Tikka t3 lite .223 1:8 twist

Spent

Hi all,
Anyone shooting a Tikka t3 lite .223 with 1:8 1:8 twist
Looking for recommendations on Ammo.
Bought some Fiocchi 50gr hollow points but don't seem to be grouping all that well.
Using the rifle for foxing.

Hunter456

them fiocchi soft points are dirt try some of the ballistic tip stuff.

Spent

Thought that alright
Tanks

Cass

there are a few reasons, imo, why bullets stablise/perform well in a twist rate they probably shouldn't.

1. Bullet design
2. Bullet type
3. Wrong twist rate
4. Amount/type of grooves/lands
5. Propellant
6. Seating Depth

1. Bullet design - Some bullets are made longer than the average bullet in the same "weight" category" from various other manufacturers. The twist rate ratio to bullet weight is actually incorrect. I explained this before that the actual ratio is bullet length to twist rate however as weight is easier to remember and discuss it's used in lieu of the length. So a 55gr V-Max bullet may be longer than say a 55gr HP, or FMJ. The longer bearing surface means more of the bullet engages with the lands and grooves and hence acts more like a heavier bullet. So a 55gr can act the same as say a 69gr depending on the bullet.
2. Bullet Type - The various types of bullet can effect performance. As was noted on other threads the Fiocchi HPs don't run as well as the V-max, the SP (soft point) don't go as well as the FMJ. They have causal effects on the external ballistics of a bullet. So too does the base of the bullet. Flat base can perform worse than Boat Tail in some rifles and in others cause no difference. All this means that a 50gr V-Max BT bullet may perform much better than a 50gr SP Flat Base bullet in the same rifle.
3. Wrong twist rate - Depending on the quality of the rifle/barrel and the process of manufacturing some rifles may not actually be what they say they are. I've seen rifles that were marketed as 1:9 that were actually 1:8.625 and a 1:7 that when measured was 1:7.75. I have also seen a 308 that had three different twist rates. It started as 1:11.25, went to 1:12 then finished as 1:11.5. This is down to poor quality control and will definitely have an effect on how a bullet acts in relation to internal ballistics.
4. Grooves/Lands - The amount of grooves and lands and the type or design of them will effect the internal ballistics. This is also down to the process used in manufacturing. This debate is constantly on going and there is no definitive answer on the actual effects but the theory held by some is that the more lands/grooves the more of the bullet bearing surface makes contact and the slower the bullet travels. Also whether the lands/grooves are standard, 5R, etc. So standard is cut "straight" edged while 5R have a "sloped" side meaning less surface to make contact which improves speeds, etc.
5. Propellant - Various manufacturers use various types of propellant. Look at Superformance. Burns hot, and is on average 10% faster than the equivalent in another brand. Its why people have such different opinions on their quality. Faster is not always better and if you have a certain twist with the "right" weight bullet the hot propellant can cause destablisation regardless because of the speed the bullet exits the barrel at. Its why you might get the 55gr superformance going poorly or not grouping and a 55gr V-max doing 300fps less working excellently. Effectively the same bullet, but the "excessive" speed causes stability issues.
6. Seating Depth - One of the most important aspects of any round, the depth at which the bullet is seated. I have first hand experience of this from reloading for F-Class and can personally say how a change of only four or five thousands of an inch can cause a 2.75 inch group at 1,000 yards to go to 19 inches. Depending on the quality control of the manufacturer and the rifle itself the SAMMI spec they [the manufacturer] use can cause some rounds to perform better than others and in some cases the same round to perform differently from batch to batch.

Everyone will have experienced this at some point, possibly without even knowing it. Have you ever had a mate tell you a certain bullet runs perfectly in their rifle and because your rifle is the same caliber and twist rate you try them only to find them average to poor. That difference in performance is caused by one of the above (if we exclude shooter error).

Just as an extra explanation on bullet weight and choice. Weight of a bullet is misleading. We all talk about twist rate and suitable weight of bullet, when if fact it's bearing surface length of the bullet that is key. Every calibre is fixed. Meaning a 40 gr bullet and 75 gr bullet in 223 have the same diameter. To make it heavier they make it longer. This is when twist rate comes into play. The longer a bullet the more bearing surface that engages the lands and grooves.




However if i were to talk to someone about suitable bullet for twist rate in terms of bearing surface i'd be talking in thousandths of an inch. For example (and excuse the numbers they are completely made up because i don't have the actual numbers) a 40 gr would not be a 40 gr but a 0.4721 bullet compared to the 0.5512 bullet (75 gr).

It's easier to talk in weights.


The reason i say weight is not ideal is because sometimes this weight to bearing surface is not always as predictable as you'd think. I'll discuss this in 308 as i know them. My rifle is 1:10 twist. It's suitable for bullets of 168 - 185 gr. They have longer bearing surfaces than 123 - 155 gr bullets so work better in the faster twist rate.

However the Lapua Scenar 155 gr is a long bullet. So long in fact that it's bearing surface length is the same as the 175 gr Sierra, and close to the 180 gr bullet. Because of this the bearing surface is longer, and the "lighter" bullet acts more like a "heavy" bullet. This means that although it's a 155 gr bullet it works, quite well, in a 1:10 twist.

It's for this reason that some rifles will shoot heavy or light bullets that seem to contradict the twist rate:bullet weight ratio.

yubabill

The T3 is a strange fish wrt twist rate and ammo - I didn't believe it would stabilise lighter bullets well for a long time, but lads were reporting excellent accuracy results with Hornady BT 40gr.

A few years ago I tried Remy 45gr JHPs that I got from a friend and got one raggedy hole at 50yds - very impressed.

I have a T3 heavy barrel varmint 1:8 and get about 1" groups at 100yds with Fiocchi 50gr HP's, but Hornady 55gr Steel Match FMJ are probably half that - I've only shot one or two groups with them and decided to save them because they're so good and so patchy to get.

Remy 55gr FMJ's gave me around 0.75" @ 100yds, but Remy have become expensive.

Other ammo that I've found good are the Federal 64gr PSP's which give me about 1" @ 100yds and Hornady 55gr BT's very slightly better.

The Hornady 75gr HP's hit hardest of all, but they are at the limit of acceptable accuracy from my rifle, maybe 1.5" @ 100yds.

69gr MatchKings are excellent from my rig, but I've only ever bought one box as they're around 2.00 per bang now.

I have never tried American Eagle FMJ, but I heard good reports about them.

edit: FMJ's are no good for foxes, just saying in case you think I'm using them for that - I use them for rabbits alright and never lost one in nearly 15 years. From what lads are putting on here, 40gr BT from Fiocchi or Hornady look like a good choice, but if you get a lot of scrub or weeds between you and the target and don't shoot much beyond 200yds/metres then the 64gr Federal is the job (it will push through weeds without deflecting too much but it drops more than the 40gr and you will have to judge holdover at long range - I prefer to point and shoot - so just saying).

Just a summary of my experiences FWIW.