Being told off for talking at work

dr.fuzzenstein

seamus wrote: »

This is probably constructive dismissal.

Company not making enough money, new managers come in, make the environment unbearable. Fairly textbook; they need to cut their workforce but don't want to pay redundancy.

In all honesty, OP you're too low down the rung to make a difference here. For your own sake you're better off moving on.

I fully agree with this one. This has been a fine tradition in a lot of workplaces I have been in in Ireland, don't want to pay people off? Bully them out the door.
As for the attitude of "their gaff, their rules", if anyone in any workplace lays this line on you, the correct answer is "no it's not your rules, workplace rules as defined by labor law, so hop on sunshine".
It's not fcuking slavery anmore. Employers can't just for the crack enforce silly and petty rules. So as long as the gaff is in Ireland, it's those rules or jog on.
As an emplyee you must NEVER be a shrinking violet. Don't say "Oh woe betide unto me, they might be mad at me when I do something they don't like!".
As soon as you're a doormat, you're toast.
You got to have to stomach to pull THEM up and say "not like this me old flower".

Odelay

seamus wrote: »

Sure, I meant it more in terms of their intent, not what it actually is. I should probably have avoided calling it CD, since that's a specific thing.

Nevertheless it sounds to me like the new managers' intention is to make the workplace so unbearable that there'll be high staff attrition.

Sounds to me like the manager wants them to get on with thier job and focus on the task at hand.

shakeitoff

Odelay wrote: »

Sounds to me like the manager wants them to get on with thier job and focus on the task at hand.

They need a sense of perspective. It's selling clothes, not open heart surgery.

dr.fuzzenstein

Odelay wrote: »

Sounds to me like the manager wants them to get on with thier job and focus on the task at hand.

If a manager says "alright, enough chict chat now, get some work done", that is acceptable.
But if a boss says "as a new work directive no conversation whatsoever is allowed at the workplace" there are 2 points.

1: This is not a Russian Gulag and this rule is pretty much against worker's rights.
So this rule cannot ever exist.

2: If this rule doesn't exist, the same then goes for any "inofficial" versipons of that rule, i.e. it is null and void.

So you cannot fall foul of a rule that does not exist and cannot exist.
It cannot be enforced and any disciplinary action based on this rule is illegal.
So in other words, ignore this "rule" and if the company tries to enforce this fallacy, one solicitor's letter will see an end to this joke of a rule.
They'll fall back in line fairly sharpish after that.

So much for "their gaff, their rules". This tomfoolery is easily sorted.
And I wouldn't worry about any "career" implications, it's a fcuking retail job. Sometimes toes need to be trodden on for up their own hole managers to get the point.

tom1ie

Odelay wrote: »

Sounds to me like the manager wants them to get on with thier job and focus on the task at hand.

Sounds to me like the managers a bully who is on a power trip and ignorant of workplace labor law rules.
The op should either move to a different job or seek union help.

lawred2

_Brian wrote: »

Their gaff, their rules.
Get in line or leave.

you think employed managers own the gaff?

davo10

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If a manager says "alright, enough chict chat now, get some work done", that is acceptable.
But if a boss says "as a new work directive no conversation whatsoever is allowed at the workplace" there are 2 points.

1: This is not a Russian Gulag and this rule is pretty much against worker's rights.
So this rule cannot ever exist.

2: If this rule doesn't exist, the same then goes for any "inofficial" versipons of that rule, i.e. it is null and void.

So you cannot fall foul of a rule that does not exist and cannot exist.
It cannot be enforced and any disciplinary action based on this rule is illegal.
So in other words, ignore this "rule" and if the company tries to enforce this fallacy, one solicitor's letter will see an end to this joke of a rule.
They'll fall back in line fairly sharpish after that.

So much for "their gaff, their rules". This tomfoolery is easily sorted.
And I wouldn't worry about any "career" implications, it's a fcuking retail job. Sometimes toes need to be trodden on for up their own hole managers to get the point.

You are wrong on both points.

APMagic

Many thanks for all your advice. I completely understand where you are coming from with the talking in regards to work. However we do focus on work and pass the time of day with the odd chat. 
One supervisor we all get on well with has the short straw. But if they would be nice and say "could you do this for me please?" or as a joke "come on lets get cracking". We work extra hard to support the supervisor because they are understanding and care about us too. 

Mangers. One manager yells from half way down the shop to break up a conversation. Which often is work related I might add. I have been told off for talking to a colleague by describing me as someone having chit chat at a bus stop. When there are busy days I work hard and dont have time to talk. The other day I got the phrase "enjoying hard work?". I am constantly looking over my shoulder in case they appear and tell me off again. 
When the manager isnt there we all relax and get the work done still. I have brought up with the other manager that I felt I was being targeted a lot. Had an awkward one to one chat with the other manager and they backed off for a couple of weeks.
Oh and one day was so bad I ended up in tears at the end of the day. It honestly feels like a jealousy kick for the managers because us staff support each other.

APMagic

5rtytry56 wrote: »

Rechuchote wrote: »

So old??? :eek:

So since I'm over 40 I shouldn't have followed this thread at all.

So


/Unfollow

Sorry was in relation to pay. Over minimum wage. Pay doesnt seem to be so much the factor as far as I am aware.

APMagic

APMagic wrote: »

5rtytry56 wrote: »

Rechuchote wrote: »

So old??? :eek:

So since I'm over 40 I shouldn't have followed this thread at all.

So


/Unfollow

Sorry was in relation to pay. Over minimum wage. Pay doesnt seem to be so much the factor as far as I am aware.

So bullying us out of job for reducing staff and pay is hard to tell.

Franz Von Peppercorn

smalltalk wrote: »

Stop people talking, that will drive profits through the roof going forward of course,😀 Best thing that you can do is walk get out because if that's the best idea that these hotshots can come up with the place will probably close anyway.
F*#*ing Spoofers

Yes it’s bully boy management for management’s sake. The way to make retail workers more productive is to get more customers. That would take work.

Avatar MIA

APMagic wrote: »

So bullying us out of job for reducing staff and pay is hard to tell.

Sorry, not following your post, were you talking to someone while typing?


Do you mean that the company you are working for have reduced staff and reduced your wages?


Neither would be considered bullying, but contributing factors as to staying.

dr.fuzzenstein

davo10 wrote: »

You are wrong on both points.

I could not find any mention whatsoever on any workplace that enforces total silence by any kind of an official rule. I only found a case where SIPTU are helping Polish workers because they where banned from speaking Polish at any time and place at work and that this was being brought before the equality authority.
I can only guess that the only reason I can't find a single case of this, is because no employer, unless you're working for Doctor Evil or Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, is batsh*t insane enough to make an official rule of total silence at the workplace.
If you do have a case of this, I would genuinely be intrigued to hear of this. If only to put a tattoo of that employers name on my arm so there is absolutely zero chance I ever end up working for these fruitcakes by mistake.

davo10

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I could not find any mention whatsoever on any workplace that enforces total silence by any kind of an official rule. I only found a case where SIPTU are helping Polish workers because they where banned from speaking Polish at any time and place at work and that this was being brought before the equality authority.
I can only guess that the only reason I can't find a single case of this, is because no employer, unless you're working for Doctor Evil or Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, is batsh*t insane enough to make an official rule of total silence at the workplace.
If you do have a case of this, I would genuinely be intrigued to hear of this. If only to put a tattoo of that employers name on my arm so there is absolutely zero chance I ever end up working for these fruitcakes by mistake.

A bit over dramatic. The employer isn't enforcing total silence, they just don't want the staff standing around chatting to each other. It's a bit stupid, but it's not illegal, hence why there is no cases about it.

Rechuchote

a) Join a union - Mandate - all of you. Get the union in to negotiate calmly with the management.

b) If the management don't want you talking to each other about work-related questions, put all those questions through the managers:

"Can you tell me what the stock level of canned tomatoes is, please"

"Susan should be able to tell you that."

"Do I have your permission to ask Susan that question?"

This should fairly swiftly make the managers fairly sick of their nonsense - but only if you do it in a polite, pleasant way.

OMM 0000

Manager here.

I haven't read all the replies.

I have no problem with my team relaxing, ****ing around, going for beers, working from home, whatever, when things are going well, but when things are going badly I expect them to knuckle down, concentrate, and get the job done.

But it goes both ways.

If your employer won't give you any flexibility (i.e. chilled when things are going well) then that sucks.

greasepalm

I drop into a newly opened veg shop and could not believe the banter and craic that was happening from day one,even its a father and son shop with extra staff and plenty of chat between everyone.The amount of turnover and stock has the suppliers flabbergasted has exceeded initial projections.
P S lovely big fridge in shop keeps the whole place cool.Good relations between all maybe i might invest in one of those portable artic air devices for next week?

APMagic

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Manager here.

I haven't read all the replies.

I have no problem with my team relaxing, ****ing around, going for beers, working from home, whatever, when things are going well, but when things are going badly I expect them to knuckle down, concentrate, and get the job done.

But it goes both ways.

If your employer won't give you any flexibility (i.e. chilled when things are going well) then that sucks.

I agree with you there. I can add another to this list now I discovered today. Supervisor we get on with is apparently not to chat with us because she is our supervisor. Not allowed to be our friend. 
Explains a lot why we get cold shoulder and not spoken to like a person with the new managers.

greasepalm

I think thats bad imagine you giving a lift somewhere and you ran a red light would she open her mouth and say stop?
Left hand needs to work with right hand to work better.

CrankyHaus

OP make a confidential report of the excessive temperature to the HSA. They have people who attend workplaces to investigate reported unsafe working conditions and can issue improvement requests to management.

Are you working there more than a year? If so then I'd advise you to have some fun putting manners on these tyrants, as lawful dismissal would require them to go through an onerous procedure that they'll probably mess up.

If you're talking out of their earshot and they shout at you to stop just claim you were discussing a work related matter with your colleague and smile in their face.

Unionising is a good idea too.

Rechuchote

Unionise.

Don't behave like a bollocks. You may win, but you'll find it hard to get work again.

Your behaviour needs to be a higher standard than the managers.

doolox

Would be a way to go. Also the queries up the chain of command and back down to a colleague would be another form of protest.

Another one would be to be very sparing in your conversations with customers explaining that it is new policy to avoid unnecessary talk on the premises.

Their feedback to managers should see a large cop on pill being swallowed.

Joining a union is very good advice especially in an Irish owned and run outfit or one ran by our near and dear neighbours, both communities being renowned for their sterling record on workers rights and job-place enrichment....NOT!

Another protest would be to hum "Silence is Golden" or "Sound of Silence" or the song "You say is best when you say nothing at all" in earshot of the managers.
Maybe they'd be too thick to take the hint.

If asked a question by a colleague always preface any reply with "I can't talk now but....". Do this as nauseum until the managers get sick of it and give up their little power trip.

I recall a group of employees being asked for their middle initials by an officious manager compiling a list of employees for some sporting or social event who wanted to come off all posh, the middle initials supplied spelt the words F$£k Off, and were used without the manager realising it until the final list was sent to the printers and came back in many copies..........

Avatar MIA

doolox wrote: »

Another one would be to be very sparing in your conversations with customers explaining that it is new policy to avoid unnecessary talk on the premises.

Underlined is a good reason why some staff need close attention from managers. The bold is sufficient for disciplinary action.

Wanderer2010

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Manager here.

I haven't read all the replies.

I have no problem with my team relaxing, ****ing around, going for beers, working from home, whatever, when things are going well, but when things are going badly I expect them to knuckle down, concentrate, and get the job done.

But it goes both ways.

If your employer won't give you any flexibility (i.e. chilled when things are going well) then that sucks.

Its good that you are a manager who allows some breathing space for your employees and I hope you also don't join your workers for beers as that would just undo all your good work in trying to create a relaxed atmosphere!

OP, this isn't likely to change anytime soon so I would advise you to look around for a different job.

Ginger83

APMagic wrote: »

I agree with you there. I can add another to this list now I discovered today. Supervisor we get on with is apparently not to chat with us because she is our supervisor. Not allowed to be our friend. 
Explains a lot why we get cold shoulder and not spoken to like a person with the new managers.

Just move on, when a place goes with all the divide and conquer **** its best to move on.

shakeitoff

Move on and name and shame.

dr.fuzzenstein

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Its good that you are a manager who allows some breathing space for your employees and I hope you also don't join your workers for beers as that would just undo all your good work in trying to create a relaxed atmosphere!

OP, this isn't likely to change anytime soon so I would advise you to look around for a different job.

I just don't understand the adversarial attitude in workplaces sometimes.
My last place of work had the greatest nights out and it was also because management on every level was there, as drunk as the rest of us.
Usually these nights would end up in the nightclub or Nancy Blakes.
When I went back to Germany I thought it would be much more restrained until the Christmas party. After lunch there was a pot of Jack Daniel's punch in the stove in the canteen and I was brought home by a work colleague at 3 am drunk as a lord.
I love working where I do, because compared to the rest of them I'm normal.
Relations with management don't have to be horrible, tense and adversarial.
Managers who treat their staff that way just don't have a bollocks clue.
A manager is not there to Lord it over his employees "respect my authorota!" style, a manager is a facilitator for his staff who helps them do a good job.

Lux23

They sound like they've been hired to do a job, they haven't a clue how to do. Talking while serving a customer is bad manners, but there is no way a company will increase sales by asking shop assistants not to talk for non-work purposes. What else are they doing to try and increase sales? Marketing, promotions, improvements in the store?