a board?

    No one knows what it will sell at but what are you suggesting? That they go in blind and use the sellers price as a starting point?
    What if there are no other bidders to establish a market (which is possible if the property is say very rural or unusual in some way)

    The property price register was introduced to introduce a bit of transparency into the market to add to the above options.

    You can decide what you believe it is worth to you, and you alone. But that is not the same as saying the value of a property is actually what you believe it to be or what a valuer believes it to be. The value of a property is whatever the highest bid accepted by the seller is.

    I have found in some cases it takes 6 months from completion before info appears on PPR, according to the Independent the average increase in price is 13% since January 1st, can you understand the implications of this?


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    davo10 wrote: »
    You can decide what you believe it is worth to you, and you alone. But that is not the same as saying the value of a property is actually what you believe it to be or what a valuer believes it to be. The value of a property is whatever the highest bid accepted by the seller is.

    I have found in some cases it takes 6 months from completion before info appears on PPR, according to the Independent the average increase in price is 13% since January 1st, can you understand the implications of this?
    Sure - I fully agree with you. There are any number of things that will influence an individual's view of a property but in this case the OP is stuck and wants some guidance.

    It is far better for them to take some advice and go from there than to try to figure it out for themselves. They can ignore the advice if they don't like it.


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    #23
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The landlord has already said what he wants for the property, so you getting a valuation of less doesn't matter. If you want the property you pay what the landlord is willing to accept not what you are willing to pay.

    No he hasnt said what he wants, he said what he believes its worth based on a valuation a long time ago.
    All I've asked is is it ok for me to get a valuation of my own, on the basis this will give me a reasonable accurate idea if its worth my while and/or possible to pursue buying it.

    For the record, I know that anything is only worth what people are willing to pay. Always amazes me how you get accused of not understanding that by the usual know-alls.

    A valuation is useful to me in making a decision whether to consider buying. Thats it.


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    #24
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How do you value a property to make a bid:
    Ask the person selling what they want for it?
    Compare similar properties nearby?
    Ask an independent expert their opinion?
    Throw a dart at a board?

    No one knows what it will sell at but what are you suggesting? That they go in blind and use the sellers price as a starting point?
    What if there are no other bidders to establish a market (which is possible if the property is say very rural or unusual in some way)

    The property price register was introduced to introduce a bit of transparency into the market to add to the above options.

    He assumes hes the only one who understands how the value of anything is determined.
    Hes made assumptions that I dont understand how the value of something is determined because I've asked is it ok for me to get a property I rent valued.

    Mods please put a nail in this thread.


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    #25
    Stoner
    Registered Users Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    GingerLily wrote:
    How does it work?


    In Ireland Value = a bargain
    In the rest of the western world it means value.

    OP

    If it was me and you think you are right, I'd pick up one of the bigger houses in the same area for the same money if I was you.


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    davo10 wrote: »
    You asked if there is any issue with you getting your own valuation, no there isn't. Is it any use to you? No it isn't, it will not matter a jot to the property owner, you will have wasted your money. The value of a property is what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it, not what it is valued at by an EA. If you want to buy this property before other bidders have a chance to view it, you have to offer more than what the owner valued it at, not less, otherwise why on earth would he not want to put it on the market? Simple.

    I'd disagree. If the valuation you get yourself is in the same ballpark as what the LL's is then you know that you aren't potentially overpaying and would feel comfortable making an offer based on his valuation prior onit being advertised and possibly getting driven up.

    On the other hand if his valuation is in dream land then let it up to be advertised, ignored the price is insane he won't get interest and you may well still be able to get in at a lower price if it's the really price then you can either bid or move on.


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