Being told off for talking at work

APMagic

Hi,
I have worked in this retail job for a year and a half as a stop gap. New managers have come on board in the past 6 months and making working environment unpleasant. They are blaming the staff for the not getting high enough profits. This company is privately owned and sell local produce. Until these new managers got employed suddenly they had an issue with staff talking.
We are undergoing one to one meetings with two managers about our performance. The common issue they appear to have is talking to other colleagues.  We do our jobs such as stock checks and date rotation. We continuously work to our best ability despite the building has no air con and the place reaches 24 degrees C in the summer. We never talking and “chat” when a customer is waiting to be served. We are not allowed to talk to one another when there are no customers.
Being told off as if I am at school and punished but doing not so nice jobs is really upsetting and isolating. I have never had a job like this. Instead of encouraging staff they find a new rule or job to split us up so we don’t speak. It feels like bullying and power kick than management. They have started writing down times and dates of who spoke to who and when.
Ironically the managers spend 2 hours “chatting in the office”.
I am considering leaving,
Any advice would be appreciated. So I am armed before this meeting happens.

uck51js9zml2yt

Have you asked them why they are taking that approach?

_Brian

Their gaff, their rules.
Get in line or leave.

Peatys

Leave

APMagic

Darian Better Maiden wrote: »

Have you asked them why they are taking that approach?

No. That is something I will ask them. a colleague got quoted "customer service first". Which we have always done. I have gone above and beyond for customers, and get a lot of praise from them. I have even got a customer I was serving stand up for me because they didnt like the tone my manager was treating me.

eviestevie123

Oh my god those managers sound horrible! To treat you all so punitively is really poor on their part. What you describe is perfectly reeasonable that yous talk when there are no customers there and get on with your work even if there is chat now and again. And then to split yous up purposely like that is also a rotten thing to do. And although I don't know the situation, it sounds like complete rubbish and kind of pathetic to blame their "poor sales" on the frontline staff. I highly doubt it has anything to do with you guys (if it is even the case at all).

I also think it sounds unfair to have two managers against one employee like that in a meeting. I thought that you would be entitled to have someone with you ie. another staff member or union rep present during such meetings.

Do you guys have any union or can you join one? Maybe mandate?

I think their behaviour is crap and they shouldn't treat people like that. They could very well end up losing staff if they continue along that course of action. All jobs can get repetitive and lifting your head to chat now and again is necessary I think and good for moral! I'm not sure if I've been much help or not but thought I'd offer some feedback on the issue anywho. I hope you can get some good advice on the topic.

Xterminator

Hi Op

If you a few co-workers join a union, you could see a difference in attitude from management. That's not a bad idea. Things like health and safety at work, (24 degree heat) workplace bullying, union representation etc can all be assisted. It does help if a few of you join together.

Peregrinus

From your description, it sounds like very poor management. This is a very difficult problem to solve from below.

You can either keep your head down and hope that this behaviour will cease when they realise it isn't working to improve profitability, or you can start looking around for better opportunities in more well-managed places elsewhere. Myself, I'd be doing the latter.

davo10

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi Op

If you a few co-workers join a union, you could see a difference in attitude from management. That's not a bad idea. Things like health and safety at work, (24 degree heat) workplace bullying, union representation etc can all be assisted. It does help if a few of you join together.

Management do not have to recognise the union.

shakeitoff

Just leave tbh.

Hitman3000

As suggested by others unless the pay is excellent, leave. Plenty of retail work available.

Avatar MIA

What the management are asking you to do, or not do in this case is within their remit. Now, I think it's bad management if all the other jobs are being done, and there are no customers in the shop. However, what you think needs to be done to get the shop presentable/arranged may differ to what the manager/owner thinks.


Strangely enough, there is no maximum temperature stipulated in H&S law, so it being over a certain temperature is in itself not an issue, especially if it's only a few days a year where it hits 24 degrees.



With that said, as there is near full employment I'd personally take a dim view IF the managers were simply on a power trip and I would suggest moving to another employer.

Rechuchote

It does sound like horrible management.

But… just to offer a counter-thought for a moment, as a customer I find it kind of off-putting if staff in a shop are chatting to each other and then turning to me as if to say "Oh… are you there?" and serving me, then immediately turning back to their colleagues to continue their more important chat.

Have the management perhaps had customers saying this to them?

APMagic

Rechuchote wrote: »

It does sound like horrible management.

But… just to offer a counter-thought for a moment, as a customer I find it kind of off-putting if staff in a shop are chatting to each other and then turning to me as if to say "Oh… are you there?" and serving me, then immediately turning back to their colleagues to continue their more important chat.

Have the management perhaps had customers saying this to them?

I understand where you are coming from. And I agree. However we have always made a point of a customer being present "can I help you?" or if you are at a till, I dont talk to colleagues because I am engaging with the customer and also the till system means I struggle to multitask, so I concentrate on the work at hand.

APMagic

Avatar MIA wrote: »

What the management are asking you to do, or not do in this case is within their remit. Now, I think it's bad management if all the other jobs are being done, and there are no customers in the shop. However, what you think needs to be done to get the shop presentable/arranged may differ to what the manager/owner thinks.


Strangely enough, there is no maximum temperature stipulated in H&S law, so it being over a certain temperature is in itself not an issue, especially if it's only a few days a year where it hits 24 degrees.



With that said, as there is near full employment I'd personally take a dim view IF the managers were simply on a power trip and I would suggest moving to another employer.

I know I did look into the max temp law, thats why they haven't put money into the building to make it more comfortable. We were asked to do a survey recently and ignored the comments. I have had many customers complaining about the heat too. But it falls on deaf ears. 
Also funny enough one of the managers is in charge of arranging displays and will not let us touch them. If we do something she will find issue with it anyways. So we have in the end stepped back and said you can do it the way you want, because we wont do it correct anyways.

APMagic

mikemac2 wrote: »

APMagic wrote: »

Hi,
I have worked in this retail job for a year and a half as a stop gap. New managers have come on board in the past 6 months and making working environment unpleasant. They are blaming the staff for the not getting high enough profits.

I’ve a feeling this is coming from the owner and the managers are just carrying out instructions

Are you above minimum wage? Maybe they want you all to leave and get in new staff

They are losing staff. They struggle to get anyone to apply for the jobs. The last person hey hired was in their 40s. I quite honestly if some of us go, good luck finding people who want to do the job.

tom1ie

davo10 wrote: »

Management do not have to recognise the union.

They will have to recognise the union if every member of staff gives them notice that they will picket outside the premises.

tom1ie

_Brian wrote: »

Their gaff, their rules.
Get in line or leave.

Would you stop! This isn’t the Victorian era! Workers have rights and they are entitled to be in a workplace that is free from harassment and bullying. This is laid out in the Shaw act, and plenty of acts after. Would you like to work under these conditions?

Bandana boy

Not allowing chat while stocking shelves seems extreme but you could argue that doing a stock check and talking at the same time will lead to mistakes , talking at tills too while there is no customers seems fine but conversation never stops mid sentence when a customer arrives .

Playing devil's advocate maybe repeat infringements on the cases when it's important not to talk has led to a zero tolerance policy

Would certainly be the easiest to enforce rather than taking/arguing every case on its merits

_Brian

tom1ie wrote: »

Would you stop! This isn’t the Victorian era! Workers have rights and they are entitled to be in a workplace that is free from harassment and bullying. This is laid out in the Shaw act, and plenty of acts after. Would you like to work under these conditions?

Your only getting one side here.
Like a previous poster said there is nothing as off putting as workers taking away all the time and customers feeling like an inconvenience to them.

The charting could be ongoing banter and people much the feeling bullied, cutting it back in an effort to stop it.

I don’t believe managers would out of the blue decide it would be great crack to hassle everyone about ordinary chatting in the workplace. There is something behind this push and just because OP mightn’t know what is going on doesn’t mean something isn’t behind it.

I use an office at work and to be honest I wish my boss would do the same. People having full blown conversations about personal stuff and bullying conversations about people. I was on for an hour one day just after lunch and had to endure two “ladies” discussing how sweaty and sticky they were after a lunchtime gym session and they wished they’d had a shower

seamus

This is probably constructive dismissal.

Company not making enough money, new managers come in, make the environment unbearable. Fairly textbook; they need to cut their workforce but don't want to pay redundancy.

In all honesty, OP you're too low down the rung to make a difference here. For your own sake you're better off moving on.

Larbre34

tom1ie wrote: »

Would you stop! This isn’t the Victorian era! Workers have rights and they are entitled to be in a workplace that is free from harassment and bullying. This is laid out in the Shaw act, and plenty of acts after. Would you like to work under these conditions?

Managing staff and enforcing a policy of concentrating on the work and not talking on the floor etc, is not bullying or harassment, its just the job, so long as its the approach taken with all the staff.

Mis-identifying certain workplace norms as bullying and harassment does a major disservice to people genuinely suffering that in their work.

Yes most people wouldnt like it, but Ive heard first hand what is expected of staff in Apple in terms of presenteeism and I wouldn't fancy that either, so i dont plan to seek a job with them.

smalltalk

Stop people talking, that will drive profits through the roof going forward of course:)Best thing that you can do is walk get out because if that's the best idea that these hotshots can come up with the place will probably close anyway.
F*#*ing Spoofers

davo10

seamus wrote: »

This is probably constructive dismissal.

Company not making enough money, new managers come in, make the environment unbearable. Fairly textbook; they need to cut their workforce but don't want to pay redundancy.

In all honesty, OP you're too low down the rung to make a difference here. For your own sake you're better off moving on.

I wish people would stop posting nonsense about constructive dismissal. It might be petty and self defeating to ask staff to focus on their job/customers and not to chat with each other, but that is not CD.

shakeitoff

Staff talking to each other would not be a bad thing to me, there is a line though. A decent person would know how to draw the line between chatting between them and reacting accordingly when a customer is around. I personally find it awkward if staff are too attentive in a retail environment. Everything is there, if I need ya I will come to you. As far as I'm concerned, retail staff like servers perform when the going gets tough, what they do in down time as long as they can step up to the plate when it's back to the walls is what matters.

Avatar MIA

seamus wrote: »

This is probably constructive dismissal.

Asking staff not to chat during work hours? I doubt it, is there any precedent? Genuine question.

Rechuchote

APMagic wrote: »

They are losing staff. They struggle to get anyone to apply for the jobs. The last person hey hired was in their 40s.

So old??? :eek:

5rtytry56

Rechuchote wrote: »

So old??? :eek:

So since I'm over 40 I shouldn't have followed this thread at all.

So


/Unfollow

_Brian

Couldn’t see this being stretched to constructive dismissal if it’s being applied to everyone evenhandedly

Avatar MIA

Rechuchote wrote: »

So old??? :eek:

Any Crypt Keeper roles going? :pac:

seamus

davo10 wrote: »

I wish people would stop posting nonsense about constructive dismissal. It might be petty and self defeating to ask staff to focus on their job/customers and not to chat with each other, but that is not CD.

Sure, I meant it more in terms of their intent, not what it actually is. I should probably have avoided calling it CD, since that's a specific thing.

Nevertheless it sounds to me like the new managers' intention is to make the workplace so unbearable that there'll be high staff attrition.