Toyota is bringing back Camry and discontinuing Avensis

road_high

Augeo wrote: »

I had a chr for 4 days or so last year. Great bus IMO. 50mpg, the adult in the back reckoned there was plenty room and the boot tokk 3 people's luggage no problem.

Lovely to drive, great seating position.

Couldn't fault it.

I drove it shortly after spending a month in a Ford Edge in the States and that was not too long after spending 5 weeks in a Kuga. The CHR was no doubt smaller than both of them but was at least Corolla size internally so plenty big enough for many people / families.

I like the look of them. Seems to have hit a note with Irish buyers- they’re in the top ten new sales

JohnBoy26

road_high wrote: »

I like the look of them. Seems to have hit a note with Irish buyers- they’re in the top ten new sales

The interior is top notch quality in them, they are much nicer inside than the likes of a kona.

They drive very well too and look great in certain colours. Blue being the nicest colour imo.

road_high

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The interior is top notch quality in them, they are much nicer inside than the likes of a kona.

They drive very well too and look great in certain colours. Blue being the nicest colour imo.

The colour and spec (like most cars) lifts them enormously. Saw a bog standard silver one today and it only looked average compared to other ones I've seen.
Only thing is I think they're a tad pricey and pity they couldn't stick in the 1.6 BMW diesel as an option for higher mileage drivers. But for most the 1.2 and 1.8 will do. Other than that great car

ba_barabus

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The interior is top notch quality in them, they are much nicer inside than the likes of a kona.

They drive very well too and look great in certain colours. Blue being the nicest colour imo.

Believe it or not Toyota designers drafted in Lexus designers to sort the interior to make it top notch.

colm_mcm

ba_barabus wrote: »

Believe it or not Toyota designers drafted in Lexus designers to sort the interior to make it top notch.

They did a similar job with the iQ, it had some amazing interior materials for a small car.

JohnBoy26

road_high wrote: »

The colour and spec (like most cars) lifts them enormously. Saw a bog standard silver one today and it only looked average compared to other ones I've seen.
Only thing is I think they're a tad pricey and pity they couldn't stick in the 1.6 BMW diesel as an option for higher mileage drivers. But for most the 1.2 and 1.8 will do. Other than that great car

Silver just doesn't suit them. They can't be got in bog standard trim, luna and sol is the spec they come in but the right colour makes them stand out.

road_high

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Silver just doesn't suit them. They can't be got in bog standard trim, luna and sol is the spec they come in but the right colour makes them stand out.

Oh right must have been a Luna then, was parked a bit away.

ba_barabus

colm_mcm wrote: »

They did a similar job with the iQ, it had some amazing interior materials for a small car.

And the new Auris. I'm told the 2l Hybrid is actually sporty by someone who has driven it

road_high

colm_mcm wrote: »

They did a similar job with the iQ, it had some amazing interior materials for a small car.

Toyota are capable of such brilliant cars when they put the effort in. The IQ is finished now is it? Probably not a great seller at the price

colm_mcm

Yeah it’s gone since 2015, but it never took off here in the first place. Toyota Ireland stuck on a huge margin on them. A 1.33 makes a nice car of them - but the default option here was that rotten 1.0 3 cylinder that Toyota Ireland insist on ruining Irish spec small cars with.

The Urban Cruiser came out the same time. Another Japanese Toyota that through poor exchange rates with the Yen and distributor greed where specs were bizzare and overpriced meant that it too was doomed from day 1.

With that in mind, I’d be skeptical about the Camry being priced correctly.

road_high

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yeah it’s gone since 2015, but it never took off here in the first place. Toyota Ireland stuck on a huge margin on them. A 1.33 makes a nice car of them - but the default option here was that rotten 1.0 3 cylinder that Toyota Ireland insist on ruining Irish spec small cars with.

The Urban Cruiser came out the same time. Another Japanese Toyota that through poor exchange rates with the Yen and distributor greed where specs were bizzare and overpriced meant that it too was doomed from day 1.

With that in mind, I’d be skeptical about the Camry being priced correctly.

Yea, the cars they bring directly from Japan often flop for the reasons you outline. They’ll have to price the Camry keenly as large petrol cars traditionally aren’t sought after here. Especially with a non premium badge.
The stuff they make in England, France and turkey are the vast bulk of sales

Casati

Camry is a four door so that a major disadvantage- all the sellers in the large family class are either hatchback or estates now, unless its a premium car like 5 series/ A6 it will be very hard to shift.

I notice too that the Mondeo Hybrid is only saloon and the boot is half filled with batteries and makes it difficult to fit anything large in it - e.g. a large suitcase or big tv. Lack of boot space will make these hybrids a niche product - can they not fit them under the floor?

I'd say the higher design of the cross overs makes it easier to engineer a decent boot and space for the batteries

colm_mcm

Casati wrote: »

Camry is a four door so that a major disadvantage- all the sellers in the large family class are either hatchback or estates now, unless its a premium car like 5 series/ A6 it will be very hard to shift.

Passat?

I do agree with you though, non German saloons aren’t selling.

zilog_jones

Casati wrote: »

I notice too that the Mondeo Hybrid is only saloon and the boot is half filled with batteries and makes it difficult to fit anything large in it - e.g. a large suitcase or big tv. Lack of boot space will make these hybrids a niche product - can they not fit them under the floor?

2018 US-spec Camry Hybrid has 427 litres of boot space, the same as the standard petrol models. It has a smaller petrol tank instead - 49 vs. 60 litres - but it can do 62 vs. 38 MPG (standard 2.5) so still has a greater range.

Ford still haven't got the hang of this hybrid thing, so seem to have done things a bit arseways

colm_mcm

zilog_jones wrote: »

2018 US-spec Camry Hybrid has 427 litres of boot space, the same as the standard petrol models. It has a smaller petrol tank instead - 49 vs. 60 litres - but it can do 62 vs. 38 MPG (standard 2.5) so still has a greater range.

Ford still haven't got the hang of this hybrid thing, so seem to have done things a bit arseways

That’s smaller than the boot on my civic. Avensis is 509 litres. IS300h is 450 litres.

zilog_jones

It's better than the 383 litres of the Mondeo Hybrid, at least. The US standards for measuring boot space might be stricter too, I'm don't remember exactly. It's very popular as a taxi in the US, so is far from unacceptably small.

Casati

zilog_jones wrote: »

2018 US-spec Camry Hybrid has 427 litres of boot space, the same as the standard petrol models. It has a smaller petrol tank instead - 49 vs. 60 litres - but it can do 62 vs. 38 MPG (standard 2.5) so still has a greater range.

Ford still haven't got the hang of this hybrid thing, so seem to have done things a bit arseways

That’s a small boot size for a large family car. The Mondeo’s is frankly smaller and way less useful a shape that most compact cars so that’s going to rule out a lot of potential buyers.

The small petrol tank will be a pita for diesel drivers used to a 1200 km range, around town these cars might beat a diesel but not on the motorway

GeneHunt

colm_mcm wrote: »

Passat?

I do agree with you though, non German saloons aren’t selling.

And even the Germans are starting to move away from saloons to a hatch-back, sports-back

VW Arteon
Skoda Superb

zilog_jones

Casati wrote: »

The small petrol tank will be a pita for diesel drivers used to a 1200 km range, around town these cars might beat a diesel but not on the motorway

Based on (reliable) US EPA figures, you'd still be getting about 1080 km range on a full tank. Their "highway" figures may be assuming slower speeds, but even assuming a pessimistic 55 MPG @ 120 km/h you're still talking about 1000 km.

My Prius only has a 45 litre tank, and as it's an older model (2012) with older tech it only does about 50 MPG at motorway speeds. I've driven Cork to Belfast and similarly long journeys (about the longest anyone would reasonably do in a day in Ireland) and the tank size has never been an issue.

I think the Camry is a better compromise than the Mondeo anyway.

Casati

zilog_jones wrote: »

Based on (reliable) US EPA figures, you'd still be getting about 1080 km range on a full tank. Their "highway" figures may be assuming slower speeds, but even assuming a pessimistic 55 MPG @ 120 km/h you're still talking about 1000 km.

My Prius only has a 45 litre tank, and as it's an older model (2012) with older tech it only does about 50 MPG at motorway speeds. I've driven Cork to Belfast and similarly long journeys (about the longest anyone would reasonably do in a day in Ireland) and the tank size has never been an issue.

I think the Camry is a better compromise than the Mondeo anyway.

If it gives a real 55mpg then it would change things for sure, might try to rent one next time I’m in the States

colm_mcm

zilog_jones wrote: »

Based on (reliable) US EPA figures, you'd still be getting about 1080 km range on a full tank. Their "highway" figures may be assuming slower speeds, but even assuming a pessimistic 55 MPG @ 120 km/h you're still talking about 1000 km.

My Prius only has a 45 litre tank, and as it's an older model (2012) with older tech it only does about 50 MPG at motorway speeds. I've driven Cork to Belfast and similarly long journeys (about the longest anyone would reasonably do in a day in Ireland) and the tank size has never been an issue.

I think the Camry is a better compromise than the Mondeo anyway.

Nobody’s realistically going to buy the Mondeo to be fair.

zilog_jones

A whopping 20 have been sold in Ireland so far, probably all demos...

scooby77

Toyota to release prices and spec for new 2019 Auris/Camry/ Rav4 on October 18th. Also launching 4th new model...speculation in this article it'll be Hybrid Corolla. If it gets 2.0 Hybrid might be interested.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/corolla-goes-hybrid-as-toyota-speeds-up-switch-to-petrolelectric-with-four-new-cars-37216672.html

vectra

scooby77 wrote: »

Toyota to release prices and spec for new 2019 Auris/Camry/ Rav4 on October 18th. Also launching 4th new model...speculation in this article it'll be Hybrid Corolla. If it gets 2.0 Hybrid might be interested.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/corolla-goes-hybrid-as-toyota-speeds-up-switch-to-petrolelectric-with-four-new-cars-37216672.html

Nice.
Interested in knowing specs and prices of Camry.

V8 Interceptor

Irish spec Corollas have been shyte. A 1.3 petrol only unless you went auto & a 1.4 diesel.

bazz26

Your typical Irish Corolla driver really didn't want anything else.

Cookie_Monster

Top sepc version here is $50k NZ, 29,000 eur. doubt it'll be anywhere near that cheap though.

scooby77

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Top sepc version here is $50k NZ, 29,000 eur. doubt it'll be anywhere near that cheap though.

Auris or Camry?

colm_mcm

That’s Camry price.
A standard IS300h is $77k in NZ for comparison.

Going on that unscientific basis, that would make a Camry €28k here.

scooby77

colm_mcm wrote: »

That’s Camry price.
A standard IS300h is $77k in NZ for comparison.

Going on that unscientific basis, that would make a Camry €28k here.

Interesting....doubt it be that cheap here unfortunately! Hard to compare exactly but in US basic prius is roughly US$ 3500-5000 cheaper than basic Camry Hybrid. A base prius is €31450 here so ballpark €35000 for base Camry hybrid here? Even that would leave it €2k cheaper than Mondeo Hybrid...would say difference be less!

colm_mcm

I think the Camry used to be €40k here back in the day. That was when stuff like an E Class or even a C Class was a lot more expensive though.

bazz26

Remember that the Lexus ES (which is based on the Camry drive train) is being launched here in December as a 5 Series/E Class rival so will probably start at mid to high 50k. The Camry will have to be a good bit cheaper than that so I'd say it will start at about 36-38k which is still a good bit more expensive than the entry price of the old Avensis.

colm_mcm

Note that the Prius is $27990 in NZ base Camry hybrid is $41k
Base Prius is €31500 here which on that basis would make the base Camry €46k

There’s obviously completely different pricing structure over there. I’d agree with Bazz that it’ll probably be priced late 30s

zilog_jones

It's going to need to be priced competitively with the Mondeo, Passat, Insignia, etc. if they want to sell any here at all.

The Prius is a bit expensive here because it's made in Japan (unlike most Toyotas we get, which are from the UK, France or Turkey) so costs 10% more than something built in the EU, and the base spec isn't too bad. I can't find any evidence the Camry will be built in Europe, but the tariff on Japanese cars should be going soon anyway (don't know when exactly). I don't know what their trade deals with NZ or the US are like, in comparison.

Leonard Hofstadter

If it's mid 30s it won't sell at all. I doubt there are many people out there looking for a 2.5 litre automatic petrol saloon to be honest (even if it's a hybrid), sure even small engined diesel family saloons are getting hard to sell these days, and they're the ones people actually want.

zilog_jones

Sure if it's reliable, economical, and has the all-important chape tax, who cares what's underneath the bonnet? People need to get over this irrational fear of "large" engines and automatic gearboxes. I'd be glad to see the back of shítey Paddy-spec 1.6 diesels.

elperello

colm_mcm wrote: »

Nobody’s realistically going to buy the Mondeo to be fair.

Is the Mondeo Hybrid really that bad or would the demo cars be worth a punt?

JohnBoy26

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Irish spec Corollas have been shyte. A 1.3 petrol only unless you went auto & a 1.4 diesel.

How have they been shyte? You can get the corolla in decent spec and like every other car in the class you can get them in base trim with hubcaps too.

Sure the engine range is limited but the 1.3 is a decent straightforward unit that has less to go wrong compared to the modern turbo 3 cylinder units found in other cars.

JohnBoy26

captainspeed wrote: »

If it's mid 30s it won't sell at all. I doubt there are many people out there looking for a 2.5 litre automatic petrol saloon to be honest (even if it's a hybrid), sure even small engined diesel family saloons are getting hard to sell these days, and they're the ones people actually want.

A reviewer in the states managed to get 50 mpg out of a new camry hybrid which beat all the other competition in the class afaik.

vectra

elperello wrote: »

Is the Mondeo Hybrid really that bad or would the demo cars be worth a punt?

Friend of mine in the UK has one and he finds it very economical
He recently got 603 miles
401 on petrol
203 on battery power.

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

A reviewer in the states managed to get 50 mpg out of a new camry hybrid which beat all the other competition in the class afaik.

And that is 50mpg US gallon = 60.5 UK gallon
Cant complain with that.

V8 Interceptor

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

How have they been shyte? You can get the corolla in decent spec and like every other car in the class you can get them in base trim with hubcaps too. Sure the engine range is limited but the 1.3 is a decent straightforward unit that has less to go wrong compared to the modern turbo 3 cylinder units found in other cars.

I was referring to the engines on offer. The 1.6 is only offered in automatic. I think the 1.3 is underpowered and other cars in the class have more options.

colm_mcm

Friend subscribed to the news thing from Toyota. Base Aura model apparently €39950, Luna and Sol models more.

Good luck selling any.

ofcork

I posted in the hybrid thread Corolla Luna hybrid is over 37k!!

colm_mcm

ofcork wrote: »

I posted in the hybrid thread Corolla Luna hybrid is over 37k!!

Paddy and Dympna won’t like that. That’d be all the SSIA money.

elperello

colm_mcm wrote: »

Paddy and Dympna won’t like that. That’d be all the SSIA money.

You could be right.

Having pushed up the price of very mediocre cars to 30k they are not satisfied and are going for 40k.

There must be a limit to peoples desperation to have a new plate.

Atlantic Dawn

colm_mcm wrote: »

Friend subscribed to the news thing from Toyota. Base Aura model apparently €39950, Luna and Sol models more.

Good luck selling any.

It's €41480 for the base model Lexus IS300h, can't see anyone in their right mind spending €39950 on a Camry.

ofcork

I thought they would keep a bigger gap price wise as the Lexus is perceived as being more prestigious.

TBi

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's €41480 for the base model Lexus IS300h, can't see anyone in their right mind spending €39950 on a Camry.

The Camry is a bigger car but i agree with you totally. They are in a different league.

GustavoFring

New IS is in the offing. They're going to push that up in price.

mr c

iirc Camry was 23k in 1996 ?
cant see them selling many at the price if above
i was also thinking hard to get avensis drivers in to a bigger car size wise
good buy down the line when they drop id think