How your farm animals are raised

Might seem very bleak to most so no harm putting up the odd ‘this is how they should look/behave’ happier type video.

https://youtu.be/BlGoNXpS2xs

ganmo

Deleted User wrote: »

Might seem very bleak to most so no harm putting up the odd ‘this is how they should look/behave’ happier type video.

https://youtu.be/BlGoNXpS2xs

avoiding my welfare question again

Dakota Dan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m not pushing anything.

Just talking with like minded people who agree we are living in a world where eating meat is a choice.

Choosing not to eat meat gives great peace of mind. It’s amazing how great it feels not to be involved in all that pain and suffering.

Why kind of madman would judge a wild animal for eating another wild animal ? Is that your aspiration ? Sure a level of rape looks to be common in the wild. Are you comparing yourself to wild animals in this regard too ? Is a bit of rape ok ? Is killing the young of a rival ok ? Why foolishly compare yourself to animals that need to kill to survive when we don’t.

Bizarre really.

And that’s the point here. Ultimately what we eat is a choice. The more people realise the impact on innocent animals for their food choice the less it seems they want to partake.

Again, it’s jaw dropping the amount of people who categorically won’t watch any video to do with the production of meat or dairy. Choosing ignorance is the only way some can continue to consume either.

You need to visit a farm and stop relying on cherry picked videos to draw your conclusions.

Again.

It’s the concept as much as anything.

Animals are not there to service my pleasures.

You guys don’t seem suited to this forum to be honest.

It’s like you’re walking in to some organisation everyday and telling them you don’t believe in what they do and you won’t join up.

It seems weird and wasteful of valuable energy on your part.

Unless of course you’re interested in veganism in which case give it a bash for a few months and see how it goes.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m not pushing anything.Just talking with like minded people who agree we are living in a world where eating meat is a choice. Choosing not to eat meat gives great peace of mind. It’s amazing how great it feels not to be involved in all that pain and suffering.
Why kind of madman would judge a wild animal for eating another wild animal ? Is that your aspiration ? Sure a level of rape looks to be common in the wild. Are you comparing yourself to wild animals in this regard too ? Is a bit of rape ok ? Is killing the young of a rival ok ? Why foolishly compare yourself to animals that need to kill to survive when we don’t.
Bizarre really. And that’s the point here. Ultimately what we eat is a choice. The more people realise the impact on innocent animals for their food choice the less it seems they want to partake. Again, it’s jaw dropping the amount of people who categorically won’t watch any video to do with the production of meat or dairy. Choosing ignorance is the only way some can continue to consume either.

Yeah pushing an agenda for sure however benighted it is ...

If you dont want to eat any particular type of foodstuff - hey that's absolutly fine. Good luck with it. Just stop pushing it.

Anyway back to your question ...

klopparama wrote:

What kind of madman would judge a wild animal for eating another wild animal?

Well the 'madmen' are actually some extreme Vegans ...

The anti "Wild Animal Suffering" vegan movement is quite mainstream with Facebook pages and eager adherents who believe the day will come when all the gazelles will romp around and either lions will be killed off or genetically altered into herbivores 

The majority of the planet's 50,000 or so vertebrate species are vegetarian. But among the minority of carnivorous species are some of the best known creatures on the planet. Should these serial killers be permitted to prey on other sentient beings indefinitely?

it's crucial that at some point the animal-rights movement moves beyond farm, laboratory, and companion animals. The scale of brutality in nature is too vast to ignore, and humans have an obligation to exercise their cosmically rare position as both intelligent and empathetic creatures to reduce suffering in the wild as much as they can.

See:

https://www.hedweb.com/abolitionist-project/reprogramming-predators.html

https://foundational-research.org/the-importance-of-wild-animal-suffering/

You're correct - it is bizarre - deranged even to ignore that humans and other meat eaters are also animals which exist on a planet with inalienable laws of ecology. Entrophy being an essential part of those laws.

Oh and look that old hoary vegan chestnut 'rape' Whose raping anyone btw? Animals do not 'rape' - they cannot be convicted of 'rape'. They do not go to prison for 'rape'. It's a rubbish analogy.

And now we come to the crux of the matter. Some extreme vegans will use any means including the use of sensationalism and false analogies to push a vegan ideology.

And the problem with that ideology is that it suckers people into thinking it's all about the animals - when for example the vegans in those vidoes publicaly state they do not support animal welfare and yet use those videos to promote their beliefs and ideology. A bit ironic isn't it?

And at the end of it all this is the vision of a dystopian world where the laws of ecology are upended and where all predators wild and otherwise are eradicated. All because some extreme vegans dont agree that the eating of meat is absolutely normal.

Thanks but no thanks ...

Nekarsulm

Deleted User wrote: »

Animals are not there to service my pleasures.

.

Especially insects, which are poisoned in their billions so that vegans and vegetarian can buy cheaper food...

But you still haven't enlightened us about your claim that Irish farmers torture their animals.
Is it just a bit of hyperbole to spice up your post, or can you show us some evidence to back up your claim?
(Back in your post #81)

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s not complicated. If people get to see the pain and suffering caused by paying for animals to be raised and slaughtered for their pleasure they may stop and think about it.
I know lots and lots of people that flat out refuse to watch anything on animals raised for food. That tells me a lot. Ignorance is bliss and some don’t want to face the hard truth of the suffering they pay others to carry out for them.
....

So your agenda is to copy and paste every youtube video you can get your hands on (regardless of how representative or even how accurate such videos are are) and 'make' people watch them in order to promote 'your' belief that eating meat is somehow wrong?

I'm damn sure the majority of people are well able to make their own decisions in life without watching youtube videos created and promoted online by extremists .

And why do you post that type of videos here? As you said previously this is the vegan & vegetarian forum- surely posters here don't 'need' to be convinced to not eat meat?

Your videos don’t seem suited to this forum to be honest

You guys could be carrying some guilt for your choices. Not sure and a psychologist would be better placed to opine.

You guys seem to be all over some of those social media sites so you definitely seem to put in the hours. Fair play. Not something I’ve ever done.

Cruelty free choices feel good. I think more people are feeling that way too.

No one trying to convince you guys to become vegan. You seem to be all over your choices. Fair play.

Like I said. It seems very obsessive and unhealthy to go around and tell every organisation you don’t believe in what they believe in and you won’t be joining.

If you didn’t like drinking alcohol would you be going into pubs and telling them ‘don’t pull me a pint, no sir, I don’t agree with any of this’

Nobody is asking you to to try veganism.

Be happy with your choices. I’m happy you are free to make those choices.

Live and let live a little and trust me when I say nobody is trying to get you to change your lifestyle. That comes from within. It’s not for everyone.

ganmo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You guys don’t seem suited to this forum to be honest.

Why do you think this discussion is best suited to this forum?

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You guys could be carrying some guilt for your choices. Not sure and a psychologist would be better placed to opine
...

No one trying to convince you guys to become vegan. You seem to be all over your choices. Fair play... Be happy with your choices. I’m happy you are free to make those choices.

Lol. Your first and last sentiments do not remotely agree with each other. Verbage at cross purposes there I reckon. I think it might be best to reappraise your attempts at logic tbh ...

It’s just hard to understand the efforts you put in to all these vegan websites and social media’s or whatever they are.

Do you believe in god ? If not do you spend lots of your precious time trying to convince people they are wrong ?

I don’t eat animals or dairy. Get over it.

ganmo

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s just hard to understand the efforts you put in to all these vegan websites and social media’s or whatever they are.

Do you believe in god ? If not do you spend lots of your precious time trying to convince people they are wrong ?

I don’t eat animals or dairy. Get over it.

I'm only active here

no. what has that got to do with anything?

that's not what our issue is, you are free to put anything you want into your body

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s just hard to understand the efforts you put in to all these vegan websites and social media’s or whatever they are.
Do you believe in god ? If not do you spend lots of your precious time trying to convince people they are wrong ?
I don’t eat animals or dairy. Get over it.

Lots of Whataboutery there ...

Erhm Klopp - hate to point it out - but you appear to be the one routinely scouring the vegan websites / social media etc for anti farming videos to post on here

Its interesting that you appear to be aligning your beliefs with deisim. Frankly I don't see many evangelists promoting god on boards tbh - Just seems to be you pushing an ideology - Strange that ...

However if you opine rubbish you can expect scrutiny

Btw you've already stated frequently that you dont eat animals or dairy now. That's fine. Best of luck with that...

Ha. Barely being able to use YouTube doesn’t quite equate to some of the sites you frequently visit and quote.

I bow to your online abilities over mine.

Carnist hanging out in a vegan forum is just weird. Would be kinda like a straight person hanging out in the LGBT forum all the time. I think he doth protest too much eh.

Wonder would I ever get as much oxygen on the farming forum as you guys get in here.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ha. Barely being able to use YouTube doesn’t quite equate to some of the sites you frequently visit and quote. I bow to your online abilities over mine.

Carnist hanging out in a vegan forum is just weird. Would be kinda like a straight person hanging out in the LGBT forum all the time. I think he doth protest too much eh.

Wonder would I ever get as much oxygen on the farming forum as you guys get in here.

Considering the pure volume of anti farming videos you've posted - your modesty doesn't really cut it - now does it?

And as I said if you post rubbish etc as for example your question as to 'what madmen' would judge wild carnivores eating meat (the answer btw was - extreme vegans surprise surprise!) - then expect some intelligent answers from posters who actually look at more than their own navels.

A self declared vegan posting secondhand anti farming videos in the vegan & vegetarian forum in order to promote an ideology to non meat eaters is just plain weird to start with.

Just in case you don't realise it - when you post - your posts appear on the main Boards.ie index. And everyone can see them!

Post rubbish like that which you've posted and expect to recieve scrutiny for sure.

Wow. You see it as anti farming eh.

I only see the animal cruelty but you won’t accept that as a farmer/ex farmer.

There’s nothing I can do for you with that.

I’ll be very clear for you - my concern is for animals. Not for how you feel about farmers.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wow. You see it as anti farming eh.
I only see the animal cruelty but you won’t accept that as a farmer/ex farmer.
There’s nothing I can do for you with that.
I’ll be very clear for you - my concern is for animals. Not for how you feel about farmers.

Well actually not just me - I think you will find that at least 45 other posters tend to agree with the opinion that your posts here are anti farming Klopp

See:

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057882447/1/#post107273907

Unfortunately you appear to only believe what you want to believe and ultimately fail at critical thinking in your comments imo.

So unlike your friends in those videos - can we presume that you support animal welfare then - yes?

ganmo

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ll be very clear for you - my concern is for animals. Not for how you feel about farmers.

then why avoid answering my questions about animal welfare?

There’s a good chance you are struggling to seperate vegans and extreme activists (if that’s the correct term).

You have previously come across as very obsessed with that Joey Carbstrong guy so maybe you think all vegans are the same as him. Don’t think I knew about him until you repeatedly mentioned him and I couldn’t pick him out of a lineup of two people with confidence.

That would be very shortsighted of you. Not all people are represented by a few in any group. How many examples of that do we see often in the media.

I think we agree that people have choice and I don’t think it’s been particularly fair that you’ve accused me of pushing anything (veganism) on anyone. All one can do is provide an opportunity for people to reflect on their choices in the hope they fully understand the impact of those choices.


I think it’s only fair to others for me to put you on ignore list now as I’m sure this is extremely tedious for most. So don’t be offended if I don’t reply.

You are more than welcome to pm me for further discussion if you like.

ganmo

Deleted User wrote: »

There’s a good chance you are struggling to seperate vegans and extreme activists (if that’s the correct term).

You have previously come across as very obsessed with that Joey Carbstrong guy so maybe you think all vegans are the same as him. Don’t think I knew about him until you repeatedly mentioned him and I couldn’t pick him out of a lineup of two people with confidence.

That would be very shortsighted of you. Not all people are represented by a few in any group. How many examples of that do we see often in the media.

I think we agree that people have choice and I don’t think it’s been particularly fair that you’ve accused me of pushing anything (veganism) on anyone. All one can do is provide an opportunity for people to reflect on their choices in the hope they fully understand the impact of those choices.


I think it’s only fair to others for me to put you on ignore list now as I’m sure this is extremely tedious for most. So don’t be offended if I don’t reply.

You are more than welcome to pm me for further discussion if you like.

vegan extremists used to be called animal right activists, I think they started calling themselves vegan extremists to align with the vegan health movement.


your posts would lead me to placing you as an animal rights activist.

This seems like a good overall viewing for those that may be unfamiliar with common occurrences for different animals -

Might be hard to watch for some but if you’re ok to eat it then hopefully you’re ok to watch it.

https://youtu.be/jhBWDzkqEPY

Eathrin

Are people under the impression that most vegans are "extremists"? You would be sorely disappointed to find the majority are regular folk, trying to make more ethical consumer decisions on both an animal welfare and environmental level, with a dashing of those who make the change for health.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There’s a good chance you are struggling to seperate vegans and extreme activists (if that’s the correct term).

No I don't believe I am. If you start posting material and opinions from such sites - then by association it all becomes relevant.

Btw you yourself (despite claims of much modesty and not knowing how d'internet works lol) have previously brought up your man Joeee Carbsring. Personally I think he is hilarious. Why You brining him up now? Nobody mentioned him ...

Btw you have a habit of not discussing the points at hand. Do you or do not support animal welfare?

Regarding the videos you've posted which are neither verified nor apparently representative of general farming - you say...

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All one can do is provide an opportunity for people to reflect on their choices in the hope they fully understand the impact of those choices.

Ok time out there my friend. On one hand you claim to be posting only for the benefit of those on the v&v forum only and now you claim that you are 'providing "an opportunity for people to reflect on their choices eating meat etc etc "????

And yet at the same time you're not pushing an agenda?

....

gozunda

Eathrin wrote: »

Are people under the impression that most vegans are "extremists"? You would be sorely disappointed to find the majority are regular folk, trying to make more ethical consumer decisions on both an animal welfare and environmental level, with a dashing of those who make the change for health.

No - the extremists are in the minority imo but unfortunately are the most vocal.

ganmo

Eathrin wrote: »

Are people under the impression that most vegans are "extremists"? You would be sorely disappointed to find the majority are regular folk, trying to make more ethical consumer decisions on both an animal welfare and environmental level, with a dashing of those who make the change for health.

I can only speak for myself and as I posted above what are being called vegan activists were once called animal rights activists. They seem to have distanced themselves from that term to hide within the overall vegan movement.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This seems like a good overall viewing for those that may be unfamiliar with common occurrences for different animals -
Might be hard to watch for some but if you’re ok to eat it then hopefully you’re ok to watch it.

https://youtu.be/jhBWDzkqEPY

More American videos Klopp? Don't think many people buy meat from the butcher or supermarket here from the US. So again not really relevant is it?

Do you buy American food? If you are happy drinking your almond juice - you might want to do some research regarding the ecological damage almond cultivation in the US entails. Might be hard to do but if you're ok to drink it then hopefully you're ok to know what buying such products does to the environment and indiginous animals....

Dakota Dan

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s just hard to understand the efforts you put in to all these vegan websites and social media’s or whatever they are.

Do you believe in god ? If not do you spend lots of your precious time trying to convince people they are wrong ?

I don’t eat animals or dairy. Get over it.

It's you're the one that needs to get over what other people eat FFS.

‘Your farm animals’ aren’t just raised and slaughtered in Ireland.

Ireland import a lot of meat.

Also, and much more importantly, ‘your farm animals’ is aimed at all humans. I don’t think boards is only available to people in Ireland.

Lots of Irish people living in America and Australia and all over the world.

No need to be precious or pedantic about ‘your farm animals’ in the title. It’s a very tiny and unfortunate straw some have clung to in order to derail this thread. ‘Your’ means human not ‘you John from Cavan’.

The purpose of the videos is to educate people as to what really happens. These videos are not staged. They are not a film set. The atrocious conditions and ‘life’ of the animal are what we see in the videos.

Some people are only concerned with their own back yard. Others take a broader view.

Any analogy I use would be swarmed upon by the carnists and anti vegans. It’s already happened within this thread.

But let me say that when I see something that is wrong happening in a different country it allows me to reflect and understand that it is wrong in every country.

It’s not hard for me to concern myself with the wrongs in the world rather than only being concerned with the wrongs in my own back yard.
Empathy is a natural emotion.

So it doesn’t really matter where these animals get to experience that ‘life’ but it matters that we can choose not to partake in it.

ganmo

If boards was targeting a worldwide audience they wouldn’t be using the .ie domain, or at the least they’d have a redirect from boards.com which they don’t.
No the videos aren’t staged but they are edited by ppl with an agenda. They do show some welfare concerns but you don’t seem to want to enter into a discussion about animal welfare.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

‘...

The purpose of the videos is to educate people as to what really happens. These videos are not staged. They are not a film set. The atrocious conditions and ‘life’ of the animal are what we see in the videos.

....
.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m not pushing anything

Just talking with like minded people ...

You see this is where I get to call bs. On one hand you claim to be posing only for the benefit of the 'like minded' people on this forum and that you are not prosletysing whatsoever.

Now you claim you are 'educating' people (sic).
These videos you have pulled out of the ether of youtube to 'educate' people are clearly neither representative of farming here and in many other places, cannot be verified having been filmed and edited to sensationalise the content.

And all this done supposedly in the guise of promoting an extreme animal rights agenda that seeks to eradicate all farmed and domestic animals and ultimately wipe out all carnivorous species of animals!

Ironically the videos you are posting (those allegedly showing poor animal welfare conditions) - do not support any improvements to animal welfare standards.

If you were advocating your experiences of veganism - as many do then fair enough. But the constant rubbish repetition of the same ol' mass produced malarkey is tiresome at best.

No one is fooled ...