Ire vs Aus - Test Number Three

Bridge93

Also couldn't believe it when I saw this was only POMs 50th cap. Had presumed he'd way more. That two year gap I suppose accounted for a lot

Former Former

POM will be fine, he was the best breakdown operator on the pitch last week even though Pocock, Hooper and Leavy were out there.

Having seen Rhys Ruddock also do a sterling job at 7 in the past, and the ten-year debate over whether O'Brien is better at 6 or 7, I'm not sure there's really that much of an issue for a guy to switch across.

May Contain Small Parts

Squidgy Black wrote: »

O'Mahony was superb at the breakdown last week. He had more impact in an 'openside' effect than any other player over the last two tests.

Not sure where this is all coming from. Just because he's solid in the lineout doesn't mean he plays like a second row.

Breakdown* is only a small part of openside play. I think we get distracted by this and ignore the rest.

O'Mahony doesn't give you link-play/supporting play that are the bread&butter of an openside. He doesn't have the speed to get up and nail players in defence to stub things out.
These are things that need to be done for a team to succeed.

RE second-row comparison, it was based purely on his style of play around the field. He spends his time making tackles close in, hitting rucks, little bits of ball-carrying...similar to what you expect from a second-row.


*O'Mahony got 3 steals last weekend and fair play to him - it was an exception though.

awec

Cooney coming home with about 30 seconds of game time total. Marmion will probably be the same.

irishbucsfan

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

Breakdown* is only a small part of openside play. I think we get distracted by this and ignore the rest.

O'Mahony doesn't give you link-play/supporting play that are the bread&butter of an openside. He doesn't have the speed to get up and nail players in defence to stub things out.
These are things that need to be done for a team to succeed.

RE second-row comparison, it was based purely on his style of play around the field. He spends his time making tackles close in, hitting rucks, little bits of ball-carrying...similar to what you expect from a second-row.


*O'Mahony got 3 steals last weekend and fair play to him - it was an exception though.

Getting up in the line for an openside defensive is not about speed. It's about decision-making and work rate. Both of which he is excellent at. It's about knowing when you are more valuable in the defensive breakdown or in the defensive line. If the team want him to lead that, he's able for it.

Yes, the link play is an issue. Not something Murphy is better than him at however.

Buer

POM will be fine. He has excellent hands (very underrated part of his game) and has linked up superbly well on several occasions on this tour so far. Notably taking the offload last week from Ringrose before offloading to Henshaw or the previous week when getting the ball in wider channels and showing some lovely touches.

And many considered Leavy to be our first choice openside going into this tour. Leavy is a lot of things but he does not have great speed off the mark at all. POM is well able to judge the attack and shut it down behind the gain line.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

I'm not so sure it is - also if we lose the series we have a double whammy of losing the series and not giving game time to a reserve scrumhalf 18 months out from the WC.

I assume he'll have to start one to be match fit for the ABs but then that leaves us with only 2 games for the reserves which makes it even more difficult to understand the game time they've got this series.

We're fecked if they're not available for the AIs after almost ignoring them in this series and the 6Ns.

If we lose, we lose. You can't legislate for that.

How much gametime should they realistically have got in the 6N? Do you potentially sacrifice a GS?

I don't think Schmidt believes in the backups vs. Murray and that plays into him playing 80 minutes in crunch games. Murray is at a level where I don't blame Schmidt on that front. It certainly has the potential to bite Ireland but I think we are effed if Murray goes down anyway.

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

Cooney coming home with about 30 seconds of game time total. Marmion will probably be the same.

Just being in the squad will benefit him and I'm sure we will see more of him in November.

Obviously the half back depth remains an issue. But considering the amount of other changes in the team, keeping Sexton/Murray there gives them the best chance to perform.

To be honest, I think we are in trouble if Sexton or Murray go down in the world cup anyway and a cap or two against Australia for someone else won't change that.

May Contain Small Parts

Buer wrote: »

POM will be fine. He has excellent hands (very underrated part of his game) and has linked up superbly well on several occasions on this tour so far. Notably taking the offload last week from Ringrose before offloading to Henshaw or the previous week when getting the ball in wider channels and showing some lovely touches.

so...once? Look, while he's not the fastest, it's not his physical attributes - he's just someone who's very focused on a different parts of the game. I wouldn't say his handling is underrated...how do you rate him when you seldom see him using them? He goes out there and gets through work, but has a the opposite mindset for open play.

Buer wrote: »

And many considered Leavy to be our first choice openside going into this tour. Leavy is a lot of things but he does not have great speed off the mark at all. POM is well able to judge the attack and shut it down behind the gain line.

I suppose here I'd make the comparison here between Van Der Flier and Leavy - the VDF is much stronger at the defensive parts of openside play and Leavy at the attacking (kind of like pocock and hooper...ish). Either way, shutting down behind the gain line, while very useful, isn't what you want your openside doing.

This isn't having a go at O'Mahony by the way, I wouldn't criticise someone for not being able to do something that isn't their job. But it isn't his job.

irishbucsfan

These criticisms are just completely hollow to me.

He's not "least suited" to openside play at all, in fact his strengths suit it. He's just an unknown quantity there because he hasn't been used there yet.

This definitive claim that Murphy is our best suited openside while POM is our least suited is baseless to me. I'm looking forward to see how POM goes, gives us another string in our bow if he shows he is capable of quickly shifting between the roles in the space of a week.

Buer

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

so...once? Look, while he's not the fastest, it's not his physical attributes - he's just someone who's very focused on a different parts of the game. I wouldn't say his handling is underrated...how do you rate him when you seldom see him using them? He goes out there and gets through work, but has a the opposite mindset for open play.

You're not watching then. POM has handled the ball a significant amount on this tour. Last week, the only guys who passed it more were the halfbacks and Ringrose (POM passed 6 times). He moved the ball more times than Henshaw or Kearney or more than the other 3 Irish back rowers combined. In the first test, he passed 5 times which is the same as Pocock and a very healthy number for a back row player.

He doesn't play a link game by trade but he's well able to move the ball and is extremely skillful. He's not asked to do it much as his role normally keeps him in around the ruck but when he does, such as this tour or on the Lions tour, he has shown some excellent pieces of skill with quick hands.

crossman47

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

O'Mahony at 7 is unbelievable.
His style of play is just a world apart from what it needs - really he plays more like a second row.

He may have a fine game, but we'll really miss not having and openside.

Well POM has to play so its just a question of where.

May Contain Small Parts

irishbucsfan wrote: »

These criticisms are just completely hollow to me.

He's not "least suited" to openside play at all, in fact his strengths suit it. He's just an unknown quantity there because he hasn't been used there yet.

It's not a criticism of him, it's a criticism of picking hime in that position.

It's not an unknown quantity either. Style of play happens on a sort of a spectrum and for his whole career he's been on the opposite end of it.

irishbucsfan

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

It's not a criticism of him, it's a criticism of picking hime in that position.

It's not an unknown quantity either. Style of play happens on a sort of a spectrum and for his whole career he's been on the opposite end of it.

No, he absolutely hasn't been on the opposite end of it.

May Contain Small Parts

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, he absolutely hasn't been on the opposite end of it.

That's mind-boggling.

irishbucsfan

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

That's mind-boggling.

Well to be fair I'm wrong to say he's not at the opposite end of "it", because to attempt to claim there's a single 'spectrum of play' for a back row forward is completely wrong really.

There are many areas of the game they're involved in. In none of those areas is he at the opposite end of any imaginary spectrum. The only player in our current back row who is would be Stander with how he's used offensively.

sydthebeat

Apart from scrum time, there's no real definite aspect to a 7s game over a 6.... It's actually more about balance in the back row over specific duties. What we get from POM in the air at line out time doesn't depend on t he number on his back. Neither does his tackle count (which is never overly high to be fair, due to him being a menace on their rucks.... Which is exactly what we want from an openside)

The balance is good in this row with stander, Ryan and Conan all good with defensive work which frees POM up to being a bollox on their ball. In attack, it's an excellent balance actually with stander a top class carrier in the tight, conan an excellent carrier in the loose and POM excellent at heads up link play.

I have worries for this game, but it's not in the back row.

Squidgy Black

I'm excited to see how Conan gets on. There's doubts over if he can make the step-up to this level, but he's impressed towards the tail end of this season playing some of his best rugby in a Leinster shirt.

Buer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'm excited to see how Conan gets on. There's doubts over if he can make the step-up to this level, but he's impressed towards the tail end of this season playing some of his best rugby in a Leinster shirt.

I'll be very intrigued to see how he goes. He certainly gives us something else with ball in hand and that's a good option to have but I get a sense of now or never for him in green. He needs to show he can do a job in this game because he's possibly not going to get another top level international start this side of the RWC barring injury.

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'm excited to see how Conan gets on. There's doubts over if he can make the step-up to this level, but he's impressed towards the tail end of this season playing some of his best rugby in a Leinster shirt.

I'm not overly worried about the backrow bar I don't think there is anyone there who absolutely excels at shifting bodies. POM is great at the technical aspect of the breakdown but I certainly think our backrow lacks a bit of power on the ground.

That said, our props are good to exceptional at clearing out, Ryan has incredible power at low angles despite his size and most of our backs are comfortable and capable at impacting the breakdown.

I echo what you've said though, I would love to see Conan realise his club play potential at this level. If he has a stand out game I'd be delighted and I really hope he takes this opportunity because as we've seen there aren't many on offer.

Ireland will have fully figured Australia out and I think they are going to fold on Saturday, game to be over by 50 minutes, Larmour to come on and add to his highlights reel at some stage and Ross Byrne to claim his first cap. Ireland by more than 10 but probably a lot more.

COME ON IRELAND.

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

Australia still available at +4 after the team announcements and I expect that to drop by 2 points by kick off.

Im surprised Coleman is still there, the cheek injury mustn't have been a bad as they thought. Oz are really going to target our line out this time, with tui in the back row as third jumper and hanigan on the bench. A 6/2 split for the third week by cheiks. If we can get phipps under pressure he will crack.... And cheika will be very slow to bring powell off the bench.

That Ireland midfield are getting a chance to redeem itself are the first test, hopefully they are up for it, and they get that extra bit of marshaling from Sexton inside. they will target Sexton of course, knowing we have a greenhorn replacement on the bench.

I think aus might just sneak this.
But I expect a cracking tough game.

It was +3 on paddy power before the squads were announced

sydthebeat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It was +3 on paddy power before the squads were announced

Weird, they were +4 all week and I checked this morning after I saw the teams and they were still +4.

Maybe the shortened to +3 yesterday...and the money is following Ireland

errlloyd

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'm excited to see how Conan gets on. There's doubts over if he can make the step-up to this level, but he's impressed towards the tail end of this season playing some of his best rugby in a Leinster shirt.

The best rugby he's ever played was the group stages of the Champions Cup in 2016-2017. When he scored that hat-trick against Montpellier and stuff. Amazingly he was playing six, but he was smashing people.

Buer

Interesting comments from Schmidt regarding Ross Byrne training at 12 as well as 10 to be able to provide some extra versatility from the bench if required.

Trojan

Buer wrote: »

Interesting comments from Schmidt regarding Ross Byrne training at 12 as well as 10 to be able to provide some extra versatility from the bench if required.

IRFU might have to send Byrne to Ulster to get him some game time at 12 as he's 4th in the depth chart behind Henshaw, ROL & Daly (9th if you include outside centres).

arsebiscuits1

Anyone having doubts about POM at 7 is overlooking the major reason he has been kept in the backrow.

He's an incredible lineout jumper.

It's no secret that a large chuck of Joes attacking plan stems directly from set piece.

Jordi is an accomplished and underrated jumper. But not quite at peerless and the Aussies would fancy a chance at him. Dev is obviously exceptional and Ryan is very adept.

But Schmidt has always picked a solid lineout option in his back row to give 3 viable options. It's nearly his primary MO.

CJ and Conan are not good enough jumpers and the Aussies would target them hard.

Any potential worry Joe has in his mind about POMs ability at 7 is far outweighed by the fact that he offers a solid platform for our attack to function

Dubinusa

Anytime Sexton is in the line up we have a chance. Aki can hit rucks, and carry into contact. Conan needs to show up. This is a golden opportunity for him, will be interesting to see how he goes. I think he's a game changer with his ball carrying and link play and I think he'll cause Oz all kinds of ptoblems.
I am disappointed that Marmion or Cooney didn't get the nod. Real chance for top end exposure. Glad to see Cronin start. At least we'll know where he stands afterwards. Disappointed for Hendo, real shame as he and Conan together could be lethal. Jack needs to lay down a marker to put pressure on church.
J Ryan is being flogged, I would have liked Beirne to start. POM at 7? We shall see but Stander is a good 6. Glad Stock is back , he will be hungry after missing last week. I expect us to play tight and hold onto the ball. Rack up some penalties and apply constant pressure. The midfield will be ok and surely Henshaw could not be as bad as he was 2 weeks ago. He's not Ringrose obviously but he is a good replacement.
Ross Byrne to condemn Carberry to the bench for ....ever.
Delighted for him. Hope he gets on the field and plays great. Awful to see Earls and Stock on the wings, awful for Oz.

arsebiscuits1

Also.

Carbery dropped for an uncapped Leinster player.

Shocking Leinster bias from Joe.

You can mask this all you want. Joe used to be Leinster coach. He knows the Leinster players better. He is always going to pick them in a 50/50 even if its not close.

Shocking bias. Can't believe the establishment are ruining rugby. I hate everyone

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

If we lose, we lose. You can't legislate for that.

How much gametime should they realistically have got in the 6N? Do you potentially sacrifice a GS?

No, you don't sacrifice a Grand Slam or even a chance of a Championship win but you can take a punt during a summer or autumn series and we simply don't do it.

Murray and that plays into him playing 80 minutes in crunch games. Murray is at a level where I don't blame Schmidt on that front

That's obvious

It certainly has the potential to bite Ireland but I think we are effed if Murray goes down anyway.

That bite might be lessened if these lads get more game time

Podge_irl wrote: »

Just being in the squad will benefit him and I'm sure we will see more of him in November.

How many squads do they need to be in before they're trusted for a 20 minute roll off the bench or a start with Murray available to come on? If they're not getting it now then will they really get much meaningful game time in the autumn?

Podge_irl

phog wrote: »

No, you don't sacrifice a Grand Slam or even a chance of a Championship win but you can take a punt during a summer or autumn series and we simply don't do it.

Schmidt has made unenforced changes in every single one of the games for the summer tour. While still having us in contention for a first Sanzar tour victory since the 70s.

How many squads do they need to be in before they're trusted for a 20 minute roll off the bench or a start with Murray available to come on? If they're not getting it now then will they really get much meaningful game time in the autumn?

This is Cooney's first right? The November games have always been used to give some gametime to more fringe players and do some rotation so yeah, I would expect them to get gametime there.

You can't magic depth out of thin air and a 40 minute stint against Australia is not going to be the difference maker that lets a player slip in seamlessly come world cup time. Having Sexton/Murray there is important for all the new players around them as well. Marmion has been in and around squads for years now - its possible that Schmidt has simply decided he will never be good enough for a larger role and giving him more gametime won't change that.

.ak

I’m nervous for that backrow. Think Hoopcock will take us to the cleaners.

sydthebeat

.ak wrote: »

I’m nervous for that backrow. Think Hoopcock will take us to the cleaners.

Hoopcock?

I really hope that doesn't take on.... I much prefer pooper myself.

awec

TBH I think we'll lose.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

Hoopcock?

I really hope that doesn't take on.... I much prefer pooper myself.

So does awec.....

Dubinusa

Regardless of the result, we'll know more about Cronin, Conan and Scannell. This to me is the most important aspect of the tour.
Larmour has quietly racked up the minutes and looks comfortable at this level. We also get a good look at Beirne and that is huge.
A lot of questions will be answered and going forward JS will know what kind of squad will be needed for Japan. Carberry should get game time for Munster and if he bombs, Ross Byrne will be next in line.
All in all, a lot of fellas are auditioning for the world cup and we'll know more next week. I think win or lose this match we're getting guys into the field that need to be evaluated. It's a win-win.

May Contain Small Parts

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, he absolutely hasn't been on the opposite end of it.

Well I strongly disagree and I would argue that in watching him compared to someone like Hooper it's clear...but this is going nowhere and I'm sure neither of us want to flog a dead horse.

Elsewhere in the backrow, it might be better with Conan at 6 and Stander at 8 - Stander is stronger in the first couple of metres and Conan can really use the extra bit of room on the flank.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

I’m nervous for that backrow. Think Hoopcock will take us to the cleaners.

awec wrote: »

TBH I think we'll lose.

We will score more than 30 points and Australia will score less than 20.

May Contain Small Parts

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Anyone having doubts about POM at 7 is overlooking the major reason he has been kept in the backrow.
He's an incredible lineout jumper.
It's no secret that a large chuck of Joes attacking plan stems directly from set piece.
Jordi is an accomplished and underrated jumper. But not quite at peerless and the Aussies would fancy a chance at him. Dev is obviously exceptional and Ryan is very adept.

But Schmidt has always picked a solid lineout option in his back row to give 3 viable options. It's nearly his primary MO.
CJ and Conan are not good enough jumpers and the Aussies would target them hard.

Any potential worry Joe has in his mind about POMs ability at 7 is far outweighed by the fact that he offers a solid platform for our attack to function

Fair point about o'mahony in the lineout. He is by far our best operator there. While our lineout has been good this tour, it's been below par all year and we could easily slide back into that.

Not sure Conan is bad in the lineout, I just don't think he gets used enough to tell.
I haven't seen him do anything exceptional there, but I haven't seen him mess anything up either.

The Lost Sheep

Podge_irl wrote: »

Just being in the squad will benefit him and I'm sure we will see more of him in November.

Obviously the half back depth remains an issue. But considering the amount of other changes in the team, keeping Sexton/Murray there gives them the best chance to perform.

To be honest, I think we are in trouble if Sexton or Murray go down in the world cup anyway and a cap or two against Australia for someone else won't change that.

Yes we probably will be in trouble if Sexton or Murray do go down in the world cup but not giving their back ups enough games in big tests outside the world cup is crazy and while a few caps wont change things too much giving the back ups/potential back ups a few games at least shows we did look at options.

sydthebeat wrote: »

Apart from scrum time, there's no real definite aspect to a 7s game over a 6.... It's actually more about balance in the back row over specific duties. What we get from POM in the air at line out time doesn't depend on t he number on his back. Neither does his tackle count (which is never overly high to be fair, due to him being a menace on their rucks.... Which is exactly what we want from an openside)

The balance is good in this row with stander, Ryan and Conan all good with defensive work which frees POM up to being a bollox on their ball. In attack, it's an excellent balance actually with stander a top class carrier in the tight, conan an excellent carrier in the loose and POM excellent at heads up link play.

I have worries for this game, but it's not in the back row.

Totally. Its all about the balance of the 3 guys who start and how they all operate together.

phog

Podge_irl wrote: »

Schmidt has made unenforced changes in every single one of the games for the summer tour. While still having us in contention for a first Sanzar tour victory since the 70s.

We're talking about scrumhalf? I missed both games so far but based on match reports I'm fairly sure Murray has played almost the entire 160 mins. Is this incorrect?

This is Cooney's first right? The November games have always been used to give some gametime to more fringe players and do some rotation so yeah, I would expect them to get gametime there.

You can't magic depth out of thin air and a 40 minute stint against Australia is not going to be the difference maker that lets a player slip in seamlessly come world cup time. Having Sexton/Murray there is important for all the new players around them as well. Marmion has been in and around squads for years now - its possible that Schmidt has simply decided he will never be good enough for a larger role and giving him more gametime won't change that.

Based on what you're saying so you seem happy that we go into the WC with Cooney as our reserve SH and he possibly only having two starts and those yet to come in the Autumn games.

Podge_irl

phog wrote: »

We're talking about scrumhalf? I missed both games so far but based on match reports I'm fairly sure Murray has played almost the entire 160 mins. Is this incorrect?


Based on what you're saying so you seem happy that we go into the WC with Cooney as our reserve SH and he possibly only having two starts and those yet to come in the Autumn games.

That is correct. But you can't look at one position completely in isolation. Changing the whole team would be counterproductive. Schmidt is rotating quite a bit in positions where he views it as useful.

I'm not happy with it at all. But I won't be happy to see Cooney or Marmion or McGrath get a minute of meaningful gametime in the world cup no matter how many starts they have between now and then.

This match is quite close to what Ireland are likely to experience in the 1/4 final of the next world cup should we top our pool. A winner takes all match thousands of miles from home with a somewhat depleted squad against a top 6 outfit. Given our inability to go beyond the 1/4 final stage it's a good work out for the squad and an important milestone for us. Sexton talks about Ireland being an outcome based team, we win this and we'll carry a lot of belief into November and beyond, it's our last time in the Southern Hemisphere until the World Cup.

Now on the turn side of that, we lost the last 1/4 final in my opinion almost exclusively due to a lack of depth. We've remedied much of that through squad development but we're still in a tentative place when it comes to the half backs. I guess a win this weekend is viewed as more important to developing our depth further at 9 and 10 but I firmly believe that it was probably a tight enough decision and squad selection (fitness dependent) for the Autumn and maybe even six nations is already being considered by the coaches.

I also think losing Ringrose was a catalytic factor in the lack of rotation at 9 and 10. I know everyone isn't as exuberant in praise as I am but he is one of our key men now as far as I'm concerned and if his next 10 games are as impressive as his last 10 then I think his world class status will be largely unanimous. He doesn't need to get better (though I'm sure he will) - he is doing some incredible stuff on and off the ball and I'd bet the house he'd start a Lions test at 13 as of right now (Jonathan Davies would have a big say in that but I don't think there is anything between them and Ringrose has more scope to improve).

Either way, I can appreciate why a win is being prioritised over further development most specifically at 9. I'm absolutely fine with it and I think by and large the tour has been a success from a squad development point of view. Not perfect, but pretty good and we've a lot to be happy about.

Drifter50

Gary Ringrose a huge loss

I`m wary of the 3 subs for the backs. Should Cooney or Carberry not give more options. If Bundee or Robbie are injured, realistically we are replacing him with Marmion for this game

Dan Leavy a huge loss, surely Jordi would be a better fit if he`s not available

I`m more in hope than expectation now

Christy42

Ringrose is a big loss. Playing Marmion would not make him a suitable replacement. We would just be more likely to lose this game.

Development is not all about game time. You can't just keep putting a decent player out there to make him great.

May Contain Small Parts

Deleted User wrote: »

Now on the turn side of that, we lost the last 1/4 final in my opinion almost exclusively due to a lack of depth.

I disagree. It didn't help, but what lost it was the turgid rugby we played. We never had a hope of scoring enough to win, even if we'd had all our starters.

May Contain Small Parts

Drifter50 wrote: »

Gary Ringrose a huge loss
I`m wary of the 3 subs for the backs. Should Cooney or Carberry not give more options. If Bundee or Robbie are injured, realistically we are replacing him with Marmion for this game

If not the stated plan on Byrne at 12 then I'd expect to see Larmour at 13.
He's spent a bit of time covering there with Leinster and did well, but you'd want him to learn a bit more about how to defend there to make him your go-to back-up.

Funnily enough, with his step and acceleration it could be a great idea to convert him to centre.

Burkie1203

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

I disagree. It didn't help, but what lost it was the turgid rugby we played. We never had a hope of scoring enough to win, even if we'd had all our starters.

We missed a penalty to level the scores. Anyone's game after that.

Sexton SOB and Payne were massive losses defensively and If they were on the pitch I don't think Argentina would have had a 17 point headstart. Our issues early on that day stemmed from the ultra quick ball and ability to get beyond the 13 channel in the blink of an eye.

Podge_irl

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

I disagree. It didn't help, but what lost it was the turgid rugby we played. We never had a hope of scoring enough to win, even if we'd had all our starters.

The way we played in defence was pretty much contingent on having our starters - or more precisely the exact starters we lost. Sexton/Payne in midfield and SOB at 7 would have meant out narrowness in defence getting exposed a lot less.

I think the focus on depth is as much about having a style that allows multiple players to rotate into it as it is about the players themselves.

Yeah_Right

Deleted User wrote: »

This match is quite close to what Ireland are likely to experience in the 1/4 final of the next world cup should we top our pool. A winner takes all match thousands of miles from home with a somewhat depleted squad against a top 6 outfit. Given our inability to go beyond the 1/4 final stage it's a good work out for the squad and an important milestone for us. Sexton talks about Ireland being an outcome based team, we win this and we'll carry a lot of belief into November and beyond, it's our last time in the Southern Hemisphere until the World Cup.

Now on the turn side of that, we lost the last 1/4 final in my opinion almost exclusively due to a lack of depth. We've remedied much of that through squad development but we're still in a tentative place when it comes to the half backs. I guess a win this weekend is viewed as more important to developing our depth further at 9 and 10 but I firmly believe that it was probably a tight enough decision and squad selection (fitness dependent) for the Autumn and maybe even six nations is already being considered by the coaches.

I also think losing Ringrose was a catalytic factor in the lack of rotation at 9 and 10. I know everyone isn't as exuberant in praise as I am but he is one of our key men now as far as I'm concerned and if his next 10 games are as impressive as his last 10 then I think his world class status will be largely unanimous. He doesn't need to get better (though I'm sure he will) - he is doing some incredible stuff on and off the ball and I'd bet the house he'd start a Lions test at 13 as of right now (Jonathan Davies would have a big say in that but I don't think there is anything between them and Ringrose has more scope to improve).

Either way, I can appreciate why a win is being prioritised over further development most specifically at 9. I'm absolutely fine with it and I think by and large the tour has been a success from a squad development point of view. Not perfect, but pretty good and we've a lot to be happy about.

I think you are spot on with what you've written except for one thing. Japan is in the northern hemisphere

I think one of these reasons that Schmidt isn't concerned about giving the back up scrum halves much game time is Sexton. If any of them do have to replace Murray in a big match their instructions are simple - Do what Johnny tells you to do.

arsebiscuits1

Drifter50 wrote: »

Gary Ringrose a huge loss

I`m wary of the 3 subs for the backs. Should Cooney or Carberry not give more options. If Bundee or Robbie are injured, realistically we are replacing him with Marmion for this game

Dan Leavy a huge loss, surely Jordi would be a better fit if he`s not available

I`m more in hope than expectation now

Joe said in the presser that they've looked at RB at 12 and Larmour covers everything else.

Larmour played 13 against England fairly well.

We'd be putting Stockdale or Earls in the centre long before we put Marmion in there. Hell if we were even more stuck than that Murray at 10, Sexton at 12 and Marmion to 9 is still more likely than him coming on in the centre