Toyota is bringing back Camry and discontinuing Avensis

bazz26

Good luck Toyota trying to sell a 40k Camry to Bridget and Eamon who want to trade up from their 10th Avensis. The only ones you will see here are the ones dealers will be forced to take as demos and pre regs by Toyota Ireland.

As for a 37k Corolla hybrid, good luck with that too. Coincidently I see Honda launched a diesel saloon version of the 10th generation Civic a few months back. I can see them taking a good few Corolla/Avensis customers with that car, clever move there Honda.

PaulKK

mr c wrote: »

iirc Camry was 23k in 1996 ?
cant see them selling many at the price if above
i was also thinking hard to get avensis drivers in to a bigger car size wise
good buy down the line when they drop id think

23k in 1996 is roughly 42k now allowing for average 2.8% inflation. It's 22 years ago after all. You could probably buy a house for under 70k then too.

MTBD

bazz26 wrote: »

Good luck Toyota trying to sell a 40k Camry to Bridget and Eamon who want to trade up from their 10th Avensis. The only ones you will see here are the ones dealers will be forced to take as demos and pre regs by Toyota Ireland.

As for a 37k Corolla hybrid, good luck with that too. Coincidently I see Honda launched a diesel saloon version of the 10th generation Civic a few months back. I can see them taking a good few Corolla/Avensis customers with that car, clever move there Honda.

I don't really agree with this.

My parents have been driving C-classes since 2000. The only reason they haven't bought a Camry is because they were discontinued (and the one around in 2000 wasn't the nicest). All the non premium manufacturers stopped making their high end cars around the same time. They wanted something nicer than an Avensis but didn't want to break the bank. So ended up with a C Class which to be fair have been faultless.

I think there should be plenty of people who still want a high end Toyota. They are better cars than most of the premium European stuff really. The IS is a fine car but it's a size down. The Camry is GS sized. And in my opinion the Camry is much better value for money than something like a 5 series or base E-class.

How many people have had bad experiences with BMWs, Audis and Mercs at this stage? A premium Toyota will surely be a welcome option to a lot of people who are sick of Euro ****e.

illumin

Here's a pic of toyota's new price list (sorry it's a bit blurry)

ofcork

Something going on with the corolla pricing the 37k odd price for the luna hybrid is now gone from the link they sent.

0lddog

Toyota prepare to take advantage of pricing power post Brexit ?

Cookie_Monster

41k for base model :eek::eek::eek:
thats the same in euro as it is in dollars over here, or about 70% more expensive

0lddog

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

thats the same in euro as it is in dollars over here, or about 70% more expensive

Nah! at present €1 buy $1.15. So maybe not that far off


Do Toyota actually make Camry in the US ?

Esel

0lddog wrote: »

Nah! at present €1 buy $1.15. So maybe not that far off


Do Toyota actually make Camry in the US ?

Could be Canadian or Australian dollars ...

elperello

New Zealand by location indicator.

bazz26

MTBD wrote: »

I don't really agree with this.

My parents have been driving C-classes since 2000. The only reason they haven't bought a Camry is because they were discontinued (and the one around in 2000 wasn't the nicest). All the non premium manufacturers stopped making their high end cars around the same time. They wanted something nicer than an Avensis but didn't want to break the bank. So ended up with a C Class which to be fair have been faultless.

I think there should be plenty of people who still want a high end Toyota. They are better cars than most of the premium European stuff really. The IS is a fine car but it's a size down. The Camry is GS sized. And in my opinion the Camry is much better value for money than something like a 5 series or base E-class.

How many people have had bad experiences with BMWs, Audis and Mercs at this stage? A premium Toyota will surely be a welcome option to a lot of people who are sick of Euro ****e.

So answer this, if people are so sick of Euro **** as you put it, then why did Toyota stop selling the Camry 20 years ago and the likes of the 5 Series, A6 and E Class are huge sellers? Because of poor sales, a few Irish people might get a boner for a high spec Toyota but the Camry was withdrawn from Europe because they didn't sell well enough. people wanted more than just a big old reliable coach on wheels.

And we already get premium Toyotas, they are called Lexus. Why are they not outselling their European counterparts? Because alot of people want something more than just reliability and value for money when choosing a car.

JamesTom

Often got a boner softened in the back of the old fells Camry years ago by my neighbor Sinead.

bazz26

Some girls have low or no standards.:pac:

Leonard Hofstadter

€41k for a basic Camry? Are they off their fecking rocker? And €27k for the cheapest new Corolla :eek:? Ford, Skoda and VW won't have anything to worry about that's for sure.

I mean, you could get a brand new 3 series for that kind of money (and not even a poverty spec 316d either) and they're actually fairly decently equipped these days, plus they still come with a diesel engine and a manual gearbox for Paddy and Mary as well.

PaulKK

MTBD wrote: »

How many people have had bad experiences with BMWs, Audis and Mercs at this stage? A premium Toyota will surely be a welcome option to a lot of people who are sick of Euro ****e.

Significantly less than those who have positive experiences with them.

Whatever about anyone's loyalty to Toyota, at that pricing it's up against the likes of the superb, passat, C class, 3 series and A4.

It's hard to see it stealing many sales from those stalwarts.

Funnily enough the 2.5 in it could put off a lot of your typical Irish buyers who would think the engine is "too big".

ShadowHearth

The price hike is fecking huge, no doubt about it and it wont help toyota.

Just out of curiosity lads. What size of a car we talking about with Camry? Shouldn't it be compared more to 5 series, s60, e class, passat?
As some people compare its price point to 3 series, but surely camry was/is way bigger then that?

elperello

About the same as a Superb.
Smaller than a 3 series but that roundel has a certain cachet !

Skylinehead

elperello wrote: »

About the same as a Superb.
Smaller than a 3 series but that roundel has a certain cachet !

Uh, Suberbs are bigger than 3 series in every single way!

Leonard Hofstadter

The new 3 series coming next year is actually bigger than the Avensis! It's almost the size of the E39 5 series now.

punisher5112

elperello wrote: »

About the same as a Superb.
Smaller than a 3 series but that roundel has a certain cachet !

It's a 5 series size.

3 is tiny compared to it.

bazz26

ShadowHearth wrote: »

The price hike is fecking huge, no doubt about it and it wont help toyota.

Just out of curiosity lads. What size of a car we talking about with Camry? Shouldn't it be compared more to 5 series, s60, e class, passat?
As some people compare its price point to 3 series, but surely camry was/is way bigger then that?

The Camry shares a platform with the new Lexus ES which replaces the old GS which competed with the E Class, 5 Series and A6. The problem is that big cars from none premium brands, not just Toyota, have always been poor sellers in Europe which is why they stopped making them.

The Camry despite being bigger is a replacement for the Avensis. The other problem is that Avensis sales have declined for the last decade because people moved to SUVs and crossovers instead. The funny thing is that the Avensis had a sub 30k starting price and sales of it still declined so selling a bigger car costing 10k more just seems bizarre. However the Camry is produced and sold in other parts of the world so it's still cheaper for Toyota to just offer it in Europe than developing an entire new car in a declining segment just for Europe which the Avensis was.

I predict that in a couple of years we will hear quietly that Toyota will be deleting it from their line up in Europe due to poor sales.

elperello

Nixonbot wrote: »

Uh, Suberbs are bigger than 3 series in every single way!

I do know that
Thanks anyway.

elperello

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's a 5 series size.

3 is tiny compared to it.

Point is you won't get a 5 series for Camry money but you will get a 3 series.

And the roundel on the 3 series is very prominent

punisher5112

elperello wrote: »

Point is you won't get a 5 series for Camry money but you will get a 3 series.

And the roundel on the 3 series is very prominent

You will get a hybrid or phev bm for the Camry money??

elperello

punisher5112 wrote: »

You will get a hybrid or phev bm for the Camry money??

Yes you can.

https://www.bmw.ie/en/all-models.html

colm_mcm

elperello wrote: »

Yes you can.

https://www.bmw.ie/en/all-models.html

Which one?

punisher5112

elperello wrote: »

Yes you can.

https://www.bmw.ie/en/all-models.html

Eh?????

elperello

Sorry lads.

I missed that it was only hybrid/phev you were talking about.

I was thinking about the little electric one . It comes in cheaper than a Camry but in all fairness I couldn't see a Camry customer buying one.

Honestly not too well up on that sector of the market but I suppose I will be before long !

Atlantic Dawn

The Camry, decent looking spec inside but the boot looks small...

https://twitter.com/ToyotaLiffeyVal/status/1059394908711198721

mickdw

From what ive seen the camry looks like a nice improvement over the outgoing avensis which I hate.
I can't see it selling too many but maybe the Honda accord buyer might be looking for something to buy.
On a related note, Toyota seem to have made a very cool looking rav 4.

tretorn

Im thinking of trading a diesel Rav4 in for the new Rav4 but have just discovered the new Rav4 Hybrid is automatic only.

Also I dont know about pre ordering it before I have driven it.

Im not sure what to do now.

Atlantic Dawn

tretorn wrote: »

Im thinking of trading a diesel Rav4 in for the new Rav4 but have just discovered the new Rav4 Hybrid is automatic only.

Also I dont know about pre ordering it before I have driven it.

Im not sure what to do now.

All hybrids currently on sale are automatic only, give it a try, you might actually prefer it.

mickdw

Isn't there a massive shift in the market when Toyota release their large family car with a 2.5 petrol engine. Hybrid or not, this can only be a move for the better considering some are going to 1.0L turbos

bazz26

But this is Ireland where your typical driver especially Toyota driver will be thinking "Jesus sure what would I want a big engine like that for?". The outgoing Rav4 had a 2.5 litre petrol engine in the hybrid version and didn't sell very well here. Then you have the insurance companies who will probably class them as sports/performance cars. Same goes with them being automatic/CVT only, some people here have the mindset that automatics are only for American tourists or those who cannot drive a manual.

colm_mcm

mickdw wrote: »

From what ive seen the camry looks like a nice improvement over the outgoing avensis which I hate.
I can't see it selling too many but maybe the Honda accord buyer might be looking for something to buy.
On a related note, Toyota seem to have made a very cool looking rav 4.

It’s not really a replacement for the Avensis. It’s like saying “we’re out of oranges, here’s a tennis ball”

mickdw

Ya but for the average Toyota buyer, this is the full size saloon replacing the full size saloon. The price might be a stumbling block though.

bazz26

Honda cleverly launched the new Civic in saloon form here recently and offer a diesel version too. I can see that taking more current Corolla/Avensis owners than the new Camry. The Civic saloon is not far off the size of the defunct Avensis and a top spec diesel Civic saloon is coming in at around 32k which is about 10k cheaper than the Camry.

V8 Interceptor

mickdw wrote: »

Ya but for the average Toyota buyer, this is the full size saloon replacing the full size saloon.

Mid size dude

I think the Camry will be a fine bus........... I wouldn't spend €40k+ ish on a new one but second hand they'd make huge sense for lots of folk and be a very decent thing to smoke around in compared to a diesel.

zilog_jones

tretorn wrote: »

Im thinking of trading a diesel Rav4 in for the new Rav4 but have just discovered the new Rav4 Hybrid is automatic only.

Also I dont know about pre ordering it before I have driven it.

Im not sure what to do now.

Take the current model for a test drive - the new one will only be more refined and more efficient (totally new engine and drivetrain), but will basically function in the same way. There's really nothing to be afraid of with automatics, especially the Toyota hybrids - they just work, and are by no means unresponsive.

bazz26 wrote: »

The outgoing Rav4 had a 2.5 litre petrol engine in the hybrid version and didn't sell very well here..

The problem with the outgoing model was that it was designed as designed for yanks really, as an alternative to the 3-litre V6 competition over there. The fuel economy was way off the mark by European standards - 38 MPG (imp.) combined in US EPA tests. But the new one should be efficient enough to be competitive here - which is now more of a priority for Toyota as they're not making small diesels any more (their previous solution for the European market).

Leonard Hofstadter

The previous RAV4 was four cylinder only over there as well. The reason the hybrid didn't sell well over here is because it was so much more expensive than the diesel, the new one is a few grand cheaper.

Casati

I saw a few of these Camry’s in the flesh in the States and they look cheap, nothing imaginative or premium about the styling. For a full size car the boot is also too small. Cant see myself getting out of my Superb to get one

The new Accord (U.S) I think is way nicer liking and I’d say it would sell very well here, Honda actually are getting more interesting all the time

The biggest competitor against the Camry will probably be the new Rav 4 which doesn’t look any less premium or smaller but is quite a lot cheaper and will still have the nice hybrid option that will appeal to a lot of folks that diesel doesn’t suit

DaveyDave

mickdw wrote: »

Isn't there a massive shift in the market when Toyota release their large family car with a 2.5 petrol engine. Hybrid or not, this can only be a move for the better considering some are going to 1.0L turbos

What large saloon cars have small turbo engines in them? I only see 1 litre turbos in hatchbacks and hatchback sized crossovers.

Casati

DaveyDave wrote: »

What large saloon cars have small turbo engines in them? I only see 1 litre turbos in hatchbacks and hatchback sized crossovers.

Mondeo comes with a 1.0 - though not sold in Ireland in petrol at all

TBi

DaveyDave wrote: »

What large saloon cars have small turbo engines in them? I only see 1 litre turbos in hatchbacks and hatchback sized crossovers.

BMW 3 series can be bought with a 1.5l three cylinder.

tretorn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

All hybrids currently on sale are automatic only, give it a try, you might actually prefer it.

Its a 2.5l engine size too.

I have young adults driving my car with full licences, i Think the insurance would rocket.

Toyota is advertising these cars with a woman saying she only refuels every six weeks. I think these adds are misleading, in reality would I use much less fuel with my existing 2 litre Rav than the new hybrid 2.5 litre one.

TBi

tretorn wrote: »

Its a 2.5l engine size too.

I have young adults driving my car with full licences, i Think the insurance would rocket.

They treat hybrids differently. I have an IS300h with a 2.5l engine. The insurance quote for it was less than a 1.6 diesel honda civic, actually it was cheaper than all the cars i was looking at bar the 1.8l hybrid prius.

Call up and ask before excluding it.

grogi

TBi wrote: »

They treat hybrids differently. I have an IS300h with a 2.5l engine. The insurance quote for it was less than a 1.6 diesel honda civic, actually it was cheaper than all the cars i was looking at bar the 1.8l hybrid prius.

Call up and ask before excluding it.

Today, when you can have a 1.0 130PS, the capacity is not important anymore. With the wake of small turbocharged petrols, the insurance companies changed the way they look at engine capacity.

vectra

As for insurance.
My current car is a Mondeo ( family car I would class it as )
2.0/150 diesel €830 full comp.

I can insure a 2.0/280 bhp Petrol Superb dsg 4x4 for just over €500
a 2.0/190 petrol dsg Arteon R Line for literally the same as the superb.
Just can't figure how these insurers work at all,
I think based on this, the Hybrid will be cheaper than a diesel to insure.

V8 Interceptor

Casati wrote: »

For a full size car

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Mid size dude

.