Is landlord responsible?

Cantona's Collars

I'm posting this on behalf of an in-law.
Long story short,LL gave notice that house was going up for sale, tenancy due to end next week. In the process of moving out the tenants found that locks had been changed on the house and sheds.
A lot of moneys worth of tools etc belonging to the tenant were in the sheds and coincidentally the shed where the tools were in was broken into and the tools stolen,the locks were found to be intact and other sheds, equipment belonging to the LL weren't touched. Is the LL responsible as they technically took the stuff 'hostage' by changing locks and not allowing tenant access to remove their stuff?

Jogathon

Have you contacted the guards? What have they advised?

Also, are you referring to the shed where tools were removed with these words?

"the locks were found to be intact"

dudara

The landlord shouldn’t have changed the locks while the tenant was still in possession. How far though that extends as liability to the theft, I don’t know. Legal opinion world probably be required.

Can you give a bit more detail? How long was your in-law a tenant, what length notice did the landlord give and was your in-law within their notice period when the locks were changed?

Cantona's Collars

dudara wrote: »

The landlord shouldn’t have changed the locks while the tenant was still in possession. How far though that extends as liability to the theft, I don’t know. Legal opinion world probably be required.

Can you give a bit more detail? How long was your in-law a tenant, what length notice did the landlord give and was your in-law within their notice period when the locks were changed?

They were told to move by the 1st of July,they found a place and were in the middle of moving. They went to the house earlier this week and found the locks changed on the house and a shed that they were allowed to use. Afaik they lived there a couple of years.
The Guards said it was a civil matter over the LL not allowing them access to the tools but I'm not sure what the story is now that a theft has taken place. If someone had my stuff and it disappeared, I'd be holding them responsible but I'm not sure what the law says.

Cantona's Collars

Jogathon wrote: »

Have you contacted the guards? What have they advised?

Also, are you referring to the shed where tools were removed with these words?

"the locks were found to be intact"

The gardai were notified,the LL had put their own lock on the shed and that was untouched yet all the tools in the shed were taken. At a rough estimate there was about 5k worth of stuff gone.

dudara

A theft is a crime, so that should definitely be reported to the Gardaí.

As the tenant was still in possession of the property, the landlord is wrong to have changed the locks. Straight to the RTB with that one.

godtabh

Did the tenant have insurance? If not tenant is liable.

As above straight to RTB for the locks.

Cantona's Collars

dudara wrote: »

A theft is a crime, so that should definitely be reported to the Gardaí.

As the tenant was still in possession of the property, the landlord is wrong to have changed the locks. Straight to the RTB with that one.

RTB and solicitor notified but the LL is notorious for non compliance with such things. They found out recently that the LL had previous but maybe this time the LL will find they can't trample over people's rights.
The tenants didn't go break the locks and try get their stuff as they were afraid they'd be done for trespass and theft even though it was technically their property and as a result someone else made away with the stuff.

gar32

What about insurance? was there any? Are there photos and receipts for the tools? Has the LL been asked to replace the tools or help with investigation about who stole them?

Cantona's Collars

gar32 wrote: »

What about insurance? was there any? Are there photos and receipts for the tools? Has the LL been asked to replace the tools or help with investigation about who stole them?

LL isn't known for their helpful nature and doesn't care.

Fol20

If a house is broken into or your property is damaged the ll isn’t responsible. If you have insurance, I would look into that Avenue.

If you saying that the ll may have taken your stuff. Then it’s time to get the police involved however without proof you might not be able to do much.

I don’t know why the ll would change locks when your moving out in a week however this would be a discussion with the RTB if you want to Perdue it

Cantona's Collars

Fol20 wrote: »

If a house is broken into or your property is damaged the ll isn’t responsible. If you have insurance, I would look into that Avenue.

If you saying that the ll may have taken your stuff. Then it’s time to get the police involved however without proof you might not be able to do much.

I don’t know why the ll would change locks when your moving out in a week however this would be a discussion with the RTB if you want to Perdue it

The tenants had their own lock on the shed,the LL removed it and put their own one on it.
What makes me very suspicious is that only the tenants and the LL knew what was in the shed. It seemed a very targeted robbery when even more valuable stuff was in other sheds owned by the LL.
As you say, without proof, it's hard to point fingers. But I'd hold the LL responsible for originally refusing access to the shed to remove the stuff. By changing the lock,was the LL not assuming care and responsibility for the tools?

Fol20

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

The tenants had their own lock on the shed,the LL removed it and put their own one on it.
What makes me very suspicious is that only the tenants and the LL knew what was in the shed. It seemed a very targeted robbery when even more valuable stuff was in other sheds owned by the LL.
As you say, without proof, it's hard to point fingers. But I'd hold the LL responsible for originally refusing access to the shed to remove the stuff. By changing the lock,was the LL not assuming care and responsibility for the tools?

That’s actually a valid point. I don’t know where you would stand legally for compensation but since you couldn’t remove the stuff as the ll changed the locks, there might be something there.

Graham

Mod Note

Posts speculating at landlords identity have been deleted.

Caranica

Surely the landlord stole the property by changing the locks in the first place?

davindub

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

LL isn't known for their helpful nature and doesn't care.

The landlord illegally repossessed the property including the property of the tenant and is liable for all damages arising from that act.

The RTB should be able to deal with both matters.

okidoki987

The RTB should be able to deal with both matters.

And as usual will do bugger all to help or enforce if LL doesn't close it to tenants satisfaction.

davindub

okidoki987 wrote: »

And as usual will do bugger all to help or enforce if LL doesn't close it to tenants satisfaction.

It is generally up to the party to enforce the determination order if not complied with. But the RTB is the 1st step and most LL's will comply, any further action will result in legal fees etc and once the LL has assets, eventually they will end up paying the original order and any subsequent legal fees.

Samuel T. Cogley

FWIW agree with Davindub here, the LL became responsible for the tenants possessions when they changed the locks.

Fol20

davindub wrote: »

It is generally up to the party to enforce the determination order if not complied with. But the RTB is the 1st step and most LL's will comply, any further action will result in legal fees etc and once the LL has assets, eventually they will end up paying the original order and any subsequent legal fees.

LL will generally always comply as mentioned above while it isn’t the same if reversed

Cantona's Collars

Lengthy statement with list of goods missing given to Gardai and solicitor/RTB involved so it's a wait and see process now.