Turning very warm/hot, heatwave conditions likely; Sunday 24th -->

Gaoth Laidir

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

How is a station, located in the often very exposed middle on nowhere, representative of those of us who live in towns etc? 'Amateur' stations, at least some of the higher quality ones, give very accurate readings. My back garden temperature, as is everybody else's, are every bit as important as a reading in some exposed field 15-20 miles away where nobody actually lives.

And anyway, the bigger point here is why there is so few 'official' stations reporting? Look, for example, that the big gaps in official data in the SE of the country in particular. Does a temp reading at Oak Park mean that 27 was the common temp in the entire SE inland region? No.

Because it's representative of the weather and climate not exposed to man-made influences. You couldn't compare a temperature in a Celbridge back garden with that of a Manhattan Street, or one in Bombay with one in Ballybunion. Having standard siting rules normalises all sites worldwide and allows consistent and reliable longterm comparisons.

But by all means use the amateur readings if you want. They don't mean much in the greater scheme of things. I mean, I would take my 30 degrees with a pinch of salt, the same way I'd take a reading from my car thermometer. Met Éireann do look at the TII roadside stations, but never report their figures in their stats as they're nonstandard and only representative of that patch of road.

Sycamore Tree

How solid is the 1887 reading of 33.3C? Kilkenny I believe.

SleetAndSnow

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I always thought Cork airport doesn't reflect conditions in the city, being at a higher altitude.

These things can't be very expensive, right?

Anyway, very pleasant day in Galway city, not hot by any means, and not sweating with the 67rh.

Maybe that will change as the week goes on.

I'd agree with that. Roches Point is also on a headland next to the Ocean and Moorepark is further inland so would generally be warmer

IMO At least the cities should have a station somewhere to represent the conditions where the majority live.

Supercell

irishrover99 wrote: »

It's much brighter now and bigger.
I've used my pint of Guinness as a size reference.

Thanks for posting, I don't think I have ever seen this phenomena except online (and not for lack of sky gazing either!), well spotted.

Gaoth Laidir

Oak Park max today was 27.5. Shannon, Mullingar and Castlederg all 26.7, Gurteen 26.6.

sryanbruen

"Ireland could face its 'second highest temperature ever'"

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1011315917328932864

Itssoeasy

I hasn't been a cloudless sky in Cork but I just took the dog for a walk and christ is there heat out there.

Oneiric 3

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Because it's representative of the weather and climate not exposed to man-made influences. You couldn't compare a temperature in a Celbridge back garden with that of a Manhattan Street, or one in Bombay with one in Ballybunion. Having standard siting rules normalises all sites worldwide and allows consistent and reliable longterm comparisons.

But by all means use the amateur readings if you want. They don't mean much in the greater scheme of things. I mean, I would take my 30 degrees with a pinch of salt, the same way I'd take a reading from my car thermometer. Met Éireann do look at the TII roadside stations, but never report their figures in their stats as they're nonstandard and only representative of that patch of road.

Most of us a surrounded by 'man made influences'. This is a fact of life. But what you seem to be saying is I should take a reading of 26c, for example, in an exposed field near Claremorris as being the actual temp of my town? Met Eireann station's themselves are only representative of a patch of grass.

Mullaghteelin

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

How is a station, located in the often very exposed middle on nowhere, representative of those of us who live in towns etc? 'Amateur' stations, at least some of the higher quality ones, give very accurate readings. My back garden temperature, as is everybody else's, are every bit as important as a reading in some exposed field 15-20 miles away where nobody actually lives.
.

This is something that always bugged me about Met Eireann forecasts, especially with night time minimums during the summer.
The forecast might say overnight lows of 11-15C. It dips to 11C in the middle of nowhere, while urban areas might eventually bottom out at 15C towards dawn. Meanwhile, the average person will just hear "11C", and think it will
be a cool night.
The BBC forecasts emphasize the difference in temperatures between rural and urban at night very well.

JCX BXC

I'd like to think my Davis is fairly representative of temperatures, it is in a fairly exposed location and consistently reads lower than things like cars in hot weather.

Of course I wouldn't claim it as fact and you can't reject that nearby official stations would be more accurate.

It is particularly annoying when people take their "my car said 39°c" and won't accept that their black 2002 Audi may not be the most accurate.

Max of 25.6c and currently only 20.8c in West Clare with very overcast skies and no sunshine.

Gaoth Laidir

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Most of us a surrounded by 'man made influences'. This is a fact of life. But what you seem to be saying is I should take a reading of 26c, for example, in an exposed field near Claremorris as being the actual temp of my town?

No, what I'm saying is that a "town" is a very different setting depending on what one were talking about. It allows no comparison to be made. If you can get a proper site within a town then great, it's a good place for a station, but most people's urban gardens are not suitable as they're too small, with too many variable obstacles (some have brick walls, others wooden panels, others hedges), and the sensors will be located too close to them.

Anyway, we do have stations in "towns"...Mullingar and Phoenix Park. Shannon is as good as in a town with all the car parks and large buildings surrounding it. We got rid of Birr and Kilrenny because the effects of the towns growing around the stations became too much.

RobertKK

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

When it comes to temperatures, official stations are official for a reason. Many of the high reports here are amateur stations in what I assume are back gardens. These will always read higher than an official station with standard exposure, and that's been the case again today. While the coverage of standard synoptic stations reporting hourly is not as dense as we'd like, there are plenty of approved climatological stations (e.g. Danno) that will feature in the monthly report, if they manage to report a proper high reading.

Personal stations are great for reporting conditions in your garden, where it will always get warmer due to buildings, walls, hedges, trees, concrete, etc., but they are useless for comparing with those in the official network. So as it stands, 27 seems to be roughly the highest of the 35 official stations on the island of Ireland today, and there's no reason to assume that there has been several degrees higher in between.

My own station for the record is out in a field away from the house and garden in an exposed location, though natural shelter from the south and east due to higher ground but very exposed to the south west to the north.

Ultimate Seduction

I'd much prefer my neighbors reading than the closest official which is Shannon, almost 60 miles away and near the coast. Who cares how warm it is in the middle of nowhere, the forecast and records should be where people actually live.

Gaoth Laidir

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I'd much prefer my neighbors reading than the closest official which is Shannon, almost 60 miles away and near the coast. Who cares how warm it is in the middle of nowhere, the forecast and records should be where people actually live.

Where do you live that your nearest station is almost 60 miles away? There is nowhere in Ireland 60 miles from their nearest station.

pad199207

Is that rain edging closer to the cork coast?

Gaoth Laidir

RobertKK wrote: »

My own station for the record is out in a field away from the house and garden in an exposed location, though natural shelter from the south and east due to higher ground but very exposed to the south west to the north.

There is still the issue of radiation shielding, as outlined by Danno. A Stevenson's Screen is the only approved housing. My Oregon had its own shield but I know it still read a little high in sunshine.

sdanseo

pad199207 wrote: »

Is that rain edging closer to the cork coast?

There is a small feature on the short range HIRLAM

aisling86

pad199207 wrote:

Is that rain edging closer to the cork coast?

It wouldn't surprise me, we have thick cloud in Macroom, there was definitely more sunshine & heat in cork city today.

Rougies

Quite chaotic looking satellite imagery today.

SleetAndSnow

its pretty cloudy in Cork City alright

Gaoth Laidir

pad199207 wrote: »

Is that rain edging closer to the cork coast?

Most likely anaprop or returns from virga at upper levels.

Oneiric 3

Think we are going to have to agree to disagree. I have no problem with official stations at all but what I am saying is that they don't necessarily represent the actual and experiential temps for the vast majority of people. Saying that a top temp of 27c was achieved would not tell the whole story, because it is based only a very limited and largely unrepresentative station network.

Jimbob1977

Clouds in Limerick sent the temperature down 3 or 4 degrees within an hour. Fresher now.

Rebelbrowser

Just to add my tuppence that I dont get the point of telling us minimum overnight temps in summer. people hear them and think it is the evening forecast. however if the min temp overnight is 12c, that is probably the temp at 4am or later. At midnight when people are still out it will be 15 or 16c degrees.

compsys

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

Just to add my tuppence that I dont get the point of telling us minimum overnight temps in summer. people hear them and think it is the evening forecast. however if the min temp overnight is 12c, that is probably the temp at 4am or later. At midnight when people are still out it will be 15 or 16c degrees.

The temperature, at least on the east coast, has fallen fairly rapidly all summer after 7pm or so. And it’s often been almost as low as it’ll go by midnight. And in fairness to MET E, there have been several nights in Dublin this May/June where the station at the airport has recorded a low of 4 of 5 degrees when the official forecast went for overnight lows several degrees higher.

Last night was the first night in Dublin where it actually felt warm and sultry well into the evening IMO.

There hasn’t been a night yet where the temp in Dublin has stayed much above 12 celcius (apart from last night probably but I haven’t seen the stats yet).

Gaoth Laidir

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Think we are going to have to agree to disagree. I have no problem with official stations at all but what I am saying is that they don't necessarily represent the actual and experiential temps for the vast majority of people. Saying that a top temp of 27c was achieved would not tell the whole story, because it is based only a very limited and largely unrepresentative station network.

So what was the top "temperature" today and what does that even mean if we throw the rulebook out the window? How can Robert compare his temperature to yours, for example, or my car reading? And do you think the 54 degrees in a Spanish street is accurate?

Oneiric 3

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

So what was the top "temperature" today and what does that even mean if we throw the rulebook out the window? How can Robert compare his temperature to yours, for example, or my car reading? And do you think the 54 degrees in a Spanish street is accurate?

You are missing my point entirely.

Is 54 degrees on a Spanish street inaccurate? How do we know either way if there is no official station there to recorded it?

Donegal Storm

The main reason most stations are in the middle of nowhere is continuity of data, towns are forever expanding and being redeveloped so data from 50 years ago could in no way be reliably compared to the present day. There's no doubt that the 33.3C record has been topped in peoples back gardens and whatnot, I could probably have found a temperature higher than 33C today if I took a reading on a sheltered slab of concrete in direct sunlight but its not an accurate representation of the airmass and meaningless in terms of an official record.

Swellan

irishrover99 wrote: »

What is up with the 3 small rainbows in the sky but instead of the usual way they go, they are horizontally across the sky. Very weird looking

Just photographed these myself. I think they are sundogs.

Oneiric 3

Donegal Storm wrote: »

The main reason most stations are in the middle of nowhere is continuity of data, towns are forever expanding and being redeveloped so data from 50 years ago could in no way be reliably compared to the present day. There's no doubt that the 33.3C record has been topped in peoples back gardens and whatnot, I could probably have found a temperature higher than 33C today if I took a reading on a sheltered slab of concrete in direct sunlight but its not an accurate representation of the airmass and meaningless in terms of an official record.

Say you got your hands on an official mercury thermometer, had it calibrated with the nearest station 15 miles away, then placed it, at standard height in some large green patch in your housing estate. Would that temperature reading be 'wrong' if it read higher or lower than the same station you calibrated your themo against in future readings?