"free" preschool year

happywithlife

shesty wrote: »

Well I do get that because that's essentially what our place does, but if that's the case, the OP's place seems to be quite pricey.

But at €26 for a session (4 hours) that's only €4.50 per hour. Not pricey. It only seems that way because she's only using a fraction of the session

misc2013

happywithlife wrote: »

I think they operate same as mine and it's not that difficult really to my understanding (IF I'm right in the following)

2*4 in your post means they divide their day into 2 blocks of 4 hours
You get charged for a block of 4 hours
3 of those hours are ECCE
Assuming you choose to place child for an.additional hour (previously asked but not clarified)
You pay the sessions rate even though your child is only using 1 hour of it. Assuming your creche has a "or part there of" wording I their fee policy I don't see the problem. You are using part of their session and hence charged for that session.
If you choose to collect your child after the 3 hours of ECCE you wouldn't have to pay anything.
The only way I'd have a problem is if the creche insist on you using that hour and forcing you to pay the session rate. Extra charges like they hate against the rules as I understand them

Eta charges per session only kick in after ECCE class has ended. It's easier to.understand if you think of using the hour of the session a bit like after school club. The ECCE class is run separately to the private/extra childcare aspect of the creche as such. (Even if they are in the same room)

Sorry but I thought I had clarified already that the sessions are 2 blocks of 4. Regardless of mornings or afternoons, I would get charged E26 per session. Even if I took him out after 3 hrs. I an getting the 3/5 th subsidy which is E39 but I pay E78/week. I think the bottom line is that I just assumed 3 free hours was standard and was fine with the extra 6.50/ hr. I clearly did not realise that there may be an additional charge in there somewhere, so signed him up without reading the small print. I have had no issue with the extra 6.50/ day at all. Just surprised that it seems more than that or I am missing something. I have paid 312 / monthly for 6 months and received 890 ECCE for the same period which is E148/ month hence just under 50%. Of coursebi didn't keep a copy of the paperwork but I clearly pay more than just the extra hour/ day.

misc2013

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

I'm totally confused. But I'll have a stab nonetheless.

€65 a week is what is paid by the ECCE to the playschools. So that's moreorless the nationwide rate.

As far as I knew, I may be wrong, you have to do the full five days to avail of the scheme? Maybe that's where it's going wrong, are you sure you're signed up to the scheme?

Additionally, why is the session 4 hours long? Are you using an extra hour on top of the usual three hours that playschool usually is, or have the playschool set it to 4 hours?

Also, 26x3 = 78, so if you are actually signed up to the scheme, and somehow using 12 hours over non standard days, which I'm not sure you're allowed, then you should be paying 12/13 extra?

Or do you mean, theoretically over a 5 day week, it would be 130? If so, the extra hour must be charged at a premium of €13, so you must ask yourself, is it worth it? Are meals provided?

I recommend phoning your local childcare Commitee. I cannot stress just how helpful they are!

I did and am none the wiser! She couldn't even tell me what the standard preschool fees are locally so I could compare and see if the creche I use is very expensive. She suggested I ring around!

lazygal

In our school there are 3 hours for the Montessori session. If you're not eligible there is a rate for this. Then there is the option of paying for one hour before the service starts its afterschool hours for local primary school children. That's 100% optional and I use it rarely, it costs €6 for the hour. If I had decided to send mine for three days the three days would be covered under the ECCE scheme but no one eligible for it does that.
I can't understand why the service isn't providing three free hours, then charging per hour for the extra hours which are supposed to be optional. It sounds very strange.

misc2013

lazygal wrote: »

In our school there are 3 hours for the Montessori session. If you're not eligible there is a rate for this. Then there is the option of paying for one hour before the service starts its afterschool hours for local primary school children. That's 100% optional and I use it rarely, it costs €6 for the hour. If I had decided to send mine for three days the three days would be covered under the ECCE scheme but no one eligible for it does that.
I can't understand why the service isn't providing three free hours, then charging per hour for the extra hours which are supposed to be optional. It sounds very strange.

In my case the extra hour is not optional as the session is a 4 hour session.

fima

The free preschool year is exactly that, a year of free preschool. It’s not childcare and it’s supposed to benefit the child through provision of quality early years education using Aistear. It’s 5 days a week for 3 hours, the lowest rate paid is 65 for room leader that holds a basic level 6 qualification which goes to 75 (and soon 80) for level 7/8 degree holders.

shesty

Same as ours so misc2013 but the charge seems very high.I actually remember a thread here somewhere about someone giving out that their playschool was charging an extra 150 eur a month as a top up fee on the free hours and they were doing the full 15 hrs.Not sure what is going on in your place.

lazygal

misc2013 wrote: »

In my case the extra hour is not optional as the session is a 4 hour session.

It has to be optional under the rules of the scheme.

happywithlife

lazygal wrote: »

It has to be optional under the rules of the scheme.

Agree. You absolutely should have had the option to take him home after 3 hours and not pay a thing. Forcing you to do and pay for a 4 hour session is against the rules.

Are you finished now this week anyway ?

I presume this was year 1 - I think I'd be looking elsewhere for year 2

misc2013

happywithlife wrote: »

Agree. You absolutely should have had the option to take him home after 3 hours and not pay a thing. Forcing you to do and pay for a 4 hour session is against the rules.

Are you finished now this week anyway ?

I presume this was year 1 - I think I'd be looking elsewhere for year 2

Firstly, I talked to the co childcare committee lady and asked about my situation without identifying the creche and that I had worked out that the "extra hour" appears quite expensive. Now, she didn't say anything about that being against the rules but kinda sheepishly indicated that some creches have different fees. Now, the fact that I mentioned the 4 hour sessions might have identified as they may be the only creche in town that do this.....


Secondly, I have made a few calls and to get into the only other other 2 alternatives I would consider - for personal reasons and practical reasons are long full for Sept. You would need to be booking preschool here a year ahead, which is what we did for this placement. They are golddust.


The expression "suck it up" springs to mind but to soften the blow, the centre is very good. There are a couple in town that I have heard less than favourable reports of.

lazygal

You are fully within your rights to only avail of the 15 free hours from September onwards thought.

ted1

pwurple wrote: »

Yup, the ECCE is not free.  
If someone could provide a building, trained staff etc for a small portion of the year, 3 hours a day, then it may be. But no business can survive doing that , so they set minimums. 
To be honest, I'm ok with them having to do that, they need to make a living too. 
I'm not OK with this ECCE scheme being lauded as an achievement, when it makes very little difference. 

Our minimum payment on top of ECCE isn't too bad in the wider scheme of things. We pay €157 euro monthly. We get 4 hours per day, during term. (so one extra hour a day).

Our kids place do it , 9:30 to 12:30. It’s in Killiney.

jlm29

I sent my eldest to a pre-school and didn’t pay anything. They offered a three hour session, nothing extra, so it was free, which is standard around here.
But that place was supposed to be closing down, so I rang another to put my next boys name down for next year, and they told me that the ecce doesn’t cover their full fees, it just subsidises them. There was a top-up charge of €15/wk. This wasn’t for any extra time. It was for “the books and things”. This made me lol a bit. The books.

dori_dormer

shesty wrote: »

Exactly.We get 16 hours hence the extra charge per month.But it just happens that those are their preschool hours, they don't have any others

They are legally obliged to offer 3 hrs a day. They cannot force you to take on extra hours. Its against policy and you should report it

misc2013

jlm29 wrote: »

I sent my eldest to a pre-school and didn’t pay anything. They offered a three hour session, nothing extra, so it was free, which is standard around here.
But that place was supposed to be closing down, so I rang another to put my next boys name down for next year, and they told me that the ecce doesn’t cover their full fees, it just subsidises them. There was a top-up charge of €15/wk. This wasn’t for any extra time. It was for “the books and things”. This made me lol a bit. The books.

Ah seriously...

dori_dormer

misc2013 wrote: »

Sorry but I thought I had clarified already that the sessions are 2 blocks of 4. Regardless of mornings or afternoons, I would get charged E26 per session. Even if I took him out after 3 hrs. I an getting the 3/5 th subsidy which is E39 but I pay E78/week. I think the bottom line is that I just assumed 3 free hours was standard and was fine with the extra 6.50/ hr. I clearly did not realise that there may be an additional charge in there somewhere, so signed him up without reading the small print. I have had no issue with the extra 6.50/ day at all. Just surprised that it seems more than that or I am missing something. I have paid 312 / monthly for 6 months and received 890 ECCE for the same period which is E148/ month hence just under 50%. Of coursebi didn't keep a copy of the paperwork but I clearly pay more than just the extra hour/ day.

It is against policy to force you into extra hours on top of ecce. You should report them for this. Ecce payments and optional extras need to be separate. They are basically saying a 4 hr
session is 26 euro. So 6.50 / hr. But ecce only gives them 15 euro so they are charging you 11 euro for the last hr! Not 6.50. They are scamming you and are not allowed do it that way.

John Mason

their fees will be clearly broken down in the fees policy they gave you and which you would have signed and handed back.

Go and ask for a copy of their fees policy if you are not being charged on that, contact your local CCC and lodge a complaint.

Here is the list of the County Childcare Committees

https://www.dcya.gov.ie/docs/City_-_County_Childcare_Committees_(CCCs)/4100.htm

John Mason

dori_dormer wrote: »

It is against policy to force you into extra hours on top of ecce. .

it actually isnt. this was changed a while back. they can run min. 4/5 sessions which will attract additional costs. Once this is clearly stated on their fees policy. you do not have to send your child there.

they cannot force you to pay for additional extras like yoga, christmas parties, school tours, arts and crafts etc.

shesty

dori_dormer wrote: »

They are legally obliged to offer 3 hrs a day. They cannot force you to take on extra hours. Its against policy and you should report it

Well there are plenty of schools around us with places that do the three hours, but we are happy to go with this one.....they are quite up front about their hours and extra fees.It's mon-thurs only.I wouldn't really say they are forcing us, we have very much chosen to go with them.

Millem

Live in South Dublin. Alot of fee paying secondary schools have started preschools....I don’t know of any that just offer 3 hours ECCE. They charge a yearly fee. The one my friend uses works out at €14.60 for 1 hour and 15 minutes extra each day. There is no option to leave early. She pays the fee at the start of the year but you can pay in installments.

Moonbeam

are you working it out over 52 weeks or 38?

misc2013

John Mason wrote: »

it actually isnt. this was changed a while back. they can run min. 4/5 sessions which will attract additional costs. Once this is clearly stated on their fees policy. you do not have to send your child there.

they cannot force you to pay for additional extras like yoga, christmas parties, school tours, arts and crafts etc.

good to know

misc2013

Moonbeam wrote: »

are you working it out over 52 weeks or 38?

38