Cannabis - It must be time for legality.

wexie

PowerToWait wrote: »

That's happening in the rec market in California despite regulation.

I'm always curious when people say the 'weed is sprayed' without specifying what with. it's often in relation to the potency of the cannabis in question, so it's sprayed with other substances to augment potency. Urban myth according to my 'friends in the know'.

Sprayed with fungicide / pesticide fair enough. Good chance out of a warehouse in Salford.

There seems to have been some truth about the powdered glass thing from a decade ago. But from what I hear the market and consumer have matured considerably since then.

While I suspect you're probably right the issue isn't whether or not it's currently happening, the issue is that we don't know and have no way of controlling it or stopping it from happening.

Legalizing would solve that in one foul swoop, you can't have quality control over something that doesn't officially happen.

PowerToWait

PowerToWait wrote: »

That's happening in the rec market in California despite regulation.

I'm always curious when people say the 'weed is sprayed' without specifying what with. it's often in relation to the potency of the cannabis in question, so it's sprayed with other substances to augment potency. Urban myth according to my 'friends in the know'.

Sprayed with fungicide / pesticide fair enough. Good chance out of a warehouse in Salford.

There seems to have been some truth about the powdered glass thing from a decade ago. But from what I hear the market and consumer have matured considerably since then.

Well, I'll just say that the range of options for blocks is rather varied, and general quality can be... very hit and miss. Mixing other things with the block (or powdered hash) to add weight is quite common depending on the dealer, just as spraying the block to add potency with other drugs/substances to add the high to the non-cannabis material is well-recognised.

As for your friends in the know... they know their own dealers, and such. Personally, I've done other drugs in the past and I've recognised similar effects and the same withdrawal pangs from smoking a block as using the other drug itself. Which shouldn't be happening from "pure" unaltered cannabis.

It's worth noting I'm not talking weed here. I generally avoid weed as it's too strong for me, and also usually too expensive for the amount received. I don't enjoy being stupid stoned unable to do anything at all. So weed, isn't my first choice most of the time, unless I know the grower, and can find out the actual strain used.

Graces7

When I was new here in Ireland, living in Lovely Leitrim, there was a Dutch couple, living in a polytunnel, growing weed... At least that is what I was told....

The Bishop Basher

If you feel strongly about this.. have your say here..

https://health.gov.ie/consultations/

It's mainly multiple choice so quick and easy..

They're taking submission till July 13th so share it around.

wexie

Rennaws wrote: »

If you feel strongly about this.. have your say here..



It's mainly multiple choice so quick and easy..

They're taking submission till July 13th so share it around.

Linky

Brae100

PowerToWait wrote: »

That's happening in the rec market in California despite regulation.

I'm always curious when people say the 'weed is sprayed' without specifying what with. it's often in relation to the potency of the cannabis in question, so it's sprayed with other substances to augment potency. Urban myth according to my 'friends in the know'.

Sprayed with fungicide / pesticide fair enough. Good chance out of a warehouse in Salford.

There seems to have been some truth about the powdered glass thing from a decade ago. But from what I hear the market and consumer have matured considerably since then.

That's about right. The spraying of weight enhancers, like glass frosting that happened in the past seems to have disappeared. The issue is with the pesticides required to deal with spider mites. That **** is lethal and is sprayed on all commercial grows as a preventative.

Find someone you know who grows small scale. Will usually be a near enough organic grower. Keeps money out of criminal gangs.

Schwanz

Ten years most West countries will be "Legal"

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30110-5/fulltext

Another study showing weeds lack of effectiveness in treating chronic pain.

AlphabetCards

Weed for medicinal effects was always intended as a red herring, a trojan horse for getting it legalised recreationally for the benefit of Big Tobacco / Big Dope. Peter Hitchens and the Bow Group held a good talk in the Houses of Parliament last night which outlined a lot of the history of how the Misuse of Drugs act 1971 (UK) has paved the way for this nonsense. Worth looking to see if it has been uploaded online, if even to see my ugly mug.

Ash.J.Williams

jh79 wrote: »

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30110-5/fulltext

Another study showing weeds lack of effectiveness in treating chronic pain.

I think at stage it will be legalised with out looking at medical use

Potential-Monke

jh79 wrote: »

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30110-5/fulltext

Another study showing weeds lack of effectiveness in treating chronic pain.

Maybe someone who has read all this can tell me the type of cannabis used, the strain, how much, etc. I saw someone else post this on Facebook, and some of the comments mentioned that it was carried out in Australia, where cannabis is still illegal and so uncontrolled, unknown strains were used, ie: the people who took part were buying it illegally. In which case, the study isn't worth anything.

I'm wide open to correction, and if it does show that the cannabis used was controlled, then grand, they're study is worth something.

Edit: Did a bit more reading, and it does appear that cannabis was still illegal for the participants so the use was not controlled. A quote from it:

'The percentage of participants reporting that they would use cannabis if they had access to it increased from 33% at baseline to 60% at 4-year follow-up.'

So it's great that they did this study, but the results are not worth anything as the cannabis being used was not controlled. If it's not controlled, you don't know the dose, strain, side-effects, etc, so the results are not accurate.

Benteke

The results of one of the world's longest in-depth studies examining the relationship between cannabis use and chronic pain is raising doubts over whether cannabis reduces either pain severity or opioid use. The study, recently published in Lancet Public Health, is proving controversial as its findings contradict a growing body of research suggesting exactly the opposite.

The new Australian research, from the National Drug & Alcohol Research Center at UNSW Sydney, tracked over 1,500 subjects for four years. Participants suffered from chronic, non-cancer pain, and were all currently prescribed opioids as their primary pain management tool. Following a baseline interview and a three-month follow up, the subjects were reinterviewed every year for the following four years.

Using questionnaires and interviews all subjects self-reported their pain severity, mental well-being, and opioid and cannabis use. The results found no evidence that cannabis use reduces pain severity, in fact, the study reported that those using cannabis reported higher levels of both pain and anxiety compared to those not using the drug.

"At each assessment, participants who were using cannabis reported greater pain and anxiety, were coping less well with their pain, and reported that pain was interfering more in their life, compared to those not using cannabis," says Gabrielle Campbell, lead author on the study. "There was no clear evidence that cannabis led to reduced pain severity or pain interference or led participants to reduce their opioid use or dose."

The study is proving reasonably controversial in the field of medical marijuana research for its seemingly contradictory results when compared to other recent similar studies. While studies on the effects of cannabis for chronic pain have historically presented rather mixed results this seems to be due to the lack of specificity in many of these studies, as well as an inability to objectively determine a metric for pain severity.

Other research into more specific dosages and administrations of cannabis in relation to the drug's analgesic effects have found that low versus high dosing can make a key difference in the efficacy of its pain-modulating effects.

Another anachronistic element of this new study is the fact that while adjusted longitudinal analyses found no difference in pain severity between cannabis and non-cannabis users, the acute self-reporting of individual cannabis users suggested it was indeed effective for their pain. In fact, the study reports that the mean score for cannabis' efficacy on pain as self-reported by individual cannabis users was seven out of 10. The researchers hypothesize this odd inconsistency could possibly be due to cannabis' effects on other lifestyle aspects, such as improving sleep, which subsequently improves well being.

This data point importantly suggests that the effects of cannabis on the overall wellbeing of a patient suffering from chronic pain cannot be easily measured by simply trying to calculate acute pain severity.

A systematic review of all the current research by the National Academies of Sciences in 2017 concluded there is, "substantial evidence that cannabis is an effective treatment for chronic pain in adults." This review did note, however, that variations in different clinical study conclusions reflected the assortment of different doses and routes of administration, suggesting more specific work needed to be done to accurately find effective consumption methods.

One of the most significant limitations of this new study stems from the fact that for the majority of this Australian study, medicinal cannabis was illegal. This means the study collected no data on how subjects were consuming the cannabis or what form it took. David Caldicott, a researcher from Australian National University, even suggested in an interview with Buzzfeed, that all this study proves is that medical marijuana in an illicit market doesn't work.

"This paper shows that an unregulated market doesn't appear to work, but it certainly doesn't prove that medicinal cannabinoids don't work for pain,' says Caldicott.

It is also very significant to note the overall numbers of cannabis users versus non-cannabis users in the study seems to be markedly out of balance. At the final four-year follow up point there were a total of 1,217 subjects still in contact with the researchers. Of that number, only six percent (or 79 subjects) reported daily or near-daily cannabis use, and only 16 percent reported using cannabis at any point over the past 12 months.

In Australia, medical cannabis usage was only approved for a very limited number of conditions in 2016. While the United States and Canada are moving to more broadly allow recreational usages of the drug, Australia is moving much more slowly and conservatively. Despite the disappointing limitations of this study, and its conclusions being somewhat inconsistent with broader international research, it may slow down further medical cannabis legislation in the country over the coming years.

The study was published in the journal The Lancet Public Health.

Hard to take any study seriously when they don't even know how the patients are taking their cannabis or what strain they are using or if the patients were still using it during the study, Looks like a proper waste of 4 years

It seems more like a study with an agenda rather than an unbiased account.

Billy86

Seems odd, especially since the lancet tend to be very reputable. You may as well be testing the use of alcohol as an antiseptic by pouring a can of Dutch gold over someone with the flu.

Potential-Monke

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Maybe someone who has read all this can tell me the type of cannabis used, the strain, how much, etc. I saw someone else post this on Facebook, and some of the comments mentioned that it was carried out in Australia, where cannabis is still illegal and so uncontrolled, unknown strains were used, ie: the people who took part were buying it illegally. In which case, the study isn't worth anything.

I'm wide open to correction, and if it does show that the cannabis used was controlled, then grand, they're study is worth something.

Edit: Did a bit more reading, and it does appear that cannabis was still illegal for the participants so the use was not controlled. A quote from it:

'The percentage of participants reporting that they would use cannabis if they had access to it increased from 33% at baseline to 60% at 4-year follow-up.'

So it's great that they did this study, but the results are not worth anything as the cannabis being used was not controlled. If it's not controlled, you don't know the dose, strain, side-effects, etc, so the results are not accurate.

But the claims by many on here that cannabis has benefits for chronic pain are based on illegal use and this study shows there is no evidence for that when properly assessed.

It has performed badly with controlled medical marijuana too for chronic pain.

The idea that the strains are the issue is just a way of the retailers getting you to waste more money on another miracle cure.

Anyone have any evidence that the strains have different medical properties apart from a retailer just saying so?

Benteke

Benteke wrote: »

Hard to take any study seriously when they don't even know how the patients are taking their cannabis or what strain they are using or if the patients were still using it during the study, Looks like a proper waste of 4 years

A systematic review of all the current research by the National Academies of Sciences in 2017 concluded there is, "substantial evidence that cannabis is an effective treatment for chronic pain in adults."

That was based on Sativex which doesn't require a change in the law for access. Weed itself was found to have no benefit for chronic pain in the national Academies review.

Ash.J.Williams

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I think at stage it will be legalised with out looking at medical use

The problem in Ireland is that the two most high profile campaigners (Vera T and Gino) want it to have the same legal status as actual medicine in spite of the fact the available evidence doesn't support such a stance. It's not recognised as medicine in the US, Canada or Europe yet still available. Why can't we just do what they did?

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

But the claims by many on here that cannabis has benefits for chronic pain are based on illegal use and this study shows there is no evidence for that when properly assessed.

They pretty much admit that it wasn't properly assessed, and then go on to pass judgement. For them to "properly" assess it, wouldn't the people taking cannabis have a regular supply? No effort was made to arrange that. (although having lived in Brisbane, I wonder why the study didn't just focus on the Nimbin area, which would have provided such a steady result.)

The idea that the strains are the issue is just a way of the retailers getting you to waste more money on another miracle cure.

Anyone have any evidence that the strains have different medical properties apart from a retailer just saying so?

A retailer? I would suggest you try a variety of strains and see the actual effects yourself. There's a definite difference in the experience you have while stoned, which would suggest that there would be a difference to its effectiveness against pain. [Different strains definitely affect my shakes while others do nothing. ]

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

They pretty much admit that it wasn't properly assessed, and then go on to pass judgement. For them to "properly" assess it, wouldn't the people taking cannabis have a regular supply? No effort was made to arrange that. (although having lived in Brisbane, I wonder why the study didn't just focus on the Nimbin area, which would have provided such a steady result.)



A retailer? I would suggest you try a variety of strains and see the actual effects yourself. There's a definite difference in the experience you have while stoned, which would suggest that there would be a difference to its effectiveness against pain. [Different strains definitely affect my shakes while others do nothing. ]

Again the claim that it works for chronic pain comes form illegal use (the evidence with medical marijuana doesn't show a benefit bar Sativex which isn't illegal in Ireland). A sample size of 2000 from illegal use showed no benefit. I'd trust the data from 2000 people more than single reports from users. Those 2000 couldn't of all got bad strains for chronic pain.

I have tried different strains (legally in Amsterdam) . Didn't see much of a difference from about the 7 or 8 types i tried. I just stuck to skunk in the end.

Benteke

jh79 wrote: »

A systematic review of all the current research by the National Academies of Sciences in 2017 concluded there is, "substantial evidence that cannabis is an effective treatment for chronic pain in adults."

That was based on Sativex which doesn't require a change in the law for access. Weed itself was found to have no benefit for chronic pain in the national Academies review.

I advise you to read the article that you posted, To give you a run down if you don't want to bother is as follows

- The patients were not given cannabis from the study, They had to go to drug dealers

- They do not know the strains that were used

- Most of the patients did not even stay the full term due to them not wanting to deal with drug dealers

If you are going to do a study of this importance then at least give patients the cannabis they need for their pain instead of them going to drug dealers who won't sell them the right strain, 4 years they spent on this study and they did all the important things wrong, Only an idiot would take this study seriously

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

Again the claim that it works for chronic pain comes form illegal use (the evidence with medical marijuana doesn't show a benefit bar Sativex which isn't illegal in Ireland). A sample size of 2000 from illegal use showed no benefit. I'd trust the data from 2000 people more than single reports from users. Those 2000 couldn't of all got bad strains for chronic pain.

Of course you would, because you're seeking reasons why cannabis can't be useful. You're against cannabis use for pain relief. Otherwise, you would have acknowledged the weaknesses of this report by using a group of people who were unable to obtain a secure supply.

Any regular user of cannabis has their source, and frankly, is rarely without it. (unless they're in Ireland where options are often quite limited)

EDIT: Let me put it this way. I could have my father agree to taking cannabis regularly to help with his pain... however since he neither grew up at a time when cannabis was common, or had previous experience in obtaining it... he could try for months without obtaining any, no regular supply and no way to compare the quality of what he bought. This study seems to be doing exactly that. Telling normal people to use an illegal drug for pain medication without any consideration of the difficulties involved...

I have tried different strains (legally in Amsterdam) . Didn't see much of a difference from about the 7 or 8 types i tried. I just stuck to skunk in the end.

Fair enough... there is still the individualistic biology to consider in how cannabis affects us.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Of course you would, because you're seeking reasons why cannabis can't be useful. You're against cannabis use for pain relief. Otherwise, you would have acknowledged the weaknesses of this report by using a group of people who were unable to obtain a secure supply.

Any regular user of cannabis has their source, and frankly, is rarely without it. (unless they're in Ireland where options are often quite limited)

EDIT: Let me put it this way. I could have my father agree to taking cannabis regularly to help with his pain... however since he neither grew up at a time when cannabis was common, or had previous experience in obtaining it... he could try for months without obtaining any, no regular supply and no way to compare the quality of what he bought. This study seems to be doing exactly that. Telling normal people to use an illegal drug for pain medication without any consideration of the difficulties involved...



Fair enough... there is still the individualistic biology to consider in how cannabis affects us.

I'm against its use for chronic pain because i've yet to see any evidence that it works for chronic pain. Random testimonials from the internet are worthless.

Benteke

jh79 wrote: »

I'm against its use for chronic pain because i've yet to see any evidence that it works for chronic pain. Random testimonials from the internet are worthless.

That would be up to the GPs to decide not someone who posts on a forum who it does not effect

PS: The article you posted is now getting slated in OZ and further a field for been a shoddy study

Benteke

Benteke wrote: »

That would be up to the GPs to decide not someone who posts on a forum who it does not effect

PS: The article you posted is now getting slated in OZ and further a field for been a shoddy study

No , it's up to the HPRA to decide not a GP and they found lots of flaws in the available evidence.

Even if you discount the findings of that study you still have no evidence that it works for chronic pain.

Benteke

jh79 wrote: »

No , it's up to the HPRA to decide not a GP.

Even if you discount the findings of that study you still have no evidence that it works for chronic pain.

If it was made legal GPs will advise if their patient needs it or not, That should not be up for debate, It's common sense

Why would I discount the findings of a study who does not bother supplying the right strain for their patients individual cases, Telling them to go and get their drugs of street dealers and not knowing what strain they were using and they also did not bother to keep up to date with their patients to see if they were still using cannabis

I would not say I would discount the findings, I would be more obliged to call your article that you posted a complete and utter cluster fcuk

Many people benefit from cannabis, It's beyond question and doubt at this stage, After reading more about your article that you posted, It was so bad their is even people who against cannabis calling it out for it's shoddy way of going about it because it does not help their cause

The only result of this article is that people should not buy medical cannabis of drug dealers... SHOCKER

Benteke

Benteke wrote: »

If it was made legal GPs will advise if their patient needs it or not, That should not be up for debate, It's common sense

Why would I discount the findings of a study who does not bother supplying the right strain for their patients individual cases, Telling them to go and get their drugs of street dealers and not knowing what strain they were using and they also did not bother to keep up to date with their patients to see if they were still using cannabis

I would not say I would discount the findings, I would be more obliged to call your article that you posted a complete and utter cluster fcuk

Many people benefit from cannabis, It's beyond question and doubt at this stage, After reading more about your article that you posted, It was so bad their is even people who against cannabis calling it out for it's shoddy way of going about it because it does not help their cause

The only result of this article is that people should not buy medical cannabis of drug dealers... SHOCKER

The HPRA won't allow GP's to dispense it without evidence it works for chronic pain and that evidence doesn't exist at the moment.

Benteke

jh79 wrote: »

The HPRA won't allow GP's to dispense it without evidence it works for chronic pain and that evidence doesn't exist at the moment.

Why did the doctor advise my GF's niece parents to go to Holland for her seizures? As for saying theirs no evidence for chronic pain, You obviously don't know anyone who has to go through it, The funny part of this is it does not effect you in the slightest, If someone decides they want to use cannabis and it helps them then who gives a toss about studies if it's helping them

You posted an article to back up your point and it has failed miserably and the sad part about it is you didn't even bother reading it before posting, If you did it would never have been posted and this conversation would not be happening, People who benefit from cannabis is not evidence for you but posting cluster fcuk articles are, I think that pretty much sums up your stance on the subject

Hopefully what happened today at least makes you read articles before posting, I find if you do, their is less back tracking to be done

Benteke

Benteke wrote: »

Why did the doctor advise my GF's niece parents to go to Holland for her seizures? As for saying theirs no evidence for chronic pain, You obviously don't know anyone who has to go through it, The funny part of this is it does not effect you in the slightest, If someone decides they want to use cannabis and it helps them then who gives a toss about studies if it's helping them

You posted an article to back up your point and it has failed miserably and the sad part about it is you didn't even bother reading it before posting, If you did it would never have been posted and this conversation would not be happening, People who benefit from cannabis is not evidence for you but posting cluster fcuk articles are, I think that pretty much sums up your stance on the subject

Hopefully what happened today at least makes you read articles before posting, I find if you do their is less back tracking to be done

Who said anything about seizures we are talking about chronic pain??

This isn't the only study that shows no benefit for chronic pain just the latest.

Benteke

jh79 wrote: »

Who said anything about seizures we are talking about chronic pain??

This isn't the only study that shows no benefit for chronic pain just the latest.

I'm just given an example, I know another guy who had one of his balls chopped of due to cancer and the doctor told him to use cannabis for any pain and for him to have a better sex life

You can not call it the latest because it is a cluster of an article and it's getting laughed at from all quarters

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Pyr0 wrote: »

I know people who are mentally and physically fried from alcohol abuse or have died from smoking related cancers.

If anything, legalise it to take it away from the dealers and tax the f*ck out of it.

Taxing the **** out of it will put customers straight back into the hands of illegal dealers.