Cannabis - It must be time for legality.

jh79

the_syco wrote: »

Inhaling it can do you harm. Although it causes less harm than tobacco, this is cancelled out because it's often held in the lungs for longer.


The booming black market for tobacco is caused by high taxation of tobacco. Also, it's less risky to be caught importing tobacco than other drugs. If it's still profitable to sell it, it'll be sold. Dropping the price would eliminate small time dealers, and thus eliminate most peoples access to it.


Do you have any research on this, and would said people have not had any other drug, legal or otherwise, in their system at the time of having that "single joint"?


There's a "risk of addiction, psychological and physical dependence" for pretty much any drug out there, especially alcohol.



Their license should be taken away because there's "little evidence on use of cannabis oil in certain conditions"; in other words, there's sweet fcuk all research done, as it's near impossible to get grants to look into the positives of weed?

Have a read of this, best review available

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1

*In adults with chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting, oral cannabinoids are effective antiemetics.
*In adults with chronic pain, patients who were treated with cannabis or cannabinoids are more likely to experience a clinically significant reduction in pain symptoms.
*In adults with multiple sclerosis (MS)-related spasticity, short-term use of oral cannabinoids improves patient-reported spasticity symptoms.
*For these conditions the effects of cannabinoids are modest; for all other conditions evaluated there is inadequate information to assess their effects.

*Cannabis use is likely to increase the risk of developing schizophrenia and other psychoses; the higher the use, the greater the risk.
*In individuals with schizophrenia and other psychoses, a history of cannabis use may be linked to better performance on learning and memory tasks.
*Cannabis use does not appear to increase the likelihood of developing depression, anxiety, and posttraumatic stress disorder.
*For individuals diagnosed with bipolar disorders, near daily cannabis use may be linked to greater symptoms of bipolar disorder than for nonusers.
*Heavy cannabis users are more likely to report thoughts of suicide than are nonusers.
*Regular cannabis use is likely to increase the risk for developing social anxiety disorder.

Skyfish

Have a look here. It might help those that want some real information. two.thesacredplant.com/docuseries/episode1stw

Skyfish

New to this Boards craic so u will have to copy and paste to work the link I think. Information to use whatever way you like.

Arrival

masterboy123 wrote: »

As a doctor working in mental health services and having acquired in depth knowledge and clinical experience around people using and abusing cannabis, I would be very much against it's use.

Even a single joint can lead to psychosis in a susceptible person (& far too many susceptible person out there now). Not too mention risk of addiction, psychological and physical dependence. There is little evidence on use of cannabis oil in certain conditions, but inhalation and oral use cannabis is dangerous.

In short, involved risks outweighs benefits.

Watch this video. An important factor in cases such as the ones you have experience with, which are the minority of users I must emphasise, is noting how often a lot of them consumed cannabis and the strains of cannabis they used. No doubt they only had access to high THC and low CBD strains of cannabis as these are absolutely the most commonly available strains in Ireland due to the fact that there is no regulation. Regulation would allow consumers to choose their strains and avoid overly strong, potent strains entirely which would hugely reduce the strain on the mental health services you're experiencing. Do you like and agree with the ability we all have to enter an off license and choose to buy beer or wine or hard liquor and decide to have a few cans or glasses of wine or get **** faced as quickly as possible with the liquor? The same will be possible with cannabis as there are a huge amount of different strains with different levels of strength. I personally do not smoke because I don't want to risk psychosis with these ridiculously strong strains available, they're simply too uncomfortable to smoke. Legalisation and regulation would allow me to really learn about what I am putting into my body and I could do so knowing the product is perfectly made with no harmful additives and I'd also be able to consume it in a cleaner, healthier way (I don't want to smoke, I'd opt for vapes or edibles)

We can't cater to the minority, ever, but it just so happens that catering to the majority would actually positively help that minority also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP15q815Saw

masterboy123

To people out there saying there is a huge evidence and so called "research" done showing therapeutic effects cannabis in excess of it's associated risk, please first get to know the hierarchy of a scientific evidence and how to critically appraise it. Relying and believing on few case reports or even at some cross sectional studies does not reflect the wider picture.

I do acknowledge there are therapeutic effects of cannabis, however I still strongly believe those benefits does not outweighs the risks!

This is my professional opinion and I would suggest to consult with your own doctor before you go on experimenting cannabis.

Dia dhuit.

AndyBoBandy

When my friend was dying of cancer (he was early 30’s), and enduring excruciating pain, the only effective pain relief he got was from smoking weed. He told his doctor this and the doctor said that if that’s what worked for him, to go for it and continue doing it, as he saw the pain he was enduring.

nthclare

There's weeds and plants growing in hedgerows here in Ireland, if utilised properly they cure allsorts of pain and ailments.

A lot of roots are natural anti-inflammatory....

Takes a lot of studying and botanical knowelege to get it right though....

You could kill yourself if you didn't know what you're drinking or chewing....

Forager for life

Benteke

masterboy123 wrote: »

To people out there saying there is a huge evidence and so called "research" done showing therapeutic effects cannabis in excess of it's associated risk, please first get to know the hierarchy of a scientific evidence and how to critically appraise it. Relying and believing on few case reports or even at some cross sectional studies does not reflect the wider picture.

I do acknowledge there are therapeutic effects of cannabis, however I still strongly believe those benefits does not outweighs the risks!

This is my professional opinion and I would suggest to consult with your own doctor before you go on experimenting cannabis.

Dia dhuit.

My girlfriend niece went to Holland to help her with her seizures, Advised by her doctor

the_syco

Skyfish wrote: »

Have a look here. It might help those that want some real information. two.thesacredplant.com/docuseries/episode1stw

Shall ignore

The Sacred Plant is brought to you by TSP Publishing LLC

which seems to be managed by one person, and looks very click-baity.

masterboy123 wrote: »

To people out there saying there is a huge evidence and so called "research" done showing therapeutic effects cannabis in excess of it's associated risk, please first get to know the hierarchy of a scientific evidence and how to critically appraise it.

People say that there is a load of research, but I find it's often based on survey data.

Benteke wrote: »

Their has been plenty of research done all around the world to show it helps with certain conditions, Anyone who thinks otherwise live in cloud cuckoo

Links to said scientific research is great. Links to people saying it worked for them is worth jack sh|t, as it's very rarely done in a scientific environment.

jh79 wrote: »

Have a read of this, best review available

https://www.nap.edu/read/24625/chapter/1

I'm briefly skimming through this, and I'm seeing that it causes cancer when smoked, and although it helps with the pain, will cause you to get cancer, and what you buy in dispensaries "bear little resemblance" to that which is used in research, and thus little is know about the efficacy, side effects, etc, of said weed.

"The committee did not identify any good-quality primary literature that reported on cannabis or cannabinoids for the treatment of cancer", so I'll change "sweet fcuk all research done" to "sweet fcuk all proper research done", as although there has been research, it means jack sh|t.

Benteke

the_syco wrote: »

Links to people saying it worked for them is worth jack sh|t, as it's very rarely done in a scientific environment.

So the one bit of evidence that shows it helps people is jack sh1t, I could show you many videos of people who suffer from seizures taking some cannabis and a few moments later they are much better but as you say that evidence is jack sh1t because it will prove you're talking out of your backside, My GFs niece had up to 300 seizures a month, She ended up going to Holland and that was cut down to 6 a week but of course that sort of evidence to you is jack sh1t

jh79

the_syco wrote: »

I'm briefly skimming through this, and I'm seeing that it causes cancer when smoked, and although it helps with the pain, will cause you to get cancer, and what you buy in dispensaries "bear little resemblance" to that which is used in research, and thus little is know about the efficacy, side effects, etc, of said weed.

"The committee did not identify any good-quality primary literature that reported on cannabis or cannabinoids for the treatment of cancer", so I'll change "sweet fcuk all research done" to "sweet fcuk all proper research done", as although there has been research, it means jack sh|t.

Plenty of pre clinical data with purified CBD for cancer and based on that it wouldn't be worth pursuing clinical trials in the vast majority of cancers.

Brae100

From the skin inwards is mine. No one else has any right to tell me what I can or can't put into my body.

ceadaoin.

the_syco wrote: »

Shall ignore

which seems to be managed by one person, and looks very click-baity.


People say that there is a load of research, but I find it's often based on survey data.


Links to said scientific research is great. Links to people saying it worked for them is worth jack sh|t, as it's very rarely done in a scientific environment.


I'm briefly skimming through this, and I'm seeing that it causes cancer when smoked, and although it helps with the pain, will cause you to get cancer, and what you buy in dispensaries "bear little resemblance" to that which is used in research, and thus little is know about the efficacy, side effects, etc, of said weed.

"The committee did not identify any good-quality primary literature that reported on cannabis or cannabinoids for the treatment of cancer", so I'll change "sweet fcuk all research done" to "sweet fcuk all proper research done", as although there has been research, it means jack sh|t.

Where does it say it will cause cancer? This is the summary of the studies you linked, none of which found a significant increase in cancer risk amongst cannabis smokers

The evidence suggests that smoking cannabis does not increase the risk for certain cancers (i.e., lung, head and neck) in adults.
There is modest evidence that cannabis use is associated with one subtype of testicular cancer.

Graces7

Brae100 wrote: »

From the skin inwards is mine. No one else has any right to tell me what I can or can't put into my body.

Amen to that. Thank you.

Graces7

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

When my friend was dying of cancer (he was early 30’s), and enduring excruciating pain, the only effective pain relief he got was from smoking weed. He told his doctor this and the doctor said that if that’s what worked for him, to go for it and continue doing it, as he saw the pain he was enduring.

Wise good doctor. Thank you.

Modern meds are limited when it comes to pain relief and many try alternatiives to gain some relief.

Graces7

nthclare wrote: »

There's weeds and plants growing in hedgerows here in Ireland, if utilised properly they cure allsorts of pain and ailments.

A lot of roots are natural anti-inflammatory....

Takes a lot of studying and botanical knowelege to get it right though....

You could kill yourself if you didn't know what you're drinking or chewing....

Forager for life

Yeah! Blackberries contain a natural antibiotic.. Deadly nightshade earned its name

hatrickpatrick

nthclare wrote: »

There's weeds and plants growing in hedgerows here in Ireland, if utilised properly they cure allsorts of pain and ailments.

A lot of roots are natural anti-inflammatory....

Takes a lot of studying and botanical knowelege to get it right though....

You could kill yourself if you didn't know what you're drinking or chewing....

Forager for life

I mean isn't the commercially-banned St John's Wort an invasive pest in gardening terms, which can be easily grown and extracted by average punters if they're willing to put in a bit of effort?

It's absolutely ridiculous that we're still living in an era in which there's a view that government has a right to limit how people can manipulate their own bodies in the privacy of their own homes using naturally occurring substances. Absolutely mind boggling that this is still a thing.

wexie

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I mean isn't the commercially-banned St John's Wort an invasive pest in gardening terms, which can be easily grown and extracted by average punters if they're willing to put in a bit of effort?

It's absolutely ridiculous that we're still living in an era in which there's a view that government has a right to limit how people can manipulate their own bodies in the privacy of their own homes using naturally occurring substances. Absolutely mind boggling that this is still a thing.

While I absolutely agree with you, you and I both know it's not about that. It's not about the fact that it is 'bad' for ya, or the fact that it increases crime etc. etc. etc. yada yada.

It's about money and it's about control.

Plain and simple.

thomas 123

The only reason id keep it illegal is the smell. You can smell it from miles away.

I was out rugby training last night and someone sparked up 400M away from me and I could easily smell it.

It was smelled before it was seen.

I used to live in Limerick city also and every day on the dock road I could smell it.

If you can fix that then great :P

And before someone ruses in to say you can smell drink too poo poo - yes you can, but you cant smell 1 Guinness 400m away

Graces7

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I mean isn't the commercially-banned St John's Wort an invasive pest in gardening terms, which can be easily grown and extracted by average punters if they're willing to put in a bit of effort?

It's absolutely ridiculous that we're still living in an era in which there's a view that government has a right to limit how people can manipulate their own bodies in the privacy of their own homes using naturally occurring substances. Absolutely mind boggling that this is still a thing.

St John;s Wort has dangers and side effects. Many of us with eg M/E/CFS tried it for pain. Eg stopping it gives you the most excruciating headaches ever which raises alarms. I would never touch it again.

You can now once more buy it in Ireland

https://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/herbal-antidepressant-st-johns-wort-returns-34115535.html

These plant substances need care as they are often very powerful and even dangerous in inexpert hands and need great care.

I agree with you in general terms!

Graces7

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I mean isn't the commercially-banned St John's Wort an invasive pest in gardening terms, which can be easily grown and extracted by average punters if they're willing to put in a bit of effort?

It's absolutely ridiculous that we're still living in an era in which there's a view that government has a right to limit how people can manipulate their own bodies in the privacy of their own homes using naturally occurring substances. Absolutely mind boggling that this is still a thing.

You can buy it again now..

For my own part, I'd say to legalise it and make it available to the public. It's always been available to those who really want to find it, in whatever quantity they can afford. I've bought ounces of the stuff in the past and it wasn't difficult or organise. When I was a teen, it was easier to get a block of cannabis than it was to get alcohol...

The only issue is quality, and better quality is healthier. The problem with what is available is that you have no idea what it's been mixed with. So, for me, the best reason to legalise it, is simply that those who want to smoke would, at least, be smoking something pure or at least fit for its purpose rather than a lot of the dodgy crap out there.

Banning cannabis hasn't worked even slightly. As for health problems, pretty much everything these days can be linked to one cancer or another. As others have pointed out, in Ireland most people mix with tobacco to spread out the cost, but making it legal would remove that need, and risks would be lowered. Excessive use of anything is dangerous... but while I know many "stoners" very few of them can manage large regular intake of weed. It's generally too strong for most people for that kind of behavior.

jh79

Graces7 wrote: »

Wise good doctor. Thank you.

Modern meds are limited when it comes to pain relief and many try alternatiives to gain some relief.

Weed has performed poorly in chronic pain clinical trials , worse than what is already available and with more side effects.

AndyBoBandy

jh79 wrote: »

Weed has performed poorly in chronic pain clinical trials , worse than what is already available and with more side effects.

It worked wonders for my friend, and gave him some relief in his last few months.

If it worked for 1 in 1,000 people wouldn’t it be worth it for that person?

seamus

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

It worked wonders for my friend, and gave him some relief in his last few months.

If it worked for 1 in 1,000 people wouldn’t it be worth it for that person?

Yes, but if a medicine only worked for 1/1000 people, it would never get approved.

Therapeutic use, knock yourself out. Medicinal use? It has to be proven to work.

AndyBoBandy

seamus wrote: »

Yes, but if a medicine only worked for 1/1000 people, it would never get approved.

Therapeutic use, knock yourself out. Medicinal use? It has to be proven to work.

If that’s the case then might as well ban all herbal remedies sold, as they aren’t proven as an actual medicine!

And why can’t it be sold as a herbal remedy?

wexie

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If that’s the case then might as well ban all herbal remedies sold, as they aren’t proven as an actual medicine!

I would imagine actually the far majority can't legally be sold as 'medicine' and are being marketed as food supplements.

It's fairly strictly regulated what can and can't be called 'medicine' apparently.

jh79

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If that’s the case then might as well ban all herbal remedies sold, as they aren’t proven as an actual medicine!

And why can’t it be sold as a herbal remedy?

Herbal remedies are allowed because the sellers don't claim a medical benefit. If they do they are breaking the law.

seamus

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If that’s the case then might as well ban all herbal remedies sold, as they aren’t proven as an actual medicine!

And why can’t it be sold as a herbal remedy?

Oh believe me, if I was dictator, it would be illegal to sell herbal remedies in pharmacies or anywhere near the medicine in a supermarket

It should be sold as a herbal remedy. I don't know why people don't campaign for it.

wexie

seamus wrote: »

Oh believe me, if I was dictator, it would be illegal to sell herbal remedies in pharmacies or anywhere near the medicine in a supermarket

It should be sold as a herbal remedy. I don't know why people don't campaign for it.

And at the same time to have homeopathy banned

jh79

seamus wrote: »

Oh believe me, if I was dictator, it would be illegal to sell herbal remedies in pharmacies or anywhere near the medicine in a supermarket

It should be sold as a herbal remedy. I don't know why people don't campaign for it.

CBD oil is sold as a herbal remedy, it is the misuse of drugs act that prevents thc weed being sold as a herbal remedy.

But because of fake news and the likes of Gino Kenny / Vera Twomey it will never be sold as a herbal remedy as too many gullible people now believe it is an effective medicine for pretty much everyrhing.

Graces7

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

It worked wonders for my friend, and gave him some relief in his last few months.

If it worked for 1 in 1,000 people wouldn’t it be worth it for that person?

You beat me to this; thank you. I am locked in chronic, severe pain and the only med that works consistently is codeine which is hard to get these days,,I am trying CBD oil, as yes it has worked for some and if there is a chance, great. Side effects are fewer than eg paracetamol which is useless for me . Pain deprives of
so much. And yes, I would try cannabis at need. Have been offered it often enough by kind folk seeking to help .

Graces7

jh79 wrote: »

CBD oil is sold as a herbal remedy, it is the misuse of drugs act that prevents thc weed being sold as a herbal remedy.

But because of fake news and the likes of Gino Kenny / Vera Twomey it will never be sold as a herbal remedy as too many gullible people now believe it is an effective medicine for pretty much everyrhing.

It is actually marketed here as a food supplement; they cannot advertise it as a remedy or make claims for it like that.

https://www.fsai.ie/faq/cbd_oils_and_hemp_oils_legal_status.html

Graces7

jh79 wrote: »

Herbal remedies are allowed because the sellers don't claim a medical benefit. If they do they are breaking the law.

The phrase legally allowed is food supplement.

https://www.fsai.ie/faq/cbd_oils_and_hemp_oils_legal_status.html

remedy is too loaded a word!

jh79

Graces7 wrote: »

The phrase legally allowed is food supplement.

https://www.fsai.ie/faq/cbd_oils_and_hemp_oils_legal_status.html

remedy is too loaded a word!

True, remedy implies it might actually help whereas you'd struggle to find 10 herbs that actually have any benefits. Complete waste of money unless your only using for flavour.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Yes, but if a medicine only worked for 1/1000 people, it would never get approved.

Therapeutic use, knock yourself out. Medicinal use? It has to be proven to work.

Does it? I often wonder how "fair" these trials actually are.

For example, I have Essential tremor. There are two 'approved' methods to treat it. One is the use of extreme beta blockers, which essentially turns the person into a vegetable (but they won't shake), and there are literally dozens of severe side-effects depending on your own biology. Then there's surgery to apply a pump near the brain. Apparently, it works. Sometimes. Absolutely no guarantee for either treatments and both have the capacity to serious shorten your life. I should also point out that both treatments are quite expensive.

I can attest that moderate amounts of 'pure strain' weed can reduce the shakes to almost no noticeable amount (my noticing, not others). IMHO, Weed is highly unlikely ever to become an approved simply because it won't make the medical organisations any real money...

AndyBoBandy

Deleted User wrote: »

Weed is highly unlikely ever to become an approved simply because it won't make the medical organisations any real money...

This is a huge factor in it being still illegal in most places.

Pharmaceutical companies can't copyright or patent a naturally growing plant, so there'll be absolutely Zero piece of the pie for them when it becomes more mainstream, so its in their best interests to keep it demonised and 'not viable'

Call it conspiracy theory if you want, but they'd much rather you take (their) synthetic drugs than naturally occurring drugs you can grow in your own wardrobe.

jh79

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

This is a huge factor in it being still illegal in most places.

Pharmaceutical companies can't copyright or patent a naturally growing plant, so there'll be absolutely Zero piece of the pie for them when it becomes more mainstream, so its in their best interests to keep it demonised and 'not viable'

Call it conspiracy theory if you want, but they'd much rather you take (their) synthetic drugs than naturally occurring drugs you can grow in your own wardrobe.

GW pharma have done this already. It is a silly conspiracy theory used to distract from the lack of evidence of effectiveness.

The reason it won't be a real medicine is the thc high prevents blinding in clinical trials meaning there is an inherent bias in the data.

wexie

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Pharmaceutical companies can't copyright or patent a naturally growing plant, so there'll be absolutely Zero piece of the pie for them when it becomes more mainstream, so its in their best interests to keep it demonised and 'not viable'

I wouldn't be too sure of that now....seems they can own patents on gene sequences of real live wild animals...I'd imagine that plants are a lot easier

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/nearly-half-all-patents-marine-genes-belong-just-one-company-180969325/

A creature as majestic as a whale, you might think, should have no owner. Yet it turns out that certain snippets of the DNA that makes a sperm whale a sperm whale are actually the subjects of patents—meaning that private entities have exclusive rights to their use for research and development. The same goes for countless other marine species. And new research shows that a single German chemical company owns 47 percent of patented marine gene sequences.

Personally by the way I think this being possible is absolutely wrong and outright disgusting by the way. If they develop a technology using a particular gene sequence I'd see no issues with a patent on that. But being able to own a patent on wild animals (or plants) that occur in nature just seems wrong on absolutely every level.

(Crucially it seems it's not possible to patent human gene sequences)

SEPT 23 1989

I should be able to walk into my local Centra and buy a nine bar after mass

wexie

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I should be able to walk into my local Centra and buy a nine bar after mass

screw that, you should be able to walk into your local Centra and buy a 9 bar before, during as well as after mass!!!

SEPT 23 1989

wexie wrote: »

screw that, you should be able to walk into your local Centra and buy a 9 bar before, during as well as after mass!!!

Let's not get ahead of ourselves

One step at a time

buried

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I should be able to walk into my local Centra and buy a nine bar after mass

We should all be able to walk into mass and buy a nine bar. The Vatican ain't historically got no problem looking for cash money in exchange for voodoo escapism products

Brae100

Leo is looking at decriminalisation. There's already an expert group looking at juristictions where it has been decriminised. He seems quite keen on it. This could happen a lot quicker than any of us thought.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/0622/972527-taoiseach-expert-group-cannabis/

AndyBoBandy

It’s coming down the line, no matter what the opinions on this thread are.

Billy86

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

It’s coming down the line, no matter what the opinions on this thread are.

The real question is definitely not 'if' but 'when', my guess being late 2020s/early 2030s.

Graces7

jh79 wrote: »

Weed has performed poorly in chronic pain clinical trials , worse than what is already available and with more side effects.

Details please as this is not accurate

Ubbquittious

Graces7

jh79 wrote: »

True, remedy implies it might actually help whereas you'd struggle to find 10 herbs that actually have any benefits. Complete waste of money unless your only using for flavour.

Oh dear!

Graces7

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Suspect me arse. 80% of the adult Irish population drink alcohol, making it the number one "recreational drug" in the country.

I bet you, or someone you love is a "recreational drug" user. :eek:

Then you lose your money or whatever you wagered. Happy to be in the 20% who use no alcohol etc. As are all my loved ones.

Noone needs it.