How not to cycle past a horse

Arcade_Tryer

Glass fused light wrote: »

The space is not the issue in a pack situation. After the nut job went up the left of the animal all the people to the right were in the most danger.
If the rider has not managed to keep the animals head pulled to the side the it would have likely bolted forward and to the right taking out anything which got in the way ie the pack.

Fair enough. But it's unfair to expect the cyclists on the right to know that, or to anticipate the actions of the idiots who undertook the horse.

Ave Sodalis

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Fair enough. But it's unfair to expect the cyclists on the right to know that, or to anticipate the actions of the idiots who undertook the horse.

Ignorance does not make a situation safe, nor does it mean any of them acted correctly around the horse.

Mongfinder General

The horse rider should be allowed carry a sword like in the old days. That way the rider can defend herself and the horse by twatting any loons that come in contact

Arcade_Tryer

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Many did? Did they? The only ones that even tried to go to the other side of the road were the ones trying to cycle past a spooked horse. All of them were way too fast.

Anyone who knows about horses and large animals will tell you the same. Why won't you understand that? Why do you think you know better about how to act around horses than those who have been learning to act around horses for decades?

Five or six cyclists at the end of the video went by fine. Not saying I know better than you or others who hang around large animals. I'm saying I know better than you when you say that all of the cyclists in the video behaved dangerously. They simply didn't. And it's unfair to say they all did.

Ave Sodalis

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Five or six cyclists at the end of the video went by fine. Not saying I know better than you or others who hang around large animals. I'm saying I know better than you when you say that all of the cyclists in the video behaved dangerously. They simply didn't. And it's unfair to say they all did.

You mean the ones that cycled past the back of a spooked and wound up horse?

Arcade_Tryer

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Ignorance does not make a situation safe, nor does it mean any of them acted correctly around the horse.

Yeah, fair enough. Of course, your definition of correctly is going to differ from that of others, drastically probably. There are degrees of safety and danger however, and every overtaking manoeuvre on the road everyday has a certain degree of each. Calling all of the cyclists in the video dangerous is akin to calling every overtake on the road everyday dangerous, because it is not textbook perfect.

Arcade_Tryer

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

You mean the ones that cycled past the back of a spooked and wound up horse?

No. The ones that cycled past on the right hand side of the road in the same split second that the collision occurred, in the other lane, at a reasonable pace. This is becoming tiresome.

Ave Sodalis

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

No. The ones that cycled past on the right hand side of the road in the same split second that the collision occurred, in the other lane, at a reasonable pace. This is becoming tiresome.

Oh you mean the ones that thought that cycling in a group towards the back of a horse was a good idea?

Jeff2

Here's a thing ban racing on open roads.
Why is this even possible.

Arcade_Tryer

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Oh you mean the ones that thought that cycling in a group towards the back of a horse was a good idea?

No need to take that tone. Was genuinely trying to have an honest, constructive discussion. Obviously we disagree, strongly. Best to leave it at that. Of course you and one or two others here appear to know more about the potential dangers concerning horses, and how horses and large animals can react, which I acknowledge, and have always done so. But I still believe some of the cyclists in that video behaved relatively safely given the situation, and it's unfair to lump them all together as dangerous and irresponsible. But again, there is probably a lot of room for improvement as always.

eeeee

Jeff2 wrote: »

Here's a thing ban racing on open roads.
Why is this even possible.

Racing happens week in week out on public roads perfectly safely. Each race has a lead car that rides in front of the bunch to warn oncoming traffic, and there is a broomwagon following to warn traffic behind the race the race is on (and scoop up fcuked riders and bikes if needs be).
It's not 100% perfect, but I've never had or seen an incident in any race I've been a part of, apart from the car 150m from the finish line mentioned in another post, but no one crashed into it, and it didn't crash into anyone. That was more of a marshalling fail than anything else.
I've been in bunches that have been passes safely by traffic on the road, and had traffic in oncoming lanes pass our bunch safely.

All that said, I am racing in women's bunches that are smaller than the mens so YMMV.

Glass fused light

nee wrote: »

Horses will always try to avoid a human on the ground, and I have never come across one that deliberately wanted to stamp a human (although some marginal incidents here, sometimes I'd swear they know exactly their hoof is going onto your toes when you're asking them to do something they don't want to do/go somewhere they don't want to go. I have had the broken bones! :pac: ). See what happens when jockey's fall off in a race and what oncoming horses do (plenty get trampled, but the horses will always try to avoid them if they can at all). Cavalry's they are driven into it, and trained for it, but it wouldn't be natural behaviour.

The problem that i see is that horse is not running with the herd per a race, (and some of the fallen jockeys avoidance is to avoid a trip hazard). But if it was surounded by a danger which it needs to break out of the natrual instinct is to charge and even stomp. Not its first cholce but still a risk to consider if you are dumb enough to 'attack' in a pack formation.

Cavalry's always make me sad. I imagine they were also absolutely terrifying.

Horses are used in policing units for crowd control and community policing, for visibility mainly, both that of the rider and crowds of the horse.

I cant imagine being a infantry and facing a full charge. But they are still trained with the riot in mind and prove effective in moving troublemakers on in crowd control. its hard to argue with a animal who outweighs you and has decided that you are in its spot

Ps Imo The hoof thing is telling you your in its spot

eeeee

Glass fused light wrote: »

The problem that i see is that horse is not running with the herd per a race, (and some of the fallen jockeys avoidance is to avoid a trip hazard). But if it was surounded by a danger which it needs to break out of the natrual instinct is to charge and even stomp. Not its first cholce but still a risk to consider if you are dumb enough to 'attack' in a pack formation.

True.

Glass fused light wrote: »

I cant imagine being a infantry and facing a full charge. But they are still trained with the riot in mind and prove effective in moving troublemakers on in crowd control. its hard to argue with a animal who outweighs you and has decided that you are in its spot

Ps Imo The hoof thing is telling you your in its spot

Ha ha ha ha so many times...!
I had metatarsal's broken behind my steel toe caps once. She was a very smart and talented filly. She actually ended up representing Ireland, my most successful homebred. And all with deathly accurate hoof placement :pac:

CramCycle

No one in that video completed a safe overtake. Fair enough I spent a lot of my youth in the country so it was drilled into me about how to overtake horses in case they bolted.

I realise some may not have much experience around horses but none of those overtakes were good or safe.

You slow down while approaching the animal, and after enough time for the animal and rider to be duly aware of your presence, you overtake with as wide as berth as possible, slowly and without sudden acceleration.

I heard someone saying about asking being stupid. Often this does not need an actual conversation. You slow down, leave space and drift right until it's clear the rider knows your there. Simples.

Ave Sodalis

Arcade_Tryer wrote:

No need to take that tone. Was genuinely trying to have an honest, constructive discussion. Obviously we disagree, strongly. Best to leave it at that. Of course you and one or two others here appear to know more about the potential dangers concerning horses, and how horses and large animals can react, which I acknowledge, and have always done so. But I still believe some of the cyclists in that video behaved relatively safely given the situation, and it's unfair to lump them all together as dangerous and irresponsible. But again, there is probably a lot of room for improvement as always.

Okay, the tone was unnecessary but can you explain how any of that was considered safe? The tone was because people like you will be the reason I'm calling an ambulance, calling a vet, or will be lying in a ditch somewhere. I'm also really struggling to see the logic behind acknowledging that there are people here that know horses well... and still disagree about how safe those cyclists were.

tigerboon

Mongfinder General wrote: »

The horse rider should be allowed carry a sword like in the old days. That way the rider do the world a favour by twatting any loons that come in contact

FYP

what were any of ye doing on the main road tbf

Greybottle

I'll say the following as a cyclist and someone well used to moving animals on the road from being about 6 years of age (cattle, sheep, donkey and cart and horses).

The riders are dickheads who overtook on the left. No excuses. I hope they are prosecuted for leaving the scene of an accident at the very least. They should be banned from triathlons and cycling sportives for a year as an exemplary punishment, but I understand this might well be impossible to do.

Plenty of others could have given more space on the right, there's no oncoming traffic and the road is wide enough. Education is badly needed here.

The horse rider needs to learn to calm down and expect the unexpected when on an animal, I've had horses spooked by a fox running across a road and a badger. Not a nice place to be, but shlt happens. Screaming in a high pitched voice unsettles the horse, you need to speak to it with authority to settle it down. bad reaction on her part.

The horse is road trained, this is something that takes time over a few years, but it wasn't nervous with the bikes whizzing past. If it is nervous with cyclists then it would lose it entirely if a scooter or motorbike came past. It didn't, it reacted (understandably) when it got hit by the cyclist. An untrained horse should be let nowhere near a road, thankfully this wasn't the case.

It's also a bit much to expect every road user, cyclist or motorist to slow down to an almost complete stop on a road like that, it simply is not going to happen, but like I said the horse is well used to the road. On a smaller road, you take more care.

cython

Deleted User wrote: »

what were any of ye doing on the main road tbf

1. Is it really a main road? Looks about the same as some of the back roads around Dublin 15/Phoenix Park to me, and they're not main roads, at least not by design.
2. I don't think anyone posting on this thread was actually there.....
3. Given the above, what are you actually talking about?

CramCycle

Deleted User wrote: »

what were any of ye doing on the main road tbf

MOD VOICE: Lets nip this in the bud really quick, for everyone. First, it is not ye, not all cyclists are related, stop generalising. Second, cyclists are allowed on roads. If you have a discussion to be started about should races be allowed on open roads, start a seperate thread about it. This was not a Irish cycle race, if it was, the comms would have banned a large bumber of those riders.

Fighting Tao

The only video is what looks like a helmet cam on the horse rider. It doesn’t show the lead up. Is it possible that this was just after a bend and so unexpected? Yes I know that everyone should expect the unexpected and it’s no excuse but it might explain how a bunch of riders didn’t adjust themselves in time.

Wishbone Ash

Last year a woman on horseback said that my Lycra was frightening her horse. The horse didn't seem agitated and was simply standing at the edge of the roadway. We met on a very steep incline and I was going very slowly and quietly on probably an 18-20% gradient (near the bottom of the first part of 'The Wall').

I'm not sure what she expected me to do.

Glass fused light

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Last year a woman on horseback said that my Lycra was frightening her horse. The horse didn't seem agitated and was simply standing at the edge of the roadway. We met on a very steep incline and I was going very slowly and quietly on probably an 18-20% gradient (near the bottom of the first part of 'The Wall').

I'm not sure what she expected me to do.

Well removing the Lycra may have been an option? :P

DaveyDave

The lads who passed in the same lane without moving over the broken line are absolute gob****es. Shocking how some of you think those passes are ok. You wouldn't want a car to be in the lane if you were in the middle of it like the horse rider, don't act like it's ok for the cyclists to do so.

eeeee

DaveyDave wrote: »

The lads who passed in the same lane without moving over the broken line are absolute gob****es. Shocking how some of you think those passes are ok. You wouldn't want a car to be partially over the line if you were taking the lane like the horse rider, don't act like it's suddenly ok for the cyclists to do so.

Again, it's just one poster who thinks some of the passes are alright. Cyclists are not one conglomerate group, and one does not speak for all. If you read the thread you'll actually find all bar one think the passes were dangerous.

eeeee

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Last year a woman on horseback said that my Lycra was frightening her horse. The horse didn't seem agitated and was simply standing at the edge of the roadway. We met on a very steep incline and I was going very slowly and quietly on probably an 18-20% gradient (near the bottom of the first part of 'The Wall').

I'm not sure what she expected me to do.

There are flutes in/ on every form of transport:D

07Lapierre

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

No. The ones that cycled past on the right hand side of the road in the same split second that the collision occurred, in the other lane, at a reasonable pace. This is becoming tiresome.

when passing a Horse, anything above walking pace is not reasonable.

Rechuchote

nee wrote: »

Horses are used in policing units for crowd control and community policing, for visibility mainly, both that of the rider and crowds of the horse.

Highly-trained horses, though!

I don't have much experience with horses - a bit as a child - but I know that every horse ever born is convinced that there are ghosts, and will shy, jib and dance at invisible things as well as visible dangers like savage, deadly plastic bags and newspapers. Exposing the poor creature to this kind of whizzing is insane.

For entertainment: police horse training back in the 1960s:

and in Ireland, a more manpower-saving method:

Glass fused light

Greybottle wrote: »

The horse rider needs to learn to calm down and expect the unexpected when on an animal, I've had horses spooked by a fox running across a road and a badger. Not a nice place to be, but shlt happens. Screaming in a high pitched voice unsettles the horse, you need to speak to it with authority to settle it down. bad reaction on her part.

The horse is road trained, this is something that takes time over a few years, but it wasn't nervous with the bikes whizzing past. If it is nervous with cyclists then it would lose it entirely if a scooter or motorbike came past. It didn't, it reacted (understandably) when it got hit by the cyclist. An untrained horse should be let nowhere near a road, thankfully this wasn't the case.

I think that the rider got as much of a fright as the horse. she was confident that the horse was well trained and happy to deal with the close early passes. These were not upsetting the horse and as its ears demonstrate it was happy enough to listen out. She imo made a mistake in not looking backwards once a couple of the bikes went by to check what was comming up behind her. But even if she had I don't think anyone could have perdicted that the 2 would totally ignore common sense and their legal obligation to pass on the right.

Greybottle wrote: »

It's also a bit much to expect every road user, cyclist or motorist to slow down to an almost complete stop on a road like that, it simply is not going to happen, but like I said the horse is well used to the road. On a smaller road, you take more care.

It's not a bit much to expect any road user to slow down on a road like that. It's each road-users obligation to not put other road users at risk by their actions. The fact that is may not happen is more a reflection on the self-centred nature of humans how think that the rules don't apply except when they are needed for their own protection.

Melodeon

Glass fused light wrote: »

I cant imagine being a infantry and facing a full charge.

This is about as close as we're likely to see in this day and age.
It's 'only' 4 horses, they're harnessed together, and there are no riders armed with sabre or lance with bad intentions in their hearts, but it's still a pretty terrifying thing to have coming at you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zplcjafDYc